Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/28/24 at 20:03:15 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Tube rolling in SE84UFO25? (Read 5618 times)
Crowes
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
09/07/19 at 14:13:02
 
Has anyone rolled the 7DJ8s or SV83s?  Any suggestions or tubes to avoid?  Thank you.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #1 - 09/07/19 at 14:48:07
 
In my Anniversary Monoblocks the output tubes that Steve tests and matches and supplies are clearly the best.

For input tubes I've settled on 7308s, Amperex, Holland made.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Crowes
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #2 - 09/07/19 at 15:49:01
 
Thank you.  I was looking at Matsushita and Telefunkens as an option for the 7DJ8.  I saw that EL84s did not sound good for outputs, so I wanted opinions on the input tube before I spent the $$$.  I love that Mr. Deckert takes the time to choose great sounding tubes.  Perhaps I won't bother ordering an input tube at all!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #3 - 09/07/19 at 21:02:24
 
Crowes,

I used the SV83 in my SE84UFO2 but in the UFO25 I found that the 6P15EV that are supplied are my preference hands down.  Last I talked to Steve, the NOS input tube that is supplied is a NOS National/Matsushita 7DJ8 and I would recommend getting it from Steve.

I’ve tried a number of different input tubes and gravitate to the 7DJ8/PCC88 types.  A real interesting one is the NOS Tesla PCC88 37 CODE, not the 32 CODE.  I picked up 8 of these for $8.00 ea. after trying one in my CSP3 but can’t remember what these were like in the UFO25. In the UFO25 I’m using a Telefunken PCC189.

I have not tried the rectifier that is supplied and now have settled on a rather pricey one so I won’t belabour that but the Mullard GZ34 Fat Base Smooth Plates (not Notched Plates) is considerably less money than the one that I am using.  Still a little pricey but well worth the price of admission IMO. Of all the rectifiers that I’ve tried that one is my second choice.  

I’d start with what Steve supplies, burn it in and then decide if you even need or want to do any tube rolling.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Crowes
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #4 - 09/07/19 at 22:09:54
 
@JOMAN which tubes made the greatest difference?  The input, output or rectifier?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #5 - 09/07/19 at 23:10:50
 
That’s a tough question to answer as all the tubes make a difference.  Really, the question is which one first?

Based on my experience I would say the rectifier, as the rectifier can effect all the other tubes far more than I realized when I first started and finally learned or realized this with the last rectifier that I tried.

Yes the input tube will make quite a difference but its performances will be limited or enhanced by the rectifier.  More to the point... when I tried the GZ34 Metal Base it made ALL the input tubes far, far, better, even ones that previously I had written off.  In fact, for me it was a sort of an epiphany.  That’s when I realized the importance of the rectifier.

The other tubes that made a difference were the Voltage Regulator tubes, but I would probably do these last.  These are the cheapest and possibly the ones that I had the most fun with.

So if I were do do it all over again... The 6P15EV that come with the UFO25 are a no brainer, no need to roll these.  First start with the Rectifier, next the input and last the VR tubes.

If you want to see the difference that the input tube makes I’ll give you one of my NOS Tesla PCC88, I have far more than I’ll ever use.  These may not be to your liking but at least you’ll see/hear the difference the input tube makes.

However, the rectifier can make the input and output tubes better or worse, and not just a little better or worse.  It’s like the anchor for the entire system.    

A word of caution here... once you start down this road it can be hard to get off of it.  Sometimes ignorance can be bliss, and this amp will be bliss as it comes.  So let it burn in and then decide if you want to do any tube rolling.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Crowes
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #6 - 09/08/19 at 02:16:31
 
Thank you so much for the information.  My amp is not even being built yet, but I wanted to grab some NOS tubes as the prices are getting ridiculous.  I was considering the Phillips 5R4GRS.  I once purchased one of these for peanuts and gave it away with a preamp that I sold!  It is now selling for over $200, but it is considered a grail for some.  I will look at the one you recommended as well.  Thank you sincerely.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #7 - 09/08/19 at 02:40:54
 
Crowes,

The GZ34 Metal base has really escalated in price and even when you can get a “reasonably” priced one your looking at well over $400.00, usually, and I consider that to be a deal.  I managed to pay less. I now have one in my UFO25 and one in my CSP3.

