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Replacement fuse? (Read 13146 times)
Sean
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #100 - 11/24/22 at 18:51:34
 
Short update - Got the orange fuses yesterday, after five hours of idling I played some music. I know, give them time. Well, right out of the gate they blew away the Create Audio fuses. Liquidy goodness and restored the open holographic image. The creates drive me nuts after awhile, found myself adjusting speakers and cleaning the stylus over and over, the fuses just sounded like a dirty stylus, very edgy.
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will
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #101 - 11/24/22 at 19:32:58
 
Hey Sean. I had some Creates and one other that I found was probably the same fuse with another name, and they never ended up getting it for me either. Glad you feel like the Orange is going to pan out. I find the SR Oranges continue to improve here for a lot of hours, and finally are giving me a nice rich completeness harmonically and spectrally... in this setting anyway.
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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spyder1
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #102 - 02/26/23 at 04:11:57
 
Take a look at the new Synergistic Research fuse.

https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-master-fuses
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johnnycopy
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #103 - 02/26/23 at 06:10:35
 
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GroovySauce
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #104 - 02/26/23 at 14:02:54
 
I'm trying a different approach with fuses.

https://verafiaudiollc.com/products/best-audio-products/swiss-digital-fuse-box-5...
2299809

Basically you put this box which is a computer controlled fuse before your component, you then replace the main fuse in the component with a solid copper or brass slug.

Down side is that an extra power cable is required.

It's scheduled to ship this coming week. Once I get some time with it I'll report back.
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johnnycopy
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #105 - 02/26/23 at 15:46:05
 
Interesting groovysauce.

I know people who bypass their fuses and swear by the improvement.  I have not done this mod.

They also swear by not using big heavy copper binding posts, or worse yet different metal tabs between your speaker wire and the speaker coil wire ends, often wiring their speaker wire from amp directly to voice coil wires.

Of course this voids any warranties, but they claim bigger improvements in dynamics and transparency with these two mods than most anything else you can do.

Everytime I look at the big copper posts on my Lii audio references, I think about that tweak, but I have them and my overall system singing best I have heard anything in my 40 year audio journey right now so no need to bother.

Thanks for the heads up and let us know what you hear.  

Buy the new master fuse and compare it. It has a sixty day return policy!

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GroovySauce
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #106 - 02/26/23 at 16:10:43
 
Once I get a feeling for how the Swiss Digital Fuse Box works in the system, I'll consider trying the SR Master Fuse. Then in 1 year there will be a new and improved one! I have a feeling once I hear the difference with 1 I'll want more.

One thing is no matter how good fuses get at some point it's going through a very small wire. My Torus AVR 15 has a fuse. So my entire system is powered by that small wire in the fuse. With the Fuse Box there ish't the same restriction. The fuse holder then might be the smallest wire. Some fuse holders are very thin.

On the flip side. If it sounds better one way than another it really doesn't matter what the power comes from.

My phono stage doesn't have a fuse. IEC is wired directly to the transformer.

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will
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #107 - 02/26/23 at 16:54:05
 
I find it to be getting a little confusing since "magic sauces" with fuse makers are getting more and more sophisticated and great sounding. Also, some fuses can take a really long time to burn in fully so evaluating them before then may not tell the whole story. Seems SR was one of the early innovators and amazingly they keep getting quite a bit better over time, yet the thin wire fuses blow at the same basic levels. So at this point of development, compared to basic thick copper, I wonder also how concept might meet with results of sound tests.

I have never had the nerve to use a heavy piece of copper ground wire in the fuse position in my tube gear. I have blown rectifiers enough times that this would worry me. But as far as I can recall, I have never blown a DAC fuse, or CD player, or anything else solid state that I can recall. So with my Gustard DAC, I used a copper plug cut and polished from a ground wire, and it was more sonically complete in all ways as I recall than the stock Gustard fuse, or another Chinese audiophile fuse... can't recall which one, but one with a pretty good sound. Long time ago though, so can't be more clear just how much better it was.

How it would compare to a more recent SR fuse... can't say, but I was surprised how my newer Orange fuses were quite smoothly resolving, while seeming bigger sounding with more density and body than my old Reds a few generations earlier. And folks say the ones past orange are better... I guess I have just been too cheap to go for current ones, waiting for sale models to come along.

All in all though, especially if the relay opening and resetting (compared to blowing a fuse) does no damage, it would seem the Swiss Digital Switch, if silent, could be good, especially if they used really good copper.
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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bramar
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #108 - 02/27/23 at 01:23:50
 
I’ve found the lowly $2 silver/gold Aucharm to be just dandy. In fact so dandy they’re not going anywhere.

