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Audio Gods are at it again! (Read 7410 times)
Steve Deckert
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Audio Gods are at it again!
06/12/19 at 05:21:01
 

They have taken tonight to reveal a speaker design that has no room loading which means you don't hear your room.

It's exquisite.

Believe it or not it is possible to divide frequencies between two drivers with no crossover by wiring the exact correct complimentary pair of drivers in-series and out-of-phase and locating the face of each in the correct room position.

In this configuration, low frequencies gravitate toward the larger driver and high frequencies gravitate toward the smaller driver. Never do both drivers play the same frequencies with equal amplitude. The circuit is self-regulating using impedance relationships between the two drivers to act as the crossover network.

When the drivers are in-phase the overlapping frequencies between them create a self-resonance in the circuit which brings excessive current into those frequencies and to both drivers, causing both to have a smeared sound, but also loading the room which in turn is loading the drivers creating a 3rd order resonant circuit with the room itself. This is also lowering the impedance and raising the back EMF that the amplifier sees causing it to struggle.... kind of like having to turn the windshield wipers on when it rains.

Out of phase, both the 2nd order resonance between the two drivers is gone, but also the 3rd with the room. This eliminates almost all the back EMF coming from the voice coils not only into each other, but into the outputs of the amplifier.  What little bit of overlapping current and frequencies leak through are cancelled in the air space around the speaker.  

This speaker system would need no bass traps in even the worst rooms, because the speaker does not load the room at room loading frequencies found in the average residential sized spaces.

So, this is what I was taught this evening by those little guys in my head... all I can say is it's a good thing I'm not extra smart because if I was there wouldn't be room for these little guys in my head if you know what I mean.

The system's ability to do what I suggested can be easily demonstrated by flipping the phase at which point there is a 300% exaggeration in the bass response and about and equal reduction in clarity.  It basically turns you room into a disco tech, so it occurred to me that a switch or simple instructions on how to hook it up wrong might be in order for those audiophiles who like to be a little naughty from time to time.

Once again, using Randy's demo disk since I've been using it on multiple systems all winter I can safely say I have never heard a single track on the disk sound better on any other setup. There will be a lot more about all of this coming as summer progresses so stay tuned... This is a teaser just to document the discovery while it's only hours old. The sound is so wide open and crystal clear it's frankly hard to believe!

I'm just stoked about the video I got to watch in my mind of how the frequencies and fields interact inside the wires and coils of the two drivers and then how the air in the room completes a local feedback loop between the two coils and how the room boundaries interaction completes a global feedback loop on top of it all which is why so many speakers, the vast majority in fact, sound like speakers in a room.

With these problems completely eliminated the sound is like listening to headphones with the most insane 3D imaging and sound-stage you've ever heard. In fact headphones don't get it either now that I compare the two sounds in my mind... the phones if they are closed back are just miniature rooms, and sadly if they are open back they have an unnatural ambience from your actual room. Just put your hands over the open back of the phones without music playing to hear what is being added to the sound.

Anyway, some really cool shit is happening around here in the greater Decware family and if the UFO's want to hi-jack this system they're going to need anti-gravity and a shrink-ray gun at a minimum. ; ). I'll be camped out in front of this new speaker system for months in secret with my carbine wiring my brain around this new sound.  Of course it doesn't hurt that this comes right after the CSP325 is completed and now paired with the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode amplifier...  It's the combination of all of the over the top Decware stuff finding it's own cymatic pattern of perfection.


God bless us all!

Steve
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Bottlehead
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #1 - 06/12/19 at 07:24:39
 
So, Steve...woofers forward/tweeters back? Tweeters forward/woofers back? Or am I misunderstanding what you are describing?

Randy
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lazb
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #2 - 06/12/19 at 16:52:06
 
sounds like a ZEN other worldly kind of thing! Probably be one of those, "you have to hear it and you still will not understand it!" kind of things.   Shocked
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Brian
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #3 - 06/15/19 at 03:14:04
 
I am excited!
Cymatic patterns, Hans Jenny, neat stuff.  

Brian
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4krow
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #4 - 06/18/19 at 01:23:33
 
 I heard of something that reminds me of this idea 'maybe'. Seems it was to be put out by Fried many years ago. He stated that his device could eliminate crossovers in speaker systems of most types, anyway. Never heard anymore about it, and have been wondering ever since.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #5 - 06/25/19 at 05:01:23
 

I have made some related observations in the Decware Development thread located here: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1408725911/763#763
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Brian
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #6 - 06/13/21 at 05:09:59
 
Steve, This in-series and out-of-phase project seems to have been side tracked by arrival of the Lii full range speakers.
Have you revisited this?

