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Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn... (Read 20831 times)
mark58
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Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
04/19/15 at 11:47:30
 
Well Will,  call me a speaker wire/cable agnostic.  Somehow I can't bring myself to buy into all the wire hype.  But since I wasn't quite sure, I did pay about $150 for a 10ft Libtec pair via ebay auction...I got my other pair free with the Zu Audio speakers. What would be a very cheap cooper cable to try?  I'd even go for something sold by the foot at Home Depot, Walmart, Radio Shack...or extension cord.  For these low power tube amps, what gauge is best for the 10 foot runs I'm using?

I'll take recommendations from all....high price or low.  Let's do it...have the speaker/power cable debate.  I'm willing to listen and learn.  I may have opened a can of worms.  Mark.

PS...I guess I should add that I spent about $500 for an after market Cable made of silver and gold for my Audeze headphones and one for several hundred dollars for the HD 800 Headphones....I'm clearly confused about the whole "Wire"  thing.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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will
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #1 - 04/19/15 at 14:01:44
 
Hey Mark,

In my experience, there is no debate. Different wires and configurations sound different... even different connectors. Jeez, I even hear a notable shift when I get around to cleaning and conditioning connections, though I usually do all at once compounding the effect.

There used to be a standard of thickness, thicker = more bass to a degree, but these days there are little cables that can sound really complete. That said, I bought some Morrow SP4 on sale to try, and they were too lean and low on bass for me, so he sent me some thicker SP6 without raising the price and they did really well here, though still little cables. But for some, they too may be a little lean, pointing to trying a cable in your setting and to your taste as crucial. Many love the Mapleshades and they are little. There are silver plated copper, different qualities of copper, silver, different twisting geometry or not makes a difference, flat is supposed to be good with some cables, and on and on.

With everything you have, expense is clearly relative. I do think you can get good sound from a number of inexpensive cables though, but as I said in your power tube thread, from the cables I have, I could not use the Libtecs in my (perhaps hyper) revealing system.

There is a pretty extensive thread here somewhere on less expensive speaker cables, if you look around you will find it. Not sure how much it will help when listening for me is the real thing, but there are a lot of comments.

I think considering your high end difficulties, you will generally find high quality copper warmer and smoother yet still revealing if it is a good design, and silver plated copper a step into more revealing mids an high feeling, and pure silver yet more open/high oriented across the spectrum, but not necessarily lacking bass if the wire is thick enough......but this is very much a generalization. Also general, but with copper and silver plated copper, I have found that twisted geometry of a number of wires creating the total gauge tends to be less smeared, more defined, especially in the lower mids and bass, but again, a big generalization. Like this could make good silver too open and revealing....too many variables.

Good Luck,

Will
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mark58
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #2 - 04/19/15 at 14:43:08
 
Will,  I've responded to your PM.  I think given the seemingly exaggerated high end of the HR-1s tweeter and my taste for a warmer sound, I'd like to try copper or maybe silver/cooper as long as they are warmer in nature.  I have the Silver Decware DSR interconnects everywhere and don't want to replace them...this also may be in part responsible for my treble problem.

Anyway, given the cumulative brain power of the posters here, I should have a pair of acceptable speaker cables soon.  As I told Will in a PM, what I'm looking for is "good bass, sweet mids, and smooth highs".  Probably warmer than most here who seem to strive for every detail.  I've found that if that "detail" comes with an extended high end, it just isn't Musical or pleasing to me.  I understand what's musical and pleasing is different for everyone.  Mark.

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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lon
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #3 - 04/19/15 at 15:24:22
 
Mark, I've tried a number of speaker cables and the one that has most pleased me is the Mapleshade Double Helix Plus. They take a bit to bloom but when they do they just disappear and don't accentuate any frequency range. Very dynamic and detailed in a good, natural way. Surprised me, I wasn't expecting to like them that much. Don't have any Decware interconnects any longer to see how they interact with those.

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Double-Helix-Speaker-Cable-with-PLUS-Upgrade-Clo...



