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You all MUST check this out. USB Regen. (Read 9659 times)
vyokyong
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You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
05/20/15 at 06:10:18
 
Hi, If you use USB as in put for your DAC. You all MUST check this out. It does wonders for the sound and at a relative bargain price.

USB Regen, price of USD 175.

http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-...

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-regen-...

It is not an OMG right away but a WOW as you listen to more and more different albums (quality, resolutions) and what it does for the sound as you play them.

1 Regen ordered. For $198.5 - shipped who am I to turn down a tweak you guys are raving about. Coming mid July.

FYI, I have no affiliation of any kind with Uptone Audio.

Just a fellow Audiophile that wants to let other Audiophiles know about a GREAT product.
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vyokyong
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #1 - 05/20/15 at 08:21:51
 
05-14-2015, 11:16 AM #283
AnotherSpin  AnotherSpin is offline
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After ten days of listening Regen I would like to add my impressions.

First, I would like to join my voice with all those who confirmed improvement brought by Regen into their system. I got the same improved clarity, grain and noise decrease, better tone of instruments, more/new sounds from familiar recordings, better dynamics, improved overall musicality and enjoyment from listening.

Additionally to that, I found out:
- musical picture became "bigger", and separate instruments seem to be closer or subjectively "bigger" now;
- I can hear more on low volume with improved lows and highs;
- subjectively, slow music became "slower", fast became "faster";
- symphonic orchestra and opera communicated better, is more true and convincing than before;

Regen is very revealing for both good and bad recordings what may work against some not so well recorded material. It seems some usb cables fit better to Regen than others. Regen needs several burn-in days, at the very first listening sessions I heard some sublime aural pressure which seem to gone in a few days.

With Regen I hear differences in HQ Player settings much clearly than before. When I was trying to change some of HQP settings before Regen I was barely noticing a change if any, now it became much more apparent. Also Regen reveals bigger difference between running OS from ssd vs. sd card.
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SteveC
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #2 - 05/20/15 at 08:42:47
 
anyone know if schiit wyrd is the same thing?  $99

http://schiit.com/products/wyrd

they say its real claim to fame is providing clean usb power that doesn't interfere with your bits.  and only possibly necessary if you have noisy usb power such that it affects your dacs ability to play your music.

basically they is it's a high quality powered usb hub.
clean power and signal repeater.
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vyokyong
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #3 - 05/20/15 at 08:54:35
 
USB Regen does two functions;

First, the USB REGEN takes the digital audio stream from your computer or other music streaming device, and generates a completely new USB data signal to feed to your DAC.  It accomplishes this by combining a carefully chosen USB hub chip with an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock.  Importantly, it does so with ideal impedance matching—right at the input of your DAC.

The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it—via a second ultra low-noise regulator.

This secondary function is same as Schiit Wyrd. Simply put, it cleans up your USB connection, eliminating noise and glitches caused by crappy USB power or USB port power management. It is a linear power supply through USB cable for DAC.
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vyokyong
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #4 - 05/20/15 at 09:11:28
 
Quote Originally Posted by Superdad  View Post
Well Jason at Schiit does not like to make claims (I admire that among many other excellent business practices of theirs), but in his long blog/book on HeadFi he does talk about the SQ differences the Wyrd can make. But as John pointed out, the degree depends upon both the computer and the DAC. But the design of both the Wyrd and our Regen is absolutely not just about providing cleaner 5V USBVbus power. One does not need a hub chip, clocks, etc. to do that. In fact, in designing the piece, John and I discussed whether to even interrupt the USB VBus power to provide our own, but of course it made sense to do so.

So yes, both the Wyrd and the Regen will perform their primary purpose even if the DAC does not use 5V Vbus power at all. (John did some trick things to make ours work/sound extra good: 4 layer board with impedance-controlled output, ultra low-noise regulators, external DC supply--Wyrd brings low voltage AC into it, no USB output cable--I'll be proving USB A>B solid adapter so tiny box can go at the DAC and not introduce another USB cable.)

