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Get Better Sound (Read 2223 times)
Matchstikman
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Get Better Sound
02/08/17 at 01:48:37
 
Has anyone heard of this?
http://getbettersound.com/index.php

I've had it for some time and I feel that it has some very useful tips and tricks.  Funny thing is that some of the ideas go against many of the setups I've seen on this site.

I'm no audiophile. I'm just a guy that pretends to be one, but it has alot of info that I know I'll use some day when I'm able to use it.

Just my two cents.
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ProggRob
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #1 - 02/08/17 at 01:50:23
 
I have a copy and agree with your comments.  It's very useful for the endlessly busy and curious audiophile!
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #2 - 02/08/17 at 07:22:35
 

Quote:
I've had it for some time and I feel that it has some very useful tips and tricks.  Funny thing is that some of the ideas go against many of the setups I've seen on this site.


I'm curious - such as?
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Matchstikman
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #3 - 02/08/17 at 12:04:03
 
Okay.  Jim Smith strongly discourages amp racks to be in between loudspeakers.  I've seen many, many pics of people with their racks between loudspeakers.  He says a long run of lamp cord used when a rack is removed from between loudspeakers will result in better sound than using 8 foot prime cable which forces the rack between the loudspeakers.  He also says that multiple, unused loudspeakers in the listening room can cause adverse results.  He also has alot to say about room treatments and their overuse.  It is early morning so those are a few I can remember.

However, he does state that the most important part of any system is the room which is widely discussed on this forum.  

The book is a good resource.
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Tripwr1964
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #4 - 02/08/17 at 12:17:33
 
MS, that's funny cause i was just listening and thinking the other day about the large collection of gear between my speakers... can't be helping. and also the speakers all stacked up can't either.  i moved all my unused speakers away and found the imaging improved.  i run mg1.6's as my primary speakers, so it maybe more critical with planers...
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Matchstikman
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #5 - 02/08/17 at 13:38:51
 
Trip, I also own the DVDs which have further info on what the book discusses.  I think it is a very good resource.  Especially for someone non-technical like myself.
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Matchstikman
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #6 - 02/09/17 at 13:52:26
 
Ever since I started to read this book pics of setups have me wanting to change things around which is weird because I don't change my own things.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #7 - 02/10/17 at 17:28:10
 
Quote:
Okay.  Jim Smith strongly discourages amp racks to be in between loudspeakers.  I've seen many, many pics of people with their racks between loudspeakers.  He says a long run of lamp cord used when a rack is removed from between loudspeakers will result in better sound than using 8 foot prime cable which forces the rack between the loudspeakers.  He also says that multiple, unused loudspeakers in the listening room can cause adverse results.  He also has alot to say about room treatments and their overuse.  It is early morning so those are a few I can remember.


I would agree with all of that as well...which is also why I've been working towards an acoustically transparent screen and putting my gear rack off to the side.

As for room treatment - the problem isn't too much, but it's that people think room treatment is a magic bullet that will cure all their woes just by adding more and more and more. That's like taking random medicine when you're unsure of what your illness is.   The key really is *knowing* what your room issues are, then *treating* them accordingly.

Also, knowing what the room treatments actually *do* so they can be properly prescribed. I see too many people putting egg cartons on the wall, or random blocks of wood, or tiny little pillows in the corners then complaining that room treatment is snake oil.

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Matchstikman
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #8 - 02/10/17 at 17:39:52
 
Lonely, the book has a huge amount of info on better setup.  It is a good resource for cheap.  I mean, when compared to a typical upgrade of any kind.  It is quickly turning into my audio bible in some respects.
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Tony
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #9 - 08/23/22 at 17:28:35
 
This past weekend I met with a member of the SF Audiophile Association, who has been active in the field for many years.  Very educational meeting for me in general.  I wanted to recommend a book he lent me , Get Better Sound by Jim Smith.  Easy to read with over 200 tips to improve SQ for little money.

I searched for it on the Decware forum and found the last reference/post to it from back in 2017.  I thought it deserved a bump.

This book is excellent for anyone wanting a good introduction, with no BS to getting better sound!  Other books I have, like The Audio Expert by Ethan Winer, are excellent, I'm sure, but written for an audience above my current pay grade.  

