Forums - Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes

ProggRob

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CDApS Member

Posts: 239

Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
04/17/15 at 17:00:00

Hello All-

I will be visiting a friend's house on Saturday night who is the proud owner of a Rachael. I bought him some 6N2P input tubes to try in his amp, but wanted to take a quick poll of the user forum to see who has tried this and what the impressions were vs. stock 6N1P?

He has a VPI Scout Jr. turntable with Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, Grover Huffman EX phono and ICs, Tekton M-Lore speakers and BJC speaker cables.

I will also be bringing over my PI Audio UberBUSS for him (he has no conditioning to speak of), and my Triode Wire Labs American SC to swap out vs. the BJC cables.

Rob

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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Denefrips Terminator -> Black Cat Setsuna XLR -> LTA Ultralinear Integrated -> Black Cat Setsuna SC -> Betsy Alnicos
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Ace-Tone

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Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #1 - 04/17/15 at 18:43:26

hey Prob, I have been following the other forum ...member gatherings with much interest and envy. I have read where others have used the 6n2p in place of the 6n1p in the SuperZen CKC amps with success. So, might not be a bad experiment with the Rachel. Enjoy the listen / tweaks / cable / room treatment experiments. Sounds like it's been an eye opener for all involved. Nice!!

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ProggRob Seasoned Member CDApS Member Posts: 239	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #2 - 04/17/15 at 22:44:39 Thanks Acetone, I didn't know the 6N2P could work in the Zen. I might have to pick one up and try it. I haven't tube rolled much in my amp. Tubes are expensive and a gamble, but by most accounts can really pay off. I'll get there.
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Ace-Tone Seasoned Member 8+ years with Decware gear and Loving it!!! Posts: 775	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #3 - 04/17/15 at 22:58:21 7DJ8 tubes & 6n23p work well in the input slot as well in place of 6n1p. They can be had relatively cheap...$5 to $25 depending on maker.
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Luis New Member Posts: 0	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #4 - 04/17/15 at 23:27:25 I am trying now a couple of 6n23p Voskhod (Kaluga factory) rocket logo in my SE34I.2 and I like them a lot! Luis
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will

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Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #5 - 04/18/15 at 06:29:45

Rob,

I used 6N2P in my SE34I.2 and was reminded when I auditioned a Rachael, the 6N2P takes a while to show its stuff. It will push the amp a little harder and louder if I recall, but it also clips at a lower level with the volume pot. For me, first impressions were not great sound-wise> I think I figured out they could be good when I broke a 6N1P and all I had was the 62NP pair. With burnin, I ended up liking it quite a bit, but I don't recall its specific characteristics beyond bigger and bolder.

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Syd

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Posts: 1534

Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #6 - 04/18/15 at 12:26:11

I haven`t tried many tubes in the Rachaels, they came without stock tubes and I had BB 6dj8`s and Philips 6dj8`s for them which I used for over a year so I took that as stock and voiced the other amps signal tubes around it.
Having tried and been impressed by the 6n1p-E x3 mica, gold grids in the CSP2+ I bought another 4 for the Rachaels. Their price is good compared to other NOS. They are disc getters as well, the Russian tubes I have are all discs so there is the romantic vibe of discs playing a part.
Guess it`s all about building up a small stock slowly.

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Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s, Arcam CD33, Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains substation, M & K subwoofer, Belden 8402 interconnects.

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hdrider

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Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #7 - 04/18/15 at 15:58:29

I echo Will's experience with my Rachael. I am using the 6N1P's now that I got from Steve with my amp. I tried the 6N2P's again last weekend while I was breaking in my new speakers and had the same impression that I originally had, they seem to overload sooner and sound harsh. So far in my system the 6N1P seems to be the winner. BUT, now that I have speakers that allow me to hear every change, some tube rolling is going to be happening soon. Let us know the results of your trials. Happy listening, Chris.

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CSP3, Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, Sony ES Bluray, Schitt Bitfrost DAC,Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Hana SL Low Output Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Gamma Electrostatic phones.

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ProggRob

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CDApS Member

Posts: 239

Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #8 - 04/19/15 at 01:07:44

Hey thanks for the feedback everyone. I suppose we shouldn't expect too much tonight out of the 6N2P's since they have very few hours on them. Bigger and bolder makes sense with the additional gain.

On my Zen, I put in a Matsushita National 7DJ8 and really like what I hear. They seem to take me much further into the mix a bring out fine detail across the spectrum. I listened to some Opeth songs that I've listened to hundreds of times and heard them like never before. Bass may have taken a step back vs. 6N1P, but otherwise very very good. On some tracks, vocals come forward in a pleasing way but on the flip side can seem almost too much with others. I'll listen to it several more days to decide.

Keep the suggestions coming!

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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Denefrips Terminator -> Black Cat Setsuna XLR -> LTA Ultralinear Integrated -> Black Cat Setsuna SC -> Betsy Alnicos
Bass: 4x Hawthorne Augies w/ 2 Rythmik amps
Power: TWL 7+ and Digital, UberBUSS, Furutech Outl

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Rivieraranch Seasoned Member Posts: 2126	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #9 - 04/19/15 at 01:10:20 The 6N2P-EV can sound harsh if you crank it up too much. I tried one in my Super Zen and it gave a livelier more forward presentation overall. I grew tired of it, pulled it out and replaced it with the 6N1P-EV, which was instantly warmer and more neutral.
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ProggRob Seasoned Member CDApS Member Posts: 239	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #10 - 04/19/15 at 01:13:39 I am definitely seeing a trend here. Perhaps in the right system they could work!
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will

Seasoned Member

Posts: 2919

Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #11 - 04/19/15 at 05:46:32

Quote:

I am definitely seeing a trend here. Perhaps in the right system they could work!