As for the advantages, it comes back to the research he has been doing on packet noise (where poor SI makes the DAC's USB PHY and processor work harder--causing internal modulation at both 8KHz packet rate and wideband), power distribution networks, etc. So Regn places creation of new and clean USB signal right at the DAC. Kind of like an external version of an audiophile USB card (SOtM, Paul Pang, etc.), but at the correct end of the cable and not powered by the computer. A boon for Mac users for whom such cards don't even exist.
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vyokyong
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #5 - 05/20/15 at 10:33:25
 
05-08-2015, 04:27 PM #257
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I have finally have the time to write my impressions. I tested the REGEN in two different systems.
The first system was at the Lone Star Audio Fest here in Dallas. I received the REGEN on Saturday and went to the LSAF on Sunday late afternoon. Luckily Dave from Raven Audio still had his system set up and he was so kind to let me use it. Sunday afternoon the kids were at home and a decent comparison session would have been impossible  BTW, his system has me, a solid-state-guy, rethinking tubes and definitely showed me that I had listened to the Legacy Audio Aeris speakers in a terrible system.
Here's his system: PC > Mytek Manhatten > Goldfinch pre/Silhoutte Mk 2 pre > Spirit Mk2 Monos > Legacy Audio Focus HD. All cables were Douglas Connection top cables (I bought the Alpha-1 speaker cables after our listening session).
There's not much to say, actually, since the difference was so immediate and obvious that we only swapped it out once just in order to get a better grip on the differences. Dave also has very trained ears and our observations were pretty much the same. We quickly re-inserted the REGEN, since listening just wasn't as enjoyable without it anymore. I'll describe the main improvements at the end of this post.
Today I also had finally some time to listen to it in my system, since I had been travelling since Monday.
Here's my system: SBT w/ Welborne PSU > Resolution Audio Cantata > Gryphon Diablo > Evolution Acoustics MicroOne. I was using the Light Harmonic Lightspeed red USB cable. I also used a "normal" USB cable with a ferrite in order to see if cables matter with a REGEN in the digital chain.
So, enough talk... here's a summary of the results:
w/ REGEN
cleaned the whole sound, but not in a abrasive/chemical way. It's as if dust and dirt has been removed from crevices and corners revealing textures that were hidden and, simultaneously, someone showed up with a wet cloth, which made colours and timbres come to life, but in a completely natural way. Taking the REGEN out took timbres, colors and textures away, as if a fine gray dust had settled on the sound. The following points are probably the result of this main trait.
sound stage depth increased quite a bit
small inflections and inner detail increased quite a lot. I started to hear new details in the lower and mid frequencies, so in the regions that aren't necessarily affected if there were a fake tilt in the higher frequencies that sometimes create a sense of detail.
complex harmonics like Timpani and Glockenspiel decay were far more resolved and natural
wood sounds like wood (e.g knocking on double bass), and the prior sounds that mimicked wood now sound more like thick cardboard.

Belive me, it's hard to live without it after having it in your system.
Comparing the Lightspeed with my normal USB cable with ferrite made both cables sound spookily close. I guess that differences between good cables and the top cables will still be there, but by a far smaller fraction. The main differences were a slight lack of finesse and a less resolved sound, but it was subtle. I'm not even sure that many will be able to spot the differences without going back and forth quite a few times.
I know see that this post could sound like an ad, so let me make it clear: I am NOT affiliated with the creators of the REGEN, although I'd love to be able brag about having contributed to any of it. Unfortunately, like most of us here, we didn't. So, honor to whom honor is due, John and Alex. #respect
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will
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #6 - 05/22/15 at 00:21:09
 
Thanks vyokyong. Sounds like a great idea that worked!
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vyokyong
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #7 - 05/22/15 at 04:47:16
 
You're welcome, Will.
I will give my review opinion after I get and try USB Regen for 2 weeks.
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vyokyong
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #8 - 06/12/15 at 04:25:26
 
More impression from Audiogon member.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1432849819
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Palomino
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #9 - 08/23/15 at 14:13:56
 
I contacted the U.S. distributer for tmy he USB/SPDIF converter to get his take on the Regen and to see if I would benefit given I have the USB/SPDIF in the chain.

