Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/29/24 at 16:36:45 




Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet! (Read 24356 times)
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
01/16/20 at 18:42:34
 
So, while the Chicagoland Decware Appreciation Society (CDApS) completely failed their first 2020 meet (they are lost without me I guess), I managed to pull together an impromptu Colorado Decware Appreciation Society (CDApS) meet since this character messaged me saying he was jonesing for some Decware listening.

Enter Lightfoot Dan


He brought some....questionable libations, but being a fine host, I didn't give him too much grief.  :)



My house is still under some renovation, so I really haven't had time to setup anything...but since I had just put new flooring in the future Living Room/Home Theater/ Listening room, I figured I'd slap something together for Dan. With only 90 minutes before his arrival, I literally ran a 100' network cable across the house, grabbed one of my custom built mini-PCs out of a yet-to-be-unpacked box, grabbed two DACs, two pair of Speakers, and my Modified Zen Amp and original Mystery Amp and got to work!

The Roon, Networking setup took the longest, but I finally got it going only minutes before Dan was dropped off by his brother. I had the mini-PC connected to the TEAC NT-503 via USB directly, then over wired network back to my Direct Stream DAC into it's Bridge II. In Roon I could play both rooms simultaneously, or independently through software.

Setup #1
I really hate having a TV between the speakers, but as I said, this was thrown together, and I had setup the girlfriends TV to keep her happy, just the night before.



System sounded good...till I tried to push the Zen amp. It just ran out of steam way too early and distorted on dynamic passages. I really think I need to retube already.  Not the best showing for Dan, but he was pleased. I've since ordered some new output tubes, and I have a plethora of input tubes to swap in. Granted, the room is 26' long and 11.5' wide, with an 8' to 14' vaulted ceiling and no room treatment...so it's probably not enough amp for the space. I'll know more once I get some new tubes in from the Ukraine.

Second system was sorta setup already. With the rest of the house being torn apart and slowly fixed up, I've pretty much been living out of the Dining Room. I cobbled a surround sound system, painted a wall white, setup the projector and a couple chairs. Add in the PS Audio Direct Stream, Mystery Amp, and El Camino speakers and we're set!



This system sounded unbelievable. Keep in mind, this a small dining room with ceramic tile over concrete slab, opens up to the kitchen in back. I wasn't expecting much...but something about this space just sings!



The El Camino speakers coupled with the corners so well, the bass was HUGE and deep. I played some tracks off Sneaker Pimps Becoming X, and it just filled the room with tight, punchy bass. Then I went on to my usual tracks with Alt-J's  An Awesome Wave, and I just said WOW. The reverb in the room matched the reverb in the recording so well, that the reverb on the album seemed to wrap around us organically...much like I'd expect with many, many diffusers. Normally in a room with this many hard reflective surfaces it would turn into an echoy incoherent mess of slapback reverb and comb filtering...but somehow in this little room it worked! And this was like zero setup...no toe in, measurements, nothing. Just plug and play. Dan made lots of happy sounds and we enjoyed several tracks this way.



Overall it was a great night! I'm glad I got to spend time with my friend Dan, talking sound theory, Decware, and even making some tentative plans for Decfest 2020.

A very successful first CDApS meet, and great start to the new year! All had for 90 minutes of work, and a few PBRs.   Wink

If we happen to have any other Decware fans in the Denver area, please hit me up! I'm happy to to go to, or host any listening sessions!





Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1084
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #1 - 01/16/20 at 19:59:56
 
LR,

I think the secret to the exceptional sound was due to a combination of cleaning supplies in the rear corner and Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. Kidding aside, glad you and Dan could get together for a listening session. Sounds like that dining room could be just the ticket for your ZMA set up.

Good luck with your additional renovations my friend.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables
  IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 2190
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #2 - 01/16/20 at 22:00:27
 
That is one spiffy looking hunk of maple under system one's electronics!
It kinda looks like a tree that used to be next to my Mom's shed.
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #3 - 01/16/20 at 22:04:54
 
Quote:
That is one spiffy looking hunk of maple under system one's electronics!
It kinda looks like a tree that used to be next to my Mom's shed.


It's quite a nice piece of wood! I wish I had more honestly.

I'm glad some silly guy gave it to me, I cherish it.
Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
dank
Seasoned Member
****


pair of dual 18
Imperials

Posts: 418
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #4 - 01/16/20 at 23:05:35
 
LR

You seem to either not mention or, worse yet, not benefited from Lightfoot's other talent.  When he visited us, not only was the music great but the food was spectacular.  And, he enjoys teaching the tricks of the trade to others (I.E. wives, girlfriends, etc).  By careful planning of compliments ("well, its really good, but not quite as good as ...") I've been able to enjoy numerous versions of the great meal he prepared for us.

