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The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience (Read 27291 times)
Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #150 - 08/31/20 at 22:17:42
 
Ha, thanks Scott! If I hadn't accidentally deleted a profile from last century I'd have even more posts!

Thanks Jim and Greg. I'll keep it up as apparently I can't stop. Wink
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Steve Deckert
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #151 - 09/01/20 at 02:37:23
 
This might be a good time to mention that I don't think the work "dick" is on the bad word list anymore, I believe I took it off the list when I saw your Phillip K. D*ck predicament. ; )

Also nice update, and I agree with you.  That preamp injected in the mix is after you've had one, no longer optional.

Steve
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #152 - 09/01/20 at 03:23:25
 
Oh, will be nice to have that last name complete, thanks for that Steve.

Yes. . . oddly enough I love having both the ZTPRE and the CSP3 with mods in the system. I've tried taking one or the other out and it's so much better with them both Iespecially as my sources are balanced).

The 25th Anniversary Mods are a great step forward.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #153 - 09/26/20 at 18:45:56
 
Gosh, this 25th Anniversary Modified Experience is just. . . climbing a mountain. Sometimes you make a misstep with gain riding or tube-rolling and you hang on and regroup and get to a new height. You rest and then you feel you have an insight as to how to get up a little higher. . . .

This week I played around with input tubes and I now have for input tubes an entire complement of Amperex 7308 (mostly Holland, a few USA) with the exception of the ZROCK2 which has a tube Steve sent, a Sylvania 6189 that just seems near perfect in that component.

Wow. With the Tesla 0A2s, the Arcturus 0B3 and Cunningham Type 80 Globes in the Monoblocks and an RCA Type 80 Globe in the CSP3 I'm getting great sound of a new level perhaps.

I should stop, sit tight. Enjoy the view. But then others ignited a spark of curiosity of the 6NS7 types. So. . . in a few weeks I'll be trying those out. It never ends. Which with these quality components and this type of sound to listen to. . . is a great thing. Keeps us involved with the components and learning about them.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. Dick

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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #154 - 08/16/21 at 13:54:32
 
Okay, this has to be some kind of world record for me but I haven't rolled a tube in the main system in a month and so I have to be immensely satisfied with the sound and I'm going to try to just leave things entirely alone because I am just spinning discs and getting washed in the sound happily.

Here's my tube lineup:
ZTPRE: Amperex 6085 PQ with adapters
ZROCK2: Amperex 7062 piched waist
CSP3 with Mods: RCA/Cunningham Type 80 globe, RCA 6SN7 tall Gray Glass with adapters
SE84UFO3 monoblocks with Mods: Sophia Electric Aqua 274B, Telsa 0A2, Marshall labeled Chatham 0C3W, RCA 6SN7 tall Gray Glass with adapters, Steve's red-tipped output tubes

The synergy is great, these complements just compliment each other so. Getting back into the low-powered Zen amps was my first step into the ecstatic zone, they just have a natural organicness that the push-pull amps don't provide for me, and with the Anniversary Mods and the preamps I have all the headroom I need and to spare (which seems miraculous, but the HR-1 are the cat's meow for me).

The final puzzle piece was the 0C3--I never could get those to fit before but Will tugged my sleeve to the key: restructuring the gain between the components.

Steve and Bob have gotten me to a plateau I could not have dreamed of before this decade. I'm forever grateful and will continue to carry the torch.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #155 - 12/14/21 at 17:57:19
 
Things change. An audio friend convinced me to try some Synergistic Research Orange fuses. In my system I have an SR Blue in the P15, and all other fuses were Audio Magic Super fuses, which I really liked a lot. (All my Decware components had these fuses and my PS Audio components except for the P15 still have stock fuses, which PS Audio considers audiophile fuses, not the cheapest of possibilities).

So I put a pair of the Orange fuses  in the SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the Anniversary mods. About two full weeks of changes happened. At first I missed the Audio Magic. Then about four days in the Orange began to show me that they were different, perhaps not better. During the second week the Orange proved their worth, and they continued to impress.

The biggest differences between them was that there was a mid-bass film within the sound signature with the Audio Magic which went away with the Orange, and perhaps as a result the Orange provided a deeper imaging and sound stage, just a bit, but a noticeable bit.

This led me to a volley of tube rolling of the voltage rectification for the output tubes, and the voltage rectification for the components. I ended up with my trusty Arcturus 0B3 regulation tubes, and in the Monoblocks a pair of RCA 5V4G tubes. The RCA/Cunningham Type 80 globe remains in the CSP3 with the Anniversary mods.

As a result, another inch forward on the road to sonic bliss. I really like the frequency balance and sonic signature these changes have made and I roll along quite happily from disc to disc.