I'm sticking with these until I can afford to try some VooDoo Cable speaker wire, which should be some time from now. I love their cables so much I should try their wire, and Bruce Davidson is very good to work with.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #4 - 04/19/15 at 15:39:03
 
Yup, they should not matter but they do. Digital Cables floor me the most that a Chris Somovigo 75ohm Cable should matter/and it does.....the rest is history.

I've found though you need to be into the Whet deep underpinning tones and timbre's to really appreciate good Cable. Loud and dynamic is important too, but if that is all you're after with your Decware investment...stick with Lamp Cord.  ;D
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mark58
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #5 - 04/19/15 at 15:40:00
 
Thanks Lon,  I think that you like these has more meaning to me since I share your  treble affliction, to a lesser degree though.  Did you consider or try the Golden Helix?

I'm keeping a list with links to the sites for each speaker cable suggested.  I'll do a bunch of research.  I think in my second system with the speakers and tubes I use, the Zu Audio Libtec cables do fine...no complaints.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Luis
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #6 - 04/19/15 at 15:56:12
 
Any tried the ZEN STYX? Luis
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #7 - 04/19/15 at 16:06:54
 
Zen Styx are good. The only reason I'm not keeping them....I need a 10ft pair to move my ERRx around my Room. My Styx are only 5ft/pair. See my Classified ad here on the Forum if interested Luis. (I have 9ft pair of Audioquest Rocket 33 w/Silver Banana's for the ERRx movement + Kimber 3033 & 3035).

Luis, how long would you say it took you to burn in your Silver Oil Mundorf's?
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Luis
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #8 - 04/19/15 at 16:26:47
 
Thanks, I use the Zen Styx with the ERRs since day one, they are really good! just wondering about the differences with others.

I think the Silver Oil Mundorf settled down after around a month, that should be at least 200 hours
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Syd
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #9 - 04/19/15 at 16:51:50
 
This was my first proper sp/cbl, I had yards of it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rega-Speaker-Cable-Superb-/261844493301?pt=LH_DefaultD...
lol no one bid on them @£10

After that I wanted a one stop cable never to be replaced.
http://www.townshendaudio.com/isolda-speaker-cables/
good prices on e-bay

Looking at Lons cable and how they can make them so high guage. They`re not a bad price either.

I think we can blow the agnostic thing. Cables must be different from each other.
As I have no experience in every sp/cbl bar 2 in the whole history of audio I cant say yae or nae to anything, but will still fight my corner for the Isoldas.
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mark58
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #10 - 04/19/15 at 17:25:06
 
Syd,  I'm way ahead of you.  I've already read and saved the isolda link.  Sound interesting. And the Mapleshade Double Helix write up and link. Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lon
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #11 - 04/19/15 at 18:30:44
 
Mark, I didn't really consider the Golden Helix. The Double Helix was recommended to me and I decided to follow the recommendation. It really was a great addition to my system.

Luis, I used the Zen Styx for several years before moving to the Mapleshade. The Styx were the best I'd heard before that, but there was a treble edge that I just couldn't seem to ease into and the Mapleshade doesn't present that. I'm very susceptible to high frequency edginess, I know that hasn't bothered others the way it has me, it's good cable. I like the Mapleshade better however.
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kana813
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #12 - 04/19/15 at 19:00:28
 
There's a 10 foot pair of Zu Audio Missions for sale over on AC:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=r8jfdqfl9qrpd9v1udts30f812&topic=...
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mark58
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #13 - 04/19/15 at 19:03:38
 
Lon,  I just read about the Double Helix...did you get the Plus version?  Sounds like it further reduces our problem with treble.  An eight foot used pair just sold on April 12th for $115 with free shipping... new retail is $480 plus shipping.  Just missed it.  But now I'm watching.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lon
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #14 - 04/19/15 at 19:12:54
 
Yes, as I mentioned in my first post in the thread I use the Plus version.
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mark58
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #15 - 04/19/15 at 19:16:44
 
Kana,  thanks for pointing those Mission Cables out.  Will thinks my treble problem might be in part due to the Zu Audio Libtec speaker cables I'm using in my main system.  He once owned some and recalled issues.  The Mission I believe is all cooper unlike the Libtec that has silver plating...I think.  But I think I'd rather try another brand.  If someone does want these Mission cables, I'd point out that Zu Audio is selling new 10 foot pairs with the large spades for $239.  They are now manufacturing an updated, MK II version so they have discounted these from their past price of $399.  Zu makes great products...I love my Souls and have a lot of Mission Power Cords and one shielded interconnect for the ZP3.  But if I'm going to try new speaker cables, I think it'd be wise to try a different brand.  