He was still drinking that PBR stuff... maybe there's something to it?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #5 - 01/16/20 at 23:52:31
 

Oh yeah, he invited me out to visit him and kept temping me with "I'll cook for you! I'll cook for you!".

Just thinking about the meals he's made at Decfest makes me salivate. I can only imagine what he could do in his own kitchen!

I'm still getting over a nasty cold, and I told him "sure I'll have you over, but I'll probably kick you out after an hour...I just got home from work" bla bla bla. Yeah, almost 3 hours later I'm like dude...we need to eat and go to bed, I have work in the morning! I really didn't want him to go, but, this whole eat, sleep, work thing.



Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #6 - 01/21/20 at 22:13:27
 
While the January CDApS meeting was a complete fail, February 9th will be a huge meet for us.  

Your replacement, ProggRob will be back in the fold and we'll have a couple of Amps to listen to, a couple DACs and my latest attempts at open baffles.  

I dare say our beverages will be a step up from PBR, but Dan certainly makes them look tasty in those pictures!

P.S. did you ever try my headrest for your IKEA chair that I made you??
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #7 - 01/23/20 at 20:15:33
 

Oh yes! Thank you for the headrest! It's way better than the ugly, over-complicated one I made and tossed out! I have 3 different Ikea chairs now, so it gets swapped around a bit.

So, is ProggRob going to be voted in as President without his knowledge?  It's kind of tradition I think.

Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #8 - 01/23/20 at 20:22:38
 
For years I have toiled under your harsh rule. As a result, there has been a coupe d'etat and I have assumed complete control.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #9 - 01/24/20 at 00:20:45
 
Quote:
For years I have toiled under your harsh rule. As a result, there has been a coupe d'etat and I have assumed complete control.


Yes, I understand that's much easier when the unwitting President is 1000+ miles away.

Congrats on your success, long live El Presidente !
Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 2190
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #10 - 01/24/20 at 00:32:30
 
All hail El Presadente Dos!
Burrito supreme pork favor.
My spanish is as weak as my understanding of animal husbandry.
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #11 - 01/24/20 at 14:07:12
 
All joking aside, I wish you were still around to evaluate these new speakers.

Donnie, you are always invited to make the 3 hour drive.   January 9 at 1:00.  We’ll be evaluating my speakers, a couple DACs and Robs new amp. Come early, parking is limited.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #12 - 02/10/20 at 15:24:27
 
Aaron, Mary and I had our February CDApS meeting.  Did we have Dan?  No.  PBR?  No.  El Presidente? No.  Despite the odds being stacked against us, we still had a successful meet.

Basically, our unstated goals were to evaluate my latest OBs and hear Aaron's multibit Gungnir.

We started out with a baseline of the Big Betsy's with my Chord Dac.  I have been listening to that DAC over my TEAC as of late.  More of a change of pace but its also a little more musical.

Then we switched over to the Gungnir.  the path was Mac mini --> Gungnir ---> zibit --> 25th.  It was pretty easy to hear the additional dimensionality, detail and excellent cymbal reproduction with the Gungnir.  A nice dac for sure.  I had recently mearsured and positioned the Big Betsy's so they sounded and imaged very well.  

I left Aason and Mary alone so they could run though their Tidal playlist and form a good opinion.  They have a very similar chain at home.

After some time, we switched in the Crystal 10 OBs with the Acoustic Elagance 15" bass drivers.  Initial listening was not that great.  I forgot to set the bias to the appropriate setting.  On the more aggressive setting, they can be bit etched.  

After some more listening, I asked their opinion but I believe they both felt the same.  They appreciated the full range of the Crystal 10s, but found the Big Betsy's to be easier to listen to.  I have to agree, but I still spend most of my time with the Crystal 10 baffles.  I really like having both speakers so I can switch them in and out.

Our respective playlists:

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/5f688d9c-9765-483e-a7f3-14368ec9f94d

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/df55402a-12f4-45b6-b999-9a3db274c160

Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Geno
Seasoned Member
****


Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 1988
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #13 - 02/10/20 at 19:04:10
 
Pal,

It's cool that you have a group to listen with to help in evaluations and opinions. I'm jealous, and would love to be part of that. I have a few friends that are music lovers, but do not know anyone interested in audiophile matters. I really enjoy the summaries of yalls get togethers. Keep em coming.
Back to top
 
 

(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #14 - 02/10/20 at 19:15:41
 
Thanks Geno.  