Has anyone else read this book, and would you agree?

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Kamran
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #10 - 08/24/22 at 01:30:21
 
Very interesting.  I need to get this book.  The way I’ve set up my listening room (though inadvertently) is that all my gear is to the backside of the room, like 10 ft away from the loudspeakers. At the time, I was finishing my basement and my audio installer insisted not to pull all the wires in between the speakers and keep them tidy and separate in a rack with so much extra length that I can easily move my entire rack 5ft out and still have some room to spare.

His reasoning didn’t include any sonic benefits, but cited as a benchmark of how home theater installations are done.  Fast forward 2 years when music is my primary activity, I’ve been somewhat regretting that decision as it locks me in to using the wires he installed prior to the walls going up.  The benefit is an ultra clean look and no staggered components in the middle, but if I wanted to say…use Steve’s new speaker cables, I’would need to move all the equipment upfront (though not necessarily in the middle of the speakers) and have the speakers cables be exposed for all to see.  That said, it’s a good quality OFC cable and I haven’t experienced anything negative—in fact, with successive better gear and room treatments, the rig continues to sound sublimer (if that is a word).

Perhaps there is something to keeping the components separate and I need to stop overthinking it…
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spyder1
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #11 - 08/24/22 at 18:41:36
 
Jim Smith is not a "Stand Up Guy." He ran a Kickstarter Crowdfunding Campaign, for a book titled "Through the Sound Barrier." This was in 2013. There have been few project updates. I don't believe Jim Smith plans to complete the TTSB project campaign, or refund it's project backers! He pocketed the $92,852.00 for himself.
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Tony
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #12 - 08/24/22 at 18:56:12
 

Hey Spyder1,

Well, that's a surprise!  Could it be a different "Jim Smith?"

I'm still at the beginning of the book, and he goes out of his way to recommend common sense and low-cost options over higher ones.

Still, I asked if anyone was familiar with the book - and, in this case, the author.
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spyder1
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #13 - 08/24/22 at 19:41:36
 
Tony,

Check out, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ttsb/through-the-sound-barrier/posts. You will find the facts of the TTSB crowdfunding campaign.
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Doug
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #14 - 08/26/22 at 03:40:30
 
Just spent an hour reading a bunch of Jim Smith’s Quarter Notes articles and encountered a few common sense ideas that I never would have thought to do on my own—things that I’ve not heard of previously.  Example: placing a copper union/sleeve around the iec end of a component power cord and making sure the copper sleeve is in direct contact with the component chassis.  This insures that a shielded power cable remains shielded the length of the cable and not broken just before it enters the component.

I’ll probably buy the book; it’s available at Jim’s online store in soft cover or hardback. Thanks guys for the reference!
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Doug
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #15 - 09/11/22 at 03:28:19
 
Tip #145 But do you really want a dead quiet system?

I bought Jim Smith’s Get Better Sound book from his website a week ago and I’m reading it straight through from front to back, though at Jim’s recommendation tips 53-79 were read first.  These tips primarily deal with speaker placement, room treatment, and listening position.  I was somewhat surprised to learn that for small and medium sized rooms Jim recommends that the listening position be very close to the back wall, with the speakers pulled way out from the front wall.  I recall that Pierre Sprey also recommended this set-up.  In my own listening room which is a largish small room, or a smallish medium room, that measures 13’ by 18’, I like my speakers pulled out five feet from the front wall with the listening chair around five to six feet from the back wall.  I’ve never experimented with the slightly more extreme positions suggested by Jim and Pierre, but I intend to give it a shot in the coming days.

Back to Tip #145…….it is Jim’s life long experience that dead quiet stereo systems are the ones that are dull, lifeless, and the least interesting musically.  On the other hand, he finds stereo systems that are a bit noisy (hum) to be the ones that are livelier and far more involving.  