But in keeping with my true nature of restlessness . . . I ordered one of the new Purple fuses for my PS Audio P15 regenerator, and also a used Orange fuse to use in my Zen Line Conditioner in my audio visual system (which only has a stock fuse). The apple cart will begin to be upset tomorrow, but I'm pretty confident that replacing the Blue with a Purple will be a positive move. (The Blue will go into the P10 in my headphone system).
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #156 - 01/06/22 at 18:15:15
 
What an adventure a Decware system is. If you have an inclination to sonic exploration you just can't be bored.

I managed to score another of my PS Audio DirectStream DAC that is fully modded with new, better transformers and fitted with a power board that accommodates an outboard 12 Volt Linear Power Supply among other modifications.  As I have time before this arrives I spent some time thinking of how to reconfigure the set up to include the LPS and decided to do something I haven't for a while: try just one preamp in the system. And this time I found I preferred the sound of the system with just the ZTPRE, and not the ZTPRE and the CSP3 with Anniversary mods both in the system. I was always fidgeting with the CSP3 to get if just so and now (possibly because I'm now running 6085 in the ZTPRE and 6SN7 in the Monoblocks) there's a bit less of a compressed sound, a smidge more dynamic openness with just the ZTPRE. Let this simmer for a day and it's going to stay.

So I put the CSP3 in the audio/visual living room system in place of the CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods I have there. And again, a subtle improvement--I had a better fuse in the CSP3 for one thing and the change to the main system also freed up one of my best pairs of interconnects that I put into the living room system between CSP3 and Taboo Mk IV with Anniversary mods. . . . Overall a double win!

And now the CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods lost out in the musical chairs game. Hmmm. It's good to have options, one of which may be finding her a new home.

I'm looking forward to the incoming DirectStream DAC with all the modifications--word from owners are that these mods make a big difference. I plan on selling my trusty current one if I do prefer the new one--I have to pay for these toys somehow!

It's such a fascinating audio journey with these components. The Decware preamps, amps and speakers let me hear so much! Sometimes what I hear leads me into a less pleasant arena, but I can always find a way to a great sounding presentation and experience. I know you all know what I mean.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. Dick

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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #157 - 02/18/22 at 13:53:25
 
Amazing machines these--you can have so many different signatures just changing tubes. The one downside to the Monoblocks is one has to have TWO tubes. But the upside of just a bit more power is needed for me.

I've rolled various positions lately as my new improved front end led to some nice sonic subtle bits of discovery. With Westinghouse 0B3 Was nearly there but just a bit light in the lower frequencies. Rolling in a pair of RCA Type 80 short straight-shouldered rectifiers (I think these may have been the final evolution of this type?) set me right where I want to be.

I'm trying to resist the urge to pull the amps out, open them up, and roll in regulation tubes for the input. tubes. . . I haven't done that in some time, probably two years. And I'm resisting the urge to send my XTPE in for the 25th Anniversary mods, truly first world problems.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #158 - 03/16/22 at 15:18:52
 
Found another very cool signature by going back to the 0D3W type voltage regulation tube for the output tubes. I had a pair of Tung-Sol I don't think I ever used before and I paired these with the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifiers and have a very tight but slightly relaxed (if that makes sense) presentation that has a sweet treble and very open midrange, with taut yet impactful bass. Very nice dynamic contrasts.

Of course I'm not going to change a thing. (Yeah right). Really enjoying the presentation over a number of recordings.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. Dick

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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #159 - 04/21/22 at 14:40:57
 
Well of course I did change a thing . . .or two.

I ended up going back to the Arcturus 0B3 voltage regulation tubes for the output tubes--with some material the 0D3W were just too "tart and tight." The 0B3, especially this pair of bottle-shaped, always give me the warmth and ambiance I need regardless of recording.

And ever since I introduced the modded PS Audio DSD DAC into the system with its Farad Super3 power supply for the analog output I have been trying to find just the right power cable for the Super3. Until last week the best fit was the new Decware DHC-3 which is a fantastic power cable for the money. But I still was chasing a bit of a "silvery" sound that was just a tad too bright for my system and decided I would retry the very first power cable I tried with the Super3, the PS Audio Perfectwave AC-12 that is connected to all my other components but one. And darned if it didn't solve my "silvery" sound issue and become the very best fit.

I think what has transpired is that the DAC and the Super3 both needed quite a bit of break-in when I got it and I have managed to get to the "all it can be stage" and that cable I first didn't quite like was in fact perfect after seasoning.

I now just can't believe how amazing the system sounds and am spinning disc after disc with delight.  And all this is possible because these 25th Anniversary modded components are so transparent and also musical that I can hear and address the limitations of each stage of the system and benefit from every little minor improvement. Wholly cow these are the cat's meow, as Steve's cats know.

