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DAC/Music Server - No laptop (Read 26824 times)
Geno
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DAC/Music Server - No laptop
01/12/19 at 19:42:47
 
All, I’m looking to change the way I play my music files.

I have a CD Transport that I’m happy with. What I’d really like is a combination DAC/music server.  I’m old school and do not want a laptop in my music system. And I don’t want to stream music either. Just play CD’s or music files that I already have or download from HDTracks, etc.

I’ve looked at the Mytek and Benchmark DAC’s and love them, but wouldn’t I need a music server with those?

I have an SE84UFO with no preamp, and want to continue to control the volume with it if possible.

I’m looking to keep the price of this under $3000 if possible.

Thanks in advance for your help.



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ScottNC
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #1 - 01/12/19 at 19:53:41
 
Check out Small Green Computer, give Andrew a call Monday if anything catches your eye, he's a good guy to deal with, he's a member on the forum too.
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com

Best,
Scott
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #2 - 01/12/19 at 20:01:59
 

I've not played with any of them, but this is the one people mention often.

https://www.aurender.com/page/home

And PS Audio is supposed to be working on one, but I bet it's well past your $3000 budget.

There are many ways to do this, so hopefully someone here who's gone down that path can offer suggestions, otherwise you'll need to check in a forum like Computer Audiophile. Just be careful what you say, they tend to attack people who think cables and caps make a difference, and many believe bits-are-bits.  :P
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Geno
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #3 - 01/12/19 at 20:25:10
 
The goal is NO computer.
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Scott in mich
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #4 - 01/12/19 at 21:01:02
 
Wouldn't the Brooklyn Bridge do what you want? It has a usb for external storage, so you could put music files on a usb drive, plug it in and away you go.

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Geno
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #5 - 01/12/19 at 21:44:07
 
It sure would, Scott. I was not aware of a model with a USB plug for external hard drive. Just might be the ticket! Thanks!
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will
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #6 - 01/12/19 at 22:16:11
 
Geno said: "I’ve looked at the Mytek and Benchmark DAC’s and love them, but wouldn’t I need a music server with those?"

Yes, these are just the DAC (digital Analog converter) part, so you would need a server as well (possibly integrated), be it a quality computer for audio, a laptop, or specially made server. With many of these, you would need some sort of display. I think a lot of folks use a iPad or phone to run and view servers. I have no experience with all-in-one setups, some likely having little displays, but feel sure I would prefer a bigger monitor of some sort personally.

I am old school too, but using a Mac Mini with a display, keyboard and mouse, and tucked away in a cabinet. I have a special computer audio set up, with a highly tuned OS (much better than stock), tuned player software, a specific external drive good for music (quiet), a really good (for audio) USB cable and power cable, etc.

I went to the Mini mainly for sonic reasons, but I have grown to really like the format. I was surprised, over handling CDs, to prefer it, not just for sound and tune-ability, but ease of use. After getting used to the interfaces, searching ability, organization abilities etc, I grew to really appreciate the interface. BTW, in my experience (and many more who have gone there) you will generally not get as good a sound from a laptop as from a stand-alone tuned Mini or other high quality and dedicated audio server refined with listening tests.

Like the bits-are-bits belief system, lots of folks think computers are computers. I am guessing many self-contained, all-in-one servers have "computers" (at least of sorts) running things too. And for music, with potential for lots of minute issues with how streams of data are taken apart, moved, and put back together, these can be heard. Potential issues include electronic analog noise carried with the data, and jitter and digital noise that can be filtered in different ways depending on designer (and often user) choices. Artifacts reveal as messed up timing in the data stream or noise, or maybe even modified data bits other than jitter???

Disturbance to sound is generally harshness and smearing, or masking to hide these, causing the attitude about digital. This of course happens to lesser degrees with care for design and engineering to avoid these artifacts, and how successful attempts to "solve" them are. So like CD players and transports, server setups can create various degrees of "digititus," from relatively inaudible, to relatively offensive depending on how good the server is designed and implemented.

This is not to be scary, but to point very roughly to why great servers and DACs are friendly and engaging...and so-so ones, not so. Revealing systems make this more clear, but even if a system can't reveal these differences easily, quality digital is still easier to enjoy. You can get decent sound from a lot of computers or servers, but to get deep, it seems it needs to be carefully designed for high quality audio, using good parts and sound testing....or like the Mini, a good foundation for adapting to using purely for quality audio.

I am guessing that the best audio models of Minis are sort of inadvertently good at audio because of other design choices. Small size without a lot of fan noise generally requires more efficient parts that tend to be cooler and quieter. The heavy/solid aluminum case is great for vibration and cooling, making fans less needed, but also a good electronic noise shield...And no monitor eliminates any noise generated by having a monitor in-computer.

When I first tested computer audio here, I used a Macbook Pro because we already had one, but also thinking battery power would be a good thing. Later, after hearing from my Tranquility DAC developer how much difference the computer used, and how it is set up, can effect refinements of sound fairly notably, I followed his recommendation for a Mini. He, his design team, and many associated audio developers he trusted the ears of agreed the Mini, if tuned optimally, was the best and most cost effective high-end audio server platform. After many conversations with him, I could tell we agreed on what we heard and wanted sound-wise, so I trusted this. I thought the Mini sounded better right off, only using iTunes system adjustments. But once optimized more fully for audio, it was quite clearly more revealing and musical.

