Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
10/23/21 at 17:45:32 


       


Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 14
Send Topic Print
Steve's TINY RADIAL project! (Read 150900 times)
x2turbo
Verified Member
**




Posts: 8
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #500 - 11/16/20 at 04:17:59
 
Are there plans to sell the 3D printed lens?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #501 - 11/16/20 at 17:24:05
 


Santa's pair have just been listed!

Here is the link the eBay auction:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/224237028790
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #502 - 11/16/20 at 17:25:31
 
Yes, I will be putting some of those on the page hopefully over the holidays once the next batch arrives.

Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2403
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #503 - 11/16/20 at 18:31:51
 
Ha ha.  I just put in the first bid.  Normally I'd wait till the last seconds to bid but I want Steve the have a Merry Christmas and get a ton for these!   Cheesy
Back to top
 
 

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 580
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #504 - 11/16/20 at 21:27:30
 
Yeah Archie...I couldn’t resist either.  I had to follow suit behind you and throw out the second bid.  Let’s bid these Holiday Radials up and give Steve a Merry Christmas for all the hard work he has put into this project.  

Dom
Back to top
 
 

iMac 7, Google CCA/Raspberry Pi 4, Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, My Audio Cables [MAC] Ultra Silver+ Cables, ZSB, ZSTAGE [Beeswax Caps], DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV w/25th Ann. mods, Reg P3 Turntable, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR Radials [Bubbinga Wood].
  IP Logged
x2turbo
Verified Member
**




Posts: 8
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #505 - 11/16/20 at 23:42:24
 
Thanks Steve, I'll keep an eye open for the lenses. I'm being told by PE that the drivers will be shipped on 11/20. Fingers crossed
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #506 - 11/17/20 at 03:42:19
 
mperdue63, great picture!  That is representative of the ideal application for these speakers... exactly what they were designed for : ). Looks great!
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #507 - 11/17/20 at 03:46:39
 
Melvin,

I listened to these speakers for months before I ever heard them with a sub ; )

And you're right, tweaking around them pays off big time.  They can go from amusing, to amazing with the right amps, wire, etc., and I believe it is actually well worth it.

In the near field, with great components and wire, it is astonishing what they can actually do.

Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #508 - 11/17/20 at 03:48:21
 
Xrturbo,  That would great, I hope to see everyone get what they need, as well as myself, as I have several pair of enclosures already built waiting for drivers ; )

Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #509 - 11/17/20 at 04:01:42
 
The Bubinga pair coming soon is just about done.  I'll be installing the drivers and testing this week.  I have been waiting for more lenses.  While the wood lenses or my 3D printed lenses are nice, they require an hour to sand and paint.  The nylon lenses I am having made are laser sintered where a nylon powder is melted in layers by a laser.  These come with a prefect textured finish and are made from black nylon so no finishing.  Just take them out of the bag and glue them on.  Plus you can't break one.  They are expensive, but since they eliminated an hour of labor, they are worth it.






Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #510 - 11/17/20 at 04:14:00
 

So the last block of wood to cut up was the Bocote...



I decided this time I wanted to see how thick I could make a pair.  This idea came to me when I was editing the original Tiny Radial Video because the sound I heard on that video was slightly different that what I'm used to a Tiny Radial Sounding like.

That first prototype pair, which my wife stole from me, was basically carved out of a solid block of wood so the enclosure walls ended up being over a 1/2 inch thick on average.

I thought those speakers had more bass.  That is to say when you listen to them without a subwoofer.  And not to get sidetracked, but I have been spending a lot of time listening to that 100.00 subwoofer with the Tiny Radials and man is that combination something special.  Especially when you put on electronic or dance music and turn the sub way up... there is a place where the sound re-blends if you will, and it become dense, powerful and seamless, like you were standing in a night club.  It's just amazing how well the blend is with such thick bass.  Most speakers would thicken out and loose it with half as much bass.  These just shine and somehow take that thick heavy house shaking bass and keep it focused, tight, centered, controlled, and harmonic.  I've really never seen anything quite like it.  Nor heard for that matter.