He said devices like this do provide better SQ (system dependent on how much) and would provide an improvement given that my converter is not galvanically isolated.

But he recommended I spend less and buy this unit:

https://electronics-shop.dk/usb_isolation.htm?currency=USD

He said for $50 (versus $150), it provides the same benefits.

So I contacted the designer after seeing a post over on head-fi and he basically said save your money.  Beyond what his unit does, the rest is hocus pocus.

After a little more back and forth with the designer and reading the Regen designer notes, I am not convinced that the lower cost device guy is correct.  If seems that the Regen does function as a hub with new information generated, where the cheaper device does not.  Is that important?

I think only an A/B test will tell.  I may buy the $50 device and Raven has the Regen on order.  They are constantly backordered so he won't get it till September some time.

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Dave1210
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #10 - 08/24/15 at 23:50:50
 
It seems that some go to great lengths to get the source sounding good for computer audio.  I don't use a computer as my main source but I am headed towards that.  My secondary source at the moment is a MacBook Pro w/SSD running Audirvana (I use it mostly for High Res and DSD).  I also stream TIDAL via the same laptop using Amarra TIDAL.  That said, I am seeking out a more permanent computer audio solution.  

Palomino...we need your priority list of items that matter for using a computer as a source!
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #11 - 08/25/15 at 14:26:31
 
Hmmm, I haven't thought of it in terms of priority, but here is what I have done in what I remember to be order of impact:

1. External LPSU with internal power filter (Teradak for about $350, I think)

2. Installed a SSD for the OS

2.  Used an applescript written by someone over at computer audiophile which creates a ramdisk and copies the Audirvana application to it.  It also creates a separate ramdisk for music.  Some claim this to be an improvement even though Audirvana loads the song into ram prior to playback.

3.  Bought a high speed SD card and loaded music on that.

4.  A few tweaks to Audirvana.  I don't recall all of them off hand, but I run 2X oversampling which I think gives me some lift.

5. Music on an external 2TB firewire HD powered by a battery, not a wall wart.  The battery is a pain, but I perceived degradation with a switching power supply anywhere in the system.

I also bought a USB to SPDIF converter, but that is more of Chord DAC thing.  The first iteration of the Chord Qute sounds better via SPDIF.

Some people install fan kits or run the fan via external power supply, etc. but I haven't gone there and probably won't.  There is other internal shielding you can do as well.

When I am trying to get the best sound I can, I run the ram disk application, copy music onto the SD card, run Audirvana stand alone.

I will be interested in what the regen or regen like product can do.
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Core32
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #12 - 08/25/15 at 15:08:04
 
Palomino,
What model Mac Mini are you using and do you know if any particular model is better or easier to work with?
There are a lot of models I see out there and I suppose doing some research at CA would behoove me, but might as well ask.  :)
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Palomino
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #13 - 08/25/15 at 15:12:17
 
I have a late 2010.  Still has the optical drive.

I haven't done much research on which model is better.  The pre-2010 models have the external power supply so easier to mod, but you may run into performance issues with the new OS.  Not sure though.

OS may have more to do with sound than anything.  I am running Mavericks.  Not sure about the latest version.

Another thing I didn't mention since I bought mine with 8GB of ram, but I think that much ram is a good thing too.

Note: Edited due to having my Mac Mini year wrong.  2010 is when they went to the internal supply, not 2009.  Thanks Will.
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Palomino
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #14 - 08/25/15 at 18:16:54
 
BTW, I am still trying to confirm that the less expensive devices will pass 24/192.  The HifimeDIY one listed here will not.  Seems to be based on the same chips.

