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Upgrade Tonearm on Thorens TD-150 or ? (Read 4821 times)
Ron
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Posts: 229
Upgrade Tonearm on Thorens TD-150 or ?
10/01/17 at 13:44:45
 
My setup is:

Thorens TD-150 -> ZP3 -> ZROCK -> Torii Jr -> HR-1

The TD-150 is upgraded a bit, RB-202 Tonearm, Cardas Wiring Upgrade, New Plinth, MusicHall Cruise Control 2.0.

So I currently have a few things going on:

1. Footfall issues with the Thorens TD-150
2. Belt Slipping on Startup (Annoyance Mostly)
3. Undecided if I want to move to a 2M Bronze to a MC Cart (Hana ?)
4. Upgrade tonearm to Jelco 750D?

My main questions are:

Is it worth upgrading the tonearm/cart on the TD-150 or should I look at a different table?

Is something like a MusicHall 9.3, ClearAudio Performance, or GEM PolyTable going to sound significantly better?

All of the above I would have with a MC cart, is the move to MC going to be groundbreaking?

Any insight would be very helpful, I am reluctant to put more money into the TT due to the footfall issues. I have never had an issue with my previous non-suspended designs. That is why I am intrigued by the PolyTable.

Adding isolation might be throwing good money after bad.

Thoughts?
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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Syd
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Posts: 1534
Re: Upgrade Tonearm on Thorens TD-150 or ?
Reply #1 - 10/03/17 at 12:56:28
 
Hi Ron, the footfall prob is just about rigidity, the deck feet are too stiff. A good set of springs will sort it out. Sat on a simple platform supported with springs will not only stop the arm jerking but also greatly improve performance by draining vibratitions in an efficient lossless operation. DIY or there are some inexpensive spring units out there.
I'd do that first as the Thorens is a deck I haven't owned but would certainly like to have. Belt slippage sounds like a maintainance issue.
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Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s, Arcam CD33, Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains substation, M & K subwoofer, Belden 8402 interconnects.
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Archie
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Posts: 2731
Re: Upgrade Tonearm on Thorens TD-150 or ?
Reply #2 - 10/03/17 at 17:33:26
 
I'd like to second Syd's recommendation for a spring platform under the TT (all components, actually).  I use a homemade one under mine and the TT already has Isonoe footers (which are very good isolators).  I can pound as hard as I can on the main TT support (very solid, built-in cabinet) and I can't hear it through the pickup, let alone make things jump.  One thing about spring isolation to consider is that pure springs alone still allow higher frequencies to pass through into the component.  I always top my platforms with a compliant material to damp out the frequencies let through by the springs.  That's why the combination of springs and Isonoes work well together.

My understanding of the spring platform is that they don't damp-out or "drain" away vibrations but rather they don't allow frequencies outside of the fundamental vibration frequency to pass through in the first place.  I have other tweaks to help with air-borne vibrations but they don't seem to be a factor for me anyway.

In my opinion, when induced vibration is eliminated at the source, a "poor" table can become a great table.  First isolate the table to see what improvement you get in sound with your existing cart.  I use an Ortofon Jubilee on a Technics 1200 Mk2 table but with all of the table mods I feel justified.  On a stock table with no isolation I think I'd be wasting money.

I'm not familiar with the Thorens table design but if the suspension isn't tuned right it could exacerbate rather than help with footfalls.  Oh, and buy a new belt.   Smiley
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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AKABibbleup
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Posts: 5
Re: Upgrade Tonearm on Thorens TD-150 or ?
Reply #3 - 10/01/20 at 17:22:48
 
Many good suggestions from others on limiting footfall effect. Suggest starting with what's easy and cheap to experiment with. Dave A. at vinyl nirvana has new replacement spring kits for the TD 150 @ $45 US. He Stocks replacement belts (if yours seem that tension is incorrect) and lots of Thorens parts.

Not affiliated but bought my VN'ified AR-XA from him (very happy) I'd  probably need to spend restored and upgraded TD-150 money to hear a difference, thus no immediate reason for me to swap tables.
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cmdc
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Posts: 52
Re: Upgrade Tonearm on Thorens TD-150 or ?
Reply #4 - 10/16/20 at 18:39:20
 
I have four Thorens tables, including a 150 and the closely related TD160.  All are capable of really exceptional performance.  The 160 was my first Thorens and my first serious record player.  I got it off Craigslist for $400, and when I first tried to replace it with a newer table, I struggled to find anything that would match it (to my ears) for less than $1400.  So, you've definitely got alot of room to grow with it. From my experience with both, the thoughts below would apply as readily to the 150 as the 160.  

I agree with others that replacing the springs is easy, cheap and very worthwhile.  In addition to springs and feet, Dave at Vinyl Nirvana also sells Thorens belts, and it's worth spending ~$35 for a new one.

To improve isolation, particularly if you have hardwood floors, here are several things that have worked for me:

* You can add a simple butcher block isolation platform pretty inexpensively, and they make a huge difference.  If you want still more isolation, the GoldenSound DH cones work extremely well, and aren't prohibitively expensive.  

* For a faster and cheaper option, setting 2x2 lego blocks under the existing Thorens feet makes an immediate and very noticeable improvement for pennies.  I won't speculate here about why this works, but it's worked without fail for me under a wide range of equipment.

I would try these simple tweaks first before taking a dive into something new.

All this said, if you have $1400-$1500 and want to invest in something with maybe a longer upgrade path, you have alot of options.  I eventually displaced my TD160 with a ClearAudio Champion, which you can find used for a bit less than that.  Or, if you're willing to consider a vintage table, you can get a nicely restored Thorens TD 125 or SOTA Sapphire for that amount and have a really outstanding front end.  (The TD125 outperforms the ClearAudio Champion at my house, and the SOTA at least matches it.)  

I've run both the ClearAudio and the TD125 with the ZP3 and they're an excellent match.  (And if you add in Randy's Lii F15 OBs, it gets even better).

If your budget is higher, as the other tables you mention suggests, you should seriously consider a TD 124. The difference between it and every other table I've owned or heard is profound.

Finally, on the question of moving from MM to MC:  I spent years committed to MM and MI, (and a piezoelectric on the 160) because they were simpler and less hassle than MCs.  I tried a couple of inexpensive but well-regarded MCs on the 160 early on, but quickly went back to piezoelectric and MM carts, because they sounded better with my other equipment.  

In the ensuing years, I've owned and loved several top tier Clearaudio and SoundSmith carts, up to the Charisma V2 and Voice, respectively.  

I got my first MC early this year to go with a TD124. Having finally made the switch to MCs, I have to grudgingly admit that, at the mid-high end at least, the ones I have are better than comparably priced MMs.  However, this comes with the huge caveat that, once you add an MC, you will likely also need a Step Up Transformer, and an additional set of interconnects.  All of which adds cost and complexity.

For example, I'm currently running my ZP3 with MMs, because I couldn't get the right match with my SUT for the MC cartridges I tried with it.  This is not a weakness of the ZP3, just a mismatch between the SUT I have, and the one I would need to make the ZP3 sing with an MC.

I hope this helps.  In any event, hold onto that Thorens whatever you decide.  Audio forums are filled with folks who let one go, then regretted it after.

Happy Listening.

Carroll



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