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New, Introduction and request for guidance... (Read 9227 times)
Christine
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New, Introduction and request for guidance...
02/23/19 at 18:57:58
 
Hi all, I am Christine and newish to your world, but not this world. Being later in years, I enjoy the simple pleasures, and for me, one of those is the Blues.

I am a math and physics teacher, nerd, sometime woodworker, and know just enough about circuits and audio to know that I don't know what you all do. However, I appreciate having read the many white papers that are present here and the honesty (that is not wrapped up in marketing) that if I so wanted, I could perhaps build my own Zen-ish amp, apart from your custom coils. Alas, though, I am not so inclined...

Mr. Deckert, I find your amps to be aesthetically beautiful (which is important to me) and their low power also appeals to my ears.

That, all being said, I listen to music in two ways: through a pair of Klipsch Reference 14 bookshelf speakers (they are 90dB - I had to look that up) or a pair of Sony monitor headphones (which Ive had for decades and have no intention of "upgrading" and have no idea on their impedance or sensitivity). Currently my source is a single iPod (actually an old iPhone, I no longer use, except for music). Sorry to the purists among you, I know this is probably sacrilegious. I do have vinyl, but I prefer the cleaner (no-pop) sounds from the iPod.

My "sound room" is my office, and I listen to music quietly in the background when working. I use headphones when I want to tune everything else out and relax. So I guess you could describe my listening room as "near field" as I understand that term. Also I have very limited space for audio equipment, so size is a concern.

So that brings me to my questions: Amp? I like the simplicity of the SE84UFO2 The one with the wood base. But, alas, it has no option for a headphone jack. I know I could plug my headphones directly into my iPod, but I honestly don't like to fiddle with the wires to do that. I would rather just be able to switch a switch between speakers or headphones. And I could also build a switch box with load balancing, but again, that's a kludgy solution, that I am sure degrades the sound of your wonderfully simple circuits, so why not just get a single piece of equipment that can do that from the start?

I like the simplicity of the SE34I.5, and especially it's price point. However I feel that it's footprint is a bit bigger than what I am looking for.

Lastly the Mini Torii (is that pronounced: "Tor II or "Torree"?) seems a bit smaller than the SE34, So I suppose that is an option, but again the cost is significantly more than its simpler cousins.

Yes, the 25th Anniversary amplifier is both extremely beautiful and I applaud Mr. Deckert for the incredible power supply on that unit; however, the price point is a bit out of my range for casual spending, albeit what a conversation piece it would be!

Comments, suggestions, experience are all welcomed...I am here to learn...

thanks for reading and (in advance) for being patient with me,
Christine
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Ace-Tone
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #1 - 02/23/19 at 19:13:27
 
Welcome Christine,  Mr. Deckert (Steve) can build you a headphone connection that will attach to the Speaker posts of the UFO2. Send him a message, or call. He can help!
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Showme
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #2 - 02/23/19 at 19:32:58
 
Welcome to the forum. The Zen UFO2 that you like will drive your speakers even though they are not particularly efficient. I'm doing it in a second system. The iPhone can be plugged into the amp with the proper connection. Very available on ePrey. Ace is correct for sure. Just contact Steve, he's accessible and will be very helpful. He'll get you set for headphones on the amp.
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Christine
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #3 - 02/23/19 at 19:59:58
 
Hello, and thank you both...

Currently, I use a simple very short cord 1/8" jack to RCA plugs to connect the iPod to the stereo. I am assuming I can do the same with the Zen UFO2? Or does the iPod's output signal need to be amplified before the Zen's inputs? I listen at very low volumes, so I am not overly concerned about clipping, or do I misunderstand your advice?

As for my speakers, I have had them for several years. They were not expensive, but they are wonderfully small, and really do sound nice.
Plus, they fit in my bookshelf perfectly.

Do I have better options for speakers? Mind you, they really do need to be small.

I will contact Mr. Deckert (I am more formal, unless he does not like that formality...)