It takes me back to when Decware was a commercial sound company in the early 1990's doing night clubs where bass was the main focus.  I made clubs that had insane amounts of bass.  Enough that you felt it in your pants and chest when you drove by on the street outside.  With a dance floor made up of a circular array of say 768 of these 1.5 inch Tiny Radial drivers I would have been able to more the double the bass.

So where was I....

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #511 - 11/17/20 at 04:21:02
 



So here is the block cut into 8 equal panels... each pushing 3/4 inch before getting machined flat.  This is going to stress the system, but I think it can do it fine.

The router operations are just going to take 3 Times as long since it has to be set so deep (high).

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #512 - 11/17/20 at 04:24:56
 



These are over twice as thick as normal.

As expected, the system worked, but it just took 3 times longer than a 5/16 panel thickness.  That's OK, if there is a gain to be had... we shall see.  

Smiley



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #513 - 11/17/20 at 04:27:39
 

 

So that's a trip... they are so thick that the corner posts disappear inside the walls!!!

Yup, they're feeling pretty heavy.  Bocote is heavy to begin with, and this feeling great.  It's not as heavy as Bloodwood, but I'm mad at Bloodwood right now.



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #514 - 11/17/20 at 04:32:18
 

 

Here you can really grasp how thick they are.  Interestingly...  within 24 hours of this picture, this very view became full of cracks in the end grains of each panel, I would say around 80, 20 per panel. Once again, the super thin super glue poured into the end grain drops down into those cracks literally to the top of the speaker where it drips out the other end.

So yea, I had to save these with super glue, which had I really grasped what was possible with it during the Burl nightmares, well I am sure it would have been more than helpful.



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #515 - 11/17/20 at 04:41:33
 



Those square red oak dowels go all the way through the speaker.  These are what the plinth is glued ( or screwed) to.  

My guess is that these will either sound like crap or better than ever.  Can't wait to find out.






Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #516 - 11/17/20 at 04:47:46
 

 

I am not going to put the plinth on yet...  two reasons:

1) I have solid steel plinths on order like the one Donnie showed us awhile back.  I was as a result inspired to have some made. They will weigh many times the almost weightless wood one by comparison.  All Tiny Radials, but especially this one, well let's just say I can't wait to hear what it will do.

2) This is so heavy it doesn't even need a plinth, and it possibly might sound better without one at all, so some testing over the next few weeks.




Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #517 - 11/17/20 at 05:07:50
 



Here is what they look like without the plinths and right now they are playing with the hard wood corner posts just acting as feet.

While the thickness of the wood is the obvious factor, having no plinth with this kind of density may actually be more appropriate.  We will see.

I can tell you after listening to 50 pair from this same exact spot these are noticeably better in every category.  My sub is temporarily un connected while some repairs to furnace are being done here in the shop so I couldn't listen to it with a sub if I wanted to.  

As always I am listening to electronic music to move that woofer for a fast break-in and man it's really nice sounding. Frankly when this project started I thought, "yea, nice novelty speaker that doesn't actually suck...
" but now we have gone safely beyond that.

These speakers with zero break-in sound noticeably improved, so knowing me, things will migrate in this direction. Talk has already taken place about carving one from a solid block of wood using a CNC router, which would end up being the same max thickness as this one I made.

Of course, unless I buy a CNC router myself there is no guarantee anything will come of it, and I can already say that probably buying a shaper  or two to replace the routers would be far more effective and save God knows how many hours of dicking around with a CNC machine. My laser cutter was enough for me... a lesson in how to make a 2K eBay special cost more than an 8K American one.

These sound so refined I'd be willing to bet the difference might be able to be measured.  I might do that when the steel plinths arrive... measure the stock Tiny Radial with the wood plinth vs the steel plinth and so on.

