We held our September CDAps meeting yesterday at ProgRob's house.  El Presidente could not attend but I brought his Regen unit and my DIY speakers and a couple flavors of DIY IC (Belden/WE 16g).  New Member Mark brought his UFO Zen.

I will try to capture the high points in order of occurrence, but I am sure Rob and Mark can fill in the details.

We started out listening to Rob's "base" system.  To me it was obvious from the start that he had done some work.  I have been there three times now and he has improved the presence and clarity of his system the last two times.  Rob can fill in the details but he has a new AC outlet, rewired his crossover with WE wire (and stripped out some cheap bits) and has a new PC and balanced ICs.

We listened to some tunes Rob and I knew, then tossed on a song Mark suggested by Thelonious Monk featuring Max Roach (with tympany in his drum set).  We were primarily listening for the lower frequency which Mark said was prominent on his Zen/UFO and Omegas combo at home.  It sounded polite and nice but Mark said the low end was just not there.  We found this surprising given The monster speakers Rob has with two 15" woofers driven by a plate amp.  If Eric were there, I imagine he would have said Rob's zen does not have the steam.

So we moved on to cobbling together some speaker wire so it would reach my speakers which we placed outside of Robs.  The monoliths delivered a nice wall of sound and sounded good in Rob's system.  We played some Bela Fleck to hear some dynamics and then returned to the Monk tune.  A little better bass, but still not what Mark said he heard at home.

OK, now it was time for the Zen with UFOs.  We set it up with my Belden ICs since Mark's amp does not have balanced inputs.  Without the amp warming up, immediately, we heard a bigger, more present sound.  So much so, that Rob very politely asked if we could switch back to his speakers.  I could tell, he knew what he was going to get.

We listened to a couple of our demo songs and again, everything was bigger/better with more gutsy bass.  The kind of bass that thumps your chest.  Then Rob put on some Buckethead to see what the UFOs could do with some rock.  Wham!  It was seriously like he had a whole new system.  The combo of the UFOs and his Hawthornes kicked our ass!

Rob's system had always sounded polite and good to me but I always wanted to hear more of what the Hawthornes could do.  I, like Eric had figured his Zen Select just didn't have the steam.  Not with the UFO zen.  They became monsters and produced the kind of sound two speakers which are literally bigger than me can produce.  Rob was so fired up I doubt he slept last night.

So that was it.  We tried the WE 16g interconnects but the Belden were clearly better.  Rob and Mark felt more focused primarily.  But we didn't even try the Regen.  The UFOs had stolen the show.

We left Rob dumbfounded scheming on how he could get the UFOs.  Something about "maybe for Christmas?"

Thanks Tom for your recap.  Very accurate rendition of events.

Tom alluded to many system changes since the last CDAPS meeting I hosted several months ago.  He was very kind to mention the results of all this work and it is undoubtedly better; I really wish Raven was around to hear it.  Here is a list:

- Removed drop ceiling tiles at first reflection point (increased soundstage height and midrange detail)
- Replaced Maestro outlet in wall with Furutech GTX-D Rhodium (improved detail, definition, shape of notes across frequency spectrum)
- Placed PI Audio "Final Filter" in wall on back of GTX-D outlet (results still TBD)
- Replaced the prior amp receptacle, a Pass & Seymour outlet in UberBUSS with a Maestro (more open, realistic tone and less "warm")
- Replaced Triode Wire Labs 10+ power cord with Digital American cord (more realistic timbre, increased detail, good recordings sound better and bad recordings sound even worse)
- Replaced Coincident Extreme XLR interconnnects with Triode Wire Labs Spirit interconnects (slightly increased tonal density and "maybe" more detail, long burn-in made results hard to quantify)
- Removed Cardas spades from speaker cables to run "bare wire" (increased presence/realism/transparency)
- Removed tin ring tongue connectors in crossover to run wire-to-wire connections instead  (increased presence/realism/transparency)
- Replaced crossover wiring to drivers with WE 16ga wire (increased tonal richness, same detail)
- Placed PI Audio UberBUSS on rack with Herbie's footers (slightly increased bass definition)
- Slight adjustments to speaker position (results unclear)

Despite all this, the first time we queued up the Thelonius Monk track with system in base configuration it was rather "blah".  This was very disappointing to me for various reasons, but especially after all the improvements.  At first I thought maybe it's just a bad recording, but Mark said that bass was better and the performance felt "in the room" on his system.  At this point I was nervous that I was going to bore Mark right out of the house.  It wasn't until we put in the UFO Zen that we all realized how much the new trannies contribute to what he hears at home.