Contributing to this audio preference for me, is transparent, in-computer EQ, working directly on the music files before leaving the Mac Mini Server. I use this to fine-tune for room issues, a bunch of pretty small adjustments a big refinement here. I also really like many other fine-tuning abilities in the OS and player software, as well as choices for the most synergistic cables, etc that can refine the sound.

Not generally having much of this tuning ability with a CD player or transport, software settings can seem complicated. But once setup (especially with advise from someone with good ears who has already done it successfully) it can be pretty easy. Being able to seriously tune the server to your room and tastes can be pretty amazing. And once set...no need to go back and adjust unless you want, leaving a nice software interface that varies depending on software used, but can be pretty nice.

Also, the best player softwares can be great sounding without fine tuning. I just want more system specific tuning myself. But I am all about getting all I can from my system/room, the last 5% really important to my listening pleasure.


This is not to say you should get an audio computer setup, but to illustrate the basic story of some things to look into when researching a server and DAC. As with anything else, for great audio, to me, it all matters.

Good Luck, and I look forward to hearing what you end up with and impressions!

Will
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StanleyG
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #7 - 01/13/19 at 03:59:27
 
Of the few player/streamers I have experimented with (Bryston BDP-1, BDP-Pi, Bluesound Node2, and now Roon Nucleus), all happily read files from attached hard drives or thumb drives (as well as from network-attached servers).  Pretty sure all similar devices will access attached drives.  But they all also involve some computer-ish interface in order to control what plays and when.  All but Bluesound require an external DAC.

So the question becomes what software/hardware does one use to control things?

Manufacturers typically include an in-house software solution (for their own hardware), but it still requires at least a web browser on some other device.  There are other ways to skin the cat (of playback control), but (afaik) they all require a smartphone, tablet, or full-on computer be involved. This is where an audio-optimized computer (as others have suggested) becomes desirable.  Or very good eyesight and delicate fingers operating controls (if any) on the front of the player itself.

Roon (roonlabs.com) seems to be the current Big Dog in third-party music interfaces in that most every hardware and software maker integrates with it in some way.  But many hardware players/streamers seem to be 'end-points' only requiring the 'Roon Core' and 'Roon Remote' to run on a dedicated computer or a server capable of it.  I just switched from both a Mac mini and a QNAP server to a single box Roon-built Nucleus server that does what they did and arguably better.  Still controlled from an iPad or iPhone.
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jslateiv
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #8 - 01/13/19 at 17:13:49
 
Auralic  G1, Aries, or Mini.  Listed from most expensive to least.  I personally use a Mini connected to my PSA DSD Sr..  The Aries series does however have a very good quality built in DAC and allows for internal  SSD mounting and connects wirelessly or wired to your network.   I absolutely love mine.   It works very similarly to Bluesound Node 2 mentioned below.  The Auralic OS interface is very good and intuitive.   Unfortunately they are not making the Mini anymore but you can still find them used for ~$300 here and there.   I believe that the new G1 (which is replacing the Aries) is around $2K..
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Stefan
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #9 - 01/13/19 at 17:49:14
 
Has anyone used the new Mac Mini? Looks like it would be powerful enough to do conversion from PCI->DSD for higher bitrates, like 512.
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Geno
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #10 - 01/13/19 at 22:58:15
 
Thanks everyone for the great responses!
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
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beowulf
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #11 - 01/15/19 at 07:59:28
 
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beowulf
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #12 - 01/16/19 at 03:10:28
 
You should try to get over the psychological ideologies of having a PC in your stereo setup.  IMO, you miss a lot of cool visual aspects of listening to music such as album artwork, liner notes etc. by forgoing any type of monitor.  Computer Audio is fairly easy once you dip your toes into it.

There's a picture on roon's website that really sizes it up for me … for instance this:


Compared to this:


There is really no competition for me.  In the day of digital downloads, we have no medium to hold in our hands any longer so I feel that we lose an aspect of music collecting.  For instance, when I get a vinyl album I drop the record on, grab the album cover and read it front to back while listening and it brings an additional dimension to the listening session that you just don't get with a track listing on a tiny screen from your stereo rack.

Software programs like Roon and JRiver are meant to be seen and not just heard and can bring that other dimension into your listening area. If you don't want to use your laptop than get a dedicated HTPC/Mac (that doesn't leave your audio rack) and a monitor so you can enjoy the visual aspects of your music as well.
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MarioEd
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #13 - 01/17/19 at 23:09:24
 
To add my two cents. All the servers whether they are a manufactured stand alone, part of an all in one server/dac combo or something diy are specialized computers and most of them are using some variety of Linux for their OS though quite a few diy use Windows or Mac OS and add the cataloging/playback software of choice

The manufactured servers may use a proprietary software for cataloging & playing back music though including Roon and/or HQPlayer is becoming more common.

With the advent of small relatively inexpensive computers like the Intel NUC series and Raspberry Pi's it's become much easier to diy a server that would satisfy most folks needs. Controlling them from a tablet is easy, though the use of a monitor & keyboard is pretty essential for the initial setup. For me personally a smart phone is just too small.

Roon has the ROCK version of their software which can be installed fairly easily onto certain NUC's, they have a list of ones they've tested on their site. A NUC with Roon Rock on it provides a fairly low cost high quality music server with some limitations. The major limitation is that no other software can be installed on it. A second limitation is that you can only use Roon on it and Roon is one of the more expensive software's. I'm personally using a Roon Rock and like it.

