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Still having issues with AC Power (Read 45965 times)
busterfree
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #50 - 03/14/15 at 20:06:50
 
I own a couple of PS Audio power plants (P500 and a P5). I recently came across a similar product for about $1500. I have never tried it, but it may be worth considering.

http://www.brickwall.com/products/svr-pro-series-precision-ac-voltage-regulator
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4krow
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #51 - 03/14/15 at 22:13:51
 
I have also owned Brickwall products and the quality is great. I still use a Brickwall device for my computer, but is a surge protector and filter.
 The BPT product that I own is really an excellent idea. This isolation transformer has 5 separate secondary windings, as I mentioned before. I really can't say that it has a signature sound to it, but rather lowers the noise floor because of the separate secondaries and the balanced power output. I am not presently using it for Audio, but rather for AV. Since the AV and the Audio systems feed from the same dedicated line, I felt that it would best used this way.
As far as the P300, P500, and PPP, I liked the performance that they offered by being able to switch up the power signal to what works best with your system. I think that they might have a different effect with any given system, so it is hard for me to compare them. What I mean is that with power conditioner, I was using different stereo components. The effort was to find what system would be best for my taste. I have ended up with a few Decware components, after trying different brands and types of equipment. I will say that in general, I would not go without one of these re-generators in my system. Come to think of it, I did use the BPT product by itself, but I still like the idea of being able to tweek the power when I feel like it.
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will
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #52 - 03/15/15 at 03:05:25
 
Thanks guys. I agree 4krow, the adjustments of the PSA regenerators are really nice tools. I have had no luck gaining understanding about the phase tuning though (just told I probably don't need it and don't mess with it). So I decided to play around with it today. Maybe whatever it does will be useful to my power and sound here?!? Pretty interesting on first perusal.
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #53 - 03/16/15 at 13:18:43
 
PS Audio confirmed a P3 would be plenty for my current system and according to Paul it could well be plugged to my IS Tx, second in line and before my system components, complementing what the IS Tx is already achieving.

Paul also indicated we should listen to the P3 in the above configuration and compare it with the P3 by itself (no IS Tx) so we can see which way is better sounding.

Now, I just need to get me a P3 at a reasonable enough price that I can afford ... I don't think any other regeneration plant would satisfy my needs in the long term, so I'll be patient for that P3 opportunity.

In the meantime, I had to work Saturday and no electrician would come on Sunday, so I'm back a week in my power issue analysis.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #54 - 03/16/15 at 14:20:26
 
I'm glad you have a game plan. It sounds like it should all work out with a little time and money. And you'll be in a better place at the end me thinks.

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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #55 - 03/16/15 at 20:22:27
 
Thanks for the good wishes, LR. The way AC power is behaving lately, I'm not enjoying my gear anymore. Sunday morning I woke up to a complete black-out, which lasted several hours. I did not listen to my system when power finally came back , as I was afraid of unstable power supply.

I hope the power company gets its act together soon, as it was not at all like this before. I also hope the regeneration plant will solve at least the bulk of these issues. I'm having my fingers crossed.
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will
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #56 - 03/16/15 at 20:40:56
 
Not even wanting to turn your system on....Ouch. I feel for you.

It sounds crazy bad. Did you ask Paul about the tolerances of the P3? Clearly it will need enough power coming in, but how far out (plus and minus), including swings in  voltage, amperage and THD can it tolerate. The way you have described it, it seems possible your power company might push the limits. But then, if it is crazy enough to cause the P3 to shut down.....I hope they it together soon too.

Good Luck!
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Syd
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #57 - 03/16/15 at 21:14:41
 
You know what sods law says. Sods law says you get the P3/regenerator and the power company finishes its work resulting in better power than you`ve ever had. Still, the P3 will be a cornerstone in the system. My mains sub gives me peace of mind, literally, by delivering clean power. The noise floor went woomph right down. My mains is probably ok but you dont realise whats on it till you lose it.
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #58 - 03/16/15 at 22:03:21
 
Thanks, yes I think this ought to be temporary ... I hope. It can't be sustainable the way it is, but then, it may take a while, I don't have a clue.

If the P3 were to remain on (i.e., not shutting off itself due to lousy incoming power), it will be doing its best, so I'm convinced the addition of the device is necessary at this point anyway, whether the power company (in which I have very little faith) returns to 'normality' or not. Otherwise, I would not be able to listen as I used to, or may be forced to go into the wee hours on good power days, which may not be feasible due to work schedule.

We'll see.
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #59 - 03/17/15 at 13:19:04
 
Got further word from PS Audio, answering additional questions on my part. The conclusion I've arrived at, could be thus summarized:

The PS Audio P3 does not achieve the de-coupling from the mains effect the IS Tx does. The IS Tx does not yield perfect sinewave AC either. Therefore, although the PS Audio P3 also cleans the power through re-generation, if both could co-exist, this would be the best of both worlds. Besides, the IS Tx would be protecting the expensive PS Audio P3 from AC accidents/disturbances.

With this in mind, I would need to assess if the combination of IS Tx feeding the PS Audio P3, or else, the PS Audio P3 by itself, would sound and behave dynamically best. Of course, the former scenario would be ideal. The only caveat is the power ceiling would lower from 750 watts to 500 watts, as the IS Tx would be the weakest power rated device in the chain.

In my system, 500 watts are more than enough, and if a larger amp comes in the future, it would also be enough, since I would never acquire a larger than 15-25 watts amp anyway.