Brian
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #7 - 06/14/21 at 03:30:09
 
Hi Brian,

Indeed, when the F15 arrived on the scene there was no longer any need for bass baffles and two less baffles is a lot simpler.  That said, if I weren't doing this for a living and just went back to having my own listening room which is a nice way of saying only one speaker system set up, I would revisit it, yes.  I was turning the modal pattern of the room inside-out which creates some unusual opportunities and results that would be impossible with digital correction or any other process.  It's pretty esoteric which generally suits me well and I have been an imaging freak for a long time.

Steve
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Brian
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #8 - 06/14/21 at 03:58:26
 
It certainly does seem interesting.

Steve said:  "I have been an imaging freak for a long time."
Ha Ha, Yes I have noticed that about you!

Brian
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #9 - 06/14/21 at 05:20:23
 

Well, you have to understand where I came from.  



HiFi for me started out with my dads monaural console record player. It had speakers on each side angled at about 30 degrees in each direction, 2 per side and then a pair of bass drivers. All in mono. It sounded great.

He only had 20 records, none of which I actually liked. Nevertheless I took it in my room when it was no longer welcome in the family room for whatever reason (lack of use - wrong color). When I listened to it, believe it or not, I always laid on the floor with my head under the console looking up inside the bottom at the glowing tubes and speakers. It sounded best there, and I had no issues with that. My mom thought I was weird but if you think about with any real reflection, you'll know I was right.

Then I got my first real stereo, a class A solid state 17 watt EICO kit-built receiver without the tuner section, and a pair of BOSE 301 loudspeakers.



And yes, they rotted just like these in the picture.  Believe it or not I spent a year hanging out in the back audio room at the local music shop back when there was a turntable in the middle of the room and a panel with 200 buttons on it to select amps and speakers...  They had everything from Altec Stonehedge to Bose. The Bose were on the short wall in the very corners, next to ceiling, on a carpeted shelf that wrapped the room only 16 inches from the ceiling. These speakers at the time (1974) had a single 8 inch paper cone driver with no crossover, and a pair of paper cone tweeters with a single capacitor. You have to believe me, they crushed everything in the room no matter what amps or receivers were used, and did it week after week after week.  I had to have them. So I saved up and got a pair - and mounted them in my room exactly the same way they were in the store -- and with exactly the same results. It was dynamics and frequency balance that was mastered to a degree that putting a speaker actually in the space instead of it defining the boundary was seriously disappointing.

The only thing it didn't have was sound stage depth.  The sound was projected at you, horn loaded by the room to ceiling corners.  I had no clue there even was such as thing as a sound stage, or that speakers could disappear.  No idea.  AND, I had by far the best sounding stereo of any of my friends so I thought what else was there. I was happy as hell. Then it all came crashing down one day when I...

Walked into a hi-end stereo shop with a dedicated room and a single pair of tower speakers standing out 6 to 8 feet from the walls and heard my first 3D sound stage. I was so wrecked from that it changed my life. Don't believe me, Google my name and see what I do for a living!

Steve

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Brian
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #10 - 06/15/21 at 06:21:05
 
I enjoyed that story!
I have often wondered what your journey was. Thanks for telling.

Brian
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #11 - 06/16/21 at 01:22:50
 
Great story Steve. My buddy had 901's way back in the mid 80's before we got into the stereo biz. My wife made him macrame speaker hangers for his 901's, crank'em up and they would sway in the breeze...from the sound hitting the front wall. Played hell on imaging... but loud. Bought my dad some 301's when he needed speakers, he wasn't hot on my Fulton FMI 80's or 100's that I had. Go figure. Loving it, happy listening. Chris
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #12 - 06/17/21 at 16:17:14
 
Steve, how is the project coming along?
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #13 - 06/27/21 at 05:10:47
 

The four baffle project is on hold due to the low sales potential and overall complexity.  You know me, I enjoy going a little hardcore when it comes to audio but some of it isn't all that realistic from a marketability stand point... it would be if we didn't suffer from limited production being a small company, but being what it is, we have to pick our battles. When you can get something small to sound full and satisfying at a modest price without requiring a subwoofer or bass augmentation everyone is happy.  So right now we are working on some simpler concept speakers that we should be able to show at least two of the three designs by the October DECFEST in 2021.

Steve
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