J River Media Center is another popular software and is much less $ than Roon and I believe they also offer versions of their software that can be installed in a small computer to create a server similar to the Roon Rock.

Regards,
Mario
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Geno
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #14 - 01/23/19 at 21:46:18
 
All,

I think that I've decided what I want to do. I like the products that Small Green Computer offers. I'll get the SonicTransporter i5 CDR with the OpticalRendu (when available) - connected to my Decware ZDSD DAC.  Navigation and control of the library done with a tablet.   But I need clarification on connections. I've read that a hardwired connection will sound better than wi-fi.

Presently, my network port with my PC and wi-fi router is in my bedroom, which is about 100' away from my music system setup in my living room.

Do I need to have the phone company put in a network jack close to my stereo so that I can move the router and hardwire everything?

As you can tell, I am definitely NOT a computer guy...

Thanks, Geno

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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
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Archie
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #15 - 01/24/19 at 00:22:15
 
I don't know about sound but many have had issues with noise caused by wireless routers.  I'd definitely go hard wired if possible.
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MrDerrick
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #16 - 01/24/19 at 00:47:17
 
Geno,

The opticalRendu is USB out, I did not think that the ZDSD had a USB input.
You could connect the opticalRendu to the ultraDigital for a SPDIF output that should connect to the ZDSD.

Also, the opticalRendu is designed to connect to an optical switch, such as the yet to be released EtherRegen from UpTone Audio ( or other switch with optical capability )

I have the Small Green Computer SonicTransporter i5 and am very happy with it.

If you would need the ultraDigital to connect to the ZDSD, the connections would be as follows;

SonicTransporter i5 via ethernet to the optical switch
opticalRendu via fiber to the optical switch
opticalRendu via USB to ultraDigital
ultraDigital via SPDIF to ZDSD

If the ZDSD has a USB input ( other than the USB flashdrive input ) you can eliminate the ultra Digital.

The optical switch will have to be connected to the net in some manner.
Either via a wireless hub or directly to a router/modem via Ethernet.
You will need wifi somewhere on the network for tablet control.

You also must purchase the fiber SFP modules that insert into the opticalRendu  and the optical switch separately ( I think )
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Geno
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #17 - 01/24/19 at 02:05:29
 
Derrick,

Thank for the detailed response! You’re right that the Decware DAC doesn’t have the correct USB port. I had also been looking at DAC’s geared more toward this type of setup, and wondered if the ZDSD was compatible. And thanks for mentioning the UltraDigital. I just looked at it on the website.

Kind regards,

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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MrDerrick
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #18 - 01/24/19 at 02:30:18
 
Geno,

Something else to consider, if you have not already, is what maximum sampling rate do you want to be able to listen to?

The ZDSD through its SPDIF input maxs out at 192. If you want to be able to listen to DSD files through an input on the ZDSD, you need to connect via the SDIF-3 dual BNC connectors.

The only server/renderer that I know of that may be compatible is the DSC Network Bridge with its SDIF-2 output.

This would require 3 BNC cables;
SDIF-2 ( chn 1 & chn 2 & wrd clk out ) DCS Network Bridge Output
SDIF-3 ( left & right & wrd clk in ) ZDSD input

I am not 100% positive that this would work, the pro digital audio world works a bit differently from the consumer grade world.

Just something to consider, I hope it does not muddy the waters too much.

Of course it you are looking at DACs with a USB input that will simplify things.

Just when you have everything up and running, something better will come along, like a DAC with a fiber network connection!
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1.4/1.5 MHz 20 Bit PCM Qobuz or SSD
HQPE - sonicTransporter i9
HQP Client - i3 Tablet
HQP NAA - Sonore Sig Series Rendu
USB > Holo KTE May > SA1X/47 > ZBIT > ZSTAGE25 > SE84UFO25
Avantgarde Duo Omega & Townshend Super Tweeters
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StanleyG
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #19 - 01/24/19 at 04:33:08
 
I recently decided to go wired as I think when streaming wireless through more than two of the Google Wifi pods I use there was sometimes a degradation in sound quality...  My thinking was that because there are usually at least four of those pods bouncing signals around my house at any given time, the actual wireless connection might be bouncing around as well.

So I now have a 30' wired connection between the server and the utraRendu and a switch between them for a Google Wifi pod so the audio section connects to the existing wireless network, but I believe the audio data will remain within the wired section only. Gonna change that 30' to optical as soon as I get the remaining pieces of that puzzle. It seems like the wired connection sounds a little better and I no longer feel like there is that occasional inconsistency. Could all be my imagination.

As I understand, the opticalRendu will ship with the necessary SFP module (my switch from Small Green came with one).

Also, I had not realized before you already owned a ZDSD.  Unless I am mistaken, that will play files directly from USB attached storage as well as from memory cards. I have the non-Decware-modded version of it and had planned to make up Compact Flash cards with two or three albums each to use like mixtapes. Never really did so, but it is possible. The cumbersome file-management and lack of external control apps make it a bit of a kludge. Roon (which requires all the networking hoo-haw already talked about) is my new best friend!
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Klipsch Heresy III's
Decware SE84UFO25
Decware ZBIT
Esoteric K-05X
Sonore utraRendu
(soon-to-be optical ethernet)
Roon Nucleus Server
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Posts: 1988
Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #20 - 02/01/19 at 02:25:32
 
Stanley,

Are you happy with the quality of sound you have with the Roon Nucleus in the mix?
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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StanleyG
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #21 - 02/01/19 at 04:48:05
 
Very happy with it.