Does your 25th have the bias setting?  Do you run it in forward or back position with the C10s?  Also wondering about you speaker output setting - high or low?
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Geno
Seasoned Member
****


Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 1988
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #15 - 02/10/20 at 19:43:02
 
Pal, I have an older SE84UFO that i recently had the 25th mods done to. I don't remember which direction the bias switch is set, but it is set in the slightly louder position. It is set like that regardless of what speaker i use. The Hi/Lo switches in back never have had any effect. I've never heard any difference between the two settings.
Back to top
 
 

(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #16 - 02/10/20 at 19:58:46
 
Thanks

I run the Big Betsy in the forward position and the C10 in the back position.  i could be imagining it but it seems to help the detail in the Big Betsy and smooth out the edge in the C10.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Geno
Seasoned Member
****


Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 1988
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #17 - 02/10/20 at 20:42:02
 
To tell you the truth, I decided quite a while back that I liked the louder selection, and have not changed it since. I have the Betsy's back in now, and will experiment with that. And I'll do the same when I put the Crystals back in.

Thank you,

Geno
Back to top
 
 

(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #18 - 02/11/20 at 15:56:22
 

Pics or it didn't happen!!


Sounds like a good meet. And thanks for the playlists!

Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #19 - 02/11/20 at 16:02:18
 
I think Aaron took one picture of my room.  We didn't have the photogenic Dan.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #20 - 02/11/20 at 16:43:25
 
I only took a few.
Back to top
 

IMG_2193s.jpg

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #21 - 02/11/20 at 16:49:08
 
Love the wide angle!
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #22 - 02/11/20 at 16:53:06
 
The initial setup.
Back to top
 

IMG_2195s.jpg

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #23 - 02/11/20 at 18:43:58
 
A couple of comments on the photos:

1. The subs shown were not used.  I have the option of running them with a crown amp (not pictured).  I did use the Crown amp to run the woofers in the Crystal 10 OBs.

2.  The USB implementation on the Chord DAC is not well regarded, so I use the SDIF shown.  When we switch DACs, we ran balanced out to the Zbit.

3.  The funky ICs are VH Audio Silver recipe.  I haven't bothered to put the tech flex on.  So what you are seeing is teflon tape wrapped around them.  The RCAs are terminated with knockoff Silver Eichmans and the XLR are Furutech Rhodium.

4.  The Mac Mini runs off a separate linear power supply (not shown).

5.  Input tube on the 25th is 5670W with the adapter.  Power tubes are from Steve.  Rectifier is Aqua.  Front VR tube is OD3W.  I forget what the back ones are.  Sylvania, I think.

Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Bottlehead
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 524
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #24 - 02/12/20 at 03:56:08
 
Hey Pal,

I can't tell from the pictures if that's a dropped ceiling with replaceable panels, or if those are acoustic tiles glued in place. I have always wondered if strategically removing certain panels from a dropped ceiling could break up the sound waves reflecting off the ceiling. Any experience with that?

Randy
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #25 - 02/12/20 at 12:09:35
 
They can be removed.  I’ve replaced two of them with insulation based absorber panels at first reflection points.

I haven’t removed any yet to see what that does.  Unfortunately this room is right next to a store room with the furnace in it.  Before the meet I ran the heat up high and then shut it off to keep the noise floor low. There’s lots I can do to sound proof the room but I think opening up the panels would allow more furnace noise in.

I have one of those tascam recorders and if I can figure out how to do it, I’ll post some sound files of each speaker.

I listened to Steve’s and then to mine and you can really hear room differences.  I think the biggest difference is the thick carpet Steve has.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Bottlehead
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 524
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #26 - 02/13/20 at 04:43:37
 
I did see that Steve had added a thick rug in front of his listening position, so I'll probably give that a shot at some point.

I've been thinking about ceiling heights, and what can be done with them after watching the Acoustic Fields videos that were posted here. It does seem like that's the weakest point in most peoples' listening rooms, because there's really not much that can be done about it at any reasonable cost. It definitely has been a problem in my rooms in the past, and unless I build something from scratch, I'm guessing that my next place will have the same problem.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #27 - 02/13/20 at 05:37:05
 
Thanks Tom for an excellent meet. We both really enjoyed ourselves and got a lot out of it. I think the room is the best it has ever been and you’ve done a great job with both pairs of speakers.
Back to top
 
 

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
JBzen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1344
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #28 - 02/13/20 at 14:54:09
 
Pal,

I noticed in your room picture what looks to be corner bass asorbers. Looks like an implementation right out of the acoustics handbook. What is your opiinion on effectiveness?

