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Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen (Read 17604 times)
Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #100 - 06/04/19 at 20:33:23
 
Cool. I'm glad you've found alternatives and sorry your Sophias crapped out on you.

My four Sophias are going strong and I have actually over the past week rotated a lot of Type 80s, a pair of 5AR4, a pair of GZ32, a pair of the Valve Art 274V, a pair of 5U4G and 5V4G and a number of 5Y3 and I keep coming back to the Sophias that just seem to do what this tube you've fallen for does: tie all the complement together and elevate them. I hope my Sophias keep going . . . and I'm probably going to pick up another for the one component I'm using that doesn't have one in place, my CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods.
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #101 - 06/05/19 at 10:38:08
 
I still have not been able to hear the Type 80’s on my UFO25...  After reading the Forum’s re: Type 80 rectifiers, I ordered a few from eBay (Cunningham RCAs).  Jim (rivieraranch) was kind enough to send me an adaptor; yet USPS messed it up and sent it to the wrong address first, and I only received it after I left the country for summer.  So still wondering how it will sound on my system...

Apart from this, I keep on coming back to Sophia Aqua 274B even though NOS Mullard GZ32’s are still serious contenders.  I had high expectations for Sophia’s 5U4G and it is good tube, yet not close to the 274B.  If the Type 80s sound better, the rectifier problem would have been solved forever!  For cheap, at least!

Cheers,

Alper
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JOMAN
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #102 - 06/05/19 at 16:07:07
 
Hey Alper,
Hang on to that GZ32 even if it doesn’t become the go to rectifier as it does certain things that are unique to it and once in a while you may want to enjoy those attributes.  I almost sold off the remaining ones I have and that would have been a mistake.

After reading your post I popped the GZ32 into my UFO25 and as a result it is now a permanent fixture in my tube inventory for the UFO25.  My system is different from yours in that I have the CSP3 and this has become a critical component that influences the choice of the tube complement in my UFO25 especially since I tried the AWV 5AS4G.

To decide between a Type 80 and another type of rectifier is not that easy as each make of 80 is a little different from another make.  I ended up with AWV Type 80 (ST Shape) in my UFO25.  This morning I tried the GZ32, my curiosity was peaked after your post.

As a result I will have to spend a lot more time with both before coming to a conclusion as to which will be preferred.  In comparison the GZ32 is a little ‘darker’ with the best extended bass of all the ones I have tried.  The top end is on par with the Type 80.  The type 80 decay is better.  The GZ32 has a little more over all density to it top to bottom.  This makes percussive instruments have more impact.  Both are as fast but the decay of the Type 80 makes it seem ‘lighter on it’s feet’, a little more ‘air’.

Soundstage depth, width and layering are on par and the best so far in my system and room, huge and immersive.  The better decay of the Type 80 makes the venue more apparent in live recordings.  Voices have a little more emotion with the Type 80 and a little more density with the GZ32.

In both cases I’m listening at the same volume setting which I would say is at the high end of the lower level.  I have yet to be able to hear all that at that volume level which speaks volumes about the UFO25.

I think you’re in for a treat...
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #103 - 06/06/19 at 13:36:43
 
Hey John,

GZ32’s are definitely there to stay!  Back in the day, I used to use them with my TORII mkII which I sold to a friend later on.  I remember buying a pair from Upscale Audio who was reluctant to sell them to me, as the owner was not familiar with Decware at the time and he thought I would just use them on a guitar amp or so.  As one of them blew, I had to switch to another set though before selling the amp.  After I got the ones from you, I am holding on to them for sure.  

There is always this ‘grace’ to those tubes, if it ever means anything.  Depending on my taste and hearing at the time, they are always a safe bet for me with overall balance and articulation.  

Cheers,

Alper
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JOMAN
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #104 - 06/07/19 at 13:25:54
 
Alper,
Yesterday I had the GZ32/CV593 in for the day.  Currently I’m recovering from my 2nd knee replacement so I’ve got time to do some extensive listening.

