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Volume Control Transparency (Read 6968 times)
Dave1210
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Posts: 959
Volume Control Transparency
01/14/16 at 11:48:44
 
The volume control on my ZMA is significantly better than the volume control on the DirectStream DAC.  Decreasing volume on the ZMA preserves transparency, while the DAC adds multiple veils over the music.  I suppose I was slightly surprised by this but maybe I shouldn’t be.  

For reference, I typically leave the DAC at 100% volume and control volume on the amp.  But with TIDAL sounding excellent through my system and all that music/control in the palm of my hand (see post on Bridge II), I figured I would try the lazy approach.

Most don’t have the benefit of volume control on the amp, like we Decware folks do, and I doubt most can run the DAC at 100% volume into their amps directly (unless they don’t care about their hearing).  This may be part of the reason the PS Audio folks like the DS better with a pre-amp.  I think they are still using the Aesthetic Calypso until the BHK pre-amp is ready.  

Anyway.  I’ll still be getting a little exercise until I can get my hands on Steve’s new pre-amp ; )
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maddog07
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Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #1 - 01/14/16 at 21:51:46
 
I have an Aesthetix Calypso - it's the best sounding preamp overall, that I've ever heard or owned in over 30 years...and I acquired it after talking to Paul McGowan about his.  Like most things "tubular", you can roll a few tubes and tailor its sound to be darned near anything you desire, or need it to be, to meet your systems needs, room acoustics, etc.  It's flexibility and features leave almost nothing to want for.

But......  ;)

I started the new Decware preamp thread, and have exchanged an email or two early on w/Steve about its development and talked to him about it at Zen.  It has some very unique aspects to its design, that I suspect could potentially make it a giant killer - sonically speaking.   I have extraordinarily high hopes for its sonic performance.  But will the new ZPRE's sonics overcome the functionality and flexibility of the Calypso - hopefully time will "soon" tell....  :)
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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stone_of_tone
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 3217
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #2 - 01/15/16 at 14:25:18
 
Preamp is most essential.

Decreasing volume on the ZMA preserves transparency = correct.

I am so tapped in to the gain structures of my CSP3 with ZMA...I'm set.
However, I never say never, ....might send my ZMA to Decware, for XLR inputs and get the ZTPRE.






Listening Room:

Oppo PM-1 (32 ohm)   &   Sennheiser HD 600 (300 ohm)

Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
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Posts: 23310
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #3 - 01/15/16 at 14:31:52
 
Wonder if there is a variance in the DS as I use my DS directly into my Torii and usually leave the Torii stepped attenuator completely full up. I run the DS between 70 and 100 for my three sources and don't hear any "veils" in between these settings, and I hear more transparency as I have climbed the VooDoo Cable interconnect ladder. I get more transparency and dynamic contrast than when I run the DS into the CSP2+ and then into the Torii. The CSP2+ adds a tiny bit of natural compression that seems to attenuate transparency and dynamics, at least with the tube sets I've been using (currently have 7308s in all three positions and use 5Y3GT).

It may also be because the ZMA needs much more input voltage than the Torii. Seems a design feature of the ZMA (and I'm glad I don't need to pump higher voltage in via balanced or CSP).
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Dave1210
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Posts: 959
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #4 - 01/15/16 at 22:39:27
 
Maddog...thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Aesthetix Calypso and starting the new Decware preamp thread.  I have always run my DAC direct and would like to hear what a great preamp sounds like in my system.  I have only heard Aesthetix gear at shows, so I don’t really have a good point of reference.  I am looking forward to hearing the ZPRE and your thoughts on SQ comparison vs. the Calypso.  

Lon..I made the volume observation while using the Bridge II the other day.  The system sounded flat/lifeless and I realized the volume had been turned down on the DAC.  Back up to 100% on the DAC, then down on the amp and it’s crystal clear.  I’m not sure if this is something directly related to the Bridge input.  I don’t remember this with the PWT, but I typically don’t adjust volume on the DAC.  It usually stays at 100% and I control via the ZMA.  I will check on a few more things and report back.

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Lon
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worthless!"
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Posts: 23310
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #5 - 01/15/16 at 23:04:45
 
Dave1210 wrote on 01/15/16 at 22:39:27:
Lon..I made the volume observation while using the Bridge II the other day.  The system sounded flat/lifeless and I realized the volume had been turned down on the DAC.  Back up to 100% on the DAC, then down on the amp and it’s crystal clear.  I’m not sure if this is something directly related to the Bridge input.  I don’t remember this with the PWT, but I typically don’t adjust volume on the DAC.  It usually stays at 100% and I control via the ZMA.  I will check on a few more things and report back.


Looking at this more closely this is also likely influenced by an aspect of "riding the gain." with "more" of the preamp of the DS into the amp at a lower volume, this is sort of "naturally compressing" the DS signal and making it appear fuller, thicker, perhaps more lively. . . . This is precisely what I personally don't prefer and what sounds less natural and accurate to me with the DS on Redbook.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 3217
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #6 - 01/15/16 at 23:31:55
 
Dump the PS Audio stuff while you can maybe get 25 cents on the dollar for it.....over the next few months. Keep the Powerplant if you got one.

Shocked
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #7 - 01/16/16 at 00:13:16
 
Sorry, but I'm not taking your advice. I really enjoy my PS Audio gear. Don't want for anything digital. Enjoy your own stuff and have a nice holiday weekend.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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lLance
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Posts: 164
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #8 - 01/16/16 at 03:53:03
 
+1  I'm keeping my PS Audio gear. I have bought and sold a lot of gear over the years but my DS DAC and my ZMA are keepers for life.
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ZMA, ZTpre, VPI Scout 1.1 & Soundsmith Zepher Cart, Janszen zA2.1 Speakers, PS Audio DSD, Berkeley Audio Alpha USB, PS Audio P10, Win 8 & J River app, Morrow Cables Triode Wire Labs #7 & Lessloss PC, voodoo AES
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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 3217
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #9 - 01/16/16 at 05:30:30
 
Just kidding. Yes, enjoy the holiday weekend.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 3217
Re: Volume Control Transparency
Reply #10 - 01/16/16 at 05:54:38
 
Their are 11 of them for sale on AudiogoN.

One for $3200 with Yale and another sealed in box for $3499. They need to get down to $1800. .....then worth having maybe in a 2nd System....and a whirl again at my main Rig.... .
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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