There are cheaper ways to go but my thinking was I had just been seduced by Roon as an interface, I may as well get married to it!  Also, it being their software running on their operating system on top of their hardware, they will be highly motivated to make certain it all plays well together.

There is a review by Steven Plaskin for Darko Audio (https://darko.audio/2018/08/roon-labs-nucleus-review/) that pretty much sold me on it.  Significant was Plaskin's description of the gyrations and modifications entailed in his then current digital playback system. None of that is necessary or even possible with the Nucleus. And Plaskin insists the Nucleus + sounds better. I have the basic (non +) version with the slower (less spendy) processor as I do not care for or intend to ever use DSP.

I did some quick listening tests when I first installed it and I think it sounded a bit better overall than my previous Mac mini/QNAP NAS setup, and somewhat better still when reading off an internal SSD that was not difficult to install.  And those tests were over a wireless connection...  I now have a wired connection that is further isolated  by a run of optical ethernet between two switches (short runs on each end are copper, after the Nucleus and before the ultraRendu).  

The downside (upside in my mind currently) is that the Nucleus only runs Roon.  But I don't much like the various Mac- and PC- based players I have tried or looked at except for the bare-bones MPD (Music Player Daemon) which I was using and, well, I am now married to Roon! As I type this, I am thinking it would prolly be possible to access the files on the Nucleus from another computer running some of those 'other' playback apps (but that would feel like cheating Smiley ).
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Klipsch Heresy III's
Decware SE84UFO25
Decware ZBIT
Esoteric K-05X
Sonore utraRendu
(soon-to-be optical ethernet)
Roon Nucleus Server
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Geno
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Without music, life
would be a mistake.

Posts: 1988
Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #22 - 02/01/19 at 15:42:50
 
Stanley,

I’m still trying to wrap my head around all of this. It is so new to me, but the more I read, the more interested I get.

I’m trying to understand the links in the chain. Especially how the ultraRendu figures in to it. Can you please give me a rundown on how you have it all connected. And what will be different when you replace the ultraRendu with the opticalRendu.

I definitely want to hardwire the connections, so I will have to have a network plug installed in the same room close to my stereo. In your description, can you please include router and Ethernet switch connections.

Thanks very much,

Geno

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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #23 - 02/02/19 at 03:00:58
 
The ultraRendu simply (albeit exceptionally well) performs the electronic step normally accomplished on the insides of a cd or other player where the raw data is rendered into a format intelligible to a DAC as well as being the brain that controls what data and when (per instructions received through other devices).  But it gets the data solely via ethernet (other players also read internal or external hard drives) which makes it handy in a server-based system. Alternatively, one could connect a DAC directly to the Nucleus via USB.

My setup:  Starting with the Roon Nucleus, I run copper ethernet to a switch (basically a junction box) which is connected to a Google Wifi device (in order that it all catches my router for being automatically assigned network addresses and the internet so Roon can look things up and validate its license). Then the hard wiring continues on to the ultraRendu.

Currently I am running optical ethernet from the first to a second switch which then runs copper direct to my ultraRendu... I could remove the second switch and run copper direct to the ultraRendu, but I like the SQ enhancement I attribute to the optical cable (rather, attribute to the absence of sonic degradation from the big copper 'antenna').  With the opticalRendu, that second switch will necessarily be removed as it only accepts optical (I think they are saying mid-March if I can get one of the first batch). Instead of a second switch, I could use one of Sonore's opticalModules when released in order to save a little money and stick with the ultraRendu.

So my wired section that serves the audio equipment is actually connected wirelessly to my router and the internet but hard-wired from the server to the ultraRendu where it matters. I may eventually climb a ladder and plug it directly in with a wire but I don't think that section impacts Sound Quality except for files streamed from TIDAL (and soon Qobuz) which will likely always sound poorer than local files simply by virtue of the thousands of miles the internet-streamed files travel through the wild to get to my cable modem. My plan is if I like something I heard through TIDAL to then seek out a cd rip or a hi rez download.

I was thinking while typing, I blame the magic of the Decware amp for my current obsession with sonic detail!

Lemme know if you have more questions, I hope this helps.
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Klipsch Heresy III's
Decware SE84UFO25
Decware ZBIT
Esoteric K-05X
Sonore utraRendu
(soon-to-be optical ethernet)
Roon Nucleus Server
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #24 - 02/02/19 at 03:34:54
 
Stanley,

Yes, that helps very much. I’m starting to get a grasp on how this all works.

Thank you!

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #25 - 02/02/19 at 05:35:40
 
I use Audirvana+ and am really impressed with the sound quality.  I run Audirvana on a purpose-built Mac Mini - situated in my audio rack directly hardwired to my audio equipment - with all the superfluous hardware and software stripped.  I also power it with a Tea-Dak linear power supply.  

Originally, I connected it through my AQVOX SE audio optimized switch to an ultraRendu, which is a fantastic product!  I soon after discovered my Oppo UDP-205 can act as a UDP end point, so I decided to A/B my Oppo against my ultraRendu.  I already had the Oppo in my system so it just made sense.  I honestly could not detect any audible difference between the two, so I simplified my system and removed the ultraRendu and now stream Audirvana to my Oppo 205, which connects to my PS Audio DirectStream DAC via SPDIF.  