One aspect of the GZ32 surprised me as I haven’t listened to it for some time.  The separation of voices, superb! Not that I don’t get separation of voices with other rectifiers but not to the degree that happens with the GZ32/CV593.

The type 80 is back in and I was able to improve the results in that aspect by changing the input tube in CSP-3, but not to the equivalent degree of the GZ32, very good and acceptable, but not the same.

It seems that the Mullard is becoming a benchmark for certain attributes against which I can roll to wring out the best from a combination of other tubes.
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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #105 - 06/07/19 at 17:25:37
 
Interesting how our systems are all different and with different rooms and tastes we have differing results. I just don't get the same warm and fuzzy feelings from my pair of Mullard GZ32s and I actually enjoy the similar RCA 5V4Gs that I have a bit more.

I am rolling rectifiers in my CSP2+ that I had upgraded with the Anniversary mods right now, and have an RCA Type 80 in there now that I like a bit more than a Cunningham I had in earlier this week. I'm considering selling some tubes to get one more Sophia Electric Aqua 274B for that preamp, so far nothing has beat it in any of my components, though the Type 80 does have an appeal.
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JOMAN
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #106 - 06/08/19 at 01:39:58
 
Actually Lon I don’t think that we are not that far apart with respect to the GZ32.  There are different variations of the Mullard GZ32 but that aside despite the strengths of the M-GZ32 it doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzy feeling that you mention and that is why it’s not in my UFO25 now.

Since the unfortunate ‘events’ with the Sophia 274B I’ve been retracing some of my previous listening experiences in order to once again arrive at that ‘warm and fuzzy’ state.  The Sophia did do that job very well first in my SE84UFO2 and then in my UFO25.  Now that job is being done very well with the Type 80 but with a change of input tube in my CSP-3.  In fact in some aspects a tad better.

As I was retracing my steps I put the GZ32 in so as to refresh my memory and I was very impressed.  So as part of this re-direction I will spend some more time with it because if I can get it to go from impressed to warm and fuzzy it will accomplish one other objective that I have set.

I’m putting together two options that will get me into that ‘warm and fuzzy’ place.  A plan B if you will, just in case. Obviously the two options will not be identical in all aspects and they don’t have to be.

For now new production tubes will not be part of this re-direction, whether they be Sophia, EML, Psvane, TJ Full Music etc.  Strictly NOS and not necessarily big dollar stuff either, with the exception of a possible U52  ;).

‘Warm and Fuzzy’ struck a chord.  It has to be a big part of where I end up and I’ve got a ways to go for Plan B.

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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #107 - 06/08/19 at 02:35:24
 
I'm sorry your Aquas went south so fast. It's not been my experience and I haven't read of any other early failures like that. To be honest I think if one were to go south on me. . . I'd buy a new one.

This is the only rectifier that really gives me whatever I need for a complement of tubes. I can change a voltage regulation tube, or an input tube, or even power tubes (though I haven't explored this as thoroughly as the red-tipped power tubes from Steve seem the very best option clearly) and get great, if different sound, in a all-encompassing way that none of the other rectifiers does give me. It and the power tubes from Steve are the anchor tubes for me now and in effect they are my plan A and plan B. I have tried so many different rectifiers, and there is not another one that does what the Aqua does.

I'm hoping mine continue to give me great service but the sound is so "right" with them for me that even if I didn't get much more than a year out of them I'd probably just buy a replacement. A remarkable design and a pudding full of proof for me.

I like the Type 80 but it's very much of a "type" for me and takes a lot of work to choose tubes around them and still doesn't give me what the Aqua does. The Aqua is almost "not there" in the way that my ZTPRE (which does NOT have a tube rectifier) is almost "not there." That feeling I get from these is so satisfying. Man these preamps and amps can really deliver.
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Alex
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #108 - 03/13/20 at 09:08:33
 
It seems like I will try out this 80 tube everyone is talking about. Does anyone know of a reputable source I can buy an 80 tube from?