Kana, what cables are you using?  Thanks,  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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mark58
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #16 - 04/19/15 at 22:12:16
 
Folks,  needless to say, I've been reading about speaker cables all day.  I remembered that Mike from Seattle uses and highly recommends Grover Huffman's cabling.  Reading about them...they sound good on paper. Does anyone else here use these?  Got to run.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Dave1210
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #17 - 04/19/15 at 22:41:19
 
Mark.  I agree with Will, there is no debate that cables make a difference.  Everything makes a difference.  I currently use Anti-Cables (reference interconnects and speaker cables) and they work well in my system.  I did a cable borrow from The Cable Company late last year and each of the 3 cable sets I demoed sounded significantly different in my system.  My favorite of the 3 was from a company called Audience.  The AU24 SE's bested the Anti-Cables in a few different areas (sparing you the details, which I wrote about in a different thread) and were excellent.  That said, they were significantly more expensive than the Anti-Cables and I have yet to purchase them.  They have a Conductor series which is a lot cheaper, but I have yet to demo them.  

I think it would help for you to do a cable demo.  I wish I could without reservation recommend The Cable Co as a great company to work with, but I cannot.  Unfortunately, they are the only big player that offers this service with a large selection of cables (at least that I know of).  

In my experience, most of the folks that think cables don't matter or make a difference conduct a mental experiment to convince themselves vs. actually listening.  Hearing is believing.  You have a very transparent system that will allow you to hear differences.      
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Dave1210
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #18 - 04/19/15 at 22:48:27
 
I also should have said that I think you are approaching this at the right time.  Assuming you don't plan to make big changes to the rest of your equipment.  And because everything matters (including your subjective tastes) you really need to hear these cables in your system.  I would take everyones recommendations as a baseline to discuss with The Cable Company, or whomever you decide to work with.
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kana813
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #19 - 04/20/15 at 00:44:44
 
Mark,

I'm currently using some cables I got on Agon, which the guy called "Nuclear Nordost."

Milspec cable with two 16g teflon covered conductors in a shielded jack, doubled up in a shotgun config.

I agree with Dave1210, the Audience Au24 SE is outstanding, I'm saving up for a pair.

Good luck with your search.

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Ace-Tone
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #20 - 05/14/15 at 22:39:25
 
For me it was buying within a budget based on costs of my components etc...finally decided on mapleshade 'double helix plus' after much research online and in these forums. I am glad I got 'em. But, like so many have expressed in these forums I might be in a different place (more experienced?) down the road and make a change. Ability to demo several brands and price ranges is a very good thing.
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Lon
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #21 - 05/14/15 at 23:04:17
 
Oh definitely. I have made a number of changes in my system since I bought the Double Helix Plus though, and I'm still very happy with them and not tempted to try other wire, these just work really well for me. I think what might effect a change would be if I needed longer wire, which I hope I won't in the near future.
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Lord Soth
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #22 - 05/16/15 at 09:18:52
 
Hi folks,

Just my 2cs

Most speaker cables were of the twisted braided variety until the recent Solid Core Renaissance from anti-cables which were basically the same stuff used as clothes hangers!

Well, these clothes hangers sounded better than $20 grand "upscale" cables.....

thus began the religion of solid core cables....

With all that preamble, I heartily recommend clear day double shotgun silver speaker cables. They are solid core pure silver cables with excellent transparency. There is no loss of sonics at the low or top end.
They are able to convey midrange warmth when required.