I’d rather stick with something like that than a $595 fuse. YMMV blah blah blah.

Brad
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johnnycopy
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #109 - 02/27/23 at 22:45:44
 
@groovysauce

I realized the magnetic unit programming can’t be done by the end user which makes sense for safety reason but makes it a less dynamic product to try across multiple components.

Where are you specifically targeting yours?
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will
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #110 - 03/24/23 at 19:43:24
 
JBZen brought up interesting ideas for modifying a commercial fuse to be more stable and musical in the following link.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1677858218/46#46

Not wanting to take up this much space in that interesting thread, I thought to link a response here.

I am not recommending these fuses necessarily, but they incorporate what seem like conceptually good ideas in attempts to solve some fuse issues. Pretty interesting to me that similar tech and method may be relatively common in audiophile fuses one way or another, but I found these to be good illustrations and some interesting ideas.



"Blue/Red Knight Fuse

1. Imported quartz sand

2. Nano copper powder

3.Nano graphene

4. Spiral alloy fuse wire,

5. Gold, silver and bronze caps (I guess this is a translation typo as the image says copper caps)

After special quantum processing, the sound is clean and smooth, the high frequency is well extended, the mid frequency is full, and the low frequency dive is solid and powerful."

Link to where I got this picture and text:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802700195243.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main....

Or this:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800207519112.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main....





From this page: "Nano processing fuse

The fuse is made of imported single crystal silver fuse, plus a very fine single crystal copper wire winding sound, and then nano-processing, note that the fuse is directional after nano-processing, please pay attention to the fuse direction when using. It has excellent two-end extension, transient response, dynamic and musical sense. Due to the high cost of materials, the structure needs to be artificially produced."



Or this:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803769274136.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.29...

\

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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Carlsbad
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #111 - 03/28/23 at 03:08:05
 
One thing this fuse has in sufficient quantity is buzzwords.  The marketing team put more hours into this one than the engineers.  So much BS in the writeup that I can't tell if there is a good product behind it or not.

But I do doubt it.  I don't see any value in the "imported" quartz or the "nano" copper.  bottom line is, a wire becomes a resistor, heats up, limits current, and eventually fails.  Not a good thing to have in your power circuit if you can avoid it.

Jerry
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will
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #112 - 03/28/23 at 04:38:34
 
I don't know that anyone is questioning that no fuse, done well, would in most cases, likely be the better sounding solution. I use a polished copper plug in my DAC since I have never had a fuse go in a solid state front end, so willing to risk it. And it did sound better than a standard glass fuse, more dense and complete. I never compared it to a better fuse, but I will try to remember to do that. I have blown a number of fuses over time in amps though, rectifier cathodes frying, and there I am not willing to do without some protection.

Can't say for sure on your ideas about these fuses, since as I read it, you don't explain just why you don't trust these fuses technically, except that you don't like the basic concepts and functions of fuses if they can be avoided, not really in question for me either. But I take you to imply that you suspect the technology due to your view that more energy went into the selling than the engineering... Especially with bigotry around relative to Chinese people and things, and language issues, I can forgive attempts to make them sound worth checking out and the imperfect hype.... other than what seem like translation issues, explanations not unlike a lot of American and Euro companies that have proven legit. And "buzzwords" in trying to explain something, to me, do not make the fuses bad.

I can say that Gustard is one of the more sophisticated design teams (engineers) out there for good quality and really good sounding (relatively value) DACs. One of these fuses is theirs. I modified my Gustard DAC, which brought it to another level, but stock, it was just about $800 delivered, and compared by some folks favorably (they liked the stock Gustard better) to Schitt Yggdrasil, Auralic Vega, and some others. With perhaps a few hundred more in parts, and some time, it became pretty world class to me.

So in the fuses, beyond likely "stabilizing" the good wires used, as JBZen was hoping for with quartz, as well as the wire connection to the good quality ends used (over standard fuses), I guess for now I will believe the designers in their valuing the quartz in the ceramic tube (quartz also known to pull noise from circuits), and copper powder. And graphene in some of the other fuses, is known as a very clear conductor, one I have heard in contact oil containing very fine graphene and found impressive.

For me, my "trust" will be tested by the listening. If it is real and useful tech, it will sound faster, more dense, open/spacious, fine detailed, etc. I ordered a few to try, but they will likely take a while to get here. Looking forward to the experiments though.
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JBzen
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #113 - 03/28/23 at 11:52:04
 
The links Will referenced confirmed my deductive reasoning. Although there is a bit of salesmanship there, the pictures speak to actually addressing issues that must help through inductive reasoning.

