I'd encourage you to try a single driver crossoverless option if you're willing to try that out.  If you do go that route though, you probably want to forget the Tektons as they do seem to have a crossover that's a bit more involved than a simple cap on the tweeter which is I think what is widely believed.

The various driver options in the Omega Lineup will give you different sounds so depending on what you are looking for (speed and transparency vs. warmth and more bass) will depend on which model is best for you.

Sorry, no help here Fireblade.  Every one of those speakers has peaked my interest at one time or another, but I have not heard one of them.

I know there are some Omega fans that here will hopefully chime in.

I suppose your location/ultimate goal rules out the monoliths.  Those companion cabinets really do transform the 945s into a different animal.

Don't forget the Zu Audio Souls ... Coax (no crossover, just a capacitor on the tweet) @ 99db @ 8 ohms.  

My experience with Omega (aside from what's already been mentioned) is that there is a cohesiveness that I have just never heard (aside from Magnepans and other panel type speakers).  Even speakers that are renowned for their coherent phase designs such as Vandersteen for example still do not posess this.  I have come to the point in my listening that when I hear other designs I can hear separation of frequency ranges and sometimes this can even get a bit annoying.

Fireblade,  if $2000 for a new pair of Zu Audio "Souls" is out of reach financially, I would suggest being patient and consider buying used.  I have bought everything except my CP3, ZP3, Torii MK IV, Taboo MK III, HR-1s and Audeze Headphones...used.  All interconnects, power cords, Rega RP6 TT, two Jolida 100 CD players and Zen Signature Mono Blocks, have all been bought used, some Zu stuff new via ebay auction...speakers, powercords, speaker cables and one shielded interconnect for the ZP3.  Just setup searches with emails for what you want at ebay.  Also do searches at audiogon and usaudiomart for what you want.  For example, you'll find two current listings below...the Omegas I think are over priced...I would pay 1500 max and the Zu's are the old model...I would recommend waiting for  the Soul MK II which is the link I gave you previously, with the single speaker...99dB and 8 ohm.  Don't be discouraged...in several months you'll be surprised what will pop up.

The seller of my Omegas a while back was trying to sell a pair of standard Omega Alinco 7XRS speakers for $1500 but had no takers...the listing expired.  This was a good deal but he'd probably take less if he still has them.  I don't feel comfortable giving out his email but below is the expired listing from which you can contact him.  He also has a handle on Decware's site but I can't remember what it is...he's only posted a few times.  Good Luck,  Mark.

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-omega-speaker-systems-super-7-xrs-a...
lnico-rs7a-2014-07-11-speakers-21702-fort-detrick-md


http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649145484-zu-audio-soul-speakers-mint/images/...

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-omega-speaker-systems-super-alnico-x...

PS... Fireblade, I noticed the old link for Audiogon doesn't work.  I've copied his listing below and I've sent him an email to ask him to contact you if he still has his Omegas and wants to sell them.  Mark.

Omega Speaker Systems Super 7 XRS Alnico (RS7A) [Expired]
Listing ID: lis5cha7
ClassifiedListed July 11, 2014 12:43am1119 Views
Convert?w=840&h=630&fit=maxOmega Super 7 XRS Alnico speakers, single driver wonders, EKO walnut laminate finish Super 7 XRS Alnico speakers, magnetic black cloth grills, EKO walnut laminate finishEvery Omega speaker is hand-made by Louis Chochos in Norwalk, Connecticut.  Proprietary alignments (cabinet tuning) and cabinet design, triple-layer cabinet construction, plus a finish laminate layer. This wood sandwich virtually eliminates sound degrading cabinet resonances.Omega Super 7 XRS Alnico speakers with whizzer conesOmega Super 7 XRS Alnico speakers, EKO walnut laminate finishThe elegant back-tilt spikes allow the sound to project out into the room, reducing the influence from the floor..Omega Super 7 XRS Alnico speakers, single driver wonders, EKO walnut laminate finishThe elegant back-tilt spikes are included and allow the sound to project out into the room, reducing the influence from the floor..Omega Super 7 XRS Alnico speakers, black cloth magnetic grills, EKO walnut laminate finishPacked in original boxes and materials, and then will be double-boxed for added safety.Louis says Alnico magnets are "better balanced and more linear across the frequency spectrum, with better texture and layering.  Offers higher resolution (especially noticeable in the mid-bass area, with instruments like standup bass and kick-drums. "Two views of one of the Alnico full-range 7" drivers in this pair of Super 7s - recognizable by the square shape of the open, cast aluminum basket. Perfect point source and phase and time accurate.
Time Left: None
Ending: 8/10 at 12:42am
Asking Price: $1,500.00
New Retail Price: $2,295.00
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Add some notes about this listing.
Condition       9/10 ?
Pay methods      PayPal, VISA/Mastercard
Ships from      Frederick, MD, 21702
Ships to      United States
Package dimensions      44.0" × 25.0" × 20.0" (45.0 lbs.)
Shipping carrier      
unspecified
Shipping cost      Specified after purchase
Original accessories      Box
Agon-miniAverage?      Research Pricing
Item Description
Second price drop! Offered for sale is a mint hand-made pair of Omega Speaker Systems Super 7 XRS speakers with the full range Alnico driver (RS7V) with whizzer cone. The finish is EKO walnut. If you are reading this you are probably already familiar with the wonderful reputation of Louis Chochos and his hand-made speakers. This is a chance to own a mint pair with no waiting. I have had these for only a few months and must sell them to meet other financial obligations. They are barely broken in (gently, using 20 wpc, never played loudly). They have an almost spooky ability to make you feel as if the musicians are in front of you. They have the cleanest, clearest, most detailed sound I have ever heard, except from another pair of Omega Super 7s.