Thanks audiophiles.
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #109 - 03/13/20 at 10:56:42
 
Hello Alex,
Any of the usual vendors should have some. In addition, there's Ebay          ( which is where I bought mine ).
FWIW, I'm building a new all DHT amp that uses a different rectifier and won't need the stash of type 80 tubes that I have here ( 10 + or so ). I was going to start posting them on Ebay and Audiogon. Let me now if you might be interested.
I've got both straight glass and globes.

Cheers,           Crazy Bill
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Alex
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #110 - 03/13/20 at 14:03:38
 
Thanks for the response crazy Bill. Yes, I’ll be interested. Is there a difference in sound with the straight tube vs the globe?
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Dana
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #111 - 03/13/20 at 14:45:43
 
Hey Bill
Count me in as interested in a 80 globe.
Dana
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #112 - 03/13/20 at 14:47:06
 
Haven't got a clue Alex, as I never put either a globe or ST shape in my SE84B or ZP3. They are the older varieties and I didn't want to chance blowing them up, as both amps hit them harder than what they should be. The first cap in the PS is higher in value than recommended. But many users have had no problem. Just haven't made the time to modify the PS to make them safe for the globes. Soon.
I actually have all three versions.  Globe, ST, and straight. I took photos but can't figure out how to post them here

Bill
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #113 - 03/13/20 at 14:49:27
 
So noted Dana. I'll get back
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Alex
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #114 - 03/13/20 at 14:57:44
 
Sent you a pm Crazy Bill
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Alex
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #115 - 03/13/20 at 15:09:55
 
Thanks Crazy Bill. How much will you be selling them?
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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #116 - 03/13/20 at 16:31:15
 
There is a difference between the three different types. . . . Can depend on make and which component they are in but. . . the globe is generally a "bolder" more spacious sound, the straight shouldered a tighter, more focused, often warmer sound, and the ST is somewhere in between. That's been my general experience with Type 80s from RCA, Cunningham, Arcturus and one Philco.
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #117 - 03/13/20 at 17:01:53
 
Hello Alex,
That depends what I paid for them. The only ones I remember off the top of my head are the globes @ $ 75.00/ea. The rest were less. The older the tube the more expensive it was. I will sell them for what I paid for them plus shipping to your location. The two Sylvanias were used less than $ 50 hours so I'll take some bucks off. I'll try to put a list together.

All are NOS or test as NOS
Bill
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Alex
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #118 - 03/14/20 at 00:14:37
 
Cool. I’d like to buy one of the globe 80”s from you. Can anyone please tell me what the other two front bulbs of the SE84UFO2 controls? I wouldn’t mind upgrading those bulbs as well.
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My Name is Earl
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #119 - 12/03/20 at 23:01:58
 
Thanks to Kevin’s site (I think 🤔 - this is costing me a bit of coin!) I have collected a few Type 80s, though not the older globe construction. Until this evening I had not really given any of them a serious listen. But, as I just wrote to Kevin in an email, this evening I inserted the first to try, a Sylvania ST. To say I was shocked is an understatement - and shocked in a very good way. I thought my Rogers Canada 5U4GB was an improvement over a 274B from Tubestore, which it was, and the Tubestore 274B was an improvement over the stock tube.

To be brief, there is an increase in gain and energy. Bass is fuller without losing much, if any precision. Mids and upper frequencies retain their character but may be a bit improved in clarity/resolution. Vocals are more forward without being too much. Transients and decay are greatly improved.

Next up is an Arcturus 80 ST. My current speaker setup is two pair of Large Advent, stacked, which are due for replacement, TBD.