The DHC-3 ended up in my headphone only system powering the CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods I have newly installed there and man it is doing a fantastic job. A better job than a .5 meter PS Audio AC-12 I was using before had been doing. Synergy. . . it's an elusive thing, a devil sometimes to pursue for a number of reasons, but so satisfying to find.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #160 - 05/30/22 at 12:29:50
 
I wish I could leave well enough alone, but so much more than with the Push-Pull designs, these SE84UFO3 Monoblocks are like chameleons--they can be transformed with a single tube or with any adjustment to the gain "tapestry" feeding them, or even to different modes and settings of my power regenerator. . . and I keep exploring and finding whole different "amplifiers" in a way.

I use certain tubes as anchors. . . the tubes in my ZTPRE and my ZROCK2 have been stuck in there because every time I try another I lose too much of the "magic." A recent purchase of a super matched pair of Amperex 7062 with halo getters as inputs to the Monoblocks brought me a certain richness with a nice foundation of the lower frequencies that enticed me to move out the Sophia Aqua 274B rectifiers that had been in there a while for a pair of RCA/Cunningham Type 80 Globes and the synergy with all of these has put me closer to a fine analog sound than ever before, relaxing but drawing me in.

I'm going to leave this in place. Yeah, sure. For a while at least! In a few days I should have the pair of Steve's output tubes given the Cryotone treatment in stock, and this will be a great way to see what the treatment does to this already killer tube. Hope I like what it does more than the Cryotone 6SN7s. (I'll try those with the new output tubes too).
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #161 - 05/30/22 at 14:51:08
 
This thread has left me yearning to receive my modest system so I can begin the journey.
It's the journey not the destination
https://youtu.be/k3fz6CC45ok
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"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
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Earthbound
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #162 - 05/30/22 at 15:57:46
 
Likewise BicycleJoe. I’ve ordered the mk5, csp3 and zrock. The research and purchases, including Zu Soul Supreme speakers has reinvigorated my interest in music. It’s even made me enjoy my current system more. I rearranged the speakers and seating position recently and have enjoyed really listening to the music.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #163 - 07/25/22 at 16:29:37
 
Well Steve's output tubes from Cryotone mentioned above have been in use for hundreds of hours, and I did a comparison to my most recently used pair from Steve and there is a bit of a sonic improvement, I wouldn't say "game changing" by any means, but perhaps a bit smoother in the treble which is always welcome. The proof will be if I get years of use out of them. . . that will make them worth, gulp, four times the price or so.

The system sounds so good. I keep seeking a bit of lushness that I think I won't hear until my long wait is over and I have the Sarah 300B to listen to--I think that is the one element that distinguishes the two topologies and that I crave a bit. I've had to replace voltage regulation tubes for the input tubes and have RCA 0B2 in which are really nice, a touch more warmth and a smoothness that is endearing. And I've been rolling input tubes in the ZROCK2 and just can't unseat the Amperex pinched waist 7062 in there--any tube sounds good but these just have such a wide open sound and a transparency coupled with dynamic contrast that no other seems to approach. So I'm going to give up trying for a while.

I just keep marveling in this sound. My downstairs audio/visual system sounds really good as well, in large part because the large room gives me great sound and as my sources there aren't up to the same snuff as those in the main system, a ZBIT, ZROCK2 and CSP3 going into a DALAUDI DL2886 amp is a great set up for the (mostly video entertainment and news) material played through that system. In that system the ZROCK2 and the CSP3 have the 25th Anniversary mods. . .and so I get the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience.

I'm blessed with such great sound . . . and one day. . . the Sarah will be here to enrich my situation further.

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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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CAJames
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #164 - 07/25/22 at 18:17:32
 
Thanks Lon, that makes it easier for me to put off spending 500 bucks (gulp) on the Cryotone power tubes.
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JBzen
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #165 - 07/25/22 at 18:48:33
 
The comparison I been waiting for! I will not dare make any assumptions on your experience with aged cryo tubes Lon. Just, will put the purchase toward the bottom of potential upgrades. Thanks!
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CAJames
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #166 - 07/25/22 at 21:58:32
 
FWIW for a fraction of the price of the cryo tubes I'm getting great sound with Mullard EL822 power tubes and a 6CH6 -> EL84 adapter. The EL822 is a redesigned/upspec'd/ruggedized EL84 that the UK military used for radar and video.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Lon
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #167 - 07/26/22 at 00:35:14
 
That's cool. I've tried EL84, EL83 with adaptors, both in different brands, and many different Russian SV83 etc. and I find that I can tune my system best to the tubes I buy from Steve, and there is a slight sound quality boost using the Wathen tubes. Makes me not inclined to try another tube type. (I happen to like that Steve's output tubes utilize the Hazen Grid Mod too.) Now I get about a year out of my power tubes, whichever the type, in my Monoblocks and Taboo, and if I can get three to four times the longevity as Wathen tubes claim then it's a wash monetarily and I get a bit of a sonic boost too. We'll see. I may be using 300B tubes in the main system before the Wathen wear out, ideally.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
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Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #168 - 08/04/22 at 14:26:53
 
My task this week has been to roll input tubes on the monoblocks and see whether I need to make a change.