[url][/http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFimeDIY-USB-Isolator-ADUM4160-5KV-1KV-signal-voltage-i...

USB Full Speed 12Mbps is sufficient for samples rates up to 96khz/24bit. But it will not work with 192khz/24bit samples  rates as this requires USB "High Speed" 480Mbps (the is currently no chips available supporting USB "High speed")
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Lonely Raven
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #15 - 08/27/15 at 16:00:35
 

Hrm, I didn't think of bandwidth limitations of these devices...As Palomino mentioned, I have the UpTone Audio USB Regen on order, simply because Ted_b from Computer Audiophile raved about it on the PS Audio forum (I trust his thoughts - he's proven himself again and again in my mind. Even though the CA Forums think PS Audio are crooks, Ted_b still uses the PS Audio DirectStream).

Due to my changed domestic situation, I'm no longer able to afford putting money into audio - so this USB Regen is my last audio purchase for a long while. I'm hoping it's worth it, but since it's sold out 4-6 weeks in advance; it shouldn't be difficult to resell if I don't like it.

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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #16 - 08/27/15 at 16:59:17
 
I am trying to figure out how I can buy one.  Lots of checks flying out the door here.

I have read about it on multiple forums and how it works in combination with multiple DACs and even USB/SPDIF converters.  I've probably read 50 or so impressions and 2 said it didn't provide lift.  About 1/2 said significant lift.

Still looking for Ted's review.  I do like his opinions.  His review of the Chord DAC and Matrix SPDIF converter pushed me to buy.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #17 - 08/27/15 at 17:06:54
 
BTW, I downloaded Yosemite after reading some positive reviews of how it plays with Audirvana using direct mode.  It does sound nice. Not sure if its a big improvement.  Seems a little smoother, but hard to A/B system changes.  It certainly didn't take things backwards.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #18 - 08/27/15 at 17:21:01
 

I need to try JRiver or some other software to at least see if Foobar is worth the setup/config adjustments. I'm still having trouble getting internet radio working with Foobar, and that was one feature I really enjoyed when I borrowed/demo'd the Zen CD Player.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #19 - 08/27/15 at 20:34:46
 

Hrumph. I should pay more attention to the PS Audio forums. I've not been here or there much lately. But what does this sound like to you guys.

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/accessories-cables-and-room-tuning/new-usb-device-a...

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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #20 - 08/27/15 at 20:44:10
 
Isolation, and probably regeneration to get the extra length on the USB cords.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #21 - 08/27/15 at 21:34:08
 
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #22 - 08/27/15 at 21:35:44
 
Heard about it.  Paul at PS Audio said it provided an audible difference but his socks were still on.  I haven't done any research on it.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #23 - 08/27/15 at 22:45:38
 
Well, here is a good review of the options out there.  Regen wins, but combos of the three are interesting.

/http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-accessory-roundup-uptone-audio-usb-regen-...

In other news, I am becoming quite fond of Yosemite/Audirvana.  A more natural, relaxed and open sound.  More reverberant details.  I listened all day to that combo and really enjoyed the music.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #24 - 08/27/15 at 23:18:14
 
I got my Regen a couple of days ago and with a little burn in it is sounding excellent. I've paid much more for tweaks that I've had to really listen carefully to detect a difference but not with the Regen. I'm not sure whether to call it a tweak or component but huge improvement using it in between my computer and Berkley Alpha USB device and at a fraction of the price of the Alpha USB.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #25 - 08/28/15 at 09:01:54
 
I just got my USB Regen and play with it 3 hours. It is connected in between Mac Mini and Empire Audio Offramp 5 USB/SPDIF converter to Audio Note DAC mod to level 4.1.

The sound is quite obvious different after USB Regen is installed. It provides;

1) More black background noise.
2) More depth sound stage (may be 25% increase in depth).
3) Midrange and high frequency sound are more focused and pin point positioning in stage.
4) More details of nuances and timbre.
5) More dynamics and hear more louder (at same volume level).