Holy crap I can hardly believe the improvement!
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lobo
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #120 - 12/04/20 at 22:04:37
 
The RCA ST type is one of my favorites.
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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #121 - 12/04/20 at 22:14:20
 
Just wait until you try an RCA or Arcturus or Cunningham Type 80 GLOBE!
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #122 - 12/09/20 at 18:02:34
 
I have yet to try the more expensive rectifiers mentioned here, but a few days ago I received a national union ribbed plate type 80 and it has truly improved the amp in every way. Better low and high extension, a lot more detailed and forward, but still natural. I decided to go with this cheaper NU ($14 on eBay) as I’ve spent a lot on my system recently, and didn’t want to shell out $70+ for a rectifier. This tube is miles ahead of the stock 274b, electro harmonix 5U4GB, and JAN 5Y3GT I’ve tried. This is a great option if anyone is looking for an inexpensive but significant improvement (these are also less expensive than all the other new tubes I’ve tried in this amp). I will definitely try a radiotron 80 and GZ32/CV593 at some point, but for now this is a great option I’d recommend to anyone on a budget.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #123 - 01/16/21 at 18:02:03
 
Friends

I'm new to the forum and I found this post about 80 interesting, since I use it in my projects and it really is an excellent tube.
But it cannot be used in a 274B or 5U4G socket at risk of burning.
I believe that it is necessary to modify the power supply of Decware to use the 80 and especially the 80 globe.
I don't have the Decware circuits, but if the power supply is a standard type, using a globe is suicide.

A hug

Aldovan
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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #124 - 01/16/21 at 19:10:55
 
Well, I have used Globe type 80 in my SE84UFO Monoblocks, CSP3, CSP2+ and Taboo Mk IV with ZERO Issues and lots of sonic benefits. I know that Steve uses these on the components as well. So I do believe they are appropriate electrically for these Decware components.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #125 - 01/16/21 at 20:16:04
 
Can you post the power supply schema here?
Only then can I say whether it is possible or not.
I even saw in the posts that some people lost globe valves.
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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #126 - 01/16/21 at 20:45:57
 
I can't do it. Perhaps Steve will want to. All I can say is I know they work in my own systems, and I don't perceive any loss of tube life.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #127 - 01/16/21 at 20:56:39
 
Well, I just passed on the information.
I got the Zen Tabbo scheme for 2005 and I wouldn't use the 80 in this amplifier without making a change to the power supply.
In the other amplifiers I will need to check.

Good luck.
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Lon
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #128 - 01/16/21 at 21:18:28
 
Fine. I and others have been using this tube type without issue--although I must say I realize now I have been using them with components that have the 25th Anniversary mods. Perhaps that is why they work so well.

You have many other choices.

Steve's photo of the SE84UFO25 with Type 80.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #129 - 01/16/21 at 23:37:04
 
Hello Steel Lab. As far as I know, 47 uF rectifier caps are standard for many Decware amps. I know for sure they were in my Torii IV and CSP3, as well as in pictures of an earlier Rachel. My Torii III has 33uF PS caps. And both Toriis have chokes to help some with the inrush.

I read recently that Steve has lowered the Torii Jr rectifier cap from 47 uF to 8 uF to better accommodate more rectifiers. In my Torii IV, I am now using Clarity TC 45 uF for the input transformer/rectifier PS cap, bypassed with a .1 Miflex Alum/oil, a 0.022 Russian FT2 Teflon, and a Mallory M150 0.01. Though only a little lower value, I wonder if this physically quite large film cap helps with inrush from a cold start.

I have actually used some slow heating late 50s Russian 5C4S = 5Z4 = 5Z4G rectifiers, not for extended periods, but many shorter periods, and they are rated for a 5 uF filter cap!

Filter cap ratings as your only guide, Type 80s should not work in many Decware amps. And some folks have had problems, but I am like Lon. I have used type 80s for extended periods in my Torii and CSP3, and I have had no failures yet. I also prefer the bigger sounding Globes, especially Philcos. They are more open/neutral than the Cunninghams I have.
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will
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #130 - 01/17/21 at 00:26:27
 
It was funny, I put some 80 Globes in the Torii yesterday and stumbled onto this thread today.

I have been revisiting some rectifiers I have not used in a while trying to adapt to pretty powerful and expressive 6SN7s as CSP3 outputs. I was using Philco Globes having liked them best some years ago when I used them more regularly. Then I moved to other rectifiers.

Enjoying these 80s again, and having made a lot of changes to my amps, speakers, cables, etc over several years, stimulated by this thread, I decided to check some other 80s.

