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Donnie

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New project
12/05/15 at 15:56:15

I had a few weeks of vacation pop up over the end of the year and decided to do something constructive. So I've just put in a order to Madisound for a Fostex based horn speaker kit.
It uses an Fostex fe126en driver in some sort of back loaded horn.
I'll be doing some gluin' and screwin' to get it together. Then I'll get to my favorite part of sanding. It is so strange how I love sanding, kinda Zen to me. The finish will be an oil and wax, just because I've never done one.
Does anyone have any hints or hot ridding ideas that I can apply to this project? I'm open to any ideas, as crazy as than can be. Paint the inside blue because it sounds better? Hell I'll give it a shot! The more out there the better.

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Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: New project Reply #1 - 12/05/15 at 20:32:42 Donnie, I hope you post some pictures of your project. I don't have any hot ridding ideas ;) but as for the finish, I love wax over an oil stain. I don't use a top coat over an oil (such as linseed or tung) but I sometimes mix some polyurethane with the oil to give a tougher finish.
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Lin Ex Member	Re: New project Reply #2 - 12/06/15 at 03:35:43 No crazy ideas, but the amount of damping material is very important.
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Palomino Seasoned Member Posts: 2474	Re: New project Reply #3 - 12/06/15 at 12:40:47 I am thinking of doing a speaker project myself. Yes, please post pictures. I take it that you will be shooting for something with a slightly better finish than you garage 945s?
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Donnie Seasoned Member Why does it hurt when I pee? Posts: 2196	Re: New project Reply #4 - 12/06/15 at 14:14:51 Palo, I'm shooting for a much better finish than my garage speakers. The garage speakers look like they were drug behind a truck, but they sure do sound good. Lin, I've been doing some reading on the damping material. I'm also looking at maybe modifying the drivers a bit.
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Donnie

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Re: New project
Reply #5 - 12/09/15 at 01:12:53

Several boxes arrived today stuffed full of what I hope will become a pair of functioning speakers.
I've started the process by wiring the drivers up to my garage amp and powering them up to start the break in of 200 hours.
The plan now is to sand everything and then dry fit it together.
My question now is if it would be wise to go ahead and start my finish work on the panels before assembly or waiting until everything is together?

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Palomino

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Re: New project
Reply #6 - 12/09/15 at 15:55:12

I've done it both ways.

Finishing before, you can get better, smoother finish and it goes faster because you can easily do multiple panels at once. I always apply masking tape to any area that will eventually join together to keep any finishing off those areas so the wood glue will have a solid bond.

You would still need to put a final coat to close up any small cracks between joins. Downside is you'll need to be very careful in your joins not to mess up the finish.

Finishing after, it goes slower because you can only work on a couple panels at a time.

If I had the time, I'd finish after, taking my time to get the best finish on each panel..

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Archie

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Re: New project
Reply #7 - 12/09/15 at 16:16:47

My general rule is to always finish last since making good joints more than often requires "working the joint" which disturbs the finish and can make it hard or impossible to get an even final finish. Sand and pre-finish the relatively inaccessible areas only. I've rarely met a painter who doesn't want to pre-finish trim since it makes their job easier but I rarely let them based on the final results (and my convenience). Also, the stain and finish works into any tight cracks/gaps and fills slightly making a cleaner looking job. Just keep the glue off the bare wood or scrape/sand it completely after letting it dry -- never wipe wet glue. (Learned in the School of Hard Knocks. Wink

)

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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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Donnie

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Why does it hurt
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Posts: 2196

Re: New project
Reply #8 - 12/10/15 at 00:09:20

I bought supplies today. Sanding stuff and some Danish oil.
I applied some of the oil on a scrap piece of plywood that I had, It's not looking too bad.
The current plan is to oil and wax the sides and back, then shellac the front and the top for an two tone effect. I still haven't decided if I'm going to finish first or not. The two tone plan might make me finish it first though.
The drivers have around 24 hours on them now. I really can't tell any difference in the sound yet, but they are running in free air right now, absolutely no bass.
So onward with my sanding and fitting.

