New owner of a Torii Mk IV.  I'm considering pairing the amp with the CSP3?  It sounds really great as is.  Like I've read, if the recording is of poor quality, it comes through; and sometimes in a painful way.  If it's a good to great recording, it's amazing.   So, will the CSP3 really improve the overall quality of what I'm hearing on the Torii Mk IV?  Any input appreciated.

I hesitated to respond immediately as I was basically going to say the same thing as DBC. I have a CSP2+ in my system because I use three sources (my DirectStream, my ZP3 and my Denon universal player for SACD, DVD-A and video discs) and the Torii Mk III only has two inputs. To be honest I find that with these top quality sources I have, directly into the Torii makes the clearest, most dynamic and "accurate" sound. As I use the DirectStream more than the ZP3 (I run my DVR into the DirectStream as well as my Redbook transport and the digital out from my Denon). The CSP2+ did help the sound of the lesser quality sources I used in the past after a lot of work getting the right tube complement and cabling. The naturally "compression" you can get from ramping up the voltage output from the CSP can really make a difference. But it seems to take away from the sound of the sources I use now, just a bit, but although I try to live with it I prefer "straight in" to the Torii.

I do really enjoy the CSP2+ that I have as a headphone amp, and in my new domestic situation I am using headphones again and I'm very happy with the sound from this preamp.

If you don't need an additional source into your amp, or if you don't need a headphone amp, and you have top-notch source components and are as happy with the sound as you say you are. . . I'd stand pat for now.

Thanks for the info. I'm familiar with that cd player, a friend of mine has one. I do think that a CSP3 may help you with those less than ideal recordings. It can add a bit of body to those thinner sounding ones and with the "compression" you can achieve a bit of a taming of the shrillest parts of the high end.

It's nice that you listen to all sorts of music. But it does make a bit of a difficulty in the system. I find that the preamp can really help the sonics of rock and blues and music with electric instruments. But with much of jazz and classical and music with acoustic instruments I find what it adds is not what I prefer. But if you have the preamp you can use it . . . or not.

Good news that things sound so good as is. I too listen all over the map though mainly to jazz. I think that with break in and some tube rolling you'll be in bliss in a month or so. And then can decide on a CSP3. . . .I found two things really set my Torii on the right path: KT66 output tubes and 7308 input tubes (the 6N23 are good but just have a sort of upper midrange something that doesn't work for me on piano and strings.)

Blueone302,

I used the original Klipsch RF-7's for over 10 years with my Zen, so I know the Klipsch sound pretty well. These as well as your Cornwalls are fine speakers but like everything audio do have their limitations.

Like you, for many years I assumed about 20% of my 1,500 + CD collection were simply less than stellar recordings. A lot of the old Classic Rock recordings just lacked body (sounded thin). I added a Decware Preamp with only incremental improvement. It helped some with the thin material but rolled off other material which did not need it. Eventually I added twin HSU Mid Bass Modules to reinforce the Mid Bass which helped things a bunch.

A couple years ago I purchased a pair of Omega Super Alnico Monitors  (single driver no crossover) out of curiosity and this was a real turning point in my thinking. The Omega's are far more capable of conveying the recording space and musical emotion (there is a much greater sense the performance is actually taking place in your room). I can actually say there isn't a CD in my collection that is un-listenable with these speakers. I'm actually listening to music I never liked in the past.

With my Klipsch I found I had to turn them up to sound their best. The Omega's on the other hand sound great at any volume. The much smaller Omega's out perform the Klipsch RF-7's in all areas. I think part of the difference is cabinet resonance. It's tough to control cabinet resonance (noise) on the large Klipsch cabinets (lower cabinet noise = lower noise floor = greater dynamics). The smaller Omega cabinets do not vibrate and with no crossover the music simply flows with dynamics.

The Omegas's have great Bass Quality but do lack in Bass Quantity for my taste in my large room. So I do run them with a pair of 15" LoFOB's (Low Frequency Open Baffle) units that I built to reinforce the lower mid-bass.

So in the end I'm not sure there is a perfect solution to your original question regarding the Cornwalls. I had the same issue with my RF-7's.

The bass IS the last thing that comes out from the amps and new tubes imo. So keep playing and if your experience mirrors mine one day there will suddenly be this excellent balance top to bottom of the frequencies, and you're deep into listening.

Interesting tidbit. (To me at least.)  In an effort to keep the room where my system is located "aesthetically" pleasing to certain members of the household, I had the Cornwalls in front of a large bay window which resulted in a triangle shaped cavity behind each that started out at about 16 inches to where the inside corner touched the wall below each window.  So, since I know the Klipsch rule for the Cornwalls is against the wall, I came home an hour early yesterday and a friend and I moved some furniture around and the speakers out toward the end walls approximately three and one-half feet each.... and guess what I found?  The missing low end and depth that I was whining about. Drums are more pronounced and rim shots seem more accurate. Plus, the bass switch on the MK IV had no significant effect before.  But now, you can tell it tightens up the bass. Now I understand where this can be handy on various music and recordings.  I also had read an article on stranded wire, that the larger the wire gauge, the potential to actually lose some of the nuances of the recordings.  Supposedly the signal/charge travels the outside of the wire regardless of the size.  (Not sure if I'm buying.)  But, I did read it.  So, at my friends suggestion, we tried some 20gauge solid speaker wire.  (I was using 14 gauge monster wire before.) And again, there were subtle yet noticeable differences with no audible loss of anything sonically.  In fact, some of the high treble or high end vocals that could be strident at high volume smoothed out.  Cymbals sound better too.  And, some of the older 70's classic rock where the voices kind of ran together seem more distinctive.  I tend to be a skeptic on many things.  And these small tweaks seemed too simple to make any significant change.  Yes, some of the older stuff is still thinner than the new.  But, I'm chalking that up to the compression done on many of the early cd's.  And so, with the exception of the following caveat, the tweaks seem to be a great bonus.  About the caveat.  My wife comes home and asks why I moved her stuff around, why there's wire everywhere, why said wire is elevated on tacky chop stick platforms....  She wasn't happy.  But, once I clean it up and hide the wires, she will come around.  It may not look as good at the moment, but it sounds much better.   Now, out of curiosity, I do plan on trying some 14 gauge solid wire just to see if that makes a difference.  In the meantime, I better get back to work.

DBC,

  They are sitting on hardwood floors.  The speakers are the 3rd iteration of the Cornwalls and have the built in risers.  I've read and talked to folks who own them.  Some recommended I take them off and couple them to the floor.  Others suggest that I should leave them on and put some maple blocks under each corner. I did try some small plugs under each corner.  No discernible difference that I could tell. But, this was only raising them 1/2 inch. I haven't been able to find the engineer's thinking; but I assumed these built in risers were to get them off the floor and that should be sufficient.  Thoughts?