In general, copper cables are warm sounding whilst silver cables are bright.
However, the clearday cables are the exception to this general rule.
They only cost $450 ish with free shipping.
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Lon
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #23 - 05/16/15 at 12:48:46
 
How recent are those Anti-Cable cables? I have TARA Labs solid core cables from the early 'neneties that were a big thing thenand influential in cable design from other labels. Now I use sold sire from Mapleshade, very happily.
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #24 - 05/16/15 at 13:27:30
 
I was a disbeliever of the whole cable-interconnect thing until I sprang for some Mapleshade stuff a few years ago. I'm not 100% sure that the sound is better, but it sure is different!
The solid core cables and ribbon interconnects seem to make things sparkle and shimmer.
I've even went as far as using the Mapleshade USB cable between my computer and DAC. It makes the zeros and ones sound different. Pure friggin' magic.
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #25 - 05/16/15 at 23:22:06
 
I had a few different cables in my systeme with the Omega RS7 drivers including Clear Day Double Shotguns Silver, Zen Styx Silver over Copper and El Cheapo Copper and ZenWave Audio OCC copper.

I wrote a post in another thread here on the forums, but it's relative to this thread so I'll repost the relevant information but here is a link to that thread where a lot of guys really pitched in with great info and opinions here:

Sorry this is so long BTW ... it was an exercise on my thoughts as I give relevance to how and why I noticed how much of a difference that they actually do make in one's system.

___________________________________________________

When I first purchased my Omega Speakers, Louis (the owner), was in the middle of designing 3 different drivers for his RS7 line.  

(a) RS7 (regular drivers from 44 - 20kHz),
(b) RS7V (vintage drivers from 44 - 15kHz),
(c) RS7A (alnico drivers from 44 - 18kHz).

At the time of purchase Louis only had the Vintage drivers ready, so he sent those to me and told me to let him know if I liked them.  At the time I started looking for cables I had a pair of 14g OFC copper cables that I picked up for like $20 and they were decent enough, but I always felt there was something missing at the top end of the RS7V speakers, so I thought I needed cable that wasn't as warm as copper and decided to try a few silver cables.  I tried the Clear Days and a couple of others listed above, but they did not make enough of a noticeable difference (for the money).  Then LR sent me some Zen Styx like cables and they really gave a little shimmer on the top end.  They were by the far the most effective at adding a little something to the top end that I felt was missing using the RS7V drivers and I was mostly using this in a near field listening situation.

After living with the Vintage drivers for a while and moving to a new place where I'm further away from the near field position than I was before ... I came to the conclusion that despite the great midrange, the RS7V drivers were just too rolled off in the highs for my tastes.  Even though I'm almost 49 and I can't hear too much above that these days, I still felt as if something was missing and things such as cymbals did not decay as much as I would have liked and sounded a tad muffled, it was almost as if the drummers were in the back alley of the recording studio (not in the same room).  So I contacted Louis and told him, he said the Vintage drivers are tuned that way for a specific sort of sound and being the great guy he is, Louis sent me a pair of the RS7 regular drivers which have an extended upper range in comparison (free of charge).

So I swapped the new Regular drivers in and sent the old ones back to Louis and tried not to listen too critically until I got a hundred hours or so on them.  But I noticed right away that something was not sounding right and every cymbal tap (no matter if it was a hi-hat, ride and even gongs and cowbells) all I heard was "tisk, tisk, tisk".  Well I gave them some time, but the "tisk" sound never went away and it was getting to me so badly that it's all I could hear and focus on when listening to music so it was basically ruining my musical enjoyment.  

I was very bummed out and thought that I actually made a turn for the worse by getting the new drivers and by their extended range were now showing other weaknesses/problems within my setup.  So I went through a process of elimination ... first I tried the source and it did not make a difference, then with and without the preamp and that made no difference either.  So then I thought screw it, maybe it is just a dirty little secret that single driver owners never talk about and I was getting some type of Doppler effect, so I'm going to buy a new set of speakers.  The problem with that is with the Taboo I'm limited to and need very efficient speakers and they can get expensive, so I spent a month or so reading up on efficient speakers and what else was out there, but came to the conclusion that I could not afford another pair of speakers and I was just going to have to tough it out.