A few words on my amp vs. Mark's UFO.  I have the "Select" version with XLR inputs, meters and stepped attenuator.  The Select lacks a bias switch.  Mark has the "base" Zen with smooth action attenuator, bias switch and RCA inputs only.  To put his Zen in my system we had to make a "compromise" by replacing $450 XLR interconnects with $2 Belden RCAs.  You may have guessed from Tom's post how much that actually mattered to us once we started listening.

It's difficult to fully comprehend people's descriptions of what the UFOs do until you hear it yourself.  I'll just say that the UFOs came closer to reproducing the sound I've been chasing in my head than anything else I've ever heard.  It truly was a "wow" moment.  Listening to "Brewer in the Air" off of Buckethead's Pepper's Ghost album gave me goosebumps.  It sounded real, it was dynamic and the images were massive.  Definitely true to size and what you'd expect from speakers that stand over 60" tall.  The bass is impressive, but it's really the whole spectrum that got a shot in the arm and kicks you in the ass.  By the way, Mark's amp was "cold" when we heard this, maybe on for 30 minutes which is usually in my "don't listen yet" zone, and it's only 3 months old to boot.

My takeaway: the UFO will give me what I loved about hearing Raven's ZMA in my system.  It is a mandatory upgrade.  Everything is bigger and balsier, punchier and more invigorating.  There even more detail, and images seem to float out with such realism it is completely captivating.  This is a fanboy moment for me.  I think Mark and Tom saw how excited I was.

It was a shame not to hear the Uptone Regen, but we had all we could handle last night.  I'm sure it will be the subject of future meetings.  

Rob
 

That would be great.  I could sell a $3000 music server and a $700 S/PDIF cable, which would pay for a few things  :)  Hell, I'm almost prepared to just get some Belden ICs and run single-ended!

I can't say enough good things about the little Zen UFO amp.  If you've got the speakers for it, it's hard to beat.

Recently I picked up a custom built 2A3 SET amp.  The parts alone in it cost more than the little Zen.  Side by side, the 2A3 is almost 3 times as big and 40 pounds heavier.  Listening to the two, I'd be really hard pressed to pick one over the other.

Ozoid here, AKA Mark Paul.

I largely concur with what ProggRob & Palomino have said. One detail they left out is that the album in question is "Brilliant Corners," and it is indeed Brilliant. Recorded in late ’56 and released in ’57. Still in print in CD and LP. (We listened to a Tidal stream.) Sonny Rollins on tenor & Oscar Pettiford on bass; Ernie Royal on alto on some of the tracks. The tune we listened to was "Bemsha Swing." Clark Terry sits in on trumpet and Paul Chambers takes over on bass, and on that tune Max Roach manages to play the traps and timpani simultaneously.

I was, of course, heartened to hear the difference the UFO makes — I'd heard the pre-UFO Zen months before in Steve's listening room but hadn't had an opportunity to A-B the two models. Needless to say, no regrets on this end! Sometimes, procrastinating on audio purchases reaps benefits.

And as good as it sounded, it's even better when fed by Audirvana+ and Meridian's Explorer DAC at 24/176.4 and coming out through Omega Alnico monitors. It isn't just the bass presence (in audiophile terms) but the rich, deep  and complex tonality of all of the instruments, especially the timpani. I've always thought Roach — the master of percussion timbre — was the most tuneful of all jazz drummers but he set the bar especially high on "Bemsha Swing."

Really sorry we ran out of time before we could plug in the Regen. I've heard very good things about it and nothing even neutral.

Everybody who hasn't heard the new transformers but will be attending the Fest is in for a real treat. Sorry, I can't make it.

Great to read guys. I originally was going to get the SuperZen CKCS/UFO RCA in with smooth action volume control a must. However, I went for it and have the Torii JR. UFO coming! I love my power UL with no neg feedback.

I am and will certainly continue to learn a few things about computer audio from your posts and by going to one of your meetings. Also, the fun in comparison of our Systems.

Look forward to your impressions from comparisons at Decfest, as you mentioned Palomino.