Only weak point is that it is a little more harsh sound. However I think that because it does not pass burn in yet. It is only 2-3 hours playing after open the box. It may need to be played > 200 hours burn in and the harsh sound may be gone.

However after USB Regen is installed in your system, you will feel like you get new DAC. The sound different is like that you get new DAC in your system. If you like new sound different then it is a RAVE tweaks to spend only USD 175 to get new DAC.

The USB Regen is ground isolate and 5V electric supply isolate from computer already so that no need to spend money on any ground isolate device of USB cable.

I will report more when USB Regen is played more than 200 hours.

By the way, I am very happy now of its performance.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #26 - 08/28/15 at 12:44:25
 

Wow, I'm hoping mine shows up soon! But last I checked, the August orders were shipping first week of September - so I'm expecting mid September.

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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #27 - 08/28/15 at 22:08:09
 
Nice! I just got shipping notice (Seconds ago) that my USB Regen has shipped this afternoon!

I probably won't see it till I get back from Peoria on Tuesday, so I'll update this thread when I get a few hours on it.

With my system, changes are pretty apparent, pretty quickly. Especially now that my overall noise floor has dropped at the house.  :)

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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #28 - 09/03/15 at 04:18:21
 
Hi,

Just update of USB Regen.

The more hours played USB Regen, the more harsh sound gone. The harsh sound may be come from the 22 watt/7.5V/2.93A (overkill) tabletop (93 x 54 x 36mm) world-voltage-compatible SMPS which is to power USB Regen.

Then it is needed to be burn in.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #29 - 09/03/15 at 20:22:32
 
I got my USB Regen on Tuesday night - I've not had much time on it yet. Still figuring it out. I'm going to let Palomino listen before I post any thoughts on it. I've had it plugged in and playing none stop for two days now...if it does need burn-in, it's getting it now.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #30 - 09/08/15 at 14:25:31
 
I stopped by Raven's Multi-media lair yesterday to give the regen a listen.  I will wait for his report before chiming in.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #31 - 09/09/15 at 20:46:50
 
Raven said he's tied up so go ahead.  Here is my brief report.  The entire listening session was probably 30-45 minutes but enough to form an opinion.

He had the regen running into his PS Audio DS Dac via the hard extension supplied with the regen.  We listened to a few different artists, but our A/B tune was primarily Jersey Girl by Holly Cole.  I think a 24/96 version.

I thought it was fairly easy to see that there was a difference with the Regen in the system.  Better focus/positioning on the instruments for me (I was in the sweet spot) and more detail.  

For example, there is a tambourine that is in the Jersey girl song.  With the Regen, it sounds more like a real tambourine where you hear the multiple "clinks" (for lack of a better word).  Without it, you hear it as more of a single clink and it just wasn't as real.  Some people say more air with the regen.  I didn't necessarily hear that.

On Computer Audiophile, they talk about a 20% increase (subjective I know), but Raven and I independently put our own subjective rating lower.  He said 10%, I said 10% to 15%.  Worth the $175, I think.

Anyway, I bought one an will try it out with the supplied SMPS and a small linear supply I have that puts out 5-6v.  The manufacturer is backed up so I won't have it till October.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #32 - 09/10/15 at 21:36:20
 

The designer says that each system is going to react differently because of how the device interacts with the DAC chip. So improved bass might simply not be something the DS sees with this combination.

I also feel the 20% improvement is is relative as well. Where my system stands now, with the Yale Final on the DS, and Zen Mystery Amp, and decent cables, and a highly tweaked Tiny Form Factor PC...10% is a pretty big improvement, especially to squeeze out of a $175 device!

Yeah, it's staying in the system, I just need to find a safer way of hanging it off the DS with the "solid" USB plug.