While I am not new to analogue (I built Heathkits as a child), I did perhaps make a mistake in purchasing a small very inexpensive tube amp, that while it looks/sounds nice-ish, basically thermally overloads after a couple hours of use and shuts off. Sometimes I can hear the degradation in sound before it happens. It is annoying and, well, I am looking for something that will never experience that short coming. I "found" Decware by chance, and over the last couple of weeks of off and on reading and researching other options, I really like what I see here. It seems many of you would never purchase audio equipment without hearing it first. I guess I am more trusting, and well, the information I have read lends me to trust it significantly more than standard ad copy and marketing.
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #4 - 02/23/19 at 20:00:44
 
Welcome Christine,
 Definitely give Steve a call, you'll really have a feel for things after your talk and he will set you in the right direction, no question. Good luck with your new amp, whatever it will end up to be, you'll have made a great choice.
Best,
Scott
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #5 - 02/23/19 at 21:45:57
 
Christine, I hooked my iPhone X up to the SE84UFO2 with cable like you presently use and the amp will reach near field volume that should be satisfactory to you. I’ve been using it at my cabin with the Trapezium speakers that are also on the Decware website. They are 89dB so not considered real efficient but they are plenty loud for my tiny log cabin. I use the Zen 25th Anniv in my main system at home now. I just happen to have both amps here at the house today. I mentioned the Traps because I also needed a small footprint at the cabin. They are small and really pretty great.
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funch
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #6 - 02/24/19 at 04:40:08
 
Welcome Christine. I listen exclusively with headphones, and as of yesterday am on my second Decware jewel, an SE84UFO; the base model.

I can tell you from experience that 'phones sound the best when connected as speakers; directly to the speaker connections. The headphones need to have a male 4-pin XLR plug, referred to as a balanced plug. Then you need to make a pigtail connection using a female 4-pin XLR with four wires connecting to the binding posts.

Connecting is this way gives a much better sound that using the standard TRS connection.

It is also crucial that you connect a wire wound 8 ohm resistor rated at least 3 watts across the binding posts to give the proper load to the output transformers. If you don't it's adios to them.
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Christine
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #7 - 02/24/19 at 16:23:27
 
Ok, wow, thank you for your advice. So I understand from reading about this SET that the two outputs do not share a common ground (thus allowing them to be run in series). I guess this would necessitate the 4 pin XLR. However my headphones have a single ¼” stereo jack, that shares common.

Just thinking out loud, I suppose using a ¼ plug, I’ll lose the stereo signal?
What am I missing?
I guess I will need to email Mr Deckert and see what I will need to be able to use my old headphones. I will have to see if I can get their impedance, so the amp sees 8 ohms.
Thanks again...you are all solidifying my decision to go with a Decware amplifier.  :)


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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #8 - 02/24/19 at 16:39:18
 
Christine, you should be able to use the 1/4" plug and get stereo, calling Steve is a great idea, he'll set you on the right path and can likely make up a "harness" to use.

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funch
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #9 - 02/25/19 at 00:47:58
 
Yes, Steve would be the best one for advice, for sure.
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Denizen
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #10 - 02/25/19 at 16:30:14
 
The left and right grounds will be joined together on the 1/4 in. TRS. so you will have stereo output. The resistors needed will also be added.
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #11 - 02/26/19 at 18:59:27
 
Christine, if it is any comfort, I too purchased my Decware gear sight unseen and sound unheard. I discovered Decware by accident. Really liked what I read. And finally one day just said “eff it” and ordered it. After receiving my gear my immediate regret was not discovering Decware 20 years ago.

If you and Steve are not able to come to a satisfactory headphone solution for the SE84UFO amp, have you considered getting a Zen Head for your headphone listening? Steve designed that headphone amp to sound very analog-like. When I’m not near my main system, I use my Zen Head with an iPod and it sounds very nice.

Ps. You mentioned emailing Steve, but I think the volume of email he receives is a bit overwhelming – Steve seems to really prefer telephone calls for addressing inquiries. I’ve never had any trouble reaching him via telephone.
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #12 - 02/26/19 at 23:49:57
 
What about a Taboo IV?  Or has this been discussed?
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Christine
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #13 - 02/28/19 at 13:08:04
 
Archie, thank you so much for the simple suggestion.

The Taboo IV is one that I did not consider...but, thank you, because now I am. This is built to handle both speaker and headphone, would not be a kludge in that respect. It has "balancing" which I think I would enjoy, because my speakers are not ideally located in my office one is much closer than the other. Plus it has the ammeters, which harken back to my early days in the physics lab...oddly I find this a very attractive feature of these amplifiers. I have learned that I am able to request the vintage Western Electrics, even though that is not an explicit option.

I would not be able to take advantage of "lucid mode," unless I rewired my headphones. I suppose this could be a fun project. Since they are long out of warranty, I think this would be an easy fix. (I did look at the recommended headphone: the Audeze LCD-2: OMG, $1000 for a pair of headphones!!!! That's not happening! They must sound and feel magical; I suppose it's like any high end piece of equipment...the law of diminishing returns applies: Double the price for a minor incremental gain in performance.

