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Issue WIth My Taboo 3? (Read 6622 times)
ihmeyers
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Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
04/10/15 at 22:32:24
 
I purchased my Taboo 3 from a respected Head-Fi'er about 2 years ago.  I used it for about 2 months without a preamp to drive a pair of LCD2's but there never seemed to be enough gain for me so I bought a CSP2+.

Now that the CSP2+ is out of my system I am trying to drive my phones straight from my DAC to my Taboo.  My Dac outputs 2.6v from it's SE outputs which should be more than enough for the 'phones.  Steve lists the Taboo output into 50ohm phones at 1700mw which should be fine for the LCD2s.  However on a number of CDs I can't raise the volume above what I would call a mid level (barely audible not wearing the phones from the back side of the Audeze open back drivers).

I have swapped out all the tubes and my interconnects as well.  When measuring the voltage using a test tone (Sheffield Audio Track 5, a well know setup CD) I get .765v from both channels.  With the CSP in-line and both at max I would get 4v or more.  Does it sound like there is something wrong with the Taboo?

Thanks!

Ian


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LDMS Mini w/ LPS, Lampizator GA TRP
Merrill Element 116 Mono Blocks (main system),Wall Audio M-50 SET Mono Blocks
Townshend Allegri Reference Passive Preamp / Totaldac D1 Driver

Hansen Audio The Prince Speakers (main system) Pair of REL G1 MKII
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mark58
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Posts: 5647
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #1 - 04/10/15 at 22:59:15
 
I bought a Taboo MK III about the summer of 2013, new from Decware.  At some point I added a CSP3 but haven't used it with anything other than my laptop lately. The CSP3 lives with the Torii.  Oddly your post reminded me that The Taboo had difficulty with Omega 93 dB sensitivity, 8 ohm speakers. I could not drive them to adequate volumes even though my Zen Signature Monoblocks at 2.3 WPC has more than adequate volume with headroom to spare.  I have never gotten a satisfactory explanation why this is.

I don't remember having any problem with volume with or without the CSP3 while listening with my Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones...ZP3 and Jolida 100 CD player (Line Output Voltage: > 2V, 47 Kohms).  What I'll do for you is hook up the Jolida 100 I have in the den to the Taboo only and listen with my Audeze Cans.  I'll come back and comment after a while.  Mark.

PS...OK, I have a balanced cable and use no lucid modes.  I listened to a little Joni Mitchell's "Court and Spark" and my listening level was 3 or 4 clicks from max.  Then I listened to Little Feat's "Waiting For Columbus"...track 12, "Spanish Moon" and found 5 clicks from max to be to my liking.  So you probably don't have a malfunctioning Taboo MK III but rather it's something to do with the Taboo design itself.  I love the Taboo but something isn't right...a 4.6 WPC Amp should be able to drive a speaker with 93 dB sensitivity to more than enough volume.  Also,  I use the stock tubes except for a 50's RCA 5u4G rectifier.  Cables are Decware DSR and power cord is stock from Decware.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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ihmeyers
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Posts: 45
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #2 - 04/10/15 at 23:01:50
 
Thanks very much Mark.   Smiley I am pretty sure there isn't anything wrong with the Taboo and that is just the way it is.  I can't think of anything internal that would cause this, especially equally in both channels where the voltage I measure is almost identical (.765 vs .761).
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LDMS Mini w/ LPS, Lampizator GA TRP
Merrill Element 116 Mono Blocks (main system),Wall Audio M-50 SET Mono Blocks
Townshend Allegri Reference Passive Preamp / Totaldac D1 Driver

Hansen Audio The Prince Speakers (main system) Pair of REL G1 MKII
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ihmeyers
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Posts: 45
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #3 - 04/10/15 at 23:35:45
 
Mark,

I'm sorry I didn't follow your response.  You're saying that the listening level when running the Jolida straight into the Taboo is 4 or 5 (with the LCD2s) from max?  Mine is fully maxed out or maybe 1 click away from max.  Wouldn't that mean that mine is performing differently from yours?