One thing I noticed, on a normal Tiny Radial paired with a 2 watt Zen Triode amplifier, turned to clipping (usually 3/4 volume) the speakers will dance on the table they are setting on.  And the cone excursion is at least 1/8 inch.  On this pair, I can't make them move, and the speaker cone only moves half as far and I can turn the amp up louder.  Probably at least 1.5 to 2 dB louder.  A more powerful amp I can see easily 3 dB which is to say the density of the enclosure has literally doubled the power handling.

Sorry it's a sickness... I always get sucked into finding out what the window boundaries are (how thick vs. how thin for example) and continually jack with it until it can't get any better without becoming something else.  So in the case of Tiny Radials two ideal peaks have emerged... one for the best thickness for manufacturing and one for best sound quality that takes three times longer.  

The thing is that before this experiment is over I wouldn't be surprised to find that the 5/16 thickness panels which the vast majority of Tiny Radials have been built to lend themselves to heavy bass settings on a subwoofer which is to say if you are going to be using a subwoofer it's possible that the standard 5/16" thickness may blend better with the sub than these thicker versions.

But as a stand alone speaker, with no bass augmentation of any kind, clearly this is the top edge of that window where the best sound can be had.  Interesting, since this thicker version will add somewhere between 100 and 200 dollars American to the price, and the subwoofer is only 100 dollars American, which would sound better, the sub with 5/16 Tiny Radials or a pair of super heavy Tiny Radials without a sub....

That's a question that for the majority I already know the answer to. : )








Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 1946
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #518 - 11/17/20 at 22:46:52
 
Well heck Steve, there was no reason for you to have a steel plinth made, I'll give you the ones I have made.

I'd even deliver them. It would give me a reason to see my friend in Morton!
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #519 - 11/18/20 at 02:25:04
 
Donnie, you're welcome to visit any time.  I didn't have a pair made, I had a lot made.  Already know it's going to work well, so I want to be able to put them into production. : )

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Nick324
Senior Member
***




Posts: 51
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #520 - 11/18/20 at 21:52:54
 
Honestly Steve these are great desktop speakers. My own are one of the slightly thicker Prototype pairs you made early on, not as thick as these but fairly thick by what you wrote about them. I have plenty of choices to pick from for my desk and these are my preference for about 80% of my listening. I mix up the amps and DACs but the speakers are pretty steady at this point. I think with a few more modifications you really will have a small speaker that hits well above its “weight class”. Great job and keep the ideas flowing!
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Zenith MKIII, CSP2,Vinnie Rossi L2iSE, SE341.5, TabooMK4, EC Studio B, Sugden FPA-4,LM 216 & 218IA mini,PASS HPA-1,BP SEI, LM-32, Lampi Amber3 SE, Exogal Comet+& ION, Heresy, K-horn, WF34 & RP600, Ωmega Super 6 Alnico, LSIM703, Falcon LS3/5A, TR’s
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #521 - 11/20/20 at 03:16:44
 
Thanks Nick,

Are you using a sub with them?

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Nick324
Senior Member
***




Posts: 51
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #522 - 11/20/20 at 10:24:27
 
Yes i have them dialed in w/ a subwoofer. It’s not an expensive one either and they work just fine with it for most of my listening pleasure. On the days where for whatever reason my mood hits for more volume or just music that requires bigger speakers i have alternates that sit next to them and i simply swap taps and the amp. They are such a great compliment to my overall desk set-up and enjoyment though that they have taken the primary spot and i just went ahead and built myself a nearfield  room for the rest of the equipment and speakers i used to have in my office.
Back to top
 
 