If I could find a Jitterbug in stock, I'd try that as well.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #33 - 09/11/15 at 14:00:48
 
I have taken a different path investing more in my room to get the best sound, but I am confident that I'll get some improvement out of this little device.  

Yeah, improved bass was another thing I did not notice on Raven's system with the regen, although it is widely reported over on CA.

There are some good reports of it working with Chord DACs, albeit the EX or 2Qute.  The weakness of the Chord QuteHD when it first came out was the USB interface.  Thus I bought the SDIF converter.  I will be trying it with both the converter and direct into the DAC to see which sounds better.  Net/net I could end up being able to sell one of my coax cables and the converter and more than pay for the regen.

I ordered some right angle RCA adapters so I can use the short solid USB adapter with either the SDIF or direct to the Chord.  Maybe I can lure Eric back over to my place with regen in hand Wink.

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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #34 - 09/17/15 at 14:34:10
 
I mentioned this in the weekend audio tweaks thread, but thought I would also mention it here where it is more on-topic.  I took a TeraDak linear power supply adjusted to about 6V to Eric's house to see how what effect it had on SQ when using the Regen.

It did help, particularly in the bass region where it tightened up and focused the bass.

I am looking forward to having one in my system.  I am getting a fantastic sound stage but everything could use a little tightening up/focus/detail like I heard at Eric's both times.  Granted he is running a ZMA/PS Audio DS DAC, but I have found anything that helps the source sounds better on the Torii/Chord combo I have.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #35 - 09/17/15 at 16:48:35
 

This still all boggles my mind, because I came from the "bits is bits" mentality, and a USB hub (Regenerator) and changing a power supply on said regenerator shouldn't make a difference. But it does. I've even gone as far as doing the PS Audio "bit perfect" test on the DAC to prove that with and without the Regen, the bit's are technically the same. So there is a lot more going on here then just bits (I have friends who still poo-poo this, but I don't know enough to counter their reasoning why bits are bits).

But I heard everything Palo heard. I was sitting off-axis at my computer desk playing DJ, so I didn't hear as much imaging as I did tightening and focus and micro-detail.

Quote:
I ordered some right angle RCA adapters so I can use the short solid USB adapter with either the SDIF or direct to the Chord.  Maybe I can lure Eric back over to my place with regen in hand Wink.


I have a date with my new favorite girl this weekend, but I don't know if it will be Saturday or Sunday yet. I'm probably available around Noon either day though. Ping me and we'll figure it out.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #36 - 09/17/15 at 16:54:47
 

Also, I'm going to cut a wood block to hold up the Regen and keep it from sagging on the USB port on the DS. I'd hate to have to pay for a new board because the USB got damaged.

Also part 2 - I may be looking at taking on roommate to help make ends meet. So my 2am listening sessions and that spare bedroom are probably going away for a few months.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #37 - 09/17/15 at 17:55:27
 
I have read some of the technical stuff on this gizmo and they don't focus exclusively on regenerating the bits but also on lowering the noise that is generated "where the bits get processed."  

A lower noise signal being read in by the DAC (the designer calls it signal integrity) makes the DAC work less hard and as a result, it produces less noise at the first stage of processing.  

The regen itself produces noise as it processes the USB signal coming in, so the higher quality signal coming in makes it work less hard and thus produces less noise on the output to the DAC.  That's why a higher quality USB cords have been shown to still improve the overall sound.

Still USB cords can introduce some noise in the signal and that's why after the regen and going into the dac, the preference seems to be for the short adapter rather than a USB cord.  Shorter length = less impact on the signal.

Finally, a linear power supply (or batteries) also don't add as much noise (as the SMPS) to either the mains or the regen itself, thus it seems to help SQ as well.

Seems the whole computer/USB chain has the potential to introduce noise at each link.  This thing works on one of the links.