With certain volume settings on my preamp and integrated amp I can easily eliminate nearly all hum, but I have found in recent days that turning the volume control on the amp all the up, and allowing the WE300B tubes to do their thing, sound quality is significantly better than before, which I wouldn’t have thought possible.  The caveat is that humming is now obvious, even from the listening chair—but only when music is not playing.  At this point in time I consider the hum to be a good trade off for the improved musicality.  Come to think about it, my second favorite system of all time was also a hummer.  Jim very well may be onto something with Tip #145.
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Dr3wman
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #16 - 09/11/22 at 05:24:30
 
So many of these ideas are ones I’d love to implement, but my listening space is also a living room, and that means I’ll never be able to have the speakers much farther than 18-20 inches from the wall.

Given that, do you imagine his book is still a worthwhile investment?
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metropolis7
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #17 - 09/11/22 at 16:54:41
 

Interesting. I wonder if my room would be considering medium/small?
It's 12x35. Currently, my speakers are 6 feet from the front wall with my listening chair 13 feet from the *front* wall.
I wonder what Smith's advice would be for this situation?
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Geno
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #18 - 09/11/22 at 17:38:43
 
Doug,

Several years ago, I was using Mapleshades speaker cable (funky as it was) and I had a question about it. I called them, and left a message. That evening, they returned my call. Shortly into the conversation, I realized that this wasn’t just a rep, but Pierre himself.

The tone of the conversation was kind of funny. I was the pupil, and he was the stern teacher. He made several challenging statement/questions, and I just knew that if I listened, I could definitely learn something.

Three things that he insisted, were:

1) As you said, he said that bass performance is much better, with the listening position close to the back wall.

2) Not only the listening position be close to the back wall, but also that the setup should be along the long wall of the room, so that the listening distance is shorter.

3) That the listening seat is too high - he insisted that closer to the floor always sounds better.

The last one, I thought strange - sit on the floor??? Or almost on the floor. How do you do that?

Anyway, when I move into my new house next month, his first 2 points will be implemented, as well as Steve’s preference of speaker placement on each side of an opening into another room. And I am looking for a listening chair that sits a little lower than normal.

We will see what happens Wink

Best,

Geno
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #19 - 09/11/22 at 18:08:49
 

I got a new listening chair a few months back and raised the chair by 5 inches.  In one of my first rooms, some 30 years ago, I raised my listening chair by 12.75 inches.

I like stage depth. This is what chair height keys on for me. In a conventional chair, the floor reflection and in some cases more extended high frequency response from the speakers stack the layers like dominos.  I prefer the elevated perspective so I can see the dominos that are hiding behind other dominos.

Also at my height of 5'9" I usually get the best sound stage when standing.  This is largely true in every room over the past 30 years for me.  I suspect it may not work for taller people if the ceiling reflection comes into play.

The science of listening room set up always gets into where to place your listening chair relative to the walls and speakers but never relative to the ceiling and floor.  Not very good science.


Steve

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Steve Deckert
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #20 - 09/11/22 at 18:13:47
 
Quote:
With certain volume settings on my preamp and integrated amp I can easily eliminate nearly all hum, but I have found in recent days that turning the volume control on the amp all the up, and allowing the WE300B tubes to do their thing, sound quality is significantly better than before, which I wouldn’t have thought possible.  The caveat is that humming is now obvious, even from the listening chair—but only when music is not playing.  At this point in time I consider the hum to be a good trade off for the improved musicality.  Come to think about it, my second favorite system of all time was also a hummer.  Jim very well may be onto something with Tip #145.


You can think of background hum in an amplifier much the same as tape hiss on reel to reel tape. Until I can hear the background tape hiss, I know there is more to be heard that something has hidden.  Dolby for example.
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Earthbound
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #21 - 09/11/22 at 18:56:40
 
I use a moon pod, aka fancy bean bag, Geno. It’s actually quite supportive and I have the Ottoman as well. I prefer being lower to the ground. My head is just below the tweeter.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #22 - 09/11/22 at 22:08:30
 
The main reasons I started my last project, "Fat L" shaping my two 15" OB drivers and having one slam the floor were two fold.
I have wondered if the SOLID floor and odd angles would help to disperse some of the room modes and nodes to a point where they would become more manageable with fewer room adaptations and I was very pleasantly surprised at just how well that worked.
Added another amp, though! And I have not even tried to measure anything yet.