A review worth reading is the Dubs Step Girls Massive Rectifier Review, it’s very accurate.

A good alternative to the GZ34 Metal Base is the Mullard GZ34 Fat Base SMOOTH PLATE, not the notched plate.  That is my second choice.  Another one that I consider to be superior to the Philips 5R4GYS (I also had one) is the Sophia 274B Aqua.  I had a bad experience with two of those but others have not, perhaps it was just the two I had, but as a result I was put off new Chinese tubes and went back to NOS.

Be careful though with the NOS rectifiers as a number will only take input cap values of 16uF and that is very risky, 47uF is recommended although I’ve used ones that were slightly lower (40uF) than that as have others.

Otherwise enjoy!



Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #8 - 09/08/19 at 18:46:33
 
I would invite experimentation as I honestly believe that room, source, speakers, and cabling at the least all influence how tubes "sound" in a system and one man's "this is the one!" is not necessarily another's. And then there's the concept of "taste" and what one's idea of "natural" or "neutral" is. I've seen enough divergences there to know that is an issue.

There are a number of relatively inexpensive tubes to try and it can be quite educational to roll a number of different types for each position, and when you find a preference for a type, sample a few brands. I have done this over the years and have enjoyed the journey and also wound up in the right "place" for my system.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #9 - 09/13/19 at 03:31:01
 
I just tried a Valvo GZ32 in my UFO25 and my CSP3.  I did this not to compare with the GZ34 Metal Base but out of curiosity.  I happened  on this version of the GZ32 and compared it to the CV593/GZ32 and a Mullard pre 60’s GZ32.  Of those three the Valvo (made in France for the German Navy) and the Mullard CV593 were close and in many ways I preferred the Valvo.

Then I put the GZ34 Metal Base back in and the difference was so obvious that I had to post.  Not that the others were bad.  No, in fact I really liked what I heard with the Valvo GZ32 and for $80.00 ea., would be a keeper if I hadn’t heard the GZ34 Metal Base.

It’s not about the highs, mids and lows.  The Valvo had good depth and layering.  But what was missing was the decay and liquidity and the details within those attributes that the Metal Base GZ34 produces.  The sound from the Metal Base comes across as a 3 dimensional field that combined with the dynamics, decay and liquidity give the impression of live as close as you can get or, possibly as close as very few tubes can.  Of all the rectifiers I have tried none so far are remotely close.

Everything else is in my amps is the same as with all the other rectifiers I have tried.  Yet none have produced what the GZ34 Metal Base has.

So what’s the point?  I’m not saying that it’s the perfect rectifier tube.  I’m not saying to run out and by one and not to experiment, after all these are stupid money now, at least the ones that are up for sale are IMO.  Am I saying that to get the stellar results from the UFO25 you have to have one...NO!

What I am saying is that the GZ34 Metal Base is different and unique.  That there are tubes out there that were special and may never be equaled.  Probably very few.  Maybe the Mullard U52 and Western Electric 422A are another couple that are in that “special” bracket, also stupid expensive IMO.  Until you hear one you won’t be able fully understand the difference as these are only words.

I will also say that the the GZ34 Metal Base doesn’t make the UFO25 special.  It’s special in it’s own right.  If it weren’t then the GZ34 Metal base would not be so obviously different.  It’s the UFO25 that shows what that tube is all about and it will do the same with any other tube you try.
 
So experiment if you have the urge to with something more reasonably priced.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Crowes
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #10 - 09/13/19 at 12:23:47
 
@JOMAN @LON thank you for taking the time to respond.  My UFO25 is being built and you two are making me salivate already!  I was inquiring about tubes because I thought that I would buy a few to have on hand as the prices of NOS are going through the roof.  I will keep my eyes open for the GZ metal base.  I am surprised about the Phillips 5R4GYS as I have heard many people raving about them, but perhaps it is not the best for the UFO25.  I was also considering a Matsushida for the 7DJ8, but it sounds like this is already what comes in the UFO25.  There is a Telefunken I am considering as well, but it seems like Mr. Deckert carefully chooses these tubes and I may just hold off.  Very much looking forward to the UFO25!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #11 - 09/13/19 at 12:44:01
 
Crowes,

Let the amp burn in.  Don’t be in a rush to roll.