Thanks

John
Back to top
 
 

AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #29 - 02/13/20 at 15:50:55
 
It's been years since I put them in, and I was running boxed speakers at the time, but these combined with the other absorbers I built helped to tame the bass a little and reduce echos in the room.

After I put them in, Lonely Raven convinced me that the room was that diffusers were the way to go.  So I built/bought/borrowed some and took all the panel absorbers and leaned them in the back two corners of the room, stacked to form two 2'X4' bass traps which are 4-5 2" panels deep (so about 10").  I left the upper corner bass traps in place.

They are simply triangle wood shelves with 2" Roxul Insulation cut into triangles stacked on top of each other.  I made the covers out of a wooden frame covered with burlap with Velcro mounting strips.

As a result of hearing Steve's Big Betsy recordings and comparing to my own, I felt the room could use a little more absorption so I put in a thick rug.  

It helped a little, but I find myself thinking I need more of a combo of diffusers and absorbers.  Granted, our rooms are completely different size and ceiling-wise and Steve likely has a better recorder, but I though the room sounded too lively in comparison to his.

If I ever get it together, I will post recordings of the Betsys and the Crystal 10s.  I'll use the same songs as Steve so you can hear the difference in room/wood/drivers.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #30 - 02/13/20 at 15:54:28
 
I appreciate you guys coming over BW.  It always helps a ton to have other opinions.  You guys have set me off on a whole new avenue of experimentation.

We need to get ProgRob to come to the next one for even more diversity.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
JBzen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1344
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #31 - 02/13/20 at 18:30:40
 
Like a wild horse it is hard to tame bass in a room...down right impossible in small rooms that most of us are stuck with. I just stacked pillows in the back corners of my room and it helped somewhat with the standing wave bloom. A better method then stacked pillows would be needed to furter refine the detail missing in bass notes.
I'm thinking of doing both back corners with ceiling to floor absorbers (like your corner ones) but using activated charcoal as an absorbing substance in vertical panels.
Back to top
 
 

AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #32 - 02/13/20 at 18:37:42
 
Once I went to open baffle, it became much less of an issue.  

Before that there were modes in the room where bass could be significantly louder.  I don't remember how much but huge differences.  I'd have people move to one of the spots and get a wow out of them every time.

Now its pretty even.  I think maybe a little more bass in the back of the room than at the listening position.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
JBzen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1344
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #33 - 02/13/20 at 18:46:36
 
My room has side splayed walls and it seems that all the bass hangs around the wider back of the room. Other areas don't seem to be effected with bass problems since placing the pillows.
Back to top
 
 

AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #34 - 02/13/20 at 21:21:17
 
Tom, considering the size of your listening room, I'm surprised you don't have more bass issues. It gives me hope for my small room (dining room).

I'm still super busy working on the house, I'm trying to finish up the flooring so I can get the spare bedroom built and install a new ceiling...*then* maybe I'll have time to get my setup going properly in the new living room with diffusers and all.

I also need a way to sort and stock all my tubes. I'm thinking some of those Ikea drawers like what Steve has. They have nice blue ones that are wide and short, perfect for building a desk on in my computer room.
I may also have a tube sale, as funds are kinda tight right now and I'm sure I have more tubes than I could use in the next decade.
Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #35 - 02/13/20 at 22:07:51
 
By all accounts, my room should sound bad but its really pretty listenable.

Acoustic Fields has that room size grid chart and my room dimensions are not in the "good" zone at all.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
JBzen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1344
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #36 - 02/14/20 at 11:11:06
 
The perimeter of my room has the makings of good dimensions for a listening room but the height skews it all. At varying heights from 76" to 84", Dennis from AF would just pass on any hopes of treating the room satisfactorily. I even had thoughts of cutting concrete and dropping the floor 3'. It is realistic but hardly on my priority list...maybe a fanatasy list!

The problem with bass in the Chariot(that is the name for the room I coined during the project back in 2002) at this point is attack on the bass notes. Since placing the pillows, the boom has subsided and one can hear the bass notes but not attack on strings. This is obvious with bass guitar and lower octaves of piano. The only treatment inside the room is a quality indoor/outdoor carpet with a thin fiber pad on concrete floor and 3 layers of 1/2" boards(drywall fiber sandwich) on walls with same self supporting ceiling. The 3 layer combination for ceiling is drywall, fiber, and plywood. This has served well as an isolated Home Theater/Listening room over the years but I always knew it needed additional treatment for top notch sound.

BTW, the move to a tube amp is paying off! I am finding that a lot of classical rock is sounding so much better with the SA-2. Styx, Foreigner, Foghat, The Black Crows, Wisbone Ash...on and on!
Back to top
 

20200214_055628-280x400_001.jpg

AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #37 - 02/14/20 at 17:23:44
 
JB, I'd like to see more of your room, you have wider photos showing your Chariot in all it's glory?


