Haven't heard of Steve offering such a unit, but it would be right up my alley to get one.
 What I prefer now is the BPT (Balanced Power Technologies) power conditioner. Main reason is that it provides balanced power at each one of it's secondary taps, which naturally cancels out common mode noise. Just a touch more efficient than the usual single ended power that we get from the wall outlet. Also, there is little/passive circuitry to fail. I really love the old PS Audio power re-generators, but there is a butt load of circuitry going on, and they weren't very efficient either. The newer models do not offer balanced power for some reason.

Steve mentioned in an email a few days back he has one coming out in 8 weeks or so ....you might want to wait a few weeks.

I'm interested in it (after my ZMA enhancements). I can dump my P3 on AudiogoN.

No, I don't.

I heard a while back that the power condition would be under $1000, don't know if that has held or not, I would imagine it has, it came from Steve.
Best,
Scott

I discovered over the weekend that my cheap power strip is causing most if not all of the glare I've been hearing the past few months.  So, I 'd like to fix that asap.

I originally had a budget of about $500, but I'm flexible.  I'd like at least 10 outlets.

Here is what I found so far....

A used P10 for $2,400 - is it really that good?

A blue circle BC660 for $999.
http://www.tlp-audio.com/powerConditioners.php

A Furman Elite 15 PFI for $800.  
https://www.furmanpower.com/product/conditioner-power-ht-15a-power-factor-ELITE-...

Or get a $100 Blue Circle power puck and wait for Steve to introduce his power conditioner.

Couldn't find the BPT gear that 4krow mentioned.

Any thoughts?

Hey Scott,

I’m waiting for Steve’s power conditioner to be released as well, in the meantime I’m using a Blue Circle PLC-FX2 which I have had for some time.  I was going to upgrade to the BC660 because of the performance that I got from the PLC-FX2.  I would like to spring for a P10, no doubt, It’s just not in the budget right now.

Recently I was evaluating digital coaxial cables and came across High Fidelity Cables.  In the process I discovered that they make a module that is supposed to be good - MC-0.5.  Right now the Cable Co. has these on at 20% off of $299.00 with the sale code MODULE20.  Never tried one, don’t know how it would perform as an interm step.  Might wan’t to call The cable Co. and see what they have to say.

Cheers
In a couple of weeks I’ll be moving my system to a new room in which I had a dedicated 10 gauge cable run from the panel to the receptacle.  At that time I’ll be reviewing the conditioning and power cable set up that I have and will be waiting for Steve’s power conditioner.

Something to keep in mind - I know we throw "power conditioner" out there as a blanket term for "something to fix my power" - but the fact is there are many different ways of doing this, and the different devices listed above are almost like comparing cars to boats to airplanes; Yes, they all move you, but they are completely different animals.

For example, a "Power Conditioner" is typically a device that uses some sort of electronic *filters* to attempt to clean the noise out of the line that's feeding your gear. There are many, many ways of doing this (electrically) so this is is a wide range of devices and even a bunch of snake oil in the form of carbon fiber tubes, crystals, and other crap.

A "Surge Suppressor" is typically a device that your power runs through that has sacrificial part that will take the hit if your lines are hit by lightning - sort of like a fuse. But these devices usually don't do much else. (does nothing for minor spikes or brown outs - and no filtration)

A "power regulator" is a device that tries to keep your power at a constant voltage, say 120v or whatever you dial it into. Again, lots of ways of doing this electrically.

A "power isolator" is a device that uses a 1:1 ratio transformer to electrically and physically separate the incoming power from the output power. This can act as both a filter of sorts, and can also isolate your gear from lightning strikes. You could add some extra filtration and cover a lot of ground with this one device - which is why I believe Steve went with this rout for the Decware power devices...you can get a lot of bang for your buck.

Then you have "Power Regeneration" - which is where the much more expensive devices like the PS Audio P10 falls into.  This type of device is taking  your 120v (nominal) power, and basically running it through a highly regulated power amp with a near perfect A/C sine wave coming out the other end.  Think about that, it's literally a power amp that plays one single note:  60hz   So, the P10 encompases a lot of the above with: *some* surge protection - it has regulation circuits that shut down when power looks really scary, as well as fuses (but can still be taken out by a lightning strike), digitally controlled power regulation that you can dial in to the output voltage *you* want (which helps with surges and brownouts), and filtration and isolation through its computer controlled sine wave and circuitry. And even goes as far as allowing you to tweak the output sine wave to allow for more "charge time" for your gear's power supply, *and* lowers the power circuits resistance making it easier/faster for your power demanding gear to pull the power it needs for transients...which is an issue some of the other devices listed above can actually make worse! Which is why I think Lon and I both have Isolation Transformers in storage - they are great for digital gear, but suck the life out of demanding amps. Note: Many of us have heard the ZMA plugged into Steve's Decware Isolation Transformers, and his certainly didn't suck the life out of the amp - I've read that toroid isolation transformers have less resistance and handle transients better, and Steve said he is using toroids so...