The points that Lon makes are valid, factor personal taste into the equation and that’s something that you can only determine by experimenting.  Tube rolling can be an expensive education but it can be rewarding.

Not saying that the Philips 5R4GYS is not a good tube, but it’s not the grail and at $200.00 per, there’s definitely better IMO.  The Rectifier review that I referred to is accurate.  Give it a read.  One of the tubes reviewed is the Philips 5R4GYS.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #12 - 09/13/19 at 14:34:26
 
I agree with John, definitely let the tubes that come with the amp play as the amp burns in. They'll be fine tubes and may end up even being your ultimate choice, as Fats Waller said, "One never knows, do one?"
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #13 - 09/26/19 at 15:43:18
 
Don't forget the humble 5Z3 rectifiers..get yourself that silly expensive but worth every penny woo audio 5Z3-5U4 converter,"i'm working with 40% exchange rate and over oppressive taxes so my silly may not be your silly"then find some nos 5Z3' and 280-380 globes…$400 for a GZ34!!!…a tube dealer i was talking with said someone from the US bought all his MULLARDS a "year back? for $30 a piece..he looked sad,so i didn't ask how many,but seemed like dozens.LOL.
Anyone grab their input tube? seems they only get barelywarm from the top,could hold with 3 fingers all day,the sides for 10 seconds before uncomfortable…Normal? thermapened at 100 degrees top and 125-127 for the sides.The matsushita 7dj8 is all the input driver you'll ever need..rolled plenty…and do get an extra pair or 2 of them russian 6p-15 ev sidearms.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #14 - 10/16/19 at 19:54:28
 
The psvane 5u4g is a good tube…tried OC3 VR105/30/SG3S and so far 3 out of 8 were dead on arrival,one popped while turning on..The OA3 VR75/30 SG2S are really really nice,most powerful so far,or maybe just seems that way?..still haven't figured out how 75 is more powerful than 105,130's.Also have a 1960 russian rectifier and 2 1961' and i have no opinion on these..Neutral?,maybe kind of boring.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #15 - 10/16/19 at 21:34:03
 
I have some nice OC3 that all arrived perfectly NOS but. .. I don't dig the sound in my 25th Anniversary Monoblocks. The sweet spot in the regulation tubes for the power tubes in my Monoblocks are the OB3. I'm using a pair of Arcturus that are rich and ride the line between revealing and natural sounding.

My DAC has a new operating system I'm adapting to and I rolled through a half a dozen rectifiers again this week and landed back with the Sophia Electric Aqua 274Bs. They just seem. . .just right.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #16 - 10/21/19 at 23:02:17
 
I have around 40 regulators,some singles I use up front.at 3-$5 per tube at my junk store I grab what they put out..went to an audio show thinking of listening to some omega speakers and the room was closed,a no show,klipsch had a pair of klipschorns in the middle of the room,also in the moon audio room a pair of lascalas that my p3’s would embarrass in the bass,harbeth had my p3”s upside down,really they were UPSIDE DOWN..i came home disappointed,popped in a type 80 and played some real music.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #17 - 11/04/19 at 20:06:32
 
I’ve lost track of the hours but enough time has passed by for the GZ34 Metal Base to settle in and for me to get a longer term handle on this tube.  I have one in my UFO25 and my CSP3.  So I’ve been able to see/hear what effect these have had on both.

The Philips Miniwatt GZ34 Metal base has some very unique properties and does what no other rectifier has been able to that I have tried including an AZ1 Valvo Branded TF mesh plate.  Took a risk, it worked and I just had to compare.

In fact it does what no other GZ34 non metal base can do.  Including the Mullard GZ34 Fat Base Smooth Plate, although if I had to that would be my second choice.

I am not saying that it’s the perfect tube just that it’s strong attributes set it apart:

1. Decay, liquidity, bass and density across the spectrum,
2. Vocals - to die for
3. Harmonizes with all other associated tubes and really elevates them

With respect to point 3; I have rolled different input tubes in the CSP3, including ones that I wrote off.  With the GZ34 Metal Base I have appreciated all of the input tubes including the National/Matsushita 7DJ8.  I do have preferences but non that I did not like or appreciate.  Makes it really easy to “tune” the system to ones likes.

