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Steve's BIG BETSY Project (Read 182959 times)
HockessinKid
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1450 - 04/15/20 at 13:27:36
 
After some additional experimentation with tilt and toe in I've settled in on using a double stack of the Gingko Arch 1's (~3" rise) on the front and toe in that' has drivers pointed about 12" outside my shoulders in my listening position which is 11' from my Caintuck Lii Audio 15 baffles.

This arrangement gives me a good balance between soundstage width & depth. Keep in mind my rear wall & 1st reflection point are covered with diffuser panels.

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Dynavector 20x2LO cart + Modwright PH 9.0 phono pre > ZROCK2-25th OR Modwright modified Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th preamp > ZMA-25th amp > PI Audio Group UberBUSS PC > Omega SAHO XRS or Caintuck Audio Lii 15 speakers > various cables.
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1451 - 04/15/20 at 13:54:41
 
Iím also running 7.5 degrees and shoulder pointing toe in. I may prefer a little more toe in but thatís where itís set for now.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Anniversary Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, Zen Styx Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speaker
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Tooppy
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1452 - 04/16/20 at 21:26:28
 
Just finish my Karlsonator for these F15, first listening.....bye bye OB....it is just what I thought, big boxes give a much better approach, it really fill up the room at low level with plenty of details.
And with the K, placement is so much easier.
When I say "finish" not really, I have plenty more to do but done enough to try if it was worth carrying on and it is.
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Acousticzen
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1453 - 04/16/20 at 21:51:47
 
Toppy,

I would love to see the speakers!
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Tooppy
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1454 - 04/16/20 at 22:08:39
 
I'll post this weekend, time to snap, reduce the size etc...
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1455 - 04/17/20 at 01:07:31
 
Tooppy,

I looked at your old posts on the F15s and I'm a little confused.  Did you ever run them in a baffle?  I only see that you ran them naked on the floor.

I'm looking forward to seeing the enclosure you are building for them.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
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DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1456 - 05/20/20 at 01:56:20
 
Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1457 - 05/20/20 at 02:04:33
 
Dan Posted:

My Big Betsy's are sounding better than ever with the addition of a "tweeter". †Its not really a tweeter, as its running full range, but it functions as a tweeter in that it adds some sparkle on the high end. †It just seems to make everything better. †The hi end, the "hit" from a snare drum, and even the already huge sound stage is even bigger. †Imaging doesn't seem to suffer either. †Everything just seems better.

It doesn't seem to be real sensitive as to what small driver I use. †I first used the 6.5" Tang Bands that were in my corner horns, then moved to some real cheep 8" coax speakers I had lying around. †Finally settled in on the Dayton 6.5" point source full range speaker that I had an extra pair of on the shelf. †The Dayton is the best of the three simply because it is more efficient and that matched better to the the F15's. †The Daytons are running full range off a second amp (a Zkit60) while the F15's are running off some prototype Zkit60 monoblocks. †Two 15" subs in the corners complete the system and its sounding better than anything else I've ever had in the workshop. †I'd even go so far as to say its matching what Steve is getting out of his OB's - maybe even better because of the higher bass output due to the sub.



I was running the Daytons with a DSP for a while, the $80 DIY unit from Parts Express 230-322. †This allowed the addition of a hi pass filter to keep the lowest bass out of the Daytons and some other peak filters to help flatten out the frequency response of the entire system, but the DSP added a fair amount of hum and hiss that detracted from the super black background I am getting without the DSP. †It sounds almost as good just running full range.



I was able to secure the 12" x 12" plywood baffle used for the 6.5 Daytons to the Big Betsy using the six screws that hold the handle in place, so no new holes in the Big Betsy's.


Dan
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1458 - 05/20/20 at 02:10:35
 

I will be testing some new drivers from Lii Audio this summer!

These will be an 18 inch version of the F15's if you can believe that!  Still in development, no release date has been issued.  But as always, I'll keep you updated as things progress.

Steve
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Tooppy
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1459 - 05/20/20 at 09:50:28
 
Dan,

As far as you add another driver you get out of Steve's idea of a full range OB. I don't mean it is not interesting but it becomes either a two or three ways speakers, different beast all together.
While I went with a different "box" so to speak, because OB didn't fit into my room, I believe Steve's OB is an excellent full range option if you have the room.
I think not many people can hear anything above 12k nor below 40, so a good full range is better than anything else if you don't "imagine" music but listen to it.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1460 - 07/04/20 at 15:47:08
 
A lot of Lurking, Not much posting. I have built a couple of the betsy style baffles using Bass Aug. I currently have a Caintuck betsy sized baffle f-15 paired with an H-Frame using an Emm alpha 15. Bi Amping using Rachael for the F-15 and Crown xls1002 for bass cutting in at 125hz.

