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Vibrapods? (Read 9552 times)
Matchstikman
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Vibrapods?
06/30/16 at 21:16:34
 
Anyone use them?
Yesterday I was looking through my boxes of old audio stuff and I found 1 Vibrapod and a bunch of Gutwire Notepads that had dried up.  I don't think I'll use the Notepads again but I might use Vibrapods on a few things.

What say you?
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Lon
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #1 - 06/30/16 at 21:39:24
 
I used them YEARS ago. I tried them again recently and in my system under my amp and DAC they made things sound like "Mrs. Butterworth"--thick and rich, slow. That may be just right for some systems.
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Matchstikman
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #2 - 06/30/16 at 22:23:29
 
Mrs. Butterworth?  From what I read it shouldn't sound that way.  Wow.
I think I'll get a set and just see what they do.
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maddog07
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #3 - 06/30/16 at 23:04:21
 
the original Vibrapods and the bases of the cone vibrapods are made out of sorbothane I believe, because they will "stain" surfaces... anything I've ever used made out of sorbothane is definitely excellent at "dampening" resonances and stopping vibration... like stopping skipping of CD's and records from footsteps - works like magic.  

Like two decades ago, I did some real research into "resonance control" and found that sorbothane is manufactured in different densities - measured in durometers on the Shore 00 scale.  Around that time I came across a place where I could buy 12" square, 1/4" think sorbothane tiles of 40 durometer.  I bought a whole box.  The stuff is pretty sticky by itself but can even be glued also - if you have anything that rings or vibrates when you tap it - a small sorbothane sheet stuck to it will stop it cold from vibrating/ringing.

It has been debated to death about whether it is best to stop vibration (mechanical & acoustical induced) from reaching your components or how to deal with it after the vibration/resonance has made its way into your components.  Some parts in your components, like transformers, create their own mechanical vibration/resonance.
From a theoretical standpoint in would seem that keeping resonance/vibration from getting into your components in the first place would be desirable to getting rid of it, or dampening it after it gets there.  However.... it is not practical or feasible to believe you can keep all vibration/resonance from getting into a component.

I think there are even more vibration control, vibration isolation, etc. type products than there are speaker cable and interconnect manufacturers.  There is also no end to the debate about whether they work at all, how they work, how well they work and in what places they work best.  I would just recommend you "try them and see" for yourself.

Over the years I've amassed various sorbothane type products, a box full of the old Sims Navcom pucks(which will also stain surfaces eventually, but not as fast as Sorbothane), brass and aluminum cones, weights, points and various size radiused spheres, etc. etc.  Most of the "squishy" type products effects could be readily and easily ascertained. Some of the others - not so easy to determine if they had an effect or not, and what it was.

One of the greatest vibration control discoveries I ever made was made when visiting the lab of one of the most highly regarded and well known electronics engineer/designers in all of high-end audio.  And there I observed that this guys components were all sitting on sheets of "foam"... yes "foam".  You can get the stuff open-cell, closed-cell, different thicknesses, different densities, different shapes - the options are nearly endless.  I have experimented with various foam sheets for a long time and found it to be very effective and it's cheap!
 
Now there is a new type of foam, that is even better!  Most people know of it as "memory foam" and many folks sleep on it.  But did you know that you can also buy this product in different densities and thicknesses?  It was invented in a NASA lab for the purposes of protecting humans and increasing survivability by absorbing energy during a crash.  The stuff is also incredibly effective at isolating and absorbing vibration/resonance in our audio components........
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Matchstikman
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #4 - 06/30/16 at 23:21:48
 
Foam you say?
Well, I've got a bag full of foam from things I've purchased in the event that if I have to pack anything I might use it.
I guess I have a use for it.
I'm going to try it this weekend.

And as for staining, I don't think I'm into any product that stains.  Wow.
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Lon
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #5 - 07/01/16 at 00:07:27
 
Vibrapods are NOT made out of sorbothane.

From the website:

VIBRAPOD ISOLATORS are made of vinyl and may blemish the surfaces they touch. To insure the safety of these surfaces use PLAYING CARDS, BAR COASTERS, OR FELT between the sur- face and each VIBRAPOD ISOLATOR.


http://www.vibrapod.com/PDF/manual.pdf
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Lon
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Posts: 23310
Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #6 - 07/01/16 at 00:24:32
 
Matchstikman wrote on 06/30/16 at 22:23:29:
Mrs. Butterworth?  From what I read it shouldn't sound that way.  Wow.
I think I'll get a set and just see what they do.

Well, in comparison to what I have been using in the last few years (Two generations of VooDoo Cable "IsoPods," Herbie's Audio Iso-Cups and Ingress Audio Rollerblocks, Aurios) the Vibrapods are slow sounding. Seem to smear transients and give a thicker sound. With a bright and really detailed system this may be a nice combination. . . doesn't work with mine as well as the other footers. (Though expensive, the latest VooDoo Cable IsoPods are what really work for my system in its present incarnation.)
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Matchstikman
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #7 - 07/01/16 at 15:59:17
 
After doing some research online I think I am going to try the Herbie footers.
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will
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #8 - 07/01/16 at 17:15:59
 
Matchstik,

My only experience with sorbothane was some bright star isonodes under my Torii MKIII, and I found them pretty bad....sluggish, dark, thick...not well balanced in terms of resolving vibration issues across frequencies. They were kind of thick, heavy, and mushy like they felt, made of soft sorbathane. That is my recollection anyway.