I took out the Wathen 6SN7-WC that I have been trying to like for over a month now with some success--with some tube complements they are more "neutral" than others. But this last run through of tubes in those positions have displaced them for now. I tried Amperex 6DJ8 which were quite nice, Gray Glass RCA 6SN7 which were really good, put 5670 with converter bases in and out pretty quickly (to me they had a "boxy" sound that didn't mesh well with my system), put in US and Holland made 7308s and the Holland 7308s (mine are RCA labeled) have stayed. There's just a body to the sound the Wathen tubes don't have that I find I prefer for all but the very very best recordings, which I confess I don't play that often.

A friend of mine whose ears I trusted keeps pushing me towards Mullard 7308s labeled RTC (French military) saying he thinks these are THE tubes that I would like. They aren't cheap. I took some birthday money and added to it and ordered a pair. . . I should get them possibly early next week. If they are as good as he claims. . . I'll be very happy and they'll probably stay in the Monoblocks.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
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Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #169 - 08/07/22 at 16:08:43
 
One recent development. . . a pair of EL83 tubes in converter bases is seducing me. I got in a pair of Philips made in Holland and they are the best of the three pairs I've tried (other two are Mullard and Adzam). I do miss an inner detail smidgeon that I think is the result of the loss of the Hazen Grid Mod playback, but there's that touch of lushness I keep seeking right there with only about ten hours on the tubes.

That gave me the opportunity to once again compare the tubes I last bought from Steve with the Cryotone version, this time in my Taboo Mk IV using my ZMF Ori headphones. There is a sonic difference, there's a touch of detail to the Cryotone that also means a bit more treble. A twist of the ZROCK2 can make the two pair sound almost identical.  . . . The real proof of the Cryotone worth will be longevity, something that "time will tell."
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #170 - 08/07/22 at 17:37:21
 
Lon this statement puzzled me, since these are the stock tubes and Steve's high bar Zen Triode design. I understand you waiting to see if the longevity life of the CG tube pans out. Still I didn't like this statement though. Don Wrote his new Cryogenic Rectifier is Quote: "Useful for tubes that tend to be on the harsh side like the 6N1P-EV and the 6P15P-EV."
I wouldn't think Steve would use the 6N1P-EV and the 6P15P-EV if they were harsh in the first place. Is that a problem with some of these two tubes?

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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #171 - 08/07/22 at 18:21:27
 
Well, I find that all tubes in a complement matter--I have some rectifiers that the stock tube is just right, as the rectifier is a tiny bit slower perhaps or richer sounding, and then some when there is, I wouldn't say "harsh" but "brighter," perhaps an "edge" to the sound of the stock output tubes because of that rectifier.

Now I have had a very ambivalent experience with the Cryotone tubes. Don even seemed miffed at me because I called the 6SN7-WC tube "bright" which he also accused me of calling "harsh" though I didn't. Some here, most who have tried them, think these Cryotone tubes are the cat's meow, whereas with the 6SN7-WC I felt I was hearing the emperor's clothes rustle more than anything. I persisted with the tube and I found a complement that they were pretty good in but after living with that complement for weeks I started rolling input tubes again and found others I preferred. C'est la vie, that's what tube listening is all about.

With my comparison of the tubes from Steve and the same output tubes given the Cryotone treatment from Wathen I found a slight increase in detail from the Cryotone, and a bit of an "edge." So perhaps the treatment is adding an element of harshness to a tube that can tend to be that way untreated? I don't know. Because I can change textures and sound character in a number of ways in my system (modes and settings on my regenerator, gain settings on source, preamp, ZBIT, monoblocks) and because I have the amazing ZROCK2 Steve's and Cryotone's can be made to sound almost identical. So the longevity will prove whether they are worth the three times plus price increase.

I saw that comment too, and because of his previous pronouncement about my experience with the 6SN7 types. .. I raised an eyebrow. It came back down though. We all experience things differently and that's why I find really the only way to tell how a tube will sound in your system is to try it out and give them ears.