Quote:

On my Zen, I put in a Matsushita National 7DJ8 and really like what I hear. They seem to take me much further into the mix a bring out fine detail across the spectrum. I listened to some Opeth songs that I've listened to hundreds of times and heard them like never before. Bass may have taken a step back vs. 6N1P, but otherwise very very good. On some tracks, vocals come forward in a pleasing way but on the flip side can seem almost too much with others. I'll listen to it several more days to decide.

Sounds like a good description of the 7Dj8. I have had the same feeling depending on tuning. If the detail and openness is close to the edge, a 7DJ8/PCC88 can be too much at times. But, though they all seem to do something like what you describe, they vary in how they do this...some more bass, some more open, bigger, wetter, drier, extended...the usual variations with inputs depending on brand and vintage.

Remember tubes too take time to come out. Especially some Russian inputs can be pretty rigid for quite a while before opening up. I find even the faster burnin input tubes can take 50 or more hours to open up.

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SE84CKCS Ex Member	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #12 - 04/20/15 at 01:16:21 Interesting. When exchanging emails w/ Steve, I asked him about swapping in a 6N2P, and he said it wouldn't work.
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ProggRob Seasoned Member CDApS Member Posts: 239	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #13 - 04/20/15 at 17:31:26 SE84CKCS: yeah it doesn't mention it on the website either for the Zen, but I guess there's some first hand experience with others. PS - I never got around to hearing these on Saturday. We got wrapped up in cable swapping, something I just started a new thread on.
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Palomino Seasoned Member Posts: 2474	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #14 - 04/20/15 at 22:58:51 Rob, My experience was similar to what Will notes in Response #6. I didn't like them and gave them to another Rachael owner at Zenfest. I do have some 7DJ8s still if you/your friend are interested. CDApS needs some vinyl influence. Recruit and you'll win a toaster.
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ProggRob Seasoned Member CDApS Member Posts: 239	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #15 - 04/21/15 at 01:12:46 Palomino, I'd like to try your 7DJ8 tubes that you've got on hand. I'm really digging this Matsushita National but would like to explore more. My buddy can try the matched pairs that I don't keep ;D Rob PS make it a finished pair of your diffusers and I'll work tirelessly to recruit!
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riknbkr330

Verified Member

Posts: 31

Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #16 - 04/21/15 at 02:00:19

Hi Guys...new here...first post and all. I'd like to contribute to this post as I'm running 6N2Ps with my Rachael. They really help out with the input sensitivity of my phono preamp, Musical Surroundings Phonomena II and the Dynavector 20X2L cart combo.

The sound is pretty good, but was harsh at first. They're still burning in as I got the amp probably a little over a month ago. The 6N1Ps do sound nice as well, and I picked up a set of NOS Philips 6922 to roll with . They do sound really nice with my digital sources.

Overall I'm really happy with the amp and sound I'm getting. This the most musical setup I've ever had and it really bums me out I didn't buy into this many, many years ago.

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Main System:
Decware Rachael; Omega Monitor 7; Omega deep8 sub; Oppo BD-105>Zbit; Rega P5; Dynavector 20X2L;Parks Budgie SUT; Decware ZP3.
Second System: Creek Classic 5350SE; Rega RS1; Dual 1264; Musical Surroundings Phonomena II

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Lonely Raven Seasoned Member Jack of all Trades, Master of None Posts: 3567	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #17 - 04/21/15 at 03:40:05 Welcome! And awesome! I love the sound of the Rachel. Palomino has two of them, and they catch me off guard with how good they sound.
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ProggRob

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CDApS Member

Posts: 239

Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #18 - 04/21/15 at 17:22:50

Welcome riknbkr!

When you say "helped with input sensitivity of phono preamp", are you actually referring to the lack of voltage output from your phono? Trying to determine how the 6N2P helps with input sensitivity of the phono but I may be misunderstanding. I ask because my friend has about 1.5v out from his phono stage but the Rachael needs about 2.5 for full output and you may have a similar situation.

Rob

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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Denefrips Terminator -> Black Cat Setsuna XLR -> LTA Ultralinear Integrated -> Black Cat Setsuna SC -> Betsy Alnicos
Bass: 4x Hawthorne Augies w/ 2 Rythmik amps
Power: TWL 7+ and Digital, UberBUSS, Furutech Outl

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Palomino Seasoned Member Posts: 2474	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #19 - 04/21/15 at 17:56:12 I think they output more than the 6N1P's. They guy I gave my 6n2ps to used them for the same reason. He ran without a pre, but like the little goose from the 2p's with his TT based system despite the earlier clipping. He later bought a pre.
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riknbkr330

Verified Member

Posts: 31

Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes
Reply #20 - 04/30/15 at 14:41:14

Yes, the 6N2P increases the gain and input sensitivity of the amp helping the phono stage gain. The better solution is getting an SUT between the cart and phono stage, and that's probably my next purchase.

Overall though everything sounds great and I'm very satisfied. Always anticipate listening sessions, so that's a good thing :)

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Main System:
Decware Rachael; Omega Monitor 7; Omega deep8 sub; Oppo BD-105>Zbit; Rega P5; Dynavector 20X2L;Parks Budgie SUT; Decware ZP3.
Second System: Creek Classic 5350SE; Rega RS1; Dual 1264; Musical Surroundings Phonomena II

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bvictor Verified Member Posts: 46	Re: Rachael - 6N1P vs. 6N2P Input Tubes Reply #21 - 04/30/15 at 22:54:03 I run 6N2P-EVs in both my Rachel and my SE34I.2+. LOVE them. Have never returned to the 6N1Ps Beautiful, clear gutsy tubes.
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