I found a European Baltic Birch counter top that is 1.75 inches thick (solid wood product) I am wondering what folks here think the Baltic birch would perform for a big betsy ?  I would love to get away from bi-amping. Much appreciated
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1461 - 07/04/20 at 16:02:29
 
Early on Steve made a pair of baffles out of baltic birch.  They are somewhere in that long thread.  A Forum member bought them.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1462 - 07/04/20 at 17:18:53
 
I read where Steve made a pair or 2 from Baltic Birch PLY I am talking about a solid wood 1.75 inches thick. It of course has solid boards glued together in order to achieve the width needed.  Fairly sure this will alter the sound Baltic Ply VS Baltic Solid wood.   I know Baltic PLY is used on a great many Speaker designs due to its void free character.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1463 - 07/04/20 at 19:57:07
 
Oh, sorry I missed that it's solid wood. †In my experience, birch is a fairly dense wood. †I'm not sure what baltic birch is like. †Dense and thick seem to be the preferred woods for the big baffles. †I used 1 1/2" hard maple butcher block with great results.

Try looking up wood densities and see where baltic birch falls. †Good results have been had with oak, maple, cherry and the exotics Steve used. †I bet that birch will be great!
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1464 - 07/05/20 at 00:25:28
 
Took your advice the birch is near identical to oak on the Janka hardness scale. I guess that means its would be a decent wood, now to make some comparisons cost wise. The birch can be done for close to 320.00 for the big betsy 42 X 32............Going to check locally and see where oak and walnut fall. My dream would be Walnut with the oak strip down the center. As is often the case on a fixed income dreams must be tempered with reality  Appreciate the input  Joe
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1465 - 07/05/20 at 17:59:50
 
Walnut isn't as dense, I think.  Gluing up something would be best for cost and getting what you want but I found even using big blanks the build was surprisingly long and involved.  If I were starting from scratch I'd get 8/4 hickory and go from there.  Hickory is the densest domestic wood I could find.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1466 - 07/13/20 at 19:20:40
 
OK so I have the Baltic solid wood and I am at the point of decision time. Can anyone comment on the actual difference in SQ between the ZF15M and the ZF15L either would be on the 1.75" thick Baltic. I have built similar baffles a few times I want this to be my final build. The wood gets expensive on a fixed income. I did build betsy baffles out of the same baltic and they are surprising in SQ but as I expected light in the bass dept.  I am hoping to have a single driver OB that RARELY needs bass Aug. I mainly listen to folk, Singer Songwriter, Jazz, & Acoustic. there are those occasions where things simply MUST have hard hitting bass for that I have a pair of hard hitting DIY sealed subs or H-Frames.  My room is smallish at 13 X 16 so the smaller baffle would fit better however I can use the larger if its a significant difference in bass quality
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1467 - 07/14/20 at 15:35:19
 
Hello Steve can you elaborate a bit on the actual SQ difference between the Medium and the Large baffles.  I am at the cutting point and cant make up my mind. While I know the smaller of the 2 baffles would better suit my listening room (space constraints) I would hate to build the medium only to find out there is a large difference and I am losing a LOT of bass performance.  My plan is to use solid Birch that measures 1.75 inches thick. using a Boiled Linseed Oil finish. Your advice / expertise would be greatly appreciated Wink
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1468 - 07/14/20 at 16:29:39
 
I can't speak for Steve, but my impression is that he did his best to reduce the size of the baffle, more for space/size reasons than for sound. †If you have a big enough baffle blank and enough room space then cut the big baffle.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1469 - 07/14/20 at 16:38:02
 
Thanks for the response. My issue is I only get 1 shot at this. The smaller baffle will be a better fit but I do not want to sacrifice SQ for a better fit. If we are talking about a 5% difference in SQ then its not an issue. If we are talking about a 25% difference then I would always be wondering and having regrets. Unfortunately mind set for me always plays a role in musical enjoyment. Undecided
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1470 - 07/14/20 at 16:47:59
 
One more thing does anyone have a link or any idea where I might find the 8" cast iron handle ?  Thanks in advance
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1471 - 07/14/20 at 16:52:03
 