Innuos Zenith MKIII, CSP2,Vinnie Rossi L2iSE, SE341.5, TabooMK4, EC Studio B, Sugden FPA-4,LM 216 & 218IA mini,PASS HPA-1,BP SEI, LM-32, Lampi Amber3 SE, Exogal Comet+& ION, Heresy, K-horn, WF34 & RP600, Ωmega Super 6 Alnico, LSIM703, Falcon LS3/5A, TR’s
  IP Logged
deucekazoo
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 445
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #523 - 11/20/20 at 20:36:38
 
Steve, question on the dimensions. With the thicker wood, the outside stays the same size and the inside gets smaller? Does the inside need a certain volume? From your picture with the driver it seems the outside is the same size on all thickness of wood, is that correct?
Thanks,
John
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #524 - 11/21/20 at 23:21:58
 
Yes, the outside dimension never changes.   With the one I did, the area left is apron the area of the passive.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
x2turbo
Verified Member
**




Posts: 8
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #525 - 11/22/20 at 04:47:14
 
Could you achieve some of the same results by filling the void in the cabinet with lead shot?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #526 - 11/22/20 at 05:29:29
 
Sure, if you glued the shot to the inside walls that would work well.  You can't actually fill it, because there is a passive radiator inside that lives 2 inches below the driver and 4 inches above the bottom.



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
x2turbo
Verified Member
**




Posts: 8
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #527 - 11/22/20 at 06:11:54
 
I forgot about the passive radiator. I finally get my hands on a pair this Wednesday. I have Bubinga, Padauk and Canarywood on the way as well. I'm going to build each of the kids a pair for xmas.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
SteveLuck
Verified Member
**




Posts: 15
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #528 - 11/25/20 at 08:25:20
 
Been keeping my fingers crossed for parts express to come through and it looks like my order has finally left the US and is on it's way down under to NZ.  Two pairs of Tiny Radials to build, one for my sister and one for me.  

Also building DML panels for my nephews bedroom.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIye4RZ-5k

Hard to believe they work at all let alone sound quite good on 5mm foam board.  Waiting for 30mm EXPs insulation to arrive at local DIY store. 5mm foam board gets a bit of a vibe on that should go when the thicker panel is used.  Not high end Audio but not a bad starting point for a teenager.

Have fun and happy building to all those working from Steve's plans now their PE orders have been dispatched.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #529 - 11/26/20 at 05:18:53
 

I am also still waiting for drivers and the lens order was delayed due to QC issues so I am also waiting for those... meanwhile  

Today, while going through my scrap wood shelf I found some Wenge panels I started once and abandoned because the Wenge didn't like the pattern router.  Now I also have jigs for the table saw so I can cut the panels with no splintering, so I did.

They went together without any issues.  I'll see how they look tomorrow.



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #530 - 11/29/20 at 00:31:14
 
UPDATE on the Super Heavies

I weighed a Bubbinga Tiny Radial as a reference at it came out to 589 grams (1.3 lbs)

I weighed the extra thick Bocote at 884 (1.95 lbs)

Then I replaced the wood plinth with a solid steel plinth like the one Donnie posted a while back.  It alone weighs 498 grams (1.1 lbs).

So the total weight of the Super Heavy came to 1383 Grams (3.05 lbs.).  :)    

...it's an ass kicker too!
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 1946
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #531 - 11/29/20 at 01:57:22
 
Sounds like a "Heavy Metal" speaker if there ever was one.
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Bottlehead
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 394
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #532 - 11/29/20 at 04:50:26
 
Also sounds like a good reason to pick up a second pair!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #533 - 11/29/20 at 19:18:20
 
I have 73 people on the wish list, most waiting for their first pair!  Suffice it to say I'm looking at ways to deal with that.

Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Brian
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 784
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #534 - 11/30/20 at 05:38:30
 
Has the three layer Pagoda roof become a part of the Tiny Radial speaker line?

Brian
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #535 - 12/04/20 at 21:27:44
 
Hi Brian,

The short answer is not yet.  However I will be adding the 3D lenses to the page over the holidays so that people can purchase them separately.

My long term plan is to have 3 sizes of lens so that the stack remains tapered.