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Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: New project Reply #9 - 12/10/15 at 00:42:46 Donnie, Are you using real shellac or are you just showing your age?
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Donnie Seasoned Member Why does it hurt when I pee? Posts: 2196	Re: New project Reply #10 - 12/10/15 at 00:56:38 Archie, Nothing but real bug excrement for me. I love the look of 20 layers of Amber shellac buffed out. And I'm not that old! I'm somewhere between experienced and " Holy shit how did I get this old"!
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Archie

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Posts: 2731

Re: New project
Reply #11 - 12/10/15 at 16:25:19

That's very cool! I'm old enough to remember my dad using shellac on his projects. I've never done more with it than fix the finish on old furniture with denatured alcohol. There are two ways of fixing damaged old shellac finish with alcohol. The first is to rub the alcohol on the finish and the second is to put alcohol in your body until you don't care that the finish is damaged.

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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.

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Donnie

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Why does it hurt
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Posts: 2196

Re: New project
Reply #12 - 12/19/15 at 16:22:21

Just a quick update on my speaker project.
I have everything but one side glued on each one. Today I'm doing detail work inside of the cabinets. Siliconing joints, wiring, stuff like that.
At the same time I'm putting danish oil on everything and letting it soak into the wood. The finish is a real dark walnut, I'm not too sure that I like it. The plan now is to put shellac over the top of everything inside and out.
It will probably be put completely together either Monday or Tuesday.
I sure hope that they sound OK. I test fitted one up last weekend and put power to it. It sounded shrill, but there was no stuffing inside and things weren't buttoned up real tight.
I need to get some photos posted.

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Donnie

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Why does it hurt
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Posts: 2196

Re: New project
Reply #13 - 12/26/15 at 02:45:27

Ok, I now have the speakers glued together.
The heavy lifting of the finishing will begin later this weekend. I have 4 coats of Danish oil over pretty much everything now except the front baffle. The front baffle is painted red, covered with clear, sanded flat and waxed. Kind of a different look.
So next I'm going to sand everything flat and wax it. Lots and lots more sanding.
I've also stuck the drivers in and powered them up, they have an surprising amount of bass for little 4" drivers. Right now they are running off of my Wadia amp and sound a little on the bright side.
They sound much better running off of my Torii, much fuller, not as bright.
Strange, single driver speakers sounding better with a tube amp, who would have thought that?
Some more break in time is still needed, the drivers have less than 75 hours on them, time is on my side.
I'm not going to put any speaker manufacturers out of business. I'm thinking I have close to 50 hours in these right now, With several days to go still. At least it has kept me off of the street for the last few weeks.
I need to get my shit together and share some pictures.

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Donnie

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Why does it hurt
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Re: New project
Reply #14 - 12/27/15 at 00:24:45

Photos:

What's in the box.

Bottom before oil, top after oil.

Boxes and sides.

Oiled box.

Gluing up. Also playing them while drying, I was getting impatient.

Beside my MG944, my work isn't even in the same hemisphere of Bob's.

Next to my right 944. I still have a lot of finish work to do. The red sucks right now, I need to clean up the interiors and a bunch more work on the outside. Sand flat, polish and wax.

One last view. There is still a lot of things to do to them. I still have another week of vacation to go, so hopefully enough time to get them done.
The best thing is how good they sound and they keep getting better sounding.

My wife will kill me for sending out pictures with everything covered in dust! I've been sanding a bit here in the house, oops.