Anyway, thank you all for your thoughtful suggestions and guidance. I must commend Decware for doing this forum. I am especially pleased that Mr. Deckert responds here on occasion, but also that no information seems to be censored (it's not just Decware equipment here) It is really solidifying my decision to go this route.

best,
Christine
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #14 - 02/28/19 at 16:00:10
 
Christine,

If you either reach out to Lon or search his posts, he has used the Taboo quite a bit as a speaker amp and seems to love it.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #15 - 02/28/19 at 16:22:22
 

Hi Christine!  Welcome to the family.

Unlike the vast majority of tube amplifiers, the SE84UFO/UFO2 that you first mentioned can not blow itself up because it doesn't have enough power to fry it's own oversized output transformers.  That means you can operate it without loudspeakers connected and the only thing that will suffer is the output tubes themselves, not the amp.  

To use it with headphones we usually make an adapter using a 1/4 inch TRS jack with speaker wires coming out the back that can be connected directly to the amplifier.  Inside this jack we place a resistor in series to attenuate the power and ensure a jet black background.  Usually this value is 150 ohms, but can be as high as 1K Ohm depending on the efficiency of the headphone.

That said, the most logical choice for you would be the Taboo, which is purpose built to do exactly what you want.  The current model requires headphones with a balanced headphone cable with a 4-pin XLR jack on the end.  I do also have a new Taboo MK3 that never got sold before we switched to the present MK4 model.  The Taboo MK3 actually has 4 headphone jacks.  Two are 4 pin XLR jacks, one "high output" one "low output" and two are standard 1/4 TRS jacks also having one "high output" and one "low output".  This was done so that you don't have to worry about headphone efficiency.

If you want the Taboo MK3 I still have, call me and I'll give it to you for $1795.00 / lifetime warranty.

Thanks,

Steve
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #16 - 02/28/19 at 16:34:26
 

Regarding your comment about $1000 headphones and diminishing returns is spot on.  Also, headphone prices have gone way beyond that price in recent years, so now it's just getting stupid.  It is especially stupid when we consider that it is the headphone amplifier that makes the MAIN difference as to how good a given pair of phones will sound.  That is to say I would have far better sound from a pair of $250 headphones and a Decware headphone amp that I would from a $1000+ set of phones on todays typical solid state equipment.

The other day someone off the street walked into the Decware listening room and commented that those were some great sounding speakers... and since that was where the sound was coming from, the speakers got all the credit.  It's the same mentality that drives the market to buy ultra expensive headphones.  Many should just get a better headphone amp and hear the headphones they have for the first time.

The one rule that never waivers in this hobby is that you never hear the fidelity of your system rise beyond the weakest link in the audio chain. The challenge of the hobby is to try to find out which link in the chain is handicapping everything else and then replace it.



Smiley

Steve
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Christine
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #17 - 03/01/19 at 13:38:58
 
Wow, thank you Steve (Mr. Deckert....lol) Your offer is very gracious and I will be giving you a call...but I am still leaning toward the newer Taboo, it seems easier to operate and although against my financial better sense I anticipate having this a long time.

I am assuming that a common ground headphone set can be split into two separate "balanced" signals by a simple rewire, but I will discuss that with you...I suppose it may change the impedance depending on whether they are series or parallel now. I would guess parallel, but again I don't know enough about these devices yet. So if my headphones are now 63 ohms, each individually they would be double that...or am I missing something.

Thanks again
Christine
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #18 - 03/02/19 at 03:57:53
 

Hi Christine,

Yes, a common ground set of headphones can be re-wired with a 4 conductor headphone cable terminated into a 4 pin XLR jack.  Having the grounds separated between the channels means that the ground conductor no longer has to carry twice the current as the signal conductor so the sound tends to get better.

The impedance does not change nor anything else.  Everything remains exactly the same except the ground for each channel is separated.  63 ohms btw, would be right in the Taboo's area of strengths.  

Hope that helps!

Steve
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #19 - 03/08/19 at 03:10:08
 
Hello Christine,
I do not know enough to comment on the important matters of your quest, but as for your other question,

Torii is pronounced "Torree". It is the gate to a Japanese temple. Passing through which, one goes from the mundane realm to the divine.  

I thank you for teaching mathematics. It is a beautiful study.  

Brian
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Re: New, Introduction and request for guidance...
Reply #20 - 03/12/19 at 23:15:03
 
Welcome Christine, and thank you for initiating this thread that like so many others, becomes yet another great lesson from the community, and Steve himself. You just don't get this support from very many manufacturers these days (if any)....this stuff is precious. Can't wait to see what you end up with. Cheers.
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