I bought mine from this guy. †I offered less than list. †Some smoothing is required and they come in the white. †I used a "bluing compound" to blacken mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-9-Large-Rustic-Handles-for-Barn-Door-or-Gate-Pu...
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1472 - 07/14/20 at 16:53:16
 
The never knowing if you go smaller than bigger is like a mind virus! † Cry
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1473 - 07/14/20 at 17:02:05
 
Grin  Aint it the truth
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1474 - 07/14/20 at 17:03:23
 
Thanks for the handles link have them ordered
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1475 - 07/17/20 at 01:55:21
 
Went with the ZF15M build and finished them today. Never would I have believed yhis kind of bass was possible from a single driver. This has opened up a hole new world of music & gear for me now. I just have to figure out where to store oe get rid of 4 15" emenance alpha pro drivers I certainly have no reason to use bass augmentation now. Steve Thanks a ton for this project  I would add a pic if I could figure out how to Undecided
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1476 - 07/17/20 at 02:09:52
 
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monia
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1477 - 07/28/20 at 10:04:21
 
before you were talking about river tables - good projects i have found also here: https://www.epoxidharztisch.de/ you can inspire on their products
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1478 - 07/28/20 at 21:59:20
 

Joespride - congratulations on your ZF15M build!  Here is a link on how to post pictures:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1541104731

We'd love to see them!

Steve
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1479 - 07/29/20 at 04:27:12
 
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1480 - 07/29/20 at 04:41:38
 
I have tried following the instructions to post a pic but it does not seem to work the link goes to the pic not sure what I am missing.

Love the ZF15M Paired with my Rachael straight amp (not the integrated) It is very near the best sound I have had IMHO............
I sweated over building either the L or M I wanted the best sound I could get. In the end the size difference in my room won out. I could not believe the extra 6 inches in height paired with 3 inches width could possibly be a big difference in sound quality. As a bonus the wife is also happy with the look.  
Steve I found your description right on. I dont get a lot of height in the sound stage 5 maybe 6 feet max but every speaker has its limits and I will take the single driver over Bi-amping any day  ;D
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Donnie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1481 - 07/29/20 at 13:18:21
 
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1482 - 07/29/20 at 17:01:18
 
Thank you for posting the pic  Joe  ;)
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Donnie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1483 - 07/29/20 at 17:15:21
 
No Problem.

The next time put the web address between the brackets.
Don't feel bad, everyone misses that part, at least at first.
Put the address where I have the asterisk

img] * [img

I had to modify it to show up!




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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1484 - 07/29/20 at 18:15:49
 


Testing I put the link between the brackets and no PIC  :(
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dennis66
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1485 - 07/29/20 at 20:17:56
 
Did you use a router to cut the hole for the speaker?
If so, was it difficult to cut in rod glued wood?
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1486 - 07/29/20 at 22:12:00
 
I used a router to cut the speaker cut outs and the edges, I took probably 25 or 30 passes per to make the cut and used a 1/2 in shank 2.5 inch long carbide straight flute bit that was basically new. Some chaffing but no real splintering or chunks.  My router is a Bosch 2 1/4 HP Plunge router

I think the biggest thing is patience and take small bites at a time, I could feel and hear when I went to deep the router definitely struggled Shocked
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dennis66
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1487 - 07/29/20 at 22:18:27
 
Thankís! Thatís good information before I start.
I plan to glue two IKEA GERTON (60 mm total thickness) together.

https://www.ikea.com/se/sv/p/gerton-bordsskiva-bok-50106773/

Sorry for the Swedish link.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1488 - 07/29/20 at 22:33:05
 
nice looking stuff

heres a link to what I used a single piece 229.00 and will be enough forr a pair of the ZF15M

https://www.lowes.com/pd/The-Baltic-Butcher-Block-6-ft-Natural-Straight-Butcher-...
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Joey
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1489 - 08/01/20 at 02:10:11
 
I have followed this thread for quite some time now and I'm still not sure if my main listening space would properly accommodate the 15M size. Nevertheless, I must give Steve credit for relaunching my interest in woodworking.

I've been retooling my shop and stocking up some nice planks of 8/4 maple, cherry, and white oak. Been making outdoor chairs and a few other things, but rediscovering the joys of woodworking has been a real treat.

Thanks Steve and all who have chimed in on this thread!!!

BTW, It's also breaking my bank account but may be cheaper than a new bass boat.
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