The AQVOX SE switch was a game changer in my system.  However, two weeks ago I caught wind that DJM Electronics had released their GigaFOIL v4 inline ethernet fiber optic filter and decided to give it a try.  Essentially, what it does is create a fiber optic gap in the ethernet connection chain right before your critical streaming end point, which in my case is the Oppo 205.  The idea is this fiber optic gap creates a noise barrier, stopping EMI from continuing on to your end point.  Some have used (2) TP Link boxes to achieve the same but this is a single unit (one less power supply and risk of bringing that noise into the equation) that is purpose-built with audio in mind.  My AQVOX SE has onboard noise elimination so I wasn't sure how much of a difference this box would make.  

With this addition, the high end frequencies reached a level of clarity that took me by surprise.  I have made MANY improvements to my system over the last several months - all doing their part to improve the overall experience.  The change this box brought to my streaming quality was a step beyond what I thought possible taking into consideration what I had already done to improve that chain.  This improved high frequency clarity also brought increased holography and soundstage expansion. The improvement is truly impressive.  Though not exactly a bargain component, it is an absolute steal based on the improvement it has brought to my system.  

Anyway, just some food for thought in the digital streaming realm...
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Canary Audio Grand Reference Monos//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//Waversa DAC3//ModWright Oppo UDP-205// PS Audio P20//Canary Audio MC-10//Van den Hul Colibri "Stradivarius"//FFYX T1803 TT//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel & tube playback preamp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #26 - 02/02/19 at 12:59:43
 
Thanks Jeff!  I need all the info and opinions I can get going forward with this. I just ordered the DirectStream Junior as the first step. I love the Decware DAC, but needed one that is better suited to streaming. The ZDSD isn’t going anywhere though. It will always be part of my system🤓

I’m sure as this progresses, I’ll have more questions.

Thanks again for your comments,

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #27 - 02/02/19 at 13:01:22
 
Jeff of Arabica wrote on 02/02/19 at 05:35:40:
I use Audirvana+ and am really impressed with the sound quality.  I run Audirvana on a purpose-built Mac Mini - situated in my audio rack directly hardwired to my audio equipment - with all the superfluous hardware and software stripped.  I also power it with a Tea-Dak linear power supply.  

Originally, I connected it through my AQVOX SE audio optimized switch to an ultraRendu, which is a fantastic product!  I soon after discovered my Oppo UDP-205 can act as a UDP end point, so I decided to A/B my Oppo against my ultraRendu.  I already had the Oppo in my system so it just made sense.  I honestly could not detect any audible difference between the two, so I simplified my system and removed the ultraRendu and now stream Audirvana to my Oppo 205, which connects to my PS Audio DirectStream DAC via SPDIF.  

The AQVOX SE switch was a game changer in my system.  However, two weeks ago I caught wind that DJM Electronics had released their GigaFOIL v4 inline ethernet fiber optic filter and decided to give it a try.  Essentially, what it does is create a fiber optic gap in the ethernet connection chain right before your critical streaming end point, which in my case is the Oppo 205.  The idea is this fiber optic gap creates a noise barrier, stopping EMI from continuing on to your end point.  Some have used (2) TP Link boxes to achieve the same but this is a single unit (one less power supply and risk of bringing that noise into the equation) that is purpose-built with audio in mind.  My AQVOX SE has onboard noise elimination so I wasn't sure how much of a difference this box would make.  

With this addition, the high end frequencies reached a level of clarity that took me by surprise.  I have made MANY improvements to my system over the last several months - all doing their part to improve the overall experience.  The change this box brought to my streaming quality was a step beyond what I thought possible taking into consideration what I had already done to improve that chain.  This improved high frequency clarity also brought increased holography and soundstage expansion. The improvement is truly impressive.  Though not exactly a bargain component, it is an absolute steal based on the improvement it has brought to my system.  

Anyway, just some food for thought in the digital streaming realm...


Jeff,

Glad to hear about your experience with the new GigaFOIL v4 inline ethernet fiber optic filter. What kind of ethernet cables are you using with it?

It would be great if, over time, someone could incorporate this technology directly into the ethernet cable or terminations. Filters have been successfully incorporated into USB cables over the last few years.

HK
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #28 - 02/02/19 at 13:57:56
 
Jeff,

I’m looking at the Ethernet switch and filter online. Where did you purchase them?

Geno
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #29 - 02/02/19 at 15:09:36
 
Quote:
I’m looking at the Ethernet switch and filter online. Where did you purchase them?

Geno,
The site is a little tricky to navigate at first, but AQVOX has an online shop located here:  http://www.myhifishop.de/Devices/AQ-SWITCH-SE-Audiophile-High-End-Network-Switch...  

This is the "SE" version that I purchased.

Quote:
What kind of ethernet cables are you using with it?


HK, I am using these AQVOX Excel LAN cables with the switch and GigaFoil
http://www.myhifishop.de/Cables/Digital-Cables/AQVOX-LAN-EXCEL-High-End-Network-...
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Canary Audio Grand Reference Monos//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//Waversa DAC3//ModWright Oppo UDP-205// PS Audio P20//Canary Audio MC-10//Van den Hul Colibri "Stradivarius"//FFYX T1803 TT//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel & tube playback preamp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #30 - 02/02/19 at 15:17:38
 
Quote:
I just ordered the DirectStream Junior as the first step.


