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Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to... (Read 6225 times)
SugarBear
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Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
01/04/20 at 19:28:59
 
I could not find a forum for these speakers, so I posted here. I really would like a pair of the Open Baffle 15’s, but the wife has let it be known I’d never have a moments peace if I put them in our house... I like peace. Anyway, the Crystal 10’s are obviously going to have different characteristics since they’re put there driver in a box, could someone give a general idea of what they are strong at compared to the 16 Open Baffles?

Also can someone comment on the build quality and finish?
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Alex
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers
Reply #1 - 01/05/20 at 19:59:11
 
I have the Lii Audio Fast 10 which is the predecessor to Crystal 10 and it really sounds good. I built... or I’m building an enclosure with the following measurements: 33” tall x17”long x14 width. The sides curve out 2.5 inches. I’m currently testing different ports in a cheap front panel to determine how many ports I want.  I’m using Baltic birch wood except for the front because of testing purposes. No need to drill test ports on the front baffles with the real wood. Here’s a link with pictures of my build.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/full-range/793859d1573423329-audio-n....

By the way, there are two forums out there where a person built an enclosure for the Crystal 10.

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=31054.90
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Flagship Speakers
Reply #2 - 01/06/20 at 02:26:48
 

The low bass extension is what these speakers have over the large open baffles. Also, the midrange and top end is more nuanced.
Cabinet build quality is very good. Veneer work is a B+ which we feel is more than reasonable considering the price. If these speakers were made in the USA, the cost would be multiplied by four at which point you would expect absolute perfection.

Steve
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers
Reply #3 - 01/06/20 at 02:59:22
 

As a followup to the bass performance... you will hear me talk about this a lot with reference to this speaker and it's not because that's it's main sales feature - not by a long shot.  What it IS though, is a unique bass performance that you're not going to get out of a subwoofer or most large multi-driver hi-fi speakers of today. Let me expand on this a bit...

When you want good bass, there is no substitute for a large cabinet.  

Subwoofers you buy at the store are basically the opposite of that. They are in contrast a small box, a woofer that moves in and out so far you can see it from across the room, lots of power to drive it thus requiring solid state amplification to keep it affordable and a crossover component. This approach has been and always will be a bandaid on what we can think of as a wounded sound by speakers too small to have any real bass on their own.

A large cabinet means a large cabinet per driver.

Shoving 4 woofers in a large tower doesn't count. That's because each woofer divides the box volume by four making it exactly the same as a stack of small subwoofers in small boxes. A large cabinet is to the driver what a cathedral is to a pipe organ. What would a pipe organ sound like dismantled and re-assembled in your listening room? It's the same thing.

To require a large box to hit the resonance point of a driver means that the driver is not going to be moving much to create that huge deep bass, while in contrast the comparatively tiny subwoofer cube driver is going to have to flop all over the place just to keep up.  

The 100dB efficiency you get in the large enclosure means that you get deep, low, powerful and effortless bass without noticeable cone movement. It is the most realistic, cohesive bass you can hear from a loudspeaker for home use.  

In the USA, speakers like this are no longer popular because it's 1950 technology, too big, hard to market in the flashy world of multi-driver loudspeakers, and because every generation is convinced they're smarter than the last generation, few people have even heard such a thing. That said, I can tell you the only thing that has happened since the 1950's in hi-fi is that it is has shrunk and developed it's own fashion industry element that drives the price up.  I mean if you're going to spend upwards of $150,000 on a pair of speakers, it goes without saying they are going to be big, but at the same time, someone might laugh at you if it only has one driver, so you can be pretty sure it's going to have as many as will fit.

Steve

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GroovySauce
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #4 - 01/07/20 at 11:39:29
 
I have not heard the F-15's nor the C10 flagship box. I did get a simple quarter wave box made and put the Crystal 10's in.

I got the design from Leon Huijgen which is available on Lii Audio's website. I added a little more bracing and the cabinet is still very reverberant. If I was to make it again I would add more bracing. The MDF here in The Philippines seems to be less dense than when I was used to in the USA, that might have a little to do with it also. I would also add a lot of a No-Rez type product as well.

Even with that I'm really impressed with how good the speakers sound! Due to the design it drops like a stone at 60hz.

If the C10 box sounds as good or better in the midrange with the full bass extension I would say it's a killer set of speakers.


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Tooppy
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #5 - 01/11/20 at 18:34:43
 
Quote:
As a followup to the bass performance... you will hear me talk about this a lot with reference to this speaker and it's not because that's it's main sales feature - not by a long shot.  What it IS though, is a unique bass performance that you're not going to get out of a subwoofer or most large multi-driver hi-fi speakers of today. Let me expand on this a bit...

When you want good bass, there is no substitute for a large cabinet.  

Subwoofers you buy at the store are basically the opposite of that. They are in contrast a small box, a woofer that moves in and out so far you can see it from across the room, lots of power to drive it thus requiring solid state amplification to keep it affordable and a crossover component. This approach has been and always will be a bandaid on what we can think of as a wounded sound by speakers too small to have any real bass on their own.

A large cabinet means a large cabinet per driver.

Shoving 4 woofers in a large tower doesn't count. That's because each woofer divides the box volume by four making it exactly the same as a stack of small subwoofers in small boxes. A large cabinet is to the driver what a cathedral is to a pipe organ. What would a pipe organ sound like dismantled and re-assembled in your listening room? It's the same thing.