Anyways, that's just a general overview of different technologies. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, and the better (passive) ones I've heard usually include multiple technologies in clever ways (for example isolation/regulation with further filtration on the output and big caps for transients). Just be careful what you buy into, as the more I research it, the more I see that these companies seem to be blind to or willfully ignorant to what their gear is doing to sound. What I mean by that is, they seem to focus on one thing; such as measurably lowering the RF/EMI interference, at the expense of regulation or transients. Sure the power measures well, but now my amp sounds flat. Or maybe they are really good at regulation - which is awesome if you're a computer and want perfect, uninterrupted power...but oh crap, my bass went to shit and my treble is harsh from all the perfectly regulated noise!

So my suggestion, no matter what you get...even if spending the big bucks on a P10, is to see if you can audition it with *your* gear, with *your* power situation. Make sure you can return/exchange (or easily flip) the device if it doesn't do what you hope/expect it to. I splurged on a P10 after doing a ton of research years ago, and after going through many devices that only seemed to suck the life out of amps. And to be completely honest, the power supply is so good on the ZMA, I hear very little improvement if any. However, every other amp I plugged into the P10 definitely shows improvement.

Final note (sorry so long) - if you can do it, I've found a much bigger bang for my buck by simply running a dedicated "home run" circuit from a quality outlet back to my breaker panel using the highest gauge wire the outlet can take - Including (or especially) the ground wire.. Giving your gear a low resistance circuit to draw from, and even better a really low resistance ground for noise to go down, will help your system get those "black backgrounds" people talk about. I was a skeptic till I tried it, and I'll be damned if it didn't help! Bonus points if you go one step further and have an electrician add an extra grounding rod to your house to further lower your resistance to ground.

Good luck, and do your research!  

LR,

 I will admit that I skimmed through your post, but knowing you from many past posts on this subject and others, I know that we share the same track. As much as I was capable about having my house electrical panel upgraded, I used the opportunity to do everything before and after the panel in order to get all connections, breakers, wire and more up to spec so to say. As LR has mentioned, it was my opportunity to run a dedicated line in order to maximize the power for the sound system. You can spend all you want on power cords and more, but starting at the breaker box will yield benefits per dollar spent.  ;)

LR, your comment about the ground rod, Driving a second longer rod next to the existing one would ensure a fresh and good ground.  I have heard in esoteric circles for sound healing (which is ultra precision) that there had to be 15 ground rods spaced at 4 inches apart in a straight line leading away from the first to get a black enough noise floor for accurate measurements.

I can tell you what a bad ground rod does....  A house I lived in had one once.  The lights would dim and raise in brightness.  Turning on a light in the kitchen would make a light in the living room get brighter.  Once night I saw the conduit from the fusebox glowing red with rings of blue plasma slowly moving up and down it.  Looked like something from star-trek.  Turned out the rod went almost completely bad so there was no neutral.  The two legs coming in were floating so the load on each leg had to be perfectly balanced or the voltage could raise or lower by easily 50 volts with just a few things turned on.

Haha, come to think of it, that was around the time I got into tube gear and was restoring old Harmon Kardon and Stromburg Carlson amps for myself.  Had some out of this world nights back then and it all makes sense now!

I found the ground rod below the meter, and went to drive a new 6 foot rod next to it and after the 3rd hit with the hammer the new rod disappeared into the ground.  Apparently a hollow cavity.  Took an extra long rod to fix that one.

Quote:


Steve, that's interesting - I've read the military specifications on installing ground rods (keep in mind, these guys have it figured out because they are installing gear in harsh environments around the world, so they learned the hard way). They say the rods need to be at least 6' apart (and at least 8' deep) to avoid possible ground to ground interference.  I'm wondering if having so many rods in one location basically acts as one giant rod then (and obviously lowering the resistance)

Of course having the rods in moist soil helps. I happen to have a bit of a gully behind my house, and next spring plan on adding yet another rod closer to the moist soil down the hill. I'm not sure I can get much better than what I've already done...but what I've done so far as been noticed by visitors so it's made a difference so far.