As for the over all performance - jaw dropping, no matter how many times I play the same pieces.  It’s cured me of the tube rolling disease.


Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jslateiv
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 160
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #18 - 11/05/19 at 14:02:24
 
Good to hear Joman!   I'm keeping my eyes open for a metal base that doesn't go for crazy $$.   I did manage to find and score a F31 Fat base smooth plate that you mention.  Grabbed it for $100 and it tests better than new.   Have been running it for about a month now.  Really like it alot.  All the talk of the metal base though has really caught my attention.
Back to top
 
 

PureFidelity Harmony (SS Zephyr MIMC / ZYX Ultimate 100 / Miyajima Madake) > Roon/NUC > Holo KTE May > Supratek Cortese LCR > SE84-25 Zen / Gerus 300B / Radu Tarta Ultimate 300B > Triangle Celius 202 / Zu Omen (Hi-Mod) / ZenMstrL-F15 : PSA P12 : Iconoclast Cabling
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #19 - 11/05/19 at 20:10:43
 
That is a really nice tube jslateive, and a great deal imo.  Definitely my second choice and only in comparison to the Metal Base otherwise it would be my first.

I really hope that you find a Metal Base at a reasonable price, there were a couple of auctions recently but I didn’t bother to see what they eventually went for.  If you do find one and it doesn’t work out I’m sure that you could re sell it no problem, although I think that would not be likely.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #20 - 11/06/19 at 23:28:18
 
I’m back with the supplied tubes,Sylvania OA3’ in back,Raytheon OD3 front,one of my 3 don’t matter which exquisite 280 globes,Matsushibainusonicpani 7dj8,ev15’.Done..This amp is on a different level.

Ohh my buddy was over listening and his mouth fell open...I said it took 8 years for them p3’s to break in,about 30 thousand hours..lol.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jslateiv
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 160
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #21 - 11/13/19 at 22:13:47
 
GZ34 Metal showed up today.  Thanks to John for the tip-off about one on ebay!  Tests 98% on both plates (my tester),..  Haven't listened critically for more than a few songs just now but have had it playing as bckgrd music while I worked this afternoon.

Very, very nice addition!  Gotta get in alot more listening and some back to back comparisons with other rectifiers but early indication points to all of John's hype on the tube.  Very exciting.  May be a long evening.   Wink
Back to top
 
 

PureFidelity Harmony (SS Zephyr MIMC / ZYX Ultimate 100 / Miyajima Madake) > Roon/NUC > Holo KTE May > Supratek Cortese LCR > SE84-25 Zen / Gerus 300B / Radu Tarta Ultimate 300B > Triangle Celius 202 / Zu Omen (Hi-Mod) / ZenMstrL-F15 : PSA P12 : Iconoclast Cabling
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #22 - 11/15/19 at 01:34:46
 
I just rolled the input tube in my CSP3.  Came across a Amprex BB 6DJ8, perfectly matched sections that I forgot I had.  I couldn’t get it to work with the SE84UFO2 or the UFO25 even though I really liked it with my previous set up.  In fact I tried to sell it at one point.

Well, with the GZ34 Metal Base it’s nothing short of stunning.  Gives those nice Amprex mids, fabulous bass with sweet highs.  It’s back in my KEEP  group.

So, now depending on my mood I’ll either roll the Valvo PCC88 D getter or the Amprex 6DJ8.  Right now I’m definitely in the Amprex mood.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #23 - 11/15/19 at 01:43:32
 
Yes, I'm running an all Amperex signal path in my main system now--six 7308s in the ZTPRE, and a 6085 in the ZROCK2 and a pair of 6085 in the 25th Anniversary Monoblocks. Just a wonderful 3 dimensional sound with body and texture and the right frequency balance. Works so well with the Sophia Electric Aquas and my one excellent pair of Arcturus 0B3 in the Monoblocks. I keep coming back to this complement--the new OS for my DAC had me rolling others for a while but with settling in and speaker placement and gain riding I'm back to this great complement.