But ulimately I wouldn't personally characterize those two tubes Steve used for so long as stock in his amps as "harsh." And I'm not inclined to try that rectifier or other Cryotone tubes right now.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #172 - 08/07/22 at 18:38:49
 
I am a year away from getting my amp but I tried a good time to research and look for a few special tubes although I wouldn't be able to test them until I receive my Rachel and ZP3.

I found this information helpful off of the Jesse brand site

There are other Russian versions of the 6SN7 tube. The most popular is the rare 6H8C metal base with "1578" printed on the glass. There are also Russian 6N8S in both metal and plastic base, that are considered inferior to the 6H8C.
There are other European versions of the 6SN7: most notably the rare ECC32, the ECC33, and the military CV-1988.
There is another European version of the 6SL7: the ECC35, and military types CV1984, CV1985, CV569.
There is another European version of the 5U4G: the GZ31.
There are other European versions of the 5Z4: the GZ32, GZ33, and the U77 may be found.
US: 5U4G = European GZ31 = Chinese 5Z4P, 5Z4G (see note below) = Russian 5Z3S, 5Z4S = Premium/industrial U77, U52, 53KU, W-E 274A/B, VT-244
US: 6AJ8 = European ECH81 = Chinese 6C12 = Russian: none
US: 6AK5 = European EF95 = Chinese 6J1 = Russian 6J1B = Premium/industrial 5591
US: 6AQ5 = European EL90 = Chinese 6P1(has 9 pin base, needs adaptor) = Russian unknown = Premium/industrial 6005, 6AQ5W, 6095, M8245, 6928, N727, BPM04, 6L31
US: 6AS7 = European 6080 = Chinese 6N5P = Russian 6N5P? = Premium/industrial 6080, 5998, 421A
US: 6AX7 - European none = Chinese 6N2, 6H2N = Russian 6N2P-EB, 6N2 pi
US: 6R4 = European EC81 = Chinese 6C11 = Russian: none
US: 5842 = European EC86, PC86 = Chinese unknown = Russian 6S3P = Premium version W-E 417A
US: 6688 = European E180F, E280F (this is closer to a 7722), EF861 = Chinese 6J9P = Russian 6J11, 6J11P, 6J11P-E, 6ZH11P-E
Note: The Chinese 5Z4, 5Z4P and 5Z4G can sometimes be replaced with a US NOS 5Z4, 5Y3GT, 5U4G, 5R4, and even 5AR4. The Chinese 5Z4 series has a 2 amp filament draw, some of these other tubes are higher. Most manufacturers using the 5Z4 can tell you which NOS tubes are approved for use in their equipment. Always check first!
The 6C33 Russian tube is another that has no Western OR Chinese sub. NOS Russian versions are the best, but are scarce and expensive. Versions that should work interchangably are the 6C33B, 6C33C, and the 6C18C, but check with your equipment dealer first!
The Chinese 6P1 and the Russian equivalent 6P1P also have no Western equal. The only other sub is the Russian 6N1N. These are all electrically like the USA 6AQ5, but have a 9 pin base, making adaptation difficult.
The Russian 6Pi14Pi is another version of the 6P14P and Chinese 6P14. CAUTION: Some amps designed around these Russian tubes make use of pin #1, with a voltage on that pin. NOS 6BQ5 and EL84 tubes are internally grounded at pin 1 and they will damage an amp designed for the Russian tubes if used! Check with your dealer to make sure you can use NOS 6BQ5/EL84 tubes if your amp comes stock with Russian tubes.
Russian 6N1P tubes SOMETIMES can be replaced with 6922, 7308, or 6DJ8 tubes. Some manufacturers approve this substitution, others do not. Check with them first. If the applied plate voltage of the 6N1P is less than 130 volts, then the substitution should work OK.
6H30, 6H30P, PI, or DR is a Russian tube with no exact Western subs. The Chinese 6N11 may work, but it is also low quality, so why bother? The pin connections are the same in the 6922, so if your unit does not exceed 125 volts on the tube plates, you may be able to use a much better NOS 6922. Check with your dealer or manufacturer.
12AX7 Chinese versions list both 6N2 and 6N4 types! Use caution as the 6N2 is also listed as a 6AX7 which would be a 6.3 volt heater. The internal pin connections of the 6N2 are the same as the type 6922. To use as a 12AX7 sub, pins 4 and 5 must be connected to heater power, and pin 9 to the second triode heater power. Specs on the 6N4 are unknown to us other than it is sold as a 12AX7 sub.
This list is by no means complete. E-mail or call us if you have questions. We will be adding to this list as more information becomes available.