I don't think any manufacturer is going to change the inner workings of a tube fuse to the point that it will not do its job. The tube fuse has to break at it's rated capacity. The thin wire will vibrate and heat to destruction...can't change that in a tube fuse without compromising its purpose.

Electricity is mysterious or is it? Most people are fearful of things that can not be seen but can hurt them. They don't understand things that are not in plain sight such as electron flow. However it is in sight but not seen unless a desire to understand is present. What can be seen you might wonder.

Watching a thunder storm(s) on a clear night over the open plains will provide basic insight on the working of AC current stability. The storm creates different negative electron potential in the clouds and on the ground to the point there is enough difference that a discharge bolt is created as lightening. The bolt does not form a straight line but rater spreads out in a wild fashion toward the ground or up to the clouds. Back and fourth just like AC current but in the wild.

Hypothetically in the 22nd century scientists create a way to harvest this flow of electricity between the clouds and earth with a beam harboring nano copper powering our devices. By physics there would need to be a return flow to balance and control the flow...if not the beam would just burn a hole in the earth until a balance of protrons/neutrons between the ground and atmosphere is created.

Scientist have already found that running AC conductors in a parallel fashion stabilizes AC flow. This is a basic lesson in electricity as refereed to in the other thread Will has linked and can be seen here:

Two video talking about how energy flows through wire is a facinating-interesting watch. They don’t discuss audio implications. It does shine light on why power cables and other power related items can have such a powerful impact on the music in the room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0&t=561s

Watch those two links above. It will enlighten the mechanics of AC delivered today and the backlash from ill informed.

Exotic tube fuses with absorbent prices and not so can and do make a difference in the sound. Decware(Steve) has made a product that is so transparent that inserting a exotic fuse can be heard easily. Be warned though it is the whole system not just one amp that will make it easier to detect the differences that so many on the these two threads hear.

John



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Lon
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #114 - 03/28/23 at 13:15:18
 
I don't pretend to know what is what as far as fuses go. Even in things that I thought I know a lot about, research and knowledge changes and eclipses mine. . . so I'll just say that my ears have clearly told me that fuses can make a difference in my systems and that this "no fuse" device intrigues me. I have an additional matching power cable to use aso I honestly am thinking of trying this device out when my SEWE300B comes along. That requires two fuses and that makes the price less prohibitive than just replacing one stock fuse with an Audio Magic M-1 or so.

Long live the experimentation that brings us thngs such as the ZROCK2 and this device and many more.
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JBzen
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #115 - 03/28/23 at 14:34:18
 
We live in a caustic environment. Everything we make including ourselves are vulnerable to this corrosion. By adding another cable along with another device inline with AC feed to the component(s) can only be adding corrosion surfaces. This with addition wiring lenght complete an unbalanced tradeoff IMO. Remember we are replacing a fuse with a "sluggo" in the same fuse holder and adding a power cord and Swiss Fuse Box to the AC feed of the component.

This adapter might lessen the wire lenght:

https://voodoocable.net/product/in-line-iec-adapter/

All this stuff is added to replace a 3/4" inline fuse?

No doubt it is going to change the sound. For the better?

Not knocking the SFB device but seems a bit unbalanced to me and may improve/mask certain characteristics in individual systems.

I think the 4AWG slugs will work fine until the various "cheap" alternatives can be rooted thru.

Good to hear you have ordered some Will. Looking for your impressions. What ones did you order? Maybe we can collaborate. Due to commitments my ordering will be delayed a bit.

John




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JBzen
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #116 - 03/28/23 at 14:52:00
 
I think a better tradeoff to me in my system would be replacing the IEC with something like this recommended by Will:
https://www.vhaudio.com/furutech-fi-03.pdf
Then installing a good audio fuse.
John
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Lon
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #117 - 03/28/23 at 14:56:25
 
I have seen no reason in my environment to be in such fear of corrosion, and I've found that extra cabling and even components contribute to better sound more often than lesser sound. I remain interested in this method of fuse relief. There are positive reports of its use.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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JBzen
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #118 - 03/28/23 at 15:27:36
 
Not sure what is meant by the word fear in this context. The fact is we all live in a caustic environment and all connections are subject to it. In an electrical connection over time a film is being created between the two connecting surfaces. This will cause noise. The more connections the more noise. Most of the reason for many recommendations to reseat audio connections on a regular basis. Some even recommend to polish said connections. It all matters.
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Lon
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #119 - 03/28/23 at 15:32:26
 