From that experience, I just blew off sorbathane. But then some pretty impressive sounding vibration rigs use it, like the psaudio's powerbase platforms Lon uses. They use it in specific densities with specific supporting design and materials to get the equation they thought most effective.

I found maddog's reference to different densities of sorbothane interesting in this context.

If you search this forum using herbie's without case sensitivity, and "all posts" or "year," you will get loads of comments, and also various threads discussing vibration control generally... And not just about Herbie's things, herbie's stuff used as references when talking about other options as well. May be worth some perusal.

Personally, I have never liked tenderfeet under components, finding isocups faster and more neutral. Also, a cool thing about isocups is that you can change the balls, different materials adjusting the sound.
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Matchstikman
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #9 - 07/01/16 at 17:54:03
 
I see how isolation under a loudspeaker or a CDP can help with sound.  There are moving parts that can affect the sound and reducing the vibration should improve the mechanics of that component.  However, I don't understand how reducing vibration can make things sound dark and thick and mushy unless the actual recording was dark, thick and mushy.  How does that happen?
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Archie
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #10 - 07/01/16 at 18:36:28
 
My personal theory is that what is being used for isolation is less than perfect and the sound effects are a result of the vibrations that get through and their interaction with the components.  Why results vary according to equipment and taste is because we are really "tuning" for a sound we like.  Perfect isolation may not even be desirable.

One of Steve's older papers suggests that a phono cart can put back into the music some of the messiness that makes it sound real that digital takes out.  (Or something to this affect, if memory serves me.)  We may not like perfect isolation if we acheive it or the various effects of partial isolation.  Nevertheless, isolation makes sense since music is vibration and so is noise.
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will
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Re: Vibrapods?
Reply #11 - 07/01/16 at 22:29:48
 
I am speaking in serious listening mode, but for the level of sound I am after, I can't get there without discerning how different things effect each other, and the overall sound. Within that, it is likely that what sounds subtle to one may sound more obvious to another, especially when different systems and rooms have such variation in how revealing they are. So it is all a little relative, but I hear different vibration reduction devices enough that some I don't like at all, and of those I do like, for refining component sound, it can really matter which one is under what component. Also, at times, how many, and where they are placed matters in meaningful ways for the best overall sound.

I can only guess as to exactly why, but as I recall, those isonodes under the Torii effected all recordings with a slowish and darkish quality. I think it was in certain frequency areas more than others, but enough so to cause dark/slow to be an overall feeling. They also resolved some areas better than others, but the uneven character of how they worked effected the whole of the presentation, imparting their peculiar signature across recordings.

I think Archie makes good points. I don't think I have tried a foot that sounded the same as another. Presumably the sound depends literally on how the feet themselves interact with the amp in combination with the environment of vibrations....room waves, floor/rack/shelve waves, transformers, tubes, wires, etc. And since the materials used and the design of the footer determine how it mitigates vibrations....and since each maker has particular tastes, theory and cost constraints, variations of sound from different feet are not surprising. It seems all the good feet are tuned to sound by someone. And gear for testing, room, levels of vibration and specific vibrations, etc, along with the personal preferences of the designer... all of this will effect the general sound character from the foot in relationship with a component.

Resonant vibrations apparently effect how the parts of a component cause the passing signal to sound. And likely certain vibration frequencies effect some parts more than others, while some parts are more natively vulnerable to vibration than others. Then, how the individual parts interact with the rest must matter, the signal being messed up earlier in the chain effecting the remainder of the signal and parts that follow.

Like Archie suggests, it sounds to me like different platforms/feet themselves are better or worse at the footer objectives of isolating, damping, and draining vibrations across the spectrum. If a footer can stop most vibrations, and not ones that are particularly offensive within a given component, this could throw off the whole signal balance in notable ways. Alternately, if certain vibrations are allowed through just a little, with marginal effect for a given component, the resulting subtle area of distortion may actually make the whole seem better. Or biased to be a little more revealing...or perhaps a bit smoother and more warm....on and on, variations in how good vibration reduction effects component sound can be useful as a tuning tool.

I suspect the speed at which various vibrations that are not fully mitigated pass through the foot has an effect also, and this would be influenced by materials and design as well.

Listening to the sound most vibration devices impart, oddly, the sound often makes sense to me based on the materials used...hard materials sounding tighter/faster, and softer sounding softer/slower. And combinations often seem the most successful. It appears that careful combinations of harder and softer, in concert with the just-right shape/design, can allow a higher level of increased resolution from a component across the spectrum, presumably removing the most vibration seamlessly and without signature.

Just brainstorming, but these things occur to me.
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