It was at that point I remembered reading a post by Dave (from Dave's Cables which is one of the original venders I was looking into in the first place) on the Audio Circle forums that certain silver over copper cables can introduce a tizziness to speakers that was especially apparent in efficient single drivers that don't use crossovers.  At the time I blew it off because (1) the Vintage drivers were too rolled off to notice any tizziness, and (2) Dave sells speaker cables and thought that perhaps he was just looking to get me interested in his cables a little more .  BUT as a last ditch effort I went to my garage and got out my original OFC $20 copper cables, swapped then back in and voilà ... all tizziness = gone!

It was at that point I came to my first conclusion that speakers cables may be more system/speaker dependent than I thought.  My second conclusion was that even though the old cables fixed the tizziness problem, things sounded dull and did not have the liveliness of the Zen Styx style cables.  So I contacted Dave (Dave's Cables which is now ZenWave Audio) and thanked him for posting that as I didn't even think it could have been the cables, we exchanged a few emails and he said he would send me out a couple of his cables to see if I liked any of them better than what I was currently using and if I did he would make me a pair and if not no worries just send them back at his expense, so I couldn't refuse and a couple days later I got a box of his goodies.

He sent me a pair of his SL version of UP-OCC speaker cables in 20g and 17g sizes.  The 20g is a side by side run and the 17g has a braided geometry (he also sent me a couple different pairs of his interconnects to try out ~ the ZenWave DD which uses Dueland Silver and ZenWave D3 which is a UPOCC Silver and Gold alloy).  Back to the speaker cables ... they actually look like and are about as thin as shoestrings ... in fact if you swapped them into a pair of Chuck Taylors I don't think anybody would be the wiser .  When I first got them I was sort of expecting a hefty cable similar to the Zen Styx and/or my OCF 14g copper cables, but they are pretty light and flexible.



Well I've never listened so intently to speaker cables before. Literally I've been swapping the 2 speaker cables back and forth and even had my lady and my 15 year old boy both sit down with me at separate occasions for a good intensive listening session and they both gave me "the same" feedback. I tried not to get involved with their decisions and let them both know that there is no right or wrong with the cables and to just let me know which ones they liked better and why. What was unexpected is that we all came to the same conclusions on sound and preference.

We listened to 3 songs on each cable ~

(1) Ani DeFranco - 32 Flavors. I chose this song as it has great sort of breathy female vocals and there is a lot of percussion involved (especially in the beginning).

(2) Miles Davis - Saeta (from Sketches of Spain). I chose this songs as the percussion starts off very delicate and clicky (if that's even a term) and then builds, and the sound stage moves from left to right subtly ... one minute you're hearing percussions on one side and then horns move to the right ... really just a mesmerizing track.

(3) Neil Young - Cortez The Killer. This has to be one of THE most classic rock songs of all time, the guitar work is outstanding (no doubt as its one of Rolling Stones greatest guitar solos of all time), but the cymbal work on this track is especially outstanding in the recording as well. I can't think of another song in my library that matches the awesome recording of the cymbals and percussion on that track.

All tracks were 192/24 hi-res and used with a McIntosh C220 preamp, Decware Taboo MK II amp, Rega DAC, Omega RS7 Loudspeakers and an Asus VivoPC with Windows 8.1 and JRiver MC 19 (line leveled and volume was set the same throughout the entire listening duration).  The speaker cables used were Dave's SL UPOCC Copper in 17 and 20 gauges and compared to my 14 gauge Oxygen Free Copper cables.  All with bare terminations which is how I prefer them (with tinned/silver soldered ends to keep them from fraying).

I don't know a lot of audio terms, so I'll just try to explain the differences and what I heard with each one.

I first tried the 20g side by side as they are the least expensive and (being the cheap bastard that I am) if I could get away with a cheaper version that didn't make that huge of a difference compared to the more expensive version then that's one that I'm going to go for.