To require a large box to hit the resonance point of a driver means that the driver is not going to be moving much to create that huge deep bass, while in contrast the comparatively tiny subwoofer cube driver is going to have to flop all over the place just to keep up.  

The 100dB efficiency you get in the large enclosure means that you get deep, low, powerful and effortless bass without noticeable cone movement. It is the most realistic, cohesive bass you can hear from a loudspeaker for home use.  

In the USA, speakers like this are no longer popular because it's 1950 technology, too big, hard to market in the flashy world of multi-driver loudspeakers, and because every generation is convinced they're smarter than the last generation, few people have even heard such a thing. That said, I can tell you the only thing that has happened since the 1950's in hi-fi is that it is has shrunk and developed it's own fashion industry element that drives the price up.  I mean if you're going to spend upwards of $150,000 on a pair of speakers, it goes without saying they are going to be big, but at the same time, someone might laugh at you if it only has one driver, so you can be pretty sure it's going to have as many as will fit.

Steve


Absolutely right and well said ! Big drivers, big bass, big sound stage!
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André
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #6 - 04/13/20 at 10:27:00
 
Hi

This is my first post in this forum   Smiley

I'm thinking to buy a pair of the Crystal 10 flagship speakers with the big cabinets.

However I'm just wondering if there are any negative things to say about these speakers or if all is good?

Will it be enough with only 2 watts to get punchy and dynamic bass and sound with these? My living room is about 25 square meters so I guess they will be loud enough  :)

How about the sound signature. How will you characterize it?

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RaidersFan
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #7 - 06/13/20 at 19:18:41
 
Recently took delivery on a pair of these speakers.  Still breaking in, but initial impressions are pretty good so far.  Arrived via freight in wooden crates and well wrapped/covered - cabinet work is very good and I added a walnut stinger to the front baffle.  Will post back after more break-in.  
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Tooppy
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #8 - 06/13/20 at 20:01:40
 
It seems the Lii's site isn't working anymore.
Any news from the Lii ??
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ArtMan
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #9 - 06/14/20 at 22:27:37
 
It is working for me.

https://www.lii-audio.com/
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Tooppy
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #10 - 06/15/20 at 11:21:35
 
OK its works again today.
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Erwin
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #11 - 07/15/20 at 02:18:52
 
I too am very interested in these speakers. I love the look of the cabinets- rare nowadays to find speakers that look this good at this price point. I would also like to know which amplifier would pair best with them? Ie, would the 2w Super Zen (or 25th Anniversary edition) be ideal or should I be looking at something with more power like the Mini Torii, Zen Torii, Zen Integrated, ad infinitum... There are just too many options and not enough $$$.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #12 - 07/15/20 at 17:22:56
 
A 2 watt Zen Triode was used during last years DECFEST and performed so well that many people mistaking thought the speakers were hooked up to one of the big amps.

Steve

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jeffr
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #13 - 07/27/20 at 18:58:38
 
VERY interested in these speakers (inc cabinets) from Lii Audio ... I have the opportunity to purchase a pair of Audio Note AN-E/Lx with Sound Anchor stands for the same money as the new Crystal 10 complete speakers

The Crystal 10 is fascinating to me in appearance and design ... like very much the idea of a 100db crossover-less speaker.

The AN-E/Lx is not as efficient and of course includes a cross-over but seems "universally" praised for use in a low power tube system (I am actually surprised how few negative comments I have read on the AN-E's in this hobby

My room is 12ft x 19ft x 7.5ft ... cement block and plaster walls with hardwood wood floors.  Speakers would IDEALLY be located in or near corners on short wall

Equipment includes:  Woo Audio transport and DAC, Acoustic Masterpiece (Air Tight) C101 preamp, Acoustic Masterpiece M101 amp (6w per channel SE KT88s)

I realize the Crystal 10s are sold here but hoping there may be someone who has heard both speakers

Thx

Jeff in NE PA
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Stefan
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #14 - 10/18/20 at 22:05:09
 
Also very interested in these speakers. Looks like Lii Audio is upgrading the C10:
https://www.facebook.com/959183250944130/photos/a.981596272036161/14274663941158...

And looks like they also having some upgraded cabinets coming:
https://www.facebook.com/959183250944130/photos/a.981596272036161/14356109866346...

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Geno
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #15 - 10/19/20 at 03:58:38
 
I saw these on the Lii Facebook page. Looks like these will be called Silver 10’s. Not sure if they are taking the place of the Crystals or just another edition in their line.

Leon on the Lii page had very positive first impressions of these. His initial opinion is that they are better than the Crystal. I’ll be watching the page for more in depth reviews as well as when they officially add them to their line. It’ll be interesting to see the price tag...

If they are better than the Crystal, they must really be something.
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Stefan
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Re: Lii Crystal 10 Fkagship Speakers compared to...
Reply #16 - 10/19/20 at 04:41:54
 
Yeah, that would be very cool!

They also just posted the cabinet upgrades, nothing about if the price increases or not:
"Upgrades for Crystal-10 complete speakers. What's new:
1. We now use marine wood, a high-end plywood that often used on yachts to build it.
2. Better multi-layer lacquer on the surface, now it's very shinning.
3. A metal frame carved on front panel, this is a little hard to realize in techniques but we finally found a solution.
Nothing changed in terms of acoustic performance, but we just want it to bring more beauty to eyes so as to ears."

Looks like they really make the speaker look as good as it sounds  :)
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- Stefan
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