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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #173 - 08/07/22 at 18:46:44
 
Yes, Brent Jesse's site can be quite helpful. I pretty much knew about the relevant 6922 types and usable rectifiers before I found his page, but his page has been very helpful for me with 12AU7 type variants.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #174 - 08/07/22 at 19:07:45
 
I have used 12AT7 & 12 AU7 in the phase inverter slot on Fender guitar amps. it mellows the tone a step from a higher gain AX7.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #175 - 08/07/22 at 19:26:20
 
I'm using a 12AU7 variant with converter bases in my ZTPRE, the 6085 tube, Amperex Holland. I've tried many sextets of tubes in the ZTPRE but these just won't come out. They give a perfect sound for my system imo. Of course the ZTPRE doesn't have a tube rectifier or two to roll, so that is a "fixed" sound to anchor around. I love this preamp and love it most with the 6085s.

I like big input tubes and I cannot lie.



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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #176 - 08/07/22 at 21:29:10
 
Lon said: "I like big input tubes and I cannot lie."
Cool

You have me wondering if I should give my old Lazarus another try. I switched back to sand (Yamaha, '87 pre) because I was getting a restrained feel with it. I had switched out the 12AX7s a couple of times, even tried the 12AU7s and finally, brought back the "old news Yamaha" and  gave up on the Lazarus.
The old Yamaha does a lot of the phono things about right in my set up. It disappears.
Yes, I should have higher grade phono gear, but I don't yet.

Now that my LP listening is better, I find myself grabbing an album rather than a CD more often.

I'm not familiar with that 6085 tube. You mention you buy tubes from eBay sometimes. Is that where your converter was found also?
What converter brand do you use for those?
I'm all in with finding the right tube compliment.






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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #177 - 08/07/22 at 22:00:54
 
I get almost all my tubes and adaptor/converter bases from eBay. I look for US vendors if I can and I have had literally ZERO issues in the last few decades. There are quite a few vendors for 12AU7 to 6922 tubes, and 6085 can be found. The caveat though is that they are expensive. I mean. . .they cost about as much as CRYOTONE tubes! Wink I really like them--they give a bit more gain and there's a huge wide open mid-range when I use them in the ZTPRE. Every other tube type I try I just miss the 6085, can't take them out. I have the same situation with the 7062 in the ZROCK2.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #178 - 08/07/22 at 23:03:56
 
Thanks, Lon.
I quickly found some $72 NOS Hungarian to try, but I also saw the $375 ones as well.
My response to the caveat is that I don't need six, only four for my rig.

Since I have not tried these, you know I have to.
Just not sure how long it will take to get some age on them, since things are working so well right now.

... and I'm about to tear everything down and change speakers to the F15s for a few weeks. Those are due to arrive in two days.
I can't do two major changes at one time!

I want to hear the first few burns, though and go from there.
Probably get the 6085s in hand and back burner testing for a while as I have my cryo'ed rectifiers.

More curious about the Lii drivers at this point.
Undecided
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #179 - 08/07/22 at 23:18:49
 
Yes, sometimes you do have to.  :) I have some Tesla ones as well. . . you'll find them "light and airy" in comparison to the Amperex from Holland. Interesting tubes none-the-less.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #180 - 08/07/22 at 23:39:41
 
Honestly, ever since we moved, I have spent the past seven months playing musical chairs, switching speakers around in my new room.
I didn't bring any of the big studio monitors in. My room is modest 12'X14' and overly live at first.
I have come full circle back to my age old preferred 2x15+8" full range, OB.
So, what did I do? I changed them.
What I have now works better than ever.

So, what am I going to do? Change them out for something new I have not heard before, the Lii full range 15" drivers.
Sometimes you just have to.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #181 - 08/08/22 at 00:30:11
 
I've had periods like that in the past. I'm lucky to have three systems sorted out and I'm really just playing around with tubes and other minor things. It was hard enough, especially in this 104 year old expanded cottage and a minimalist wife.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #182 - 08/08/22 at 01:47:04
 
Thanks for your tips on the tubes it made me pull out my stash and I have quite a few NOS Mullard, Millard, DayStrom, RCA, Philips ,Telefunkin AT7's & AU7's& AX7's, 4024 & 4025's as well as a bunch of Tung-Sol Russian 12AX7's. Seems the tube I have the most of are EF 86's.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #183 - 08/08/22 at 03:48:21
 
Man, oh man…..I see I have quite a journey ahead of me, considering the first tubes I’ll own will come with my. MKV.

I guess I should look at it as a long term project.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #184 - 09/13/22 at 13:23:46
 
Yes, it's a long-term project. More than four years with my Monoblocks and I'm still exploring tube choices and finding so many different sounds and textures.