Sadly what relaxation time I usually spend making Tiny Radials was lost because I was 6 days with the flu and got absolutely nothing done anywhere, so of course now I am behind on everything.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
DPC
Seasoned Member
****


It's
"CAFB"

Posts: 281
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #536 - 12/04/20 at 21:49:52
 
Bummer!  Sorry to hear about the flu, but, you should take some comfort knowing of all the pleasure your products have brought to our homes.
Back to top
 
 

CXN - CSP - ZROCK - SE34 - RL3
OR
Mac mini - PS Audio DAC - CSP - ZROCK - SE34 - RL3
OR
A/V: Roku - Sony 65" XBR - SE84C+ - Tube Tot's
  IP Logged
SteveLuck
Verified Member
**




Posts: 15
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #537 - 12/05/20 at 00:29:18
 
Drivers arrived this week from Parts Express- just need to take some brave pills now and measure three times before cutting the expensive Walnut once.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Brian
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 784
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #538 - 12/05/20 at 03:36:09
 
Hi Steve,
I am sorry about the flu taking away your leisure time.
I am glad to learn that the lens stack is going to be a part of the future of these speakers. I thought it was one of the more fascinating introductions you have brought to us.
In my imagination I have added it to a full size speaker using a 1.4 inch compression driver aimed upward.  The way you describe the lens, I think it would make unnecessary the adding of a tweeter to one of these mid-drivers.  I find that exciting.

Brian
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Duncan Taylor
Verified Member
**




Posts: 5
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #539 - 12/06/20 at 05:16:22
 
Wanted to add my observations after a couple of days with my new Tiny Radials.

I work as a testing technician at The Music Room, and test and listen to lots of hifi gear every week. I received the speakers on Thursday and immediately began burning them in with bass-heavy music. I was also burning in a new set of speaker cables I made for them after reading Steve's experiences with different cabling and the TRs. I had made a set of 40mm copper foil ribbon cables and decided not to group them together but let the positive and negative leads fall where they may.

The first night was not too impressive! Both elements needed to break in properly, the speakers perhaps a bit more than the cables.

By the next day, they were starting to open up, and I listened to the TRs on a variety of amplifiers, including a Willsenton R8 tube amp, an Inspire tube amp by Dennis Hadd, a Pass Labs amplifier, a pair of PS Audio class D (A input stage) amps, etc.

What I noticed was that the speakers really like tubes and linear amplifiers, and aren't the biggest fans of class D, although the 3D imaging was still interesting if not impressive with those class D amps. I noticed that on my desk, I liked the frequency balance of the TRs best when they were just forward of my elbows on the desk, i.e. quite close to my ears. The soundstage was very impressive, floating high above the speakers and quite spherical in shape.

Where things really got interesting was when I turned on my main desktop speakers as well as the TRs, driven from the same class D amplifier, and spaced the TRs very wide, so they would not confuse the direct sound coming from the main speakers, but add to the dimensionality of the soundstage. My main speakers are very good, and set up well to cast a great center image and decently wide stage, but with the TRs in place it was.... other worldly. The largest soundstage I've ever heard in my life, with huge separation between images, cement-lock of images in space and still a very lifelike and focused center image.

To anyone adding these to your desk who may also have other speakers in the mix, I urge you to give this a try!

Later in the evening I went over to my engineer friend Darren's house (he's a hifi product designer), and we listened for a couple hours to his analog system. He's got a very nice VPI table, and he put his 4th or 5th best cartridge on it (the Lyras live on his Kuzma table in the other room) and it went balanced into an Audio Research PH5, balanced into a PS Audio BHK preamp and then to a PS Audio BHK amplifier. Giant Dunlavy SCIVa speakers finish the system. Suffice it to say, this system can vividly reproduce vinyl, even though the cart (and the arm) left some to be desired in his opinion (I'm a digital guy - my mouth was hanging open no matter what was on the table!)