I have four nice Amperex 6DJ8 in the closet. Was using three in the CSP3-25 for a while, but in my second system the Mullard ECC189 works very well in the three positions in the CSP3-25 and in the Taboo MK IV-25, been really enjoying these in that system.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #24 - 11/28/19 at 19:20:37
 
Just when I thought I was out.....been listening to one of my unbalanced amperex’ going on 2weeks..2-3 days and I replaced globe with a sylvania straight bottle 5u4g and pow!..spooky good.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #25 - 01/09/20 at 19:28:28
 
1965 Telefunken EL-83’s do not work in the 25th amp?Put in a pair and the voltage regulators refuse to turn on.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #26 - 01/09/20 at 20:56:25
 
EL83 are not compatible with the Zen amps. EL84, yes, EL83, no.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #27 - 01/09/20 at 21:26:10
 
Oh great!...4 pairs..=8.. 5 came in a cool sleeve..ha!
Have an amazing Raytheon huge lil potato masher rectifier and 4 0B3 sylvania,purple with blue rings.
Ohh and that pair of Omega monitor 3i’s the ebony ones from the Omega store..sweeeeet.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #28 - 01/13/20 at 17:58:08
 
Voltage drops for the VR tubes,they’re holding back voltage,so my 75’ are more powerful than my 150’,have some nos 7308,6692.Also using this amp as a quick tube tester under load,buddy thinks he has no’s tubes,not when I test them.lol.every day I fall deeper for this amp.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #29 - 08/10/20 at 18:27:16
 
I have 8k hours on this amplifier,the original from the start 6p15’ sound better,smoother,more lively than the second pair that i’v been listening to for the past 3 days....these output tubes will last forever is my thinking.
There’s nothing annoying about the sound of this amplifier,no need always thinking that could be smoother,sharper,tighter,nothing,just a great forever take it with you amp.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #30 - 08/10/20 at 19:25:11
 
Well, I honestly still loved the sound of my old worn output tubes until I had about 100 hours or so on the new pair. Then in comparison it was clear the former pair were not up to snuff! The old ones were smooth, yes, but not all music is smooth!

I am running Svetlana SV83s in my other amp and enjoy the different sound they offer there in that bigger room, but in my SE84UFO3-25 Monoblocks this new pair of output tubes from Steve is just occasionally SCARING me.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1589
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #31 - 08/11/20 at 01:45:33
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tubecan      Posted on: Yesterday at 18:27:16
I have 8k hours on this amplifier,the original from the start 6p15’ sound better,smoother,more lively than the second pair that i’v been listening to for the past 3 days....these output tubes will last forever is my thinking.


Great. Now you jinked them.  ;D
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #32 - 08/14/20 at 15:36:58
 
I’m all jinxed out with that reputable guy in the ukraine,before I saw my amp I ordered,at those prices,a no brainer.lol.
Wanna buy a pair of 6p15 that blink along with the music?,have a pair that were afraid to turn on at all,a pair that I think make a sound,out of 6 pairs I have a pair of keepers.
Just realized they all matched..haha.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1589
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #33 - 08/16/20 at 06:01:59
 
Interesting. I too received a big shipment of tubes from the Motherland the other day and I've been going through and testing all of them. And it has been very educational. I got 3 kinds of 6P15P, the -EB, the -ER and the plain 6P15P. Also some 6P14P and 6P43P that are near equivalents to the EL84 and some Tesla EL83 and EL803s that I'm going to adapt to EL84/6P15P.

I tested all the tubes as 6BQ5/EL84, and the Russian tubes were all over the map. I will say that the 6P15P-EB (EV is the Latin rendering of the Cyrillic)  that Steve uses in the amps were tighter than the others, but still at least a 25% spread. Eventually I'll get my amps with Decware approved tubes and I'm very interested to see where those tubes test. The Tesla tubes however all tested within 10% of each other. Doesn't mean they will sound good, or even that they will work at all. But I'm looking forward to trying them, as it seems possible, even likely, the Hazen Grid Mod will work with adapted EL83s.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #34 - 08/17/20 at 20:01:43
 
If you like I’ll get an adapter and take the chance of meltdown,I remember staring at the el 83 telefunken because they lit up the whole room,after a minute I noticed the OA3 VR’ weren’t on and then flashed and turned a bright red,pulled.Hazen mode eh?..I,ll do it.
I typed Hazel...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1589
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #35 - 08/17/20 at 22:41:06
 
Based on my reading of the datasheet you need to swap pins 9 and 1 to make an EL83 work. I got an EL83 -> EL84 adapter from ebay, and it sort of works. EL83s test as EL84s. But it actually maps 1 to both 1 and 9 and 9 to both 9 and 1. It show shorts on my tube tester, and I worry. I'm working on making my own adapters that have the pins connected the way I want, it is slow going but I've got time.