It's been a focus on rectifiers for me since I changed from 0B2 to 0C2 type (British equivalent) as the input tube regulation. I've found that with gain adjustments between source, ZTPRE, ZBIT and the Monoblocks I can make almost any rectifier sound great. I've gone through 5R4 and 5Y3 types and now am using a pair of Sylvania 5U4GB with a rectangular frame atop that sound very nice. These are rivaling my gold standard Sophia Electric Aqua 274B.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #185 - 10/01/22 at 21:51:26
 
CA James, I just this week got in CV2382 tubes and converter bases, and it's interesting that they are designed for video use the way that the SV83 and 6P15 are.

I only have a few hours on them and they haven't seduced me yet, I think I'll next need to try them with different rectifiers. But well made handsome tubes. I'll see how they are with a lot more hours on them.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #186 - 10/03/22 at 04:23:01
 
Yes, mine sound pretty rough out of the box. I’d say 10 hours should be enough to know whether you are on the right track or not.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #187 - 10/03/22 at 15:40:07
 
I have fifteen or so hours on them now and have rolled in a different pair of rectifiers (Sylvania 5U4G) and a different tube in the ZROCK2 (Amperex 5814A) and there's a nice interesting sound produced. Very similar, subtly different, than the Cryotone 6P15 I have been using.

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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #188 - 10/03/22 at 15:54:17
 
What about the voltage regulator?

My experience with the tube was immediately it was different than all the other power tubes I had tried. The sound was bigger and more dynamic, although pretty rough, and lacking detail. After 10ish hours it smoothed out and and sweetened up while maintaining all the dynamics it had initially.

As for rectifiers, I've pretty much only used it with my standard GZ33. If you have a GZ32 or 34 (aka 5V4G or 5AR4) in your stash that might be an interesting roll. I might try that today...

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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #189 - 10/03/22 at 16:36:05
 
I'm using Sylvania 0B3 (coke bottle) as the voltage regulator. After cycling about five this last few weeks I'm sticking with this one.

I'm finding these new output tubes dynamic, very dynamic if I use it with tubes that give me a less favorable tonal balance, but I needed to tame that. I find the Cryotone 6P15 and the 6P15 from Steve to be similarly dynamic and detailed.

I have 5R4 and 5RAR4 that I have been rotating lately of varying types but these Sylvania 5U4G are giving me the tonal balance I like. I had been using RCA 5R4 fight before the Sylvania, the Sylvania put it all into perspective.

I think the tubes will change a bit more in the next 20 hours or so. I think I do miss a bit the effect of the Hazen Grid Mod though.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #190 - 10/03/22 at 19:03:34
 
Well, just as a comparison I put the Cryotone output tubes back in . . . and immediately relaxed into the music. Better bass and warmth, no decrease in dynamics. That sense of "openness" that I attribute to Christmas Coming Early is back.

I'll put the EL822 into the Taboo for a while and get some more hours on them.
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #191 - 10/04/22 at 03:46:36
 
Today I fired up for the first time my fully Anniversary modded SE84C+ that I just got back from Decware.  Before I sent it in, it had a issue with the left channel playing no music.  It was purchased used from a forum member and I only had a chance to listen to it briefly before it went in for an overhaul.  The stock tubes were about a year old.  

The audio chain is streaming Qobuz from a Google Chromecast audio into my Schitt Bifrost True Multibit DAC, through MAC Ultra Silver+ cables, into my ZSTAGE via Decware DAG cables, and into the Zen amp with a pair of MAC QUAD Silver cables.  The Zen amp is powered by a custom power cable built by forum member Will and fed into my PSAudio Soloist outlet on a home run circuit.  Running them on my ERR speakers with the DH labs Silver Sonic T-14 speaker wires.  

So what are my first impressions… The short answer is I’m speechless.  The upgrades totaled close to $800 which included a new tube set and warranty transfer….it was more than well worth the cost.

Out of the box it’s very different from when I sent it in. So what do I hear…. The bass is full and tight on most tracks.  The highs are crisp with a little bit of a dry and clinical presentation….but not in a bad way.  The mids can be a bit recessed at times, but that’s due to my speakers, which tend to be the culprit.  Hopefully my new Miflex caps I bought will help with that once I get a chance to wire them into the ERR’s.  

The surprise….the backgrounds are black as the ace of spades.  It’s quiet with nice decay and all of the detail coming through.  From what the guys here have said…that’s the Anniversary mods shining through.  I would have never thought this little Zen amp would power my ERR’s sufficiently for my every day listening levels in my new space, but it does so with headroom in reserve.  Late night listening sessions…no problem.   I’m gonna keep this one short for now and see what tomorrow brings.  I’ll repost this in the UFO section  

Dom


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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #192 - 10/10/22 at 14:28:31
 
One of these days I'll set my ERRs back in the system and see how they sound now with the Anniversary Mods in the Monoblocks and the ZROCK2. Glad that your newly returned reborn amp is driving your ERRs so well!