Hey Geno, the DirectStream DAC with the Snowmass firmware does everything I could ask for in a DAC with breathtaking SQ and continual improvements through Ted Smith firmware upgrades being its two greatest strengths.  

Did you purchase it new or were you able to find one pre-owned?

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Canary Audio Grand Reference Monos//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//Waversa DAC3//ModWright Oppo UDP-205// PS Audio P20//Canary Audio MC-10//Van den Hul Colibri "Stradivarius"//FFYX T1803 TT//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel & tube playback preamp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #31 - 02/02/19 at 16:51:59
 
Jeff,

I rolled the dice and got the DirectStream JR on Audiogon used. I bought it yesterday and should have it by the end of the week. Hopefully my luck with buying used products will hold up.

Thanks for the link for the switch. That’s the one I had looked at, but wanted to make sure it was the best source.

Best,

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #32 - 02/02/19 at 19:42:20
 
Hey Geno,

Congrats on pulling the trigger on the DSJ! I had a PSAudio NuWave DAC that I liked but the DirectStream products are, I think, an order of magnitude superior.

As I understand it, the current DirectStream software (if not at least one of their earlier versions) makes the DSJ 'Roon Ready'. That renders (pun intended) any of the various -Rendu devices technically unnecessary (and money saved!). Though with USB input on the DSJ, they remain an option.

Really enjoying this thread; lots of information and I am very curious about enhancements and SQ related to various ethernet tweaks.
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Klipsch Heresy III's
Decware SE84UFO25
Decware ZBIT
Esoteric K-05X
Sonore utraRendu
(soon-to-be optical ethernet)
Roon Nucleus Server
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #33 - 02/02/19 at 20:44:02
 
Stanley,

Thanks to you, Derrick, Jeff and others, I think I have a handle on how this streaming business works. I certainly have some options as far as products and ways to connect. I have learned a lot since I started this post, from you good folks, and reading about the products and connections. I love Decware and this forum!

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #34 - 02/03/19 at 03:32:55
 
Stanley,

What size internal storage did your Roon Server come with? I read an article that said you can add an internal SSD, but it was unclear if it comes with one stock.
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #35 - 02/03/19 at 05:17:01
 
I was surprised they did not offer a pre-installed drive, I woulda gone for 2 or 4 GB. I had a pre-used 500 GB SSD that I installed myself. It is a pretty easy process though the screws are tiny and my ham-like hands and sausage-fingers are not so agile these days. The drive gets formatted/erased as part of the setup.

I did my first tests with a bus-powered external (glorified) thumb drive from OWC:  https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/OWC/Envoy-Pro-mini  They also sell the SSD's like the one I installed.

I don't plan to keep all my audio files on that drive so I am not concerned with filling it up anytime soon.  My backup drive holding 292 albums is only at 369 GB.  Some of those are DSD (.dsf) files which are maybe 4 or 5 times the size of PCM rips (I mostly use .flac). I need to get to work digitizing!

Some of the others might have estimates or an equation to figure how big a drive you might need for your collection. I can't imagine how big a drive Lon would need!

The Nautilus manual is online (I don't think they even included a printed version in the box) if you want to look at the step-by-step instructions:  https://kb.roonlabs.com/Nucleus_Manual

Oh, and getting files onto the internal drive requires another compter and som basic file transfer (over the network) skills.  Not difficult but if you have never done it in other circumstances, it might be a challenge at first.
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Klipsch Heresy III's
Decware SE84UFO25
Decware ZBIT
Esoteric K-05X
Sonore utraRendu
(soon-to-be optical ethernet)
Roon Nucleus Server
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #36 - 02/03/19 at 14:20:50
 
I have 2 - 1TB external drives that I can connect via usb to the Nucleus. That would be the easiest option, but would it operate as seamlessly as a internal SSD? And more importantly, will it sound as good?

A few of the Roon Ready products at Small Green Computer have internal SSD options, but I wonder if they would run Roon as well as the Roon Nucleus?
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #37 - 02/03/19 at 22:31:46
 
USB attached storage just needs to be set up.  I think just once and then one can remove the drive(s) when wanting to add files via another computer (putting it back of course) making it possibly easier than an internal drive. Roon updates your library with whatever files it can access or not so seems to me one could maintain different libraries on different external disks; limiting what is browsable at any given time and making total storage limitless. I had expected it would be easy to move USB attached files to internal storage directly on the Nucleus, but I could not locate that functionality in the Roon software. I just add to or delete from the internal drive via network connection as I am already set up to do that elsewhere for non-music files.

One advantage to Small Green's i5 CDR is likely that cd rips simply get added to the internal drive (and therefore your Roon library) when created.  I almost bought that one.  Other people on the forum prolly have direct experience with Small Green stuff as well as other similar devices. I am sure they run Roon (ROCK is the version Roon supports for dedicated servers) as well as anything, their business depends on it... They may even sound better than the Nucleus.