If you're cool getting adapters and giving it try I'd love to hear how it goes. Pretty sure it won't be worse than putting the tubes in without adapters.

Edit-- I should rephrase what I said about the adapters. There is no problem  on the tube tester because in theory there is no connection on pin 1 for and EL84. But there is a (possible) connection to pin 1 for a 6P15P, so I worry what would happen in the amp.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2126
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #36 - 08/18/20 at 01:34:37
 
Which tester do you use? I have a Hickok 6000. I could never figure out what test settings for the 6P15P. I was able to test some 6N1P using the test data from the 6bq7.
Back to top
 
 

MINI TORII & ZROCK2 both anniversaried; 'Lil Audio F-15; TECHNICS SL1200MK2 KAB MODDED TT; ONKYO 6 DISC CD; MARANTZ 2226B; SCHIIT MULTIBIT DAC; SENNHEISER HD-580s
55   IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1589
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #37 - 08/18/20 at 02:44:55
 
I test the 6P15Ps as 6BQ5 which is American for EL84.  I use a Hickok TV-7D FWIW.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #38 - 08/19/20 at 16:47:01
 
I’m out,just thinking of going through a shoebox full of unmarked dirtyconverters and then I’ll need 2,I’m listening to my second pair of p15’ I installed last week and there’s no difference in holographic reach out and touch sound so I’m selling my cat and getting 3 -4 pairs from here and calling it done.
Ohh I went on the voxamp repair forums EL83 to 84 and I now know less than when I started.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #39 - 08/28/20 at 17:03:50
 
The second pair of 6p15’  are doing a number on my ears...guess they don’t last forever,8-10 k hours is correct....this is sublime.
Someone posted a 100 hours run in and that’s about right.WOW!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #40 - 11/04/20 at 15:29:40
 
Crowes,get yourself that woo converter and many different type 80’s,I have cheap 10$ eBay specials and haven’t been disappointed with any of them,some image amazingly,some with tight bass,sloppy bass.
Ohh and the GE’el cheap 5670’ from the tubestore with converters are really great in my amp,have a nice collection and these 5670’  GE’ are my favourite,have been listening to these for months now,with many rectifier combos.The resolution and overall sound is undescribable,just at that right feel good without exaggeration,this amp makes you want to get up and dance.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Tubecan
Senior Member
***




Posts: 86
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #41 - 11/04/20 at 15:39:02
 
What happened?A year flew by!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dragos
Verified Member
**




Posts: 3
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #42 - 11/02/22 at 18:47:39
 
Hello!
Did someone tried the SE84UFO25 with Russian NOS tubes, rectification 5U4G Svetlana Blackplate, output 6P14P and signal 6N23P-EV?
Does it work?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23307
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #43 - 01/06/23 at 22:23:30
 
That tube complement should "work." It's up to you as to whether you like the sound or not.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Macfly4
Verified Member
**




Posts: 9
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #44 - 08/25/23 at 17:53:55
 
Silly noob questions here about the two rear OA3 output voltage regulator tubes.
1) are these swappable with tubes like 0D3 or do the HAVE to always be OA3? What would happen if you DID put in two OD3s? Would it damage anything?
2) do those particular tubes have any/much sonic impact?
I apologize. This is a great hobby but the learning curve is steep!
Thank you
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1589
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #45 - 08/25/23 at 20:37:56
 
I had similar questions:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1650243979

Short answer is feel free to try different flavors of VR tube and let us know what you think. You won't hurt anything.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 763
Re: Tube rolling in SE84UFO25?
Reply #46 - 08/26/23 at 12:47:25
 
Not much is said in the UFO25 owners manual about rolling the OA3's supplying the output tubes with ones of different values.  I did have a general conversation with Steve about the VR tubes.  When it came to the OA3's, as it relates specifically to the UFO25, I can't recall exactly what he said but the impression I had was that it is not recommended or that it it is best not to roll those tubes with ones of different values.  We were talking specifically about the UFO25.

I have rolled different brands of OA'3s and found that the difference between brands can be quite significant.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print