It's not an overwhelming issue in my systems that would exclude me from making any additions. Maintaining connections is not a big deal. Your post made it seem as if fear of corrosion holds you back from adding connections.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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will
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #120 - 03/28/23 at 15:40:08
 
Folks. On this Replacement Fuse thread I wanted to connect folks with an interesting development that is in the neighborhood by protecting against power extremes into the component, but using a sort of breaker tech before "the fuse." This unit is intended to do protection similarly to fuses, but the fuse itself is replaced with a copper or bronze slug the size of a fuse...so a massive conductor comparatively. The setup is called a  Swiss Digital FUSE BOX and GroovySauce started the thread with his explorations of it in his beautifully conceived system/room.

The link: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1677858218/46#46

I wanted to explain the context of our little segue into talking about this Swiss Digital FUSE BOX in this Replacement Fuse thread. To me, GroovySauce's thread is complimentary.

JBZen,

Collaboration listening sounds fun.

The fuses I ordered to try are a 5 amp Aucharm Red Nano listed on Ebay as "Aucharm hifi fever single crystal sterling silver nano fuse Gilded cap 5x20mm" and a 3.15 amp Gustard listed there as: "GUSTARD Fuse Nano Alloy High-end Fuse". The two together were about $50. I was on another track on Ebay so ordered some there. But usually for things from China, I order from aliexpress after fun forays looking around at audio things.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I got these two fuse since my Torii uses a 5 amp, and CSP3 a 3.15. I know these components really well individually and together, and they both have Synergistic Research Orange fuses, so hopefully I will hear telling comparisons that would translate well to other gear.
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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JBzen
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #121 - 03/28/23 at 16:10:04
 
Cool Will! Looking forward to it.

I see, Lon. From my point of view it is worry of wasting resources on unneeded things when there is something within reach that can do just as good.

Best
Smiley
John
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Lon
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #122 - 03/28/23 at 16:12:47
 
What, a fuse? "Doing just as good" is in question imo. There's a world of fuses that have differing influence on the sound quality. Replace the fuse has been lauded as better by many. I'm willing to give it a shot one day. No hurry on my part.
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will
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #123 - 03/28/23 at 16:36:08
 
For contact enhancement, though I have used Deoxit Gold, and like it, I find it hard to use just so. A little thick, it starts to sound thick. For whatever reasons, Cardas contact cleaner/enhancer was easier for me for quality and ease of use. Mostly in recent years I have used Mad Scientist Graphene contact enhancer, also important to apply as directed (and not to get too thick), but I found it quite clarifying in early tests. I do try to remember to every so often use the graphene very carefully on fuse ends and IEC connections also.

Been a while, so not clear in details, but I got onto polishing connections from some folks I respect who said you can compare polished versus not, with some sort of viewing devise that can show the effects of more complete connections in comparison less-than complete ones, less complete ones sparking variations of "little lightning storms" in the connection.

As I think of it, the theory of the better contact enhancers (when properly applied) is usually cleaning the connection surfaces, but also filling the tiny gaps in the surface of the contact with "nano" particles of gold, or silver, or graphene or some blend presumably... trying to even the surface of the connections and hoping to do a similar thing connection wise as polishing.

A few years back, I actually picked up some very pure "nano" copper, silver and graphene, and a few variations of plant derived Squalane oil, alternatives to shark squalene. I guess I should have some of the original to try in comparison but thought I would start with plant derived. Just have not gotten around to experiments with a lot else happening in my life. One day.
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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JBzen
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #124 - 03/29/23 at 11:45:22
 
Life does seem to get in the way of dear pursuits.

I retired a little over three years ago from working for others. An assessment was done with priorities in mind of all parts laying around meant for projects that were not started. Those parts were disposed of to make room for realistic pursuits in the little time left on this earth. This has taught me a lesson of better time management. Now very few parts are inventoried and those parts are used in the short term.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing the contact enhancement products you tried and application technics. Very informative. I think polishing is the best but requires the right tools to access tight areas. That may be my pursuit here.

If air can't get in, then it is the unabated electron exchange that will prevail in the long run.
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
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Re: Replacement fuse?
Reply #125 - 05/07/23 at 17:36:42
 
The Audio Magic M-1 that I put into my PS Audio DSD Mk2 DAC has seasoned in and. . .man the DAC sounds great. I think the M-1 is my favorite of the fuses. I may add a few more in time. . . . Probably will put two in the SEWE300B when it arrives months from now.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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