When I first installed the Nucleus, my short testing suggested the internal storage sounded the same as USB attached storage, though I would need to test more extensively. But both sounded a little better than a wirelessly attached server. This was what got me started thinking of wired connections being preferable...  also that other thread on ethernet cables... and then I got interested in optical ethernet. Also now testing a new spendy (copper) ethernet cable. And someone just mentioned that foil thingy! Quicksand!
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Klipsch Heresy III's
Decware SE84UFO25
Decware ZBIT
Esoteric K-05X
Sonore utraRendu
(soon-to-be optical ethernet)
Roon Nucleus Server
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #38 - 02/03/19 at 22:54:14
 
Will,

What is the player software you are using?  How is MacOS tuned?  

John
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #39 - 02/04/19 at 16:40:05
 
Will,

See Johns question above.

Also, what external drive are you using that you consider quiet?

Thanks,

Geno
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
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ZLC Power Cond.
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #40 - 02/06/19 at 06:21:08
 
Sorry for not answering earlier...been busy.

Geno,

The drive I use is from Oyen Digital. The following link shows the newer versions of this drive, though my Firewire version seems to be discontinued. Mine is 1 TB and was tested for sound by a friend who compared a number of drives. I don't know the details of why, but mine is pretty quiet in terms of hearing spinning, and in terms of sonics. https://oyendigital.com/minipro-portable-storage.html

EDIT: I alluded to it below, but thought it best to be more clear. The way I learned it anyway, it is best to avoid sharing busses, especially avoiding potential increase of computing work and noise on the USB buss, the same buss used by many DACs. The concept made sense to me, as did the idea of isolating another possible noise and heat maker from the computer enclosure, so using an external drive. In the case of the Oyen Firewire drive I use, it is not USB, it is external, and sounded a little better without an external power supply compared to this drive's being powered off the Firewire buss. Sounding better powered by the computer was a little counter intuitive to me, but not necessarily when you consider power supplies can be noisy. Based on this, I personally would be reticent to use an external USB drive in my USB DAC setup without some pretty convincing advice. Depending on parts, design, and all, some things can be better or worse than others, but several small problems can add up, so I was careful about these things setting my front end.

John,

The "Revolution" OS for my Mini came from Eric Hider at dBAudioLabs. Using Mac OS Mavericks, the leanest Mac OS of recent years, by sound, they removed over 200,000 lines of code unnecessary for audio. This system change was applied to an already highly tuned Mini, already smooth and natural sounding, but the refinement from the OS may well have been more influential than the all the hardware tuning combined. It all matters though, and at this point I would not want to do without either. I wrote impressions on the OS here if you are interested: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1525543779

My favorite player software is Audirvana +, the latest version. Personally, it took a while for me to come over to it, finding it a bit overstated stock. But with its broad and complete tuning settings, I got it good enough to buy and experiment further. Mostly I tuned it to be a bit less forceful and focused, and brought out more fine detail and harmonic information. Now I really appreciate what it can do for my sound. Without its software tuning potential for tuning to taste and system/room, I would likely have stayed with Pure Music. But this was several years ago, and Audirvana has improved quite a bit since then. 2.6.8 was a notable step up for me, and more again once version 3... got sorted out. It is easy to play through a RAM disk in older OSs, isolating the app work to RAM. And once figured out, articulate software tools allow for quite refined variations on good sound. Associated, for my needs, after fine tuning for remaining room issues, I can't do without articulate and transparent EQ. I love Audirvana's built-in ability to tune a fairly broad set of EQ while listening to music. Acting directly on the digital files within the player software, if there is noticeable degradation, it is overruled by improvements for me.

My Mini is 2012 i7 4 core, fast, relatively affordable, and near the end of year models that were most easily modified, and that could use older Operating Systems. With specifically tuned power filtering; a specially designed DIY power cable; internal SSD for OS and software only; 16 MG of fast RAM; music on an external Oyen Digital Firewire drive (reducing noise compared to an internal music drive, and separate from the USB buss I use for audio streaming, also reducing noise and signal damage); musically tuned damping material, weight and feet to best solve (by sound) vibration issues; a really good DIY USB cable going to a Kitsune modded Singxer SU-1 USB converter; I2S from Singxer to my modded Gustard x20pro DAC, and both  tuned by sound with cables, feet and weight....

This is a very natural and complete sounding front end. It reveals smooth and refined signal density without thickness or sacrifice to fine detail, nuance, textures, natural harmonics...things that tend to be damaged and suffer from many digital "solutions." I think the density improvements from the OS are indicative of quality digital, where all the very fine information is clearer, more smooth, more saturated and complete, top to bottom...less damaged, it sounds like more fine information creates more refined density.

Interestingly, I had sound I really liked before upgrading the OS, but after the OS change, the digital to analog signal was deeper, fuller, clearer and more powerful, enough for me to need to retune. Also interesting. For years I used a jitterbug in front of a Regen (2nd generation I think), periodically checking to see if I could improve upon this with other tools and cable rolling, but kept coming back to the same cables and USB treatment. After the OS changes, and fine-tuning to it, I found my DIY USB cable alone gave me the most complete and natural sound. At this point of my front end development, I could hear too much of a sort of an electronic tinselly influence I had always disliked with the Regen, but its general ability to clean up the USB made it worth working around the Regen's slight oddity. Now, presumably, less damage to the digital data in computer, and over USB, the negative influences of the Regen began to outweigh its benefit. I am guessing this is at least in part because the server OS resolved digital with enough clarity to make the Regen more audible, and no longer needed/beneficial.