I don't know if I got this completely right or if any of this makes EE sense, but I do know it sounds gooder.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #38 - 09/17/15 at 23:05:44
 
Quote:
This still all boggles my mind, because I came from the "bits is bits" mentality, and a USB hub (Regenerator) and changing a power supply on said regenerator shouldn't make a difference. But it does. I've even gone as far as doing the PS Audio "bit perfect" test on the DAC to prove that with and without the Regen, the bit's are technically the same.


Quote:
Seems the whole computer/USB chain has the potential to introduce noise at each link.  This thing works on one of the links.
I don't know if I got this completely right or if any of this makes EE sense, but I do know it sounds gooder.


Being a EE for 30+ years, I hesitate to comment on this...mainly because my hearing is not so great any longer and "differences" have to be pretty extreme for me to notice. Volume changes and noise are easy but quality of reproduction, etc. are not.
So I will limit my comments to this:
Bits are bits, but lots of "unwanted stuff" can be brought along with the "wanted stuff" (bits). The transmitters, receivers and auto-correction codecs used for most hardware links like USB, Ethernet, I2S, etc. have become so immune to out-of-band noise (data/clock, tx/rx band, not audio band) that the reconstruction of the data itself is almost always bit perfect at the receiving end. If the link signal quality is so poor due to cable length, poor connections, poor termination, impedance mismatch, interference, etc., that the data can't be reconstructed near perfect, then all sorts of bad things happen and more than likely the result will be audibly awful or even not recognizable enough by the DAC for playback. So that's probably NOT where this type device is helping, in most reasonably decent setups.
However, the "unwanted stuff", even the seemingly not harmful to the data stuff, still has to be disposed of (filtered, etc.) or it just continues to pollute the analog resultant, gets amplified more than once up the chain and based on how good the reproduction equipment is we hear it manifested in untold number of ways.
So, if you can clean up the waste, even the waste that seems to have no effect on the data accuracy, before it gets to the end, even perfect looking data "could" be made to sound better. And in the case of USB this also applies to the power transfer, if it's used, probably even more as that tends to be unimportant and gets overlooked in other uses for USB (non-audio).
Maybe a weak analogy would be cleaning up muddy water. The H2O itself (bits) is still in there in pure form. The regen is a course filter that takes out the worst of the mud, even to the point of the water looking clean and clear, but there's still something remaining that makes it taste funny. Then the DAC and it's circuitry are free to fine-filter out the bad taste without having to clean out the mud....ahhh, maybe not that simple! lol
I'm not saying the regen is just some noise filter but it may be helping to reduce the things that can create more noise or that allow more noise and artifacts into the system. JMO. YMMV. WTF...
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #39 - 09/17/15 at 23:18:33
 
The only thing I would add to your analogy is that a quality USB cord filters out some mud, then the regen filters out some more mud so the DAC doesn't have to work too hard to filter out the rest (and in doing so create any new mud itself).

Eric refers to me as "old man" and I can still hear the difference the regen makes! Wink
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #40 - 09/21/15 at 18:52:56
 
OK Raven stopped by on Saturday and we listened to the Regen a little bit.  We tried it going into the SPDIF converter and directly into the Chord DAC.  We heard differences in each configuration.  It was hard to A/B though because of the DAC losing the handshake after each change.

The setup was also less than optimal.  In order to use the short, solid USB connector running from the regen to either the SPDIF converter or the DAC, we had to use these RCA angled connectors and they are crap.  It completely flattened the soundstage.

So we bailed on the solid USB connector and used Ravens USB cord running from the regen to the SPDIF.  This produced music where instruments more in the background came forward and sounded more "real."  Raven commented about a drum in a Heart song sounding more like it was loose material fitted over a drum head.  You could hear how loose it was.  We also heard one things like breaths being taken.  So more detail for sure.

One thing I was concerned by with the instruments coming forward the soundstage depth was compromised.  Eric thought the vocals were a bit etched with the regen.

