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Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls? (Read 5297 times)
Doug
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Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
05/09/19 at 19:39:49
 
Has anyone heard of a CSP3 with smooth action controls for line out?  If not, is it even possible?
Doug
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #1 - 05/10/19 at 00:22:44
 
Are you referring to the "stepped" controls that come on the CSP3 stock?  I'm not sure what advantage there would be to a smooth control since these aren't really stepped attenuators.  Although they have steps, they can be set in between the detents to fine tune the balance.  

Not sure if this is what you meant.
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ZLC
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Doug
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #2 - 05/10/19 at 14:43:06
 
Oh, I didn’t realize that the voltage output was changed in between steps.  That might work for me.....I‘ll try it this evening.  The reason for my question is that when I am using my LFD amp (that doesn’t have a volume control for each channel like my Torii Jr has) there is no way to control balance.  I have intentionally avoided dual volume controls for decades, but having had them on my Torii Jr for the past year and a half, I find that I can’t live without them.  Badly balanced recordings can be easily adjusted, and imbalances caused by tube issues can also be adjusted.  I’m wondering if there is even room for some type of smooth action line out controls on a 25th CSP3.  
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ZROCK2 (on order)
CSP3 25th Mods Plus
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #3 - 05/10/19 at 15:56:36
 
The detent attenuators likely could be changed for smooth but these work well for me since they are easy to put to the same level and then tweaked between the detents as required.  I often have a slight channel imbalance (seems to come and go) that requires up to a full click on one side or the other.  Half and quarter clicks aren't a problem.  One thing I did do though was put small knobs with index lines on the posts so it's easy to turn the knobs and see where I am on each.
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ZLC
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Doug
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #4 - 05/14/19 at 01:40:44
 
Archie, I have experienced the coming and going channel imbalance phenomenon for years, and I’ve always thought it was my faulty hearing, or my warped mind, or my less than perfect system, or possibly all three.  It’s really good to know I’m not alone in this perplexing issue!

Thanks for the additional information on the CSP3’s output flexibility.  I’ll contact Steve some time this week to check on having smooth line out controls installed.
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ZROCK2 (on order)
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Pat McSween
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #5 - 05/15/19 at 16:51:44
 
Hi, just lurking here. What size is the shaft on the op pots?
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #6 - 05/16/19 at 00:37:22
 
I think they are 1/4" diameter.
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ZLC
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Tripwr1964
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #7 - 06/01/19 at 12:54:44
 
i like the steps then i know where i am at by the number of clicks.

for my amp i am 2 clicks back from 100%.

inputs are always 100% unless using headphones
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Doug
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #8 - 06/04/19 at 04:02:24
 
When driving my Torii Jr with the CSP3-25 I very much like the stepped output controls, as the Jr has a smooth volume control for each channel.  It’s when driving my solid state LFD NCSE amp that I would like see smooth action output controls on the CSP3-25.  I talked with Steve a few days ago and told him I can’t live without dual volume controls now that I have had them on my Torii Jr the past 18 months.  Steve just laughed and told me that many people feel the same once they have used a piece of equipment with dual smooth action volume controls.  He also told me that he would be happy to change out the stepped output controls for infintely adjustable controls!
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ZROCK2 (on order)
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PAP Quintets (Horn1, Vox 1.6, Decware FRX2)
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #9 - 04/30/20 at 01:29:45
 
Hi Adam. I think the slip over knobs were a good idea. I just got my CSP3, and as far as I can tell, the only way to reference is to count clicks. I sure would like a reference point. And with my arthritis, something easier to grip would be good. Do you remember where you got the knobs, or did you make them?
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #10 - 04/30/20 at 02:27:43
 
I don't remember.  They came from one of those parts sites that sell everything.  They are black metal with index lines on them.  I got smaller (shorter) ones for the 4 balance pots and a taller one for the master volume.  They are small in diameter so they don't interfere with the tubes.
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0128041410.jpg

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Posts: 1408
Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #11 - 04/30/20 at 03:06:18
 
Nice!  I’ve been on one site looking for some. I was figuring black myself. Yeah, looks like no larger than 3/4” diameter to avoid the tubes.

This thing sounds fantastic already, by the way. And that’s without even experimenting with settings yet.