Just now I have in some Tungsol ST 80s, and their slightly tighter/cleaner sound compared to the Philco globes, it quite seductive. More extended on top while still being big sounding and atmospheric, they have an interesting complexity within their enticing smooth solidity. Beautifully transparent transition between notes and rich decays...they sound pretty real to me. 1st impressions are that they are more engaging to me than the Philco Globes with this particular tube set... really good sounding tubes. So now I may have to revisit my preference for globes. I can tell I will be playing with Type 80s for the next few days.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #131 - 01/17/21 at 00:35:39
 
Hello Will

The 80 globe was designed for 4uF input capacitors. When you use larger capacitors there is a high chance that the rectifier will burn. To use 47uF capacitors you would need to use a series resistor to limit the inrush current, or use the recommended capacitor value in the datasheet. Even the 5Y3 that are very modern use capacitors with a maximum of 10uF. Well, I am suggesting what is correct. Nothing prevents you from using large capacitors and taking the risk. As I build a lot of amplifiers for myself, I often use expensive  rectifiers and these sound divine .... but I take care of the valves, kkkk.

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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #132 - 01/17/21 at 01:27:43
 
Hello Aldovan,

I completely understand your thoughts.

But for me, as long as I am not in a hurry, I have found so many really good sounding rectifiers relatively inexpensively, I have not gone there with really costly ones. If I did, I would very likely also be more influenced by ratings, at least for those rectifiers.

None-the-less, I have been impressed with how tolerant many well made old rectifiers are with higher value filter caps than their ratings. Also, as far as I can recall, the only rectifiers that have failed here were properly specced for greater than 47 uF caps.

I have seen some of those type 80 and 5Y3 data sheets you mention, but also have run across a number of them like the following, giving a 32 uF cap rating:

Type 80:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_80.html
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0296.htm

And 5Y3:

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0014.htm
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5y3.html

So I definitely get your viewpoint, and have little doubt some tubes are more vulnerable to deviation from specs than others. But at the same time, especially with really well made tubes of old, designed and specced for intense use, I have found their ratings can at times be "stretched" a bit while still getting a decent lifespan from them....perhaps truncated in some cases, but decent. Like a lot in audio, just thinking specs are not always the totally "cut and dried" reality.

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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #133 - 01/17/21 at 06:43:06
 
Is the Type 80 Globe the same as a Type 80?  I use RCA Type 80s in my ZP3 and CSP3 without issue.  These aren't the "lightbulb" shaped tubes though.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #134 - 01/17/21 at 08:58:41
 
Yes, is the same tube, but the type 80 is more robust.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #135 - 01/17/21 at 16:46:28
 
Quote:
Posted by: will      Posted on: Today at 01:27:43

...None-the-less, I have been impressed with how tolerant many well made old rectifiers are with higher value filter caps than their ratings. Also, as far as I can recall, the only rectifiers that have failed here were properly specced for greater than 47 uF caps


My experience is similar to Will's. I think many (certainly many that still survive today) "golden age" tubes far exceed their data sheet specs. Certainly I've never had an old Type 80 fail catastrophically (or at all), but that has happen to me with higher spec'd current production tubes. Now it may very well be that using them e.g. in a Decware amp will shorten their lifespan, but so far that hasn't been an issue either. JMO/FWIW/YMMV of course.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #136 - 01/17/21 at 20:01:31
 
Reading about everyone's exploits of using this tube and that tube, it seems a bit off. Reason being is not everyone here is using the same speakers, pre amps, wires, etc. Of course all are using the Zen amp but it seems to me that just having different speakers is gonna change the sound quality for each listener, or did I miss something???
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #137 - 01/17/21 at 21:16:20
 
I think you are correct. Along with speakers, pre and wires, room, tube sets, cables, power, frontend, vibration mitigation....I get your thought.

But using Decware does narrow the field some, bringing about a certain level of musical transparency and neutrality as a baseline, and many of us support the Decware sound with decent front-ends, decent cables, decent power, decent speakers....also revealing....