At the end of the listening session I pulled out my Mini Torii and the Tiny Radials and set them on the floor, and we got down on the carpet and fed the amp a signal from the upcoming PS Audio TSS DAC (his is a two chassis prototype - finished product will be in the ~$25K range) via the BHK preamp with NOS tubes.

Despite getting our asses kicked for hours on his main system featuring 6.5-foot tall floorstanders, he and I were spellbound and dumbfounded by what the Mini Torii was able to do with the TRs. We had to be careful with the input volume because that Mini Torii was struggling a little to power the TRs well, but we just sat there for another hour or two listening to track after track and "bathing" in the 3D sound.

We tried one other amplifier with them - another Class D thing with a Bluetooth connection - and it was very unpleasant compared to the Mini Torii fed by that amazing source gear. The high frequency information was largely gone, the sound collapsed down to the individual speakers, and we both groaned and moved the tube amp back into position after maybe a song and a half? Maybe less.

Ultimately, this is what I came away with. When powered by a very linear, well designed tube amplifier, using excellent cables, these Tiny Radials are impressive enough to be almost a distraction on the workplace desktop. They're just about too good for words, doing things you can't hear anywhere else but in the close up zone of their omni radiation. At a distance, and from a lower height, I could see they would benefit from added high frequency radiation via extra lenses. But bottom line, they don't respond well to class D amplification, or cheap amplification in general.

Unless. Unless you're adding them as part of basically a 4.1 channel stereo system where they add soundstage width and texture detail to a pair of speakers that fares better on lesser amplification, like my desktop monitors. I'm still scratching my head about why they're so much more revealing of amplification than my desk speakers, which admittedly have external crossovers stuffed with excellent, expensive parts. But the valley of quality between a fine tube amp and a cheap class D is much smaller on my desktop monitors than the giant chasm that exists for the Tiny Radials between amplifiers.

My friend Darren was so enthralled by what he was hearing with the Mini Torii and the TRs with my ribbon cables that I had to leave them at his house this weekend so he could geek out some more.

Steve, you've made yet another head scratchingly other worldly product, and my hat's off to you for keeping this audio hobby interesting and exploring new ideas. They also look superb, and match the walnut of my Mini Torii well. Thank you!!
Back to top
 

IMG_1725_001.jpg

Systems: Roon>PS Audio DSJ>heavily modified Audio Research D-115 Mk 2>Dunlavy SCIII>REL T/9i (2) // Raspberry Pi>PS Audio Jewel DAC>Constellation Centaur>DIY standmounts
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #540 - 12/06/20 at 22:54:33
 



This is the Bocote Super Thick, Super Heavy with the steel plinth.

This is so far the best sounding pair I've ever made.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 1946
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #541 - 12/06/20 at 23:13:10
 
So nice!
Steve, you got the skills to pay the bills!
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #542 - 12/07/20 at 01:20:02
 
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #543 - 12/07/20 at 02:20:04
 


The steel plinth... turns any Tiny Radial into a Super Heavy.

Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #544 - 12/07/20 at 02:24:54
 
Duncan,  Thanks for the great review!  While I don't have a lot a bad sounding amplifiers to try, I have already experienced enough of the Tiny Radial's unforgiving nature to know you are right about the amplifiers.  When you hook Tiny Radials to toy amps with cheap cables, they sound like toys. When you take them seriously they get serious.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
SteveLuck
Verified Member
**




Posts: 15
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #545 - 12/26/20 at 07:13:26
 
Finally got time to start my build - been gathering tools and materials for months but the delay on the tangbands held things up a lot.  Fueled on Turkey and Xmas pudding I made very good progress today.  I had a very small mitre lock router bit too small to use it the way Steve has with the dowel in the corner but perfect used as intended to create the mitres in the corners - fingers crossed the corners will look good when I start sanding.  I've chosen some 30mm beach block-board offcuts for bases and tapered it to match the main body.  Should give it some weight in the base and stop them toppling over in a modest shake here NZ.  Havea for the lenses.  Bottoms of the lenses ripped up when I cut the bevels on them - too close to the centre hole - but I'd made them from 18mm  so no problem sanding them back to the thickness on the original plans (about 12mm).  More tomorrow.
Back to top
 