Thanks,

Geno
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #12 - 04/30/20 at 03:41:57
 
I think mine are more like 1/2" D.  I keep the output (closest to front) at 100% and the input around 7 or 8.  Steve recommended turning the amp volume to 100% and using the CSP3 master volume to control volume but I prefer to keep the CSP3 at about 3/4 and use the ZMA volume.

I've never completely understood what these knobs do!

Oh, I just found the knob invoice.  They came from Digi-Key Corp.  .50" diameter and .250" shaft.

And this might be of interest:  (Steve posted this a year or so ago)


SP3 INPUT VOLTAGE CHART w/ 5U4 and 6N1P-EB

Note:  Outputs set to full, Volume set to full.  Input pots set to zero and charted through their range.

2V INPUT SIGNAL, 528Hz

Position =  Volts
0 = 0V
1 = 156mV
2 = 492mV
3 = 1.53V
4 = 2.8V
5 = 4.0V
6 = 5.1V
7 = 12.22V
8 = 25.0 V
9 = 32.0 V
10 = 32.0V

1V INPUT SIGNAL, 528Hz

Position = Volts
0 = 0V
1 = 60mV
2 = 200mV
3 = 552mV
4 = 1.05V
5 = 1.5V
6 = 1.9V
7 = 4.8V
8 = 7.7V
9 = 10.12V
10 = 10.12V

The max input voltage with the input control set all the way up is 3.38V.  At that point slight clipping is seen at the full 35V output.  If you trim the master volume down and the output control down, the distortion will become inaudible but it will still be there, just at 15 times lower level.  That means you can shove 10 volts into it but it will always sound better set to 3.38 or less.

Keep in mind these figures are with the CSP3 connected to my test gear which is 178KOhms so the output voltage will vary somewhat into different loads.  Also keep in mind the 120V at the outlet and the tubes you use will effect these results making them go up or down.

Steve
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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ZMA (25th A mods)
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Posts: 1408
Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #13 - 04/30/20 at 04:13:34
 
Man! This is good info to have for sure. That sheds a little light on what’s happening as adjustments are made.  I’m used to adjusting the volume at my amp too, and will probably keep it that way.

Thanks for the knob info. I’ll see about getting some ordered. Looks like 1/2” D will be much better.

Best,

Geno
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #14 - 05/05/20 at 16:57:09
 
All of this discussion got me looking at my CSP3 settings and the chart last night.  My new settings have the inputs at 7 (were 8), outputs still at 10 and the master volume now at full (was 3/4).  That gives me a usable range on my ZMA volume of about 1/2.  By Steve's chart I'm only at about 5 volts out of the CSP3.  My goal is to get the maximum out of the CSP3 and to squeeze it back down with my ZMA.  The 1 volt input from my ZP3/ZMC1 limits me quite a bit.

The CSP3 master volume is a bit of an unknown to me.  I assume that it goes from 0 to the maximum for a given input and output knob settings.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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ZMA (25th A mods)
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Geno
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Without music, life
would be a mistake.
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Posts: 1408
Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #15 - 05/06/20 at 00:46:09
 
After a lot of experimenting, and reading a post from Lon about how he has his pre settings (his DAC is similar to mine) the first thing I tried was to set the DAC volume to 95%. Then, I set my amp volume to 95% also. This results in the main volume on my CSP3 ending up at 12 (60%) with the rear knobs at 6, and the front knobs at 8.  And when I switch to phono, the only difference is turning the pre master volume down to about 10 (50%).

I realize that, by the numbers, this limits the impact of the CSP3, but to my ears, this is much better than cranking the CSP3 way up, and controlling the volume with the amp - by far.

I will add that I never listen over 85db, so more volume would probably impact these settings.

I’m definitely not a “numbers” guy. I trust my ears to tell me what sounds more natural.
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Archie
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Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #16 - 05/06/20 at 00:57:45
 
I would have thought your DAC would put more voltage into your CSP3 than  your phono but you seem to be indicating the opposite.
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ZLC
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Posts: 1408
Re: Infinitely Adjustable Line Out Controls?
Reply #17 - 05/06/20 at 01:09:00
 
You’re right. I don’t have a logical answer.
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