I forgot to post a small update about my Zen amp. I did receive new power tubes and some input tubes from Romania (this time ones that actually worked in the amp), and the little Zen amp came alive and filled the room with music! I was glad for that, as I was a bit sour of it's showing with Dan over. We could get a hint of what it was capable of, but I guess the tubes were just too tired.  I really wish I had a modern tube tester, my old Heathkit is fun, but ultimately the old tube testers really only tell you good or bad.
Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
JBzen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1344
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #38 - 02/15/20 at 15:32:00
 
Back to top
 
 

AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #39 - 02/19/20 at 04:17:58
 
I’m surprised how modern tube testers are almost never mentioned in conversations about what to add to one’s system. Granted they aren’t cheap, and aren’t part of the signal path, but when someone is contemplating $1,000 plus cables etc. maybe a tube tester should be on the shopping list as well (or instead).
Back to top
 
 

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #40 - 02/19/20 at 12:36:21
 
I’d agree with you.  I include in my annual Decfest ritual a testing of my new/favorite tubes on Steve’s tester just to know where I am in the tube lifecycle and for matching purposes.  I keep my eye out for a tester on eBay/Craigslist.  Part of my hesitancy is cost but also ignorance of which model to buy.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Showme
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 302
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #41 - 02/19/20 at 15:40:00
 
Amen about knowing what to buy. I found one at a resale shop but ignorance kept me from dropping the couple of $100 they wanted for it.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #42 - 02/19/20 at 19:20:35
 
As far as modern ones go I think MaxiMatcher is about the only option.
Back to top
 
 

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
litefootdan
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 172
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #43 - 02/19/20 at 22:38:14
 
I love what this thread has morphed into!!!!!  Love everyone in this community as well.
Back to top
 
 

Ortofon 2M Bronze | Merrillized AR "The Turntable" | ZP 2 | SE84UFO25 | HDT | Jensen Alnico 15's on the low "OB"
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #44 - 02/19/20 at 22:47:20
 
It’s that PBR Dan.  It breeds community.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Geno
Seasoned Member
****


Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 1988
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #45 - 02/19/20 at 22:50:03
 
I’ve been wanting to buy a tube tester, but am uncertain about there being a problem testing Russian tubes. Example: 6N1P is equivalent to a 6DJ8 type tube. The pin configuration is the same, but would they test properly on an American tester? Same with my rectifiers - 5C3S equivalent to 5U4G.
Back to top
 
 

(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
  IP Logged
Showme
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 302
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #46 - 02/19/20 at 22:56:10
 
That MaxiMatcher seems pretty nice. Anybody have any thoughts on Geno’s concerns?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #47 - 02/20/20 at 00:34:23
 
The MaxiMatcher testers do fine with Russian equivalents, even lists what measurements to expect from both 6N1P and 6DJ8 on the lid. Unfortunately they don’t measure or test rectifiers at all. The MaxiMatcher does power tubes, the MaxiPreamp does preamp tubes. Between those, and an adapter or two you’re pretty much covered for all common tube types. They list everything that can be tested on their site. They can also custom make adapters for other types.

http://www.maximatcher.com/adapters.html

Even the unlisted 6P15P tubes used in the Zen Triodes are testable using the EL84 adapters and settings, although they will measure differently than EL84s the measurements are still valid and just as useful.
Back to top
 
 

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
4krow
Seasoned Member
****


IMAGINE WHIRLLED
PEAS

Posts: 1606
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #48 - 02/20/20 at 00:40:06
 
I may be speaking out of turn here, but regardless of where a tube was manufactured, it should be meeting certain specifications. The tube tester measures what parameters are given for given tube number, supposing that the tube is an equivalent to those parameters, correct?
Back to top
 
 

Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.
  IP Logged
BadWolf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 107
Re: Impromptu Decware.com  CDApS Meet!
Reply #49 - 02/20/20 at 00:54:25
 
That’s my understanding, although I think equivalent can be used pretty loosely sometimes. The example preamp tubes have different settings on the tester as well as different expected measurements. So in that case equivalent must not be identical. As for the 6P15P they are not an EL84 equivalent and won’t work properly in most amps that are made for EL84s. I think the main concern with testing is having the correct pinout for the tester and knowing what measurements to expect (most of which are listed on the lid of the testers). Those being satisfied I don’t see how it’d make any difference where the tube was made etc.
Back to top
 
 

Zen OTL, SE84UFO25, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print