The reason I don't think it's the Taboo is I bought it through Decware and it has always been this way.  A Head-Fi'er sold it to me while it was still on Steve's bench and they shipped it straight to me.  I have had this volume issue from day one which is why I bought the CSP.  I liked how clean it was just using the Taboo but just not enough gain.
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LDMS Mini w/ LPS, Lampizator GA TRP
Merrill Element 116 Mono Blocks (main system),Wall Audio M-50 SET Mono Blocks
Townshend Allegri Reference Passive Preamp / Totaldac D1 Driver

Hansen Audio The Prince Speakers (main system) Pair of REL G1 MKII
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mark58
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Posts: 5647
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #4 - 04/10/15 at 23:50:12
 
I think you like your playback louder than I do.  What I was pointing out is that I had the attenuator at 15 of 20 clicks for Little Feat...probably a loud CD and 17 clicks out of 20 for Joni Mitchell...a quieter CD.  I think I bought the CSP3 because everyone on headfi was saying it added "weight and body" that was worth the price. Of course when I got the Torii MK IV the taboo was displaced. I planned on using the Taboo in the den to drive speakers...No go with the Omegas but it did ok with Zu Audio Souls at 99 dB and 8 ohms.  Then I decided to buy a pair of 2008 vintage Zen Signature Monoblocks that drove the Omegas without a problem with no preamp with their 2.3 WPC.

If you find out why the Taboo  MK III seems to lack the power we would expect from 4.6 WPC, let me know.  Mark.

PS...when I use The Taboo MK III and Audeze headphones with my laptop playing Spotify I usually have the volume at max.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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ihmeyers
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Posts: 45
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #5 - 04/10/15 at 23:53:47
 
Thanks very much Mark, really appreciate it.   Grin

So in your estimation that's just the way it is without a preamp.  I kind of feared that.   I really like the Taboo and the CSP2+ is super clean but for some reason together in my system it just didn't do it for me.

That's why I asked about running balanced into the Taboo.  The output of my DAC is about 8db higher from it's balanced outputs.

Ian
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LDMS Mini w/ LPS, Lampizator GA TRP
Merrill Element 116 Mono Blocks (main system),Wall Audio M-50 SET Mono Blocks
Townshend Allegri Reference Passive Preamp / Totaldac D1 Driver

Hansen Audio The Prince Speakers (main system) Pair of REL G1 MKII
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mark58
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Posts: 5647
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #6 - 04/10/15 at 23:59:41
 
That's correct.  That's just the way it is.  To get the gain you want you'll need a CSP...why did you get rid of yours?  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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ihmeyers
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Posts: 45
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #7 - 04/11/15 at 00:06:14
 
I don't know why I got rid of it to be honest.  I just felt I wanted to try something different with the Taboo, I just never loved the two of them together.  The dynamics were great but I thought it wasn't quite as transparent as I would have liked.  For the price it's a terrific preamp.  I am looking at $2k+ preamps now to pair with the Taboo.  I am curious how that will work out.

What I really wanted is to run balanced because I think that would have given me enough juice to drive the LCDs with the Taboo.  I have typically run my systems in the past without a preamp because it's cleaner.
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LDMS Mini w/ LPS, Lampizator GA TRP
Merrill Element 116 Mono Blocks (main system),Wall Audio M-50 SET Mono Blocks
Townshend Allegri Reference Passive Preamp / Totaldac D1 Driver

Hansen Audio The Prince Speakers (main system) Pair of REL G1 MKII
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mark58
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Posts: 5647
Re: Issue WIth My Taboo 3?
Reply #8 - 04/11/15 at 00:26:53
 
My guess is with a CSP3 with Bees Wax Caps like mine and a little tube rolling you could get what you want. You probably can get more feedback on this at Headfi's "Taboo Appreciation Thread".  Most here listen to only speakers...or at least that's all they talk about.  I hadn't used my Taboo at all for 6 months or more until this month when I moved it to the Den and tried it with spotify through my Laptop.  I have been amazed how good it sounds both with the Audeze headphones and the Zu Audio Souls...the Omegas aren't loud enough.  

Maybe Steve's new preamp will be just the ticket.  I'd hold out until we hear more details.  He'll probably have a first adopter discount as he usually does.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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