But each tube does tend to characteristic sound qualities that influence the whole based on the tube's signature. So though their individual sound is a contribution that influences, and is influenced by a given system, the ways they adjust a system sound will have similar qualities and balances based on the tube signature.

If a lot of folks with nice systems like a given tube, that can be a good pointer that the tube works in ways that help many various systems, but even so, it is a bit of a crap shoot when tastes and system/room variations come into it.

This is one reason why I try to remember to describe what I hear rather than just saying "I like it," or "it is better." Still not totally predictable, but perhaps helpful for discerning if one might like what a tube type or individual tube within a type might tend to do.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #138 - 01/26/21 at 11:18:55
 
BTW if I choose to try an 80 tube where are you getting the adapter from?
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #139 - 01/26/21 at 12:04:54
 
I have bought mine from eBay.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #140 - 01/26/21 at 17:49:32
 
I got mine from ebay also. It is not real clear, but there seem to be a bunch once you find the right search. I have some that look like the following, and both seem good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-WE274A-5Z3-80-TO-WE274B-5U4G-GZ34-5AR4-Tube-co...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-Adapter-for-5Z3-5U4G-80-5Y3-tube-SUB-U52-274B-Cry...

If the tube is new to you, don't know if you have checked around, but the ST (coke bottle) shape is usually pretty inexpensive, and may be a good place to start. Then if you love it, the more costly globes can be really good sounding too.

As Lon said above, "the globe is generally a "bolder" more spacious sound, the straight shouldered a tighter, more focused, often warmer sound, and the ST is somewhere in between."

I might add that Type 80s, being more in the 5Y3 family, are generally a little less dense and powerful than 5U4G-ST types, yet still have a complex and solid, natural sound, and generally really nice spacial information. Personally I find 5Y3GTs are too flat dynamics-wise, but don't really feel the type 80s this way. They are not as fast as GZ32 or GZ34, but to me, though a little slow by comparison, they do not seem unduly slow or lacking in dynamics....more having a slightly relaxed, yet pretty lively and real feel to me. So I think type 80s generally give a little lower key and clear image into the music without notable downsides in terms of note body, dynamics and extension, while tending to give a pretty special tonal and spacial representation.

The  potential caveat - as discussed, there have been Decware folks who had them create a light show and fail. I have not had this happen having tried quite a number of different Type 80s, but apparently based on the actual tubes one gets, those of us who have had good luck, that luck may not always convey!
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #141 - 01/27/21 at 11:25:14
 
Ok guys thanks much appreciated...

Jay
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #142 - 03/13/21 at 12:10:54
 
Ok guys I got my adapter for the 80 rectifier tubes I tried the ST type first and wasn't really impressed, then I tried the globe type and OH what a difference!!! This tube has made this amp really come to life and sing, I am hearing things that I never heard before specially in the high end..
It has actually made this amp sound better than my 45 amp which I didn't think could happen!!! I am a really happy camper right now, thanks for all the advice....
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #143 - 03/13/21 at 12:53:40
 
Glad you are enjoying the globe type so much. I have been using them in my Taboo Mk IV and CSP2+ both with the Anniversary mods in my living room system and they are just perfect for the sources I use. I have used them in my main system as well, though at present I am using other rectifiers that work really well too (Sophia Electric Aqua in the monoblocks, RCA 5Z3 in the CSP3). It's always surprising how these amps with their sophisticated and uncomplicated circuitry and parts reveal the characteristic of each tube in their complements.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #144 - 03/13/21 at 18:20:10
 
I think I found more sonic variation in the STs than the globes. Though the globes definitely vary, make and vintage effecting sound, I wonder if the big/open globe sound isn't totally related to the big/open globe shape.

I haven't used either consistently for years, but testing them several weeks ago, I recalled that I had affection for the STs I have in certain tube sets, the specific tube combination making a lot of difference.