The Singxer I added more recently, and had enough clarifying qualities to keep it, improving articulation and depth in particular, if a little hard at first. I don't notice hardness now, but fully burned in, I need to AB it, in and out. I suspect some carefully placed damping might really help it.

Having used several Mac Mini models, with various degrees of tuning over the years, I am a little baffled when I read "better than a Mini" in comparisons. Mine have sounded pretty great once tuned, but different depending lots of considerations. With a good overall setup for audio only, the more tuned to sound they are, the more smooth and revealing they can become. But even my first Mini, a 2009 or 10, tuned maybe 1/6 as completely as this one, I could hear enough of the differences between flac and uncompressed, error corrected music files to not use flac. So I figure it was pretty clean and revealing. Anyway, in my experience, the right models of "a Mac Mini" can be a very good start on a music only server, but depending on hardware and software, OS, settings and tuning, "a Mini" can be a lot of different things!
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #41 - 02/07/19 at 19:12:47
 
Will,


Thanks for the reply!  I will do some research into dBAudioLabs software!

John
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #42 - 02/07/19 at 20:12:56
 
Thank you, Will!
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
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will
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #43 - 02/07/19 at 20:46:00
 
John and Geno,

You are welcome. Good luck in your investigations! It is an amazing time when, with careful choices and application, we can get to a place where music in the home is so engaging and real that it can transform daily life! I am really grateful!

Will
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #44 - 02/19/19 at 20:19:14
 
Update on this. I have gone from not wanting a computer in my setup to asking Lonely Raven to build one of his dedicated audio computers for me. He is presently getting it built, but I should have it in the next week or so. Definitely the way to go for me, especially considering the very affordable cost Cool
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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HockessinKid
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #45 - 02/19/19 at 20:43:41
 
Geno,

LR's music computer is very easy to use once you get it set up and hooked up to you DAC. Make sure you get a decent USB cable and get your streaming app configured for the best sound quality.

I have two of LR's computers. They both work flawlessly. Enjoy and take your time.

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #46 - 02/19/19 at 20:56:58
 
Thanks Hock. It will definitely be tricky for me to get this puppy set up properly. I'm not a computer guy, so i will have questions. I hope i can rely on you and LR for help. I'll try not to be too aggravating about it Roll Eyes
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #47 - 02/19/19 at 21:41:16
 

Thanks for the kind words HK!
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HockessinKid
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #48 - 02/19/19 at 22:25:06
 
LR,

You provide an invaluable, inexpensive streaming solution and are real credit to the Decware community. Thanks for all your computer and IT insights, they are really helpful to us who lack a lot of computer knowledge.

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables
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Geno
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Without music, life
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #49 - 02/20/19 at 00:14:38
 
I second what HK said!
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(2)SE84UFO(Balanced Monoblocs) OR Sansui AU-222
Crown sub amp
Cambridge Audio CXN(ModWright) • ZBIT
SL-1210MK5(KAB Mods) Soundsmith Aida MKll cart • Darlington Labs MP-7
Otari MX5050-Bll2 R2R
ZLC Power Cond.
Lii Audio PT-10/W-15 in open baffles
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #50 - 02/20/19 at 14:52:50
 

I'm very pleased I can help!
Even with my IT knowledge I had to trudge through it and figure it out.
I figured why re-invent the wheel and just help folks shortcut to the end and seeing if they even like digital music!

Worst case, if someone decides they don't like the whole digital music thing, they still have a nice computer!
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Palomino
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #51 - 02/21/19 at 18:27:49
 
We need to do a comparo El Presidente.  

Given my new amp a little more time to season and then we should CDApS up and see how they sound.

My mini should be a good to higher quality version of the mini with an i7, SSDs and external power supply.

We'd need to figure out the player that would be available on both.  I never really listen to the Tidal player, but we could have that on both computers.  What else is cross-platform?
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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will
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #52 - 02/21/19 at 20:13:42
 
That would be a cool comparison. From what I gather from the harder core Mini set, part of the Mini attraction is how good Audirvana (once tuned), Pure, and Amarra sound. I don't recall that Amarra has a Windows version, but Audirvana seems to finally have it. Maybe download a trial, set them up the same filters and settings, and test? Don't know how buggy the Windows version is, but it would seem the audio engines would be pretty close.
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All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #53 - 02/21/19 at 22:35:33
 

Why limit ourselves to same/same cross platform software?

Why not have the same music files, and just see what each system does on it's own merits?

For example, let's just take one of our playlists, load up one of my budget machines with those files, load up one of the experimental Linux machines with the same files, load up one of the Apple machines with the same files, and just see what sounds best with whatever native software?  If they are all close to indiscernible that tells us something right there.  If one system shines above all others, let's drill down and figure out why.

We could still do cross platform same/same, but I don't think that tells us as much as specific built around a certain software system would.

For all we know, Bad Wolf's Linux build might just crush all. But we might not even notice if we limit this to Tidal.
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Palomino
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #54 - 02/21/19 at 23:11:53
 
Because we won’t know if it’s the software or the machine.  Maybe roon or whatever crushes Audirvana.  

We could also do as you say and that has merit but I was thinking box comparison first.

I forgot about BW’s rig.  If we are disiplined we could get through three systems.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DAC/Music Server - No laptop
Reply #55 - 02/22/19 at 02:23:59
 
BW's got the boxes ready for us to test. He already told me he wants to buy the 3rd one off me.
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