Second reason was to lower my full range driver a bit closer to my ear level at my comfy chair.

Already knowing that the plaster ceiling was an issue, yet to be addressed, I went to lower with my seated position as well.

Right or wrong, things changed so dramatically that I needed time to figure if all was good or not. I'm still using it the way I set it two months ago.
And lately, I have a pair of F15 Lii drivers sitting in boxes, never even plugged in yet except to check for continuity and proper directional cone movement.



I had begun lowering before this thread was started on my own instinct to help with directionality of the full range and spread out the room modes and nodes some.

The simple fact of firing my low frequency drivers almost 90 degrees apart made so much difference, I pulled down my corner traps and laid them across the floor behind my speakers and along my front wall floor.

Wow. What a difference! That bottom wall/floor corner was the most disruptive area detracting from clear propogation of LF energy in this tiny space.

Again, teeny tiny 12x14x8 with two window walls, tile on concrete floor, drywall one side and plaster ceiling.
I'm getting there!

It sounds pretty good right now and I have taken out a lot of the absorption I had laid in at first.
Still goofing with all of it.

Lowering my speakers the way I did was a good call in my room, I think.

Lots more sanding and such before I can mount the Lii F15 drivers for a first go here.

BTW, mine do not look like Geno's picture from the rear. Mine are more rounded about the magnet structure. Does this mean I have the "upgraded" drivers?

I have no clue about that.

No more sanding today, though. I'm going in to watch some football and probably fall asleep.
Grin
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Geno
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #23 - 09/11/22 at 22:41:53
 
DD,

My 15” drivers are W-15 bass drivers.

Best,

Geno
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Kamran
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #24 - 09/11/22 at 23:07:44
 
Thanks for sharing these tips Doug and Geno!

Coincidentally, I’m in a small room and my listening position is at the back wall, with a low height couch.  While (currently) the speakers are barely a feet away from the font wall, I do have very thick (6 inch) diffusor panels on each side, mounted directly behind them.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #25 - 09/11/22 at 23:27:41
 
Geno wrote on 09/11/22 at 22:41:53:
DD,
My 15” drivers are W-15 bass drivers.
Best,
Geno



Thanks, Geno.
That's a detail I forgot about while questioning things.
I'm still questioning everything I think I like.
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Doug
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #26 - 09/19/22 at 02:35:22
 
Is the hard bound version of Get Better Sound worth anywhere near $52?  Here’s my take on it.  

If you have been seriously pursuing this hobby for many years, maybe not.  Most of the book’s two hundred plus tips simply reinforced and confirmed knowledge that I have acquired across the past five decades.  For example, tips 136 and 137 became obvious to me some 30 years ago or so.  Here they are.

Tip 136:  Specs are almost meaningless when evaluating loudspeakers.

Tip 137:  Specs are almost meaningless when evaluating electronic components.

If, however, you are relatively new to the serious pursuit of great sound, you very well might find the book to be an invaluable resource.  And, of course, each tip is followed by a paragraph, or many paragraphs, explaining the tip in detail.

The nearly 300 pages of Get Better Sound also include Jim’s personal reference CD list of 180 discs, a glossary of audiophile terms, and a worthless, short sighted list of audio equipment manufacturers.  
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johnnycopy
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #27 - 09/19/22 at 05:27:46
 
Interesting story.

While travelling to Atlanta for work conference, I took the time to rent a car and visit Jim Smiths home where I auditioned avantgarde duo’s with his superb front end and amplification.

We listened in a room up on the second floor. Filled with albums and cd’s

He was a great host, and my hours listening were magnificent.

The duos were superb with the tweeter horns and midrange horns and powered conventional subs.

I remember him talking about the difficulty most people had in setting them up properly. He sent me an email with a list of setup topics which I have long ago lost.
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Re: Get Better Sound
Reply #28 - 09/19/22 at 12:29:35
 
If he is still offering the DVD to go along with the book it's worth the watch.

It can be a real time saver getting speaker and listening position dialed in.

Reading through will give you many days of tweaking to try.

Doug, I'm with you. A lot of it seems very obvious. When I was first starting down this road it wouldn't have been obvious at all.
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