I am with Lon on the our amp circuits. It is cool how much they allow the tubes to create our sound.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #145 - 03/15/21 at 11:24:59
 
Well the ST type I tried was a Cunningham and the globe is a Natioal Union that is NOS...
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #146 - 03/15/21 at 12:09:46
 
One of my favorite Globes was an Arcturus but it met with a wife-related accident. Wink I have a pair of Cunninghams that are likely RCA, a pair of RCA and a Philco. Subtle differences between the pairs and the Philco; all sound great.

I have RCA and Philco labeled ST types. They are okay but don't have the large, open sound of the Globes in my systems.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #147 - 03/16/21 at 00:10:08
 
For me too the globe's open spaciousness is seductive. I have some Cunninghams and Philcos, both with etched bases. These Philco are more transparent and open, and the Cunninghams, a little darker and slightly more "liquid" and euphonic, but less fine detail in the balance, often a deal breaker for me.

Today, I did a minor test with the Cunningham Globes compared to Westinghouse STs. And with the tube set I have in now, Torii— Mullard CV4080 (=OC2), mid 40s Hytron OC3, Bugle Boy ECC189, Tubestore Preferred 6L6GC, and the type 80s. CSP3- Telefunken RGN1064, Raytheon tall bottle 6SN7 GTB with top D getter for output, and an RCA 6ES8/ECC189 input, seemingly American made.

Starting with the Cunninghams, these are the ones with the metal stub coming out the side of the base. Beautiful looking tubes. The sound was smooth, warm, notably spacious, but a little slow, especially low down, and tending some toward rigid in the mid and highs. I attribute the rigidity when it showed up as a balance issue. To me, not extreme, but the top is noticeably rolled off with these tubes, so less fine detail and space to feather rigidity. Either the slight rolloff, or the tube balancing my amp toward darker tone, I get more mid and bass emphasis, with somewhat less present fine detail, contributing to the low end being a little slow. I depend of fine detail and balanced speed throughout here, and this balance is a little uneven and feels a little veiled. The mids are very clear, but a little incomplete to me, listening carefully, lacking fine information.

The Westinghouse STs— In this tube set, by comparison they are still quite spacious, the signal a little more focussed (less obvious ambience) but still with good space and fine detail. Slightly warm, but close to neutral, with tight bass and more speed top to bottom, they are nicely textured and airy with a pretty nice dose of liquidity. They sound like music to me.

So in this current setup, this particular ST has less that sticks out to me, and does it all well, making it clear, balanced, and quite musical in a "live" sort of way. More extended on top, I don't notice roll-off with this tube. Whereas with the Cunningham globe, though nice, more balanced toward bass, the bottom is a little thick to me, and it leaves the top information less present. Reminds me that the very top roll off of the Globes was a big part of what got me looking further after my first affair with them.

My system has become notably more resolving, textured, spacious, and refined, making all tubes sound better. So I don't know how this plays out. But I recall in the past ending up with globes more, though it was the more open/revealing Philcos.

Anyway...what I heard in this little test in my current setup.
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #148 - 03/16/21 at 11:12:36
 
As I said before we all have a little different gear and speakers so everything is not apples to apples. My system is tri amped so my UFO is only powering the two mid drivers in my system, with that said I believe I get the best these tubes have to offer in that area...
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Re: Try a type 80 globe rectifier in your super zen
Reply #149 - 03/16/21 at 19:14:55
 
Hey jcmusic.

I see now that yours is a very specific use. And being a complex system, and this particular use, representing a limited part of the spectrum, I can imagine how it might make ultimate tube choices more challenging.

But like caps, unless we want to try them all, in seeking a given desire for improvement, the best path I know is to get comparatives from others that describe the tendencies of a tube or cap based on its sonic traits and tendencies. Then we can try to interpret if those sonic tendencies might apply to our specific needs.

I agree, variability in different system/rooms, and personal preferences, are givens, and they define what is ideal in a given setup. But also, we see threads of certain tube's character conveying broadly across many systems. In this case, a bunch of us agree that Type 80s are compelling tubes, indicating they can convey their special traits across many systems. So we try to describe what we are getting in our setups in hopes it might help others narrow down choices. But finally, as with reviewers, reviews are most successful for us if we take into account the personal preferences we have come to expect from the writer and how we interpret their system/room as compared to ours. Always a risk for the hard core tuners, but hopefully this process gets us closer to guessing how something might work in our system.