Now, I just need to get my hands on a PS Audio P3 bargain!
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Lon
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #60 - 03/17/15 at 13:28:22
 
I hope you have better luck with this combo than I did. When I received my Power Plant Premier it revealed to me that the IT was adding noise to the system, and the Power Plant Premier was only able to reduce the THD to .09, but when I removed the IT and plugged the Premier into the wall the THD was lowered to .04. So the Tripplite stayed out. I had bad luck with the Tripplites, noise from the git go that I didn't quite identify til Radcha noted the problem with his.

I ended up buying an outlet that offered me surge protection (an Ethernet brand which was really the same as the PS Audio Soloist, manufactured by the same supplier).
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #61 - 03/17/15 at 13:52:08
 
I understand. So far, no noises coming from my IS Tx, but I may not know really until I check both configurations. We'll see.
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Lon
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #62 - 03/17/15 at 13:54:49
 
Right, and I am sure you realize I was not talking about mechanical noise but hash or grain from noise that showed up as an edginess in the sound. I kept tube rolling etc. trying to alleviate that and just couldn't. Sigh.
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #63 - 03/17/15 at 14:00:04
 
I see, but when my AC power was performing decently I did not had any graininess or edginess in the sound, quite the contrary. After tube-rolling to optimize my setup, which at the time had a darker/warmer sound than what I appreciated, I got openness and detail.

Partly through DAC replacement with the Sabre chip, partly by replacing output and preamp tubes, I was able to balance the sound to my tastes. The new Tekton Lore 2.0's have also improved the level of low volume details and took off some edginess when using the powerful (beamy) Brimar 12AT7 preamp tubes.

BTW, I just received further answers from PS Audio, this time from the technical department (the technician was out of the office until now, so customer service, citing Paul, had been replying so far).

According to the technician (today):

My apologies for the delay as I was out of the office.  Yes the P3 can be plugged into a isolation transformer and you should notice no performance difference from the P3.

And from your specs it looks like the P3 should be sufficient to power your pieces.


I think this eliminates any doubts about my plans. Theoretically at least, the P3 should perform the same whether it is connected to the IS Tx or not, which would add the advantage of de-coupling the mains that I want to retain. Of course, this assumes the IS Tx is not contributing with added noise (it should not, by design), and this will be determined by comparing both scenarios for sound and dynamic quality.

Thanks.
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Lon
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #64 - 03/17/15 at 14:33:40
 
I'm glad you had a different experience than I had, with both my Tripplites. (And it's possible that Radcha and I are abnormally sensitive to high frequency sound, though the increase in THD with the Tripplites indicates something was there, would be interesting to see what happens in your case, though I think the P3 is much more effective at removing THD than the PPP was, my P5 reduces it to .01) Hopefully you'll be set once you have a P3. I agree that it will be sufficient for your system and even allow you room to grow if you do. I have a P5 and love it, I was very happy with my Power Plant Premier (and use it happily in my system here at my father's) but the P5 was a nice step up. Hope you can land one soon.
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #65 - 03/18/15 at 18:11:40
 
Today I received the last confirmation, from PS Audio Engineering, that the P3 would work no problem with my IS Tx:

"After working with engineering they feel that the two wouldn’t create any issues."

Reason I insisted for confirmation is the people at Tripp Lite are not convinced two transformers-like (i.e, their Voltage regulator and the IS Tx) can work together as one would look at the other as a potential power problem or something like that (also, because both are high output impedance devices). Anyway, I feel at ease now with my plan.

Neat. Let the dice roll ... bargains, bargains ...  any bargains?
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #66 - 03/22/15 at 18:50:30
 
Well, still no voltage measurements confirmation (had to work yesterday Saturday again)... But, today's sound was back to normal, as apparently the power issues are having a 'remission'. I don't know how long it will stay this way, so I keep looking for a used or open-box PS Audio P3.

In the meantime, I'm back enjoying the gear again!

BTW, does anyone know what the effect of pairing two sets of speakers in parallel with different load impedances and sensitivities would be? Is it even feasible? If it is, is it advisable?

I would like to try my tekton Lore's (@8 Ohms/98 dB's) and DM945's (@4 Ohms/94 dB's ) together, but I want to make sure this is safe and something which people hopefuly have found to bring some sinergies?

Thanks for any advice.
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4krow
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #67 - 03/23/15 at 13:24:05
 
FB,

  I haven't entirely read all the posts that are here, so here is my advice. First of all, two speakers in parallel will end up with a lower total impedance. In the case of two 5 ohm speakers, you will end up with 4 ohms when in parallel. In your case, a speaker at 8 ohm impedance and a speaker with 4 ohm impedance will result in a total impedance of 2.67 ohms. For a lot of amps, this is NOT advisable. My Rachel amp, IIRC will drive it all day long. So the short answer is that it depends on the amp you are using. Finally, I would want to see an impedance curve of the two speakers to be paralleled to make a decision.
 Let me look for the web page that will help you address this issue, and then I will try to post it here.
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4krow
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #68 - 03/23/15 at 13:27:26
 
[url]                                http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm                                [/url]
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Fireblade
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Re: Still having issues with AC Power
Reply #69 - 03/24/15 at 13:03:24
 
4krow,

Thanks for the pointers. Even though I skimmed over that article, I came away as confused as I was before reading it. Well, not so in terms of the concepts, but whether a tube amp like my Mini Torii would be able to handle the 2.67 Ohm combined impedance without sacrificing sound or dynamics.

I guess the answer to this would come from Steve. I only know my amp works best (max power) at an 8 Ohm impedance so it would probably won't be a good idea to do this. After all, part of the reason for replacing my DM945's with the Lore's were its impedance and sensitivity. Thanks again!
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