First off, both the 20 and 17 gauge speaker cables are fast compared to the Oxygen Free Copper cables I had before. And both cables are good at the retrieval of information. But to be 100% honest, the thing was that even though the 20g were better than the OFC copper cheapy cables I had in there, I could not justify the price difference.  After first demoing the 20g I again thought that I just don't have the golden ears that Lon, Stone, Will and a lot of you other guys seem to have.

But that is where the road ends. After swapping in the braided 17 gauge and began listening, I was taken aback immediately! First off, we all thought that the percussion instruments sounded live, as if they were almost in front of us. The 20 gauges were good at this as well, but they sounded as if the drummer was further in the background in comparison.

The 17's however sounded as if the drummer was literally in front of us. Things that were in the background moved forward as if on the same stage or plane as the other players. I've never heard this happen on another cable and seriously ... I never thought that speaker cables would have this dramatic of an effect on my system, but with the 17s there has been a retrieval of information and a placement of the musicians up front that I was not expecting to happen. To say that this made a difference in my musical enjoyment is an understatement as I couldn't stop listening to music going way into the early AM.

OK, so here's my comparison of Dave's 17ga vs 20ga after a couple weeks of listening. The 20 gauge seems faster and the bass seemed a tad more taught and focused, they were better than the cheap 14g OFC cables I had in there and if I never heard the 17g braided cables I would have easily chosen them over the 14g OFC. However the 17's retrieved WAY more info, the decay of instruments (especially cymbals) was off the charts and spooky real, the bass (while not as taught as the 20g) was fuller and the tones overall much richer, and the 17g preserves fine detail in note decay and reverb trails better than anything I've heard to this point. IMO, the 20 gauges are really good, but the 17's are probably the most significant upgrade to my system that I have heard to this date.

It's at this point I began to say to myself ... Hmmm now I know what Lon and you other guys with the Golden Ears have been talking about all this time!

Sorry for the long winded exercise in getting my thoughts together about these cables, but just wanted to say if you're looking for a good set of cables at a reasonable price, the 17g braided is only $219 plus shipping (if you go with bare terminals like myself, however adding spades or plugs are extra) definitely put the 17g and 20g on your list to demo.

As an aside note, by having these speaker cables in my system I am able to hear and notate other discernable tweaks within my setup such as interconnects, etc.  Who would have thunk it?

Edit: I almost forgot to say that the RS7 Regular Drivers have hit a sweet spot for me as well, IMO they are better than the Vintage drivers by a fair margin and have the other nuances that I was looking for as far as an extended upper range while still preserving the excellent midrange, speed and detail that single drivers are known for.  I won't be getting rid of these any time soon ... well unless I trade up into one of his newer Outlaw designs with his top of the line Alnico Hemp Cones.
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Lon
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #26 - 05/17/15 at 00:30:49
 
Did you notice that a ten foot pair of 17 gauge now costs 2000 dollars!?  :o
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beowulf
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #27 - 05/17/15 at 00:55:44
 
Hi Lon, are you talking about the ZenWave ... if so, what link are you referring to?

I'm showing that the SL version that I'm using costs $350 for a 10' pair (without terminations).

He has more exotic stuff like the SMSG which is OCC silver/gold alloy are "very" expensive though though costing around $2995 for a 10' pair.

Edit: I think the SMS is what you were looking into which is pure OCC silver ... those are way out of my budget! Shocked
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #28 - 05/17/15 at 00:59:33
 
Okay I see that what I saw at that price was the SMS speaker cable.

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/speaker-cable-1-3/

If it's Ohno continuous cast copper wouldn't surprise me, that stuff is very expensive. I love it though (the interconnects I love use this copper).
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beowulf
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #29 - 05/17/15 at 01:02:37
 
Yes ...

SL = OCC Copper
SMS = OCC Silver
SMSG = OCC Silver and OCC Gold
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Re: Speaker Wire Agnostic wants to believe/learn...
Reply #30 - 05/17/15 at 01:05:06
 
Yes, OCC copper and silver. . . that's great stuff, my VooDoo Cable interconnects have them, and the top of the line ones just seem to disappear.
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