IMG_0758_001.JPG
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #546 - 12/26/20 at 16:46:22
 

Congrats!  They look great so far!
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
SteveLuck
Verified Member
**




Posts: 15
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #547 - 12/29/20 at 09:18:40
 
Very pleased with how these turned out, two identical pairs completed.  I made a lot of work for myself using surplus stainless standoffs and cap head screws to secure the base and driver.  I used a hard wax (Osmo Poly X high build hard) for the first time.  Several coats have given a very smooth but satin finish.

I'm giving one pair to my sister with a very simple cheap chinese 1969 John-Linsey Hood designed Class A amp chosen because it's relatively child friendly.  Crazy that they could design sweet sounding transistor amps back in 1969 yet only a decade later most mainstream transistor amps in the shops sounded terrible.  I bought my first valve amp to celebrate my 21st birthday a long time ago!!!.

I bought anti cables to give away with them, that was a mistake they sound great but if there was much more spring in them the cables would lift the speakers off the table.  They'll need bending into shape to prevent that when installed.

This little combination I'm testing (before giving away) is warm, fast and gets your toes tapping niceley.  Non fatiguing - will be a long listening session tonight.  Cheers Steve for putting the plans up, bit of challenge but well worth the effort.

Back to top
 

IMG_0771.JPG
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5202
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #548 - 01/14/21 at 02:58:18
 

UPDATE:

Didn't know when I started the Tiny Radial Project that our amplifier business would explode to somewhere between 5 and 7 times normal due to Covid and a series of reviews on our amplifiers. I also had no idea that the demand for Tiny Radials would be so high and stay that way for so long!

So while waiting for my next batch of drivers to arrive I have been looking at ways to make a Tiny Radial faster so we can add them to the page faster.  

I gave up on 3D printing the enclosure because normal 3D printing leaves a texture and the plastics don't really machine well.  Takes 8 hours to print one, and then probably another hour of sanding putty finishing per unit. And after all that they don't weight enough and sound like crap. Resin 3D printing can be done with no texture but takes even longer and the resin cost is absurd for this application where you want it solid. If you have it printed for you by any one of the zillion 3D printing services the cost is way higher. Fail on both counts.

I've been thinking about trying to cast one for a long time, but that involves making molds.  Ugh.  

My first attempt was to cast a single panel from a hi-density white resin because that was about as simple a mould as I could think to make so I might be able to handle it. The mold turned out usable, and behold... a solid white resin panel in less than 30 minutes.  Just need 7 more, so I made 3. I glued the panels together just as I do the wood ones and concluded that by the time I put the wood sticks inside, and did all the assembly I can actually make them out of wood quite a lot faster.

This leaves the dreaded and inevitable one-piece casting from a single mould. I'm still working on that, but I'm getting usable results that can be tested. I made the inside round instead of square so I could pull the tapered Tiny Radial out of the mould.

Anyway that was a major improvement. I can see it working when I get it all fine tuned over time. I found a particular resin in my trials that is so dead I think it beats concrete.  That got me excited, as a speaker enclosure geek I have never seen anything this dead for the mass. And I think I could make these in less time offering both these and wood ones in the future.

Here is a video I made of the sound of each enclosure.



https://decware.wistia.com/medias/idua8pcszw

Just would hate for anyone to think we're sleeping on the job around here! ; )

Steve

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2403
Re: Steve's TINY RADIAL project!
Reply #549 - 01/14/21 at 06:44:53
 
Steve, ever consider boring out a block of wood?
Back to top
 
 

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 14
Send Topic Print