Things are very different in my system now. I wanted to try the Wathen 6SN7 again and see if I can make them fit the system. Changed up rectifiers, and voltage regulators, tubes in the ZTPRE, and the gain structure of the system and. . . I still just can't relax into the sound of those tubes. Too tart for me.

So since I had cycled through so much I kept on trying different tube complements and at the moment I'm back to an all 7308 signal chain with six Amperex in the ZTPRE and French military Mullards in the amps. Had to move to a pair of Sylvania 5U4G to get the right blend, along with a pair of Westhinghouse  0B3. I have an Amperex 12AU7 in the ZROCK2.

Nice sound, a different signature than I had before, a touch laid back soundstage wise with a crisp attack on the notes. Will settle back with this arrangement for a while and play a variety of material.

These components are just so amazing--they reveal so much.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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jec3504
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #193 - 10/10/22 at 15:10:57
 
Hey Lon,

Purchased a quad set of Wathen 6SN7. Did run them in the Torii first for a day. In the Torri I would agree with the tart sound. Thought about using a 0B3 with them. My goal was to use them with my preamp. Was using RCA side getter 6SN7 GTAs in the preamp for the non holographic gain structure. In my preamp they are super quiet, smooth and have great instrument separation. They add a lot a presence in the sound.

Your description of them along with speaking to Don lead to the most satisfying tube purchase. Fun going after a tube for a specific purpose and then have them perform way beyond expectations.



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Lon
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #194 - 10/10/22 at 15:13:18
 
If you got them to work for you that's great. Not my luck, no matter what I used them with. I can't really run 6SN7 in my ZTPRE, so it's just the amps to use them in, though they don't really gel in my other two systems either.

Really enjoying the setup right now though. So many different possible presentations from the system!
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jec3504
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #195 - 10/10/22 at 15:48:14
 
Quote:
Really enjoying the setup right now though. So many different possible presentations from the system!


That's fantastic Lon. Nice summary of the your experience. Having trouble finding Westhinghouse 0B3. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Have a great day,

Joseph
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Lon
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #196 - 10/10/22 at 15:54:53
 
I got a few pairs from eBay. They are just a bit darker than the Sylvania I generally used before. I have looked for RCA 0B3 but have never seen any, I don't know if they were ever a part of the RCA lineup. These Westinghouse sound a lot like I imagine the RCA might.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #197 - 10/14/22 at 16:30:20
 
CA, after a lot of hours in the Taboo I put the CV2382/EL822 back in the Monoblocks. . . and they lasted an hour before I pulled them out.

They just are 'hazier' and a bit smoother than the Wathen 6P15P or those same from Steve. I just don't get "all the sound" I do from those. I think it's the lack of the Hazen Grid Mod, after living more than a dozen years with output tubes that take advantage of that I find it hard to be without. I enjoyed output tubes in the Torii that didn't enjoy the mod, but I just miss the differences too much in the Zen amps.

I have a pair of 6CH6 on the way to me as that is the tube that the bases are set to convert to 6922, and I don't think it's exactly the same as these. That will be my last experiment with power tubes for these amps--I'll stick with the 6P15P type unless by some fortunate alignment of the stars the 6CH6 proves to be a better tube.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #198 - 12/03/22 at 16:48:20
 
Man. . .the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience. . . wow. With tube rolling and other tuning/tailoring factors it's like having multiple amplification/playback experiences. Never gets tiring!

After a year of rectifier exploration I've decided the best all rounder for me is the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B. They just have a big open sound unlike any other with my favored tube complements.

And I'm back to anchoring my sound in 7308 tubes. I have four US made and two English made in my ZTPRE, and two Holland made in my amps, and it seems a great blend.

I keep waffling on tubes for the ZROCK2, each one has a a distinct advantage, but overall I have my tube complements locked in, fabulous sound, and I am trying to just leave them be and enjoy the amazing sound. And in the future. . . the 300B. . .another entirely different tube adventure ahead.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 23305
Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience
Reply #199 - 12/12/22 at 20:05:37
 
Well I did leave things alone for just over a week! That might be a record.

I still just had a tonal tightness that bothered me, that I kept trying to correct with input tubes in the ZROCK2. But. . .I decided to try moving some 7308 around so I put the French in the Monoblocks and the Dutch in the ZTPRE and that was an improvement.Then I moved away from the standard 12AU7 type in the ZROCK2 and popped in one of my oldest compatible tubes, a late fifties 6085 with a D getter and pinched waist, which I believe is the earliest of that tube type. That has proven to be the missing ingredient. Everything is quite nice. . .even very crankable . . . right now.

Now to leave it alone for months til the 300B is on hand. Yeah, right. I can . . .try.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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