Variabilities in tubes, setup, and needs were part of the reason for my recent posts. All Type 80 STs are not alike. And all Globes are not alike. But being Type 80s, each of these subgroups carry similarities, while  each individual within each subgroup have their own sonic tendencies.

Leading to... For people with very specific needs, and resolving systems, refinement is trickier, with narrow choices, and trying one of a type and not totally loving it, does not necessarily rule out others of the same type. So clearly, a single Type 80 tube might or might not be the ultimate in a given setting, but this might not rule out Type 80s in general for that setting.

Some of us have tried STs and Globes, but few have heard the gamut. And with several different Globe and ST makes, and different vintages within each, we can expect notable sonic variations.... Whether Type 80 or ECC88/6922, or whatever tube.... When have you heard two ECC88s that sound exactly alike? Yet the type has expected traits that generally differentiate them from an ECC88/6DJ8, or ECC189.

So with two basic types of Type 80s, and a number of different makes and vintages of each.... in most cases each individual tube will exhibit variations on the type themes.  So I agree, even if we know we have liked the type, we really can't tell exactly how well another tube of the type will slot into our systems until we try it. But then, plug and play is often not an ideal answer or conclusive. Many of us have found that if the traits of the new tube are compelling in most ways, then fine tuning with other tubes to bring out the best of each in combination, can potentially make the new tube that was not ideal, beautiful.

If we are seriously into optimizing sound in fine tuned ways, this to me is a very good reason to work up to at least several of each basic tube type we use, tubes that sound varied, but that we really like, especially in the right company. Then the ability for mixing and matching can result in yet unknown beauty. Based on mixing the traits of different known tubes for the very particular blend and synergy, then 3 or 5 tube positions are what we are tuning into one sound. With skill, luck, and trial and error, the tube type's combined traits can potentially create great beauty. So if we are really particular, I find the time and energy to bring out a compelling rectifier can be well worth it...

Round about, this is part of what I thought I was pointing to with my last post. We all know we have different setups, and Lon and you, in your rooms and uses, prefer the Globes you have over the STs you have. And for a long time I preferred Globes overall, but have also enjoyed STs at times. And for me, my globe preference was one Globe type, earlier Philcos.

Then I did this test yesterday without adjusting anything, no tube changes other than changing the Torii rectifiers from my current favorite Telefunken RGN1064s, to only one Type 80 Globe, and only one ST type. And for this specific setup, plug and play, I prefer the Westinghouse STs I have over the Cunningham Globes I have. They both sounded really good, but for this tube set, with this limited test, and with very careful listening, I was actually surprised to like this ST quite a bit better than this globe.

Looking more specifically at tube variations within system variations, and the validity (or not) of the analysis of others as tools.... Being to my tastes, both my systems have similar traits, but are definitely different. And pre stages and amps each have different sonic qualities.... so different gear, power treatment, different tube combinations, different cables, different feet, etc, the combination creating the character of each system.

Yet I hear sonic fundamentals of any rectifier moving it from one amp to another, or one system to another. The same tube has the same sonic traits in all cases. Now depending on how the specific setup and room adjust those traits, defining what is "the best," is hard to say. But if I put in a Philco globe in any of them, I hear a Philco globe sound.

Obviously levels of listening discernment and communication efforts and skills also play into all the many wildcards inherent to how something sounds in a complex system... I personally have never gotten much from comments like "the best tube," or "the worst tube," without context. But also, "translation" of well perceived and written impressions most often requires interpretation as to how these impressions relate to our particular systems.

So I agree it all depends on a lot of things. But I have also noticed that tubes have traits that can convey pretty well, especially across Decware, all Decware voiced with Steve's preferred parts, and to his preferred sonic balance and "flavor."

My take anyway. Wink
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