Raven left the regen with me until he gets back from his weekly travels.  I was able to get it to run directly into the DAC with the solid connector without the use of the angled RCAs.  This produced the best sound yet.  All instruments sound more lifelike.  The sense of depth is back.  Also, I had the WE 16g interconnects in the system the whole time Eric was here.  I switched back to the Belden ICs and dialed the treble back just a touch.  This seemed to alleviate the etched vocals.

So I am excited about this.  I may be able to ditch the SPDIF converter and the coax and go straight into the DAC with the regen.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #41 - 09/22/15 at 23:25:23
 
I spent the last two days working at home and listened the entire day both days.  This regen is a must in my system.  

I think it may be a must for any computer generated audio with USB.  This is so smooth and detailed its a no brainer.  They are really on to something here.

$175 for the regen and $75 for the LPSU.  So $250 for this sound.  Great bargain.

First this, then the UFOs.  Good month for the hobby.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #42 - 09/28/15 at 22:09:37
 

It's a great little toy, isn't it? I'm looking forward to getting it back into my system. Maybe even trying to move my system into the spare bedroom on a trial run and see what kind of sound I can get. So enjoy it while you can.  :)

Now I just need to figure out how to explain to my techy friends how it works, and why it's not placebo.  I'm having some trouble speaking to this. Palo, have you seen any links describing this well?
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #43 - 09/29/15 at 00:07:07
 
Yeah their site has good explanations.  Ted smiths explanation mirrors their explanation as well.  Keep the discussion focused on noise and not bits and I think you will avoid a bits is bits argument.  Bad signal makes the dac work harder and that creates noise.

I should get my own unit soon.   I think I am in the first Oct batch.



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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #44 - 09/29/15 at 03:23:29
 
Here is other opinion against REGEN USB! Just for some negative opinion for your consideration. However I have my REGEN USB installed in my system and will not pull it out.

Dare I Mention The Regen Again?

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5245

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18580-Science-Thread-Review-of-Audi...
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #45 - 09/29/15 at 12:39:11
 
Thanks.  I had read the first but not the second so that was new information.  As a layman, I do see some flaws in the testing in the second review but it's not worth more discussion.   I do think it's important to scroll down and see the color spectrum graph which I think more clearly represents what I hear.

I will say this.  The effect is more pronounced in my system than it is in Ravens.  So the degree of impact seems to be system dependent.  Also the short USB connector sounds much better than the cheap USB Cord they include.  My spdif converter is out of the system now and a lpsu greatly enhances the sound.

I listened to EmmyLou Harris Wrecking Ball last night.  This is a complex layered recording that my buddy in the biz raved about and I always thought it sounded congested.  Well with the regen it was certainly less congested last night.   I finally started hearing what I think he was talking about.  

There are about 2000 owners out there now.  More than a couple would be crying bs if this thing didn't have a positive impact in what you hear.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #46 - 09/29/15 at 14:27:39
 

Quote:
There are about 2000 owners out there now.  More than a couple would be crying bs if this thing didn't have a positive impact in what you hear.


"It's a placebo and they are all deluding themselves so they feel like they got their money's worth"

Seriously - I hear that every damn time I bring up my gear.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #47 - 09/29/15 at 15:10:38
 
I had some respect for his diligence in his tests till he said that.  Then he lost me.
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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #48 - 09/30/15 at 02:48:04
 
Yesterday I just changed from stock SMPS to battery. The sound quality improves significantly. It is not subtle. It likes that you open your glass window and see through without glass window. The background is more black and transparency. All the glare, particularly of high frequency range is totally disappear. Both frequency top and bottom extend more. I highly recommend to use battery or LPS instead of stock SMPS.

Here is the weblink from e-Bay.
Battery.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-CCTV-Cam-6800mAh-F47-...

TeraDak LSP.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130912875418?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301694857782?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STR...

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Re: You all MUST check this out. USB Regen.
Reply #49 - 09/30/15 at 07:43:59
 
I wonder how the iFi Audio iUSB3.0 may fair against the Regen?
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