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maddog07

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Posts: 585

Re: New project
Reply #15 - 12/30/15 at 22:17:51

yep... Decware tubes on crossoverless, high-efficiency, single driver speakers is the ticket to nirvana... I would not give up my Torii III w/Jupiters for use on these kinds of speakers for any other amp I've ever heard at any price.

and only one suggestion, born out of my own DIY speaker building - dampening material... use "natural" fiber materials, such as cotton/wool felt batting in sheets on the sides, and get the wool madisound sells in 1 lb. bags for loose fill - best sounding stuff I've ever heard. The natural/life-like effect of this stuff on the mids of the driver is really quite astonishing. Stay at least a mile away from acoustic foam, polyester and fiberglass. IME, they are only good for low, low bass like in a sub, as they really butcher the mids and almost always cause a quite audible and distinct "awk". Fiberglass tends to be the worst, usually producing a rather forward/bright/harsh sound.....

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Donnie

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Why does it hurt
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Posts: 2196

Re: New project
Reply #16 - 01/09/16 at 18:09:44

Well, after a couple of weeks of use on these speakers I'm going to pronounce them done. Maybe.
They sound pretty good with the right music and powered by my Torii. They suck with my SS amp and generic Audio Quest wires.
Yes, they have way more bass than any 4" speaker ever should and they can "rock" my room, but there is some midrange shout that I need to tame.
My next project will probably be something a bit larger or possibly less boxlike. Veneering also interests me.
Who knows what kind of ideas could pop into my head.

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Lin Ex Member	Re: New project Reply #17 - 01/24/16 at 04:43:21 Any more thoughts on the speakers Donnie?
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Donnie

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Re: New project
Reply #18 - 01/24/16 at 15:09:24

Lin,
I've been using the Horns for about a month now and am pretty happy with them.
The presentation is definitely a bit forward and really mid range heavy.
They have way more bass than what I thought possible from an 4" driver. I'm considering putting a tweeter on top to see if it adds some sparkle to them.
I really need to work on my finishing skills. The Horns look ok but I'm really picky of my work.
I've been spending a bit of time planning my next builds. First starting with some open baffles maybe using some Wild Burros Betsies. Then a small pair of speakers that will be Fostex based. Then some sort of "Bigger is Better" speaker, you know, refridgerator sized, for my garage, just to piss the neighbors off with.
I really have a good time making these, but I have not a clue of what I'm doing. Maybe some real research and reading needs to be done.

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Lin

Ex Member

Re: New project
Reply #19 - 01/25/16 at 03:34:36

"The presentation is definitely a bit forward and really mid range heavy."

Did you play around with the damping material much?

"They have way more bass than what I thought possible from an 4" driver."

A number of years ago when my BIB cabinets (4" Fostex FE107E) were put together at the local car audio shop I was able to make some of the youngins jaws drop playing some bass music with an SE84B.
A 4" driver and only 2 watts??? Shocked

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Donnie

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Why does it hurt
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Posts: 2196

Re: New project
Reply #20 - 01/27/16 at 23:29:12

Lin,
I haven't messed with the stuffing at all, I just took what came with the kit, divided it by two and stuffed it in there.
I have been thinking about starting out by removing the stuffing completely and working it back in a bit at a time. I might even try some other materials to see what it does.
My open baffle project just took a turn for the better today. A guy that I work with offered me some huge planks of walnut that he has. They still have the sapwood on the sides of them. I'm getting the idea of something that looks like trees growing out of my floor.
Pretty soon I'm not going to have room for all of the speakers that are stuffed in my stereo room.

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Core32 Seasoned Member Posts: 1858	Re: New project Reply #21 - 01/27/16 at 23:40:47 You DO know don't you that there are several folks here that can help you make room for more "projects", right Donnie? You can have an empty room in no time!
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Donnie Seasoned Member Why does it hurt when I pee? Posts: 2196	Re: New project Reply #22 - 01/28/16 at 23:25:40 Core, My talents fall well short of being able to pass my speakers off as sellable. I might be talked into giving them away though....
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Core32 Seasoned Member Posts: 1858	Re: New project Reply #23 - 01/29/16 at 01:59:14 I'm a cheapskate, but not even I am that cheap! LOL.
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