Thank you all for sharing your ideas and to LR for the excellent explanation.

I almost ordered the Tripplite product Lon mentioned to get by, but thankfully posted here first.  Apparently I would not have gotten rid of the glare.

I do have a dedicated circuit. I ran 10 gauge romex and used a hubel outlet.  At the time I was still getting a lot of hum/buzzing which turned out to be a solid state amp. I don't have an additional ground, but I'll inquire with my local electrical contractor about adding one.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Decware products for sure.  In the meantime, I'm aquiring a used Furman unit to get by and hopefully take another step forward.

LR,

 I like the example that you give here about the power supply. There is no doubt in my mind that a power supply designed for a given purpose may do it's job in one capacity, but will not improve the performance for another job. Having said that however, most things can be tweaked for a new direction. I err on the side of using a robust supply and then tailor it (by ear) to be what I am looking for.

Hmmm. . . yeah I was interested before the past week or two. Since then I've begun using my amps plugged into a PS Audio Soloist outlet and really like the sound. Every thing else is plugged into the P10 which is plugged into another PS Audio Soloist outlet, which is a "Special Edition." With the huge power supply and power regulation for both output and input tubes on the SE84UFO3 Monoblocks I find myself enjoying the sound this way a tiny bit better than with the amps plugged into the P10.
(Neither these outlets nor the P10 restrict dynamics or impart he sound in any way that I have experienced over the years).

So I'm less eager to spend 895 now. The big advantage to doing so would be with those six outlets on Steve's conditioner I could plug all my analog equipment into that, and the P10 could power all my digital audio and video equipment and I could have the analog and digital separated quite effectively. Would that make a difference worth the price, and would I like the sound of all my preamps and tuner also plugged outside the P10? Questions I don't have the answera to. At the moment, not having the 895, it's easy to just leave them as questions.

I've attached a photo that Lonely Raven posted here on the forum. Doesn't look that big to me. . . . .

I just found this page on the new conditioner:

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZLC.html

No smancy lights on the front though.  

I will tell this is exactly what I would use for power needs. The unit I have is almost exactly the same in design, and has been trouble free for many years. Totally balanced is the way to go, and was the main reason that I liked the Original PS Audio power re-generators. Trouble with them was all that circuitry! I knew that sooner or later, the excessive heat and circuits would not get along, so I searched for another balanced design that was passive. I came up with a heavy BPT product and never looked back. Good to see that someone else is making a quality device for less than thousands of dollars.

Should be no problem in my experience.

Cool I'd like 2 units! My only nitpick is that I wish the voltage reader was on the front of the unit and not facing the back … the reader is of little use when facing the towards the back wall.

Great, I'll most likely get two as well!

Maybe the other version will have voltage on the front.

Meters on the back, meters on the front... I guess it depends on which photo that you are looking at. Yes, one photo does show these 'meters' all on the front, but the link that Steve posted shows no meters on the front, and a line voltage meter (to use the term loosely) on the rear panel next to the IEC power inlet. Personally, I wouldn't any more lights  on any piece of gear than absolutely necessary.

In terms of the Decfest pic that LR posted with all of the lights on the front of the power supply, versus the one that is on the main site.....

Maybe the one on the main site is using blanking plugs.  If the user decides to utilize a certain switch, he would pop out and remove the plug to expose the light indicator.  Hopefully Steve could we chime in and give us more clarification.  

Personally I don’t need any more lights than necessary, and the illuminated switch would be enough for me.

If my assumptions are true, then that setup would be cool and stealth.  If you blow up Eric’s picture ( by pinch and zooming on your mobile device) it even looks like the light housing is countersunk just enough to accommodate the plug.  

That's a good question.

I accomplish surge protection for my Monoblocks and my preamp by using PS Audio Soloist outlets (one is the standard, one an "SE" . . . .) PS Audio no longer makes these, but they can be found (one on amazon at present). Does noise reduction and offers surge protection.

https://www.musicdirect.com/power/ps-audio-soloist-in-wall-ac-power-conditioner

I've ordered one of the new ZLCs. I think I know how to get it into my rack, and without the "lights" it will get spousal approval. I think this will work out very well for my system: all my analog components (Decware and my Magnum Dynalab tuner) in the new ZLC, all my digital audio and visual components in the P10.

Steve, what fuse is used in the ZLC? Thanks.

No actually you paid the original price, that Musical Direct price that showed on that page I cited was a half-price clearance price and was a helluva deal at the time.

Great! I think you'll be very happy with them. I found they made a difference with my system. Good score.