The Brilliant Corners we heard at ProggRob's and what I have at home is the mono version. (You're right, Lon. The LP is available from acousticsounds.com.) The stereo, I think, was after the fact pseudo-stereo. There's a lot of that floating around from that period. "BC" is from Riverside and recorded in a Manhattan studio, but here's a discography of Blue Notes, nearly all recorded at Rudy Van Gelder's studio, that distinguishes mono, stereo, and fake stereo:  

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/record-labels-guide/labelography-2/blu...
e-note-mono-stereo-and-pseudo-stereo/

From the same web site, I discovered this essay on Van Gelder's transition from mono to stereo. He was the go-to studio for both Blue Note and Prestige and therefore a really important figure in ’50s & ’60s jazz. I'm still trying to get my head around monitoring a stereo recording with only one speaker!

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/guest-post-how-they-heard-i...
t-blue-note-records-and-the-transition-from-mono-to-stereo/

There's also quite a story about recording "BC's" title tune, which is really difficult to play. After about 25 takes, producer Orin Keepnews thought there was something wrong with the bass mic. Turned out that Oscar Pettiford had completely lost it by then and was only pantomiming. At that point, they gave up and the performance on the record is a collection of splices. And they'd run out of time, so they came back later for "Bemsha Swing." Needless to say, Oscar wasn't invited back, nor was Ernie Royal. Clark Terry and Paul Chambers are hardly second stringers, though.

I just listened to an album of duets by bassist Christian McBride with a variety of artists. The depth and control on his bass is breathtaking. I can visualize how and where he's striking the string. No one hearing this would ever disparage SET's bass performance again.

ozoid wrote on 09/24/15 at 07:27:58:


Hmm. .. I had remembered it as an early stereo recording for that studio (not a Van Gelder or Blue Note record as you know). I know Monk's Music was done in both mono and stereo (and the stereo is a fascinatingly different mix, perhaps I had it confused, will have to do some relistening.}  

I'm well familiar with the evolution of Van Gelder's mono to stereo sound, he was lagging behind a bit from other studios as he prefered mono for monitoring and mixing.

BC is one of Higgins' best recordings.

Well, if you are jonzing for some music, Rachael is ready.

You could stop by this weekend and also hear the regen (if Eric has not pulled it by then).

Sounds good.

I just put Rachael back in.  After I hear your system, I always need a transparency fix.  Rachael at least gets me part way there.

Would they have to extend the full height of the front baffle?

I think we could rig something up with plywood as a test.

ozoid, thanks for the post above, I did some research and Brilliant Corners was a mono only recording. What a fantastic recording. That and Monk's Music and Plays Duke Ellington form my favorite three Monks on Riverside. Timeless.

Lon, I re-discovered "BC" while on a Sonny Rollins/Monk kick last week that included "Monk's Music" & "Monk Plays Ellington." "BC" was a two-fer and I'd completely forgotten about the timpani on Bemsha Swing. A great surprise. Also on that playlist was Rollins's "The Bridge," the album he made after his 3-year sabbatical spent practicing on the Williamsburg Bridge between Manhattan & Brooklyn. No piano, Jim Hall on guitar instead, plus Tony Williams between gigs with Miles. The music is sublime; the engineering absolutely 1st rate.

I love those albums Sonny did for RCA, especially with Jim Hall (a very under-appreciated guitarist). They sound great too, though I don't need fantastic sound to appreciate fantastic music!

Over the years I've learned to appreciate Sonny more than I did in my early decades of listening to jazz. A monster! I've only seen him live once, but I'll never forget it.

USB regen?  You have one?

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Not right now I don't....maybe *you* could ring it down to Decfest for me.  :)  And a few extra bottles of wine too!  

I'm really not sure how much gear I'm going to bring down this year...it seems like so much work to drag down my DirectStream DAC and my mobile audio setup (WiFi and all). I know what it does, and I doubt Steve will let me fly solo with the OTL amp ever again.  LOL


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Round and round we go, right?  Things are getting better though; I've started seeing this redheaded biker chick who is more age appropriate for me. LOL  In fact, I'll be bringing her down with me on Saturday for Decfest so ya'll who are going be on your best behavior!


Back on topic - I have Rob's CKCS with me, dropping it off with Steve tomorrow for the UFO upgrades. I've had it since Saturday afternoon, and I've put about 6 hours on it myself. I have a good feel for it in my room, and I hope to spend a little time with it after UFO upgrade so I can intelligently chime in.

One thing I can say right now - no matter how much I love the little Zen amp, or this fantastic CKCS and it's transparency, the ZMA has kinda ruined me for flea watt amps. I'm really hoping the UFO mod pulls me back into the Zen a bit more...and if it does, I will definitely look into the UFO for my old (1998) Zen amp. Damn, my amp is almost old enough for me to date! LOL