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HAWTHORNE 15" AUGIE: (Read 4469 times)
DBC
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HAWTHORNE 15" AUGIE:
05/06/15 at 21:24:50
 
Quote:
ProggRob wrote:

I'm not sure these have any technical issues with break-up, resolution or speed at higher frequencies (within reason, of course, since they aren't full range), but rather a simple overabundance with frequencies 50hz - 150hz coming out of 6 drivers simultaneously.  "Integration" is the word I suppose I'm looking for.  I just sort of ruined things for me.  Of course now, I want to go home and try again!


ProggRob, I started a new thread as not to Hijack the other. I've run my twin Mid Bass Modules (12" downfiring drivers in each) with my Klipsch RF-7 mains (two 10" drivers in each) for a total of 6 drivers and they integrate seamlessly.

You used the term Muddlied Bass when setting the crossover between 80 to 120hz. Would this be the same as what I refer to as Boomy? Boomy to me is generally caused by sub hum or unwanted room interactions that cause a narrow frequency range to be reinforced above the rest of the range.

Initialy I had a hum in my Mid Bass Modules that I finally tracked down to a ground loop and resolved. Then I realized as I increased the Mid Bass Volume my floors & walls began to vibrate causing unwanted Bass reinforcement by the room (Boomy). I placed my down-firing Mid Bass Modules on Subwoofer Isolation Platforms and resolved the unwanted floor & wall vibrations. I also found that speaker level connections to my Mid Bass Modules created a much more seamless integration between Mains and Mid Bass Modules.

Now if I turn the Volume up to high it simply sounds like too much Bass. It's still smooth just too much low end for the music being played. It does not get Boomy since resolving the issues noted above.
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
Room #2: Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CS amp, Omega Super 3i Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 12's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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DBC
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Re: HAWTHORNE 15" AUGIE:
Reply #1 - 05/06/15 at 21:39:05
 
Quote:
PrggRob wrote:

DBC - thanks for the links!  I'm going to check these out.  Here's what I'm running (2 drivers per channel in OB configuration)

http://www.hawthorneaudio.us/catalogs/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&p....

I'm not sure these have any technical issues with break-up, resolution or speed at higher frequencies (within reason, of course, since they aren't full range), but rather a simple overabundance with frequencies 50hz - 150hz coming out of 6 drivers simultaneously.  "Integration" is the word I suppose I'm looking for.  I just sort of ruined things for me.  Of course now, I want to go home and try again!


I checked out the link to the 15" Augies. According to this quote from an independent review they should be able to play at higher frequencies:

Quote:
The 15” Silver Iris Augie was well reviewed by Dick Olsher of “Enjoy the Music.com” Following is an excerpt taken from his review of the 15” Augie. “It seems to me that many listeners confuse bass weight with bass extension and opt for a subwoofer when bass weight is lacking. The problem typically lies in the upper bass, the octave from 120Hz to 240Hz where much of an orchestra's foundation and acoustic power resides. This is the octave that box woofers have a hard time coping with, basically managing to sound boxy through this range. In contrast, the Augie managed to shine here, elucidating instrumental fundamentals with consummate clarity and 3D realism.


ProggRob, I'm curious what type of amp you are using to drive these? Are you using Line Level connections (interconnects) to these amps? If your are using Line Level connections then I recommend you try Speaker Level connections which I find integrates more seamlessly with the mains.

I assume you are running your mains Full Range ???
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
Room #2: Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CS amp, Omega Super 3i Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 12's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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DBC
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Re: HAWTHORNE 15" AUGIE:
Reply #2 - 05/06/15 at 23:49:53
 
Quote:
ProggRob wrote:

DBC - I am using a speaker level connection from the Zen to two (2) separate Rythmik A370PEQ plate amplifiers, 375w each into 4 ohms.  The Augies in each channel are wired in series to present a 4 ohm load to the plate amps.  The plate amps can crossover as high as 120hz with (I think) a 12db/octave slope, but no higher.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/PEQ_quickguide.pdf

The mains are running full range, and play down to about 50-55hz before a very steep roll-off.


ProggRob,

I don't have personal experience with the Augie's. My Mid Bass Modules and the Omega DeepOmega Sub have very light 12" driver cones for speed at the higher frequencies. Not sure if the 15" Augie's are light enough (fast enough) and that may be the reason for the Muddled Bass at higher crossover frequencies.

I have a pair of HSU ULS-15 Subs (15" drivers). These are great Subs at a crossover of 60hz & below. As you describe, they get what I call Flabby around 80hz & above.

So I'm not sure why you are not able to achieve the same performance as quoted by the reviewer comments below?

Quote:
The 15” Silver Iris Augie was well reviewed by Dick Olsher of “Enjoy the Music.com” Following is an excerpt taken from his review of the 15” Augie. “It seems to me that many listeners confuse bass weight with bass extension and opt for a subwoofer when bass weight is lacking. The problem typically lies in the upper bass, the octave from 120Hz to 240Hz where much of an orchestra's foundation and acoustic power resides. This is the octave that box woofers have a hard time coping with, basically managing to sound boxy through this range. In contrast, the Augie managed to shine here, elucidating instrumental fundamentals with consummate clarity and 3D realism.


This Comment:

"It seems to me that many listeners confuse bass weight with bass extension and opt for a subwoofer when bass weight is lacking. The problem typically lies in the upper bass, the octave from 120Hz to 240Hz where much of an orchestra's foundation and acoustic power resides."

This is perhaps the best description of what the Mid Bass Module does. I've always said I would choose the Mid Bass Module over a Sub any day of the week because the reinforcement up into the 150hz range is where the Weight is.
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
Room #2: Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CS amp, Omega Super 3i Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 12's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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ProggRob
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Re: HAWTHORNE 15" AUGIE:
Reply #3 - 05/07/15 at 00:29:05
 
Thanks for starting a new thread!  I think the difference may lie in the characteristics of our main drivers.  Mine is also 15", so perhaps it's too much of a good thing to run them so high.  When I got home today I immediately started tinkering and now have them crossing over at 75hz.  I'm going to live with it for a while and see if I can detect weaknesses in the presentation.  I'll gradually turn up the crossover point to see where it becomes unacceptable.

At any rate, it's always fun to revisit things after putting it to bed for a while.  Perspectives change over time!
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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Denefrips Terminator -> Black Cat Setsuna XLR -> LTA Ultralinear Integrated -> Black Cat Setsuna SC -> Betsy Alnicos
Bass: 4x Hawthorne Augies w/ 2 Rythmik amps
Power: TWL 7+ and Digital, UberBUSS, Furutech Outl
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ProggRob
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Posts: 239
Re: HAWTHORNE 15" AUGIE:
Reply #4 - 05/07/15 at 17:34:13
 
Update after an evening and morning of crossover experimentation: in my system, the Augies need to get the hell out of the way of the mains and provide support in the sub-bass range.  I'm relieved that my previous experiments did not err; I'm in the right place.

On some tracks, the additional frequencies 75-120hz were really cool, but on others it is a nuisance.  If I'm to pick a setting that works for all music, Augies are relegated to sub-bass duties.

Rob
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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Denefrips Terminator -> Black Cat Setsuna XLR -> LTA Ultralinear Integrated -> Black Cat Setsuna SC -> Betsy Alnicos
Bass: 4x Hawthorne Augies w/ 2 Rythmik amps
Power: TWL 7+ and Digital, UberBUSS, Furutech Outl
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