Hi guys
Hope listening is good. I have a question I hope to get som help with.
I read a lot in forums still and Im getting more interested in power treatment. What I want to ask you is; can I use a battery to power my Mini Tori. Im thinking of using maybe 2 12volt high capacity battery and an inverter to get 230 volts (Norway)

First i just wonder if it can be done technically, what would positive and negative effects of this solution? Im thinking of going this way because i find products like Isotek and PS AUdio power plants to be very expensive. The MT only uses 75watts (correct?) but im wondering how long a battery will be able supply power. The inverter im considering will contain an automatic chargersolution.

As you can tell, im not educated to understand if this is doable and good solution. Please point me in the correct direction for a good solution.

J

Edit.. Ups.. Post ended up at a wrong place, can moderator please move to correct place..

jorgan,

Technically you *can* use a battery run through a (good) power inverter to power an amp, but I'm betting it would introduce more trouble than it's worth.

First off, the whole point of running batteries is to get yourself off of A/C and the noise that rides on it. Once you introduce an inverter, you're putting whatever noise the inverter is causing back into the line! Interters are made using the cheapest materials possible to get the job done, they are far from audiophile or lab grade.

Secondly, part of what strangles an amp is that instantaneous draw of power, and the supply line not being able to give it. With straight up batteries, you can get good, low resistance power pretty fast. But who knows how that inverter would strangle the current. Even though your amp is only 75 watts, I would recommend an inverter of no less than 1000 watts so that it *might* have the juice and not strangle the amp.

Lastly, I mentioned resistance above. One of the features of the expensive (oh so expensive!) PS Audio regenerators is the low resistance that your amp sees when it asks for that sudden pop of power. I'm having trouble looking up where I read this, but I swear that PS Audio touts their regenerators as 10X less resistance than even your wall outlet!! (I could be wrong on that last part, but still)

So my recommendation to you is that if you happen to have this stuff around, or you can borrow this type of battery/inverter setup - give it a try. But I see lots of reasons why it might not work to your liking.

One last warning, if you use lead acid car batteries - they off-gas something that's not good for you. I forget what it is, sulfur or something - so lead-acid batteries are not recommended for in home use. Be Safe!

I hope that helps out some. I'm no expert, but I read up a lot on stuff like this.

LR: "One of the features of the expensive (oh so expensive!) PS Audio regenerators is the low resistance that your amp sees when it asks for that sudden pop of power. I'm having trouble looking up where I read this, but I swear that PS Audio touts their regenerators as 10X less resistance than even your wall outlet!!"

For what is worth, wall outlets are high output impedance sources. The whole notion of Power Correction Factor (or PCF) is applied in power conditioners that actually offer so low an output impedance, you get a significant boost in dynamics (severals dBs higher SPL in equal conditions). All transformers are also considered high output impedance devices.

Jorgen,

As LR stated, I also don't think a battery supply will accommodate the necessary peak current demand draw triggered during highly dynamic passages, but this needs to be tested before arriving to any conclusions.

Any artifacts, like an inverter (especially the size you would need) will be seen by the amp as high impedance output device too, not good. I think battery supply is ideal for digital components, but not for speaker amplification duties, in general.

This is just my non-expert opinion, of course.

Sounds like an idea, although what really messes up with noise are the larger components (transformers, chokes, rectifier, etc.) ...  I think?

Jorgen,

I have not looked into this area for audio, but I built and used an off-grid micro-hydro power system from 1984 until 2007. I had a very small 24 volt turbine that charged a bank of lead-acid golf cart batteries, the battery wired to the inverter and a dump circuit (water heater) to keep the battery from over charging. Since the turbine produced 24 hours a day whether or not we used the power, we needed somewhere for the power to go. In your arrangement the charger would take care of regulating the battery charging.

So I know it is possible, but as mentioned, the question is how quiet it would be. There were many developments with inverters in my time, and they got more quiet with "sine-wave" inverters, but they were not pure sine wave and had noise in the output, and though regulated, voltage could move around a bit.

Also, a charger has its potential electronic noises. These would be important areas to look at carefully. Using batteries for audio noise reduction, you could easily defeat the purpose with the wrong charger or inverter. Since the charger wires to the battery and the inverter comes off it using the same terminals, any noise can go right across the battery.

Special batteries designed to deep cycle (car type batteries are designed for very high output for short periods and not to cycle deeply) would be needed. Deep cycle batteries have voltage and amp hour ratings. Other than getting the right battery for the job (acid, lithium, or whatever) you would need to calculate the optimal battery size for your instantaneous surge use and to sustain your general output, including the inverter inefficiency. And DC power with batteries can be dangerous!

It would seem to me also, likely better to do without the inverter if possible, like Raven suggests, but this is a whole different arena, to bypass the AC of your amp.

And there may be quiet inverters now. But I find that everything matters with our transparent gear, and for me, even a PS Audio P5 imposed a notable sound signature in my system beyond the benefits of voltage regulation and "clean" power. It all has to go through wires and circuits and caps and receptacles, etc, and each of these apparently can be heard. I had to work with this a fair bit with cables, feet, a fuse and the addition of a Shunyata Defender to get the P5 where I liked it. I am really picky after years of careful system tuning, but still, to me the stock P5 was not transparent, even with PSAudios best power cable. And these are built for audio by smart folks.

Also, Steve spent a fair bit of energy on the Mini Torii power supply and VRs and the rest. So one trick is to clean the power before it without messing up Steve's voicing.

Below is link for a battery power setup for 24V, not exactly what you need, but it is from a guy who has done serious research and development on transparent power with reduced noise. His name is Dave at Pi Audio. He knows a whole lot about these things, and may be able to help you get to an effective solution.

http://www.piaudiogroup.com/BatteryBUSS.html

http://www.refurbups.com/APC-SURT6000XLT-Smart-UPS-RT-6000-XLI-208V-200-240V?sc=...

Hos about something like this?

Nice of you guys to educate me and share your experiences. There is a movie on this site were Steve switches to battery power. Anyone knows what his system are made of?