The speakers will be well packed in their original boxes with original packing material to be certain they get to you in the same mint condition they arrived at my studio. Insured shipping will be via FedEx economy (takes just a few days) and will not exceed $200 if packed this way (CONUS only); I will pay anything over $200. To be absolutely safe, for another $100 for extra shipping and materials, I can double box the original box with another layer of padding in between. I rated them 9 out of ten due to them being broken in and also since I temporarily removed/replaced the bass port following instructions I had received from Louis (just four screws) in order to photograph the Alnico driver from the inside. I have a 100% rating on ebay, and can provide that information to you if you request it. Buyer pays actual shipping cost up to $200 and Paypal fees.

Louis states that "there is no question in my mind, Omega’s proprietary Alnico drivers produce the sound and tone I strive for, so they are now used exclusively in some of my upper-end models." Compared to ferrite magnet counterparts, the sound produced by Omega Alnico drivers is better balanced and more linear across the frequency spectrum, has better texture and layering, and offers higher resolution (especially noticeable in the mid-bass area)

Note: The labels on the back of the speakers identify them as RS7 model, which is the current designation from Omega Speaker Systems for both the ferrite and Alnico magnet driver. These speakers have the far more desirable Alnico drivers rather than the ferrite ones. Please see photo of actual Alnico driver taken from within the cabinet. The Alnico driver is easily identified by its distinctive square black cast aluminum basket.

XRS stands for Xtended Room Speaker. What is extended? The all important midrange, the width and depth of the soundstage, the bottom end, and the "hugeness" of the presentation, all from a very compact speaker (32"H Super 7XRS). The bass port is angled downward on the 7XRS, enhancing the bottom end. The wide baffles enhance the midrange, giving a wide open unboxed sound and tremendous imaging. The back tilt projects the music out into the room, lessening influence from the floor and making stands superfluous.

With their full range 7" single driver these speakers have these characteristics:

  - Perfect point source and phase and time accurate

  - 44-18 kHz (in room response to 38Hz).

  - One-piece whizzer / dustcap assembly

  - Dual cone with twin rolled edge surround

  - Lightweight OmegaFibreCone material, with treated and pleated accordion fabric surround

  - Open, cast-aluminum basket, which greatly reduces back wave bounce back

  - Powerful Alnico motor

  - 93dB SPL
  - 8 Ohm

More information is available here: http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super7xrs.html

You can read an informative view of the slightly smaller Super 6 XRS here: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2010/09/omega-super-6-alnico-xrs-extended-room...


From Louis: My proprietary drivers are specifically engineered and constructed to deliver a balanced, full range musical signal. The quality of drivers used in Omega’s speakers is virtually unparalleled at their price points. A high efficiency design (93db sensitivity) allows [them to] work equally well with high or low-powered amps, tube and solid state. With low sensitivity speakers you must ensure that you have enough power on tap to properly drive the them. With Omega speakers, you can direct your amp budget at sound quality rather than just quantity and stop chasing raw power. Omega speakers are very SET friendly. High sensitivity also results in better macro dynamics, which means that Omega speakers sound exceptional at low or high volume listening levels, allowing detail, immediacy, and dynamics to shine through.

Questions for the seller
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Ask the seller a public question

Or, if you can DIY, a whole world of possibilities opens, great sound can be had for little $$$.

Fireblade,  I run both my Zu's and the Omega Alincos with a pair of Decware Zen Signature Mono Blocks that are rated at 2 watts per channel and they play plenty loud...I've never tried to see what the max would be.  Now, ironically, my Taboo MK III rated at 4.6 watts per channel paired with the Omegas did not provide adequate volume...go figure.  I think there's more than just Watts at play.  Before you dismiss Alnicos at 93 dB eff, you might want to speak to or email Steve.  Mark.

Here's the deal.  Even though the Alinco 7XRS have a seven in the name, the drivers are actually 6 inches.  It seems to me that I read a comment by Louis that he just liked the number 7 for the speaker nomenclature but Louis is constantly tweaking and reworking his speaker offerings and does build custom one offs like the ones I have.  I'll try to find a pic of mine and put it below.

Given you're barely getting by with the 94 dB Decware speakers...are they 8 or 4 ohm?, it would probably be wise to go more efficient.  I've got to tell you again...I think the Zu Souls sound like they'd be perfect for you at 99dB and 8 ohm.  You might want to call Zu Audio and speak to Sean, the President, about your needs...he might cut you a deal including shipping.  I spoke to him once before knowing he was the president and founder of Zu Audio...very nice and willing to speak to the technically ignorant (Me) to meet your needs...Great Customer service!  Mark.

PS...can't find the pic of my speakers...got tired of looking.  It's in the forums somewhere but it's no longer available via ebay where I bought them.  The drivers look identical to those shown on Louis' site.

Your name is David right?  David (Fireblade), in the recent past Zu Audio had been changing things frequently.  I think they tried using retailers but went back to direct sales out of Utah.  I bought my first pair via ebay from Zu Audio then the "Souls" were sent direct to me after I had issues with the first pair..Sean was very helpful and even upgraded the speakers from "Unions" to the "Souls" after hearing what kind of Music I listen to.  Below is the home page.  You are going to have to go to the contact page and call...it's painless.  There's even an 800 number.  There are about three guys that answer the phone 9 to 5 weekdays.  If I were you I'd ask to speak to Sean, he's probably the only one authorized to give you the best deal. Tell him your concerns...what equipment you use and what Music you listen to...he'll do his best to fix you up.  Even if his best deal is still too much at least you'll have gotten an education on Zu Audio.  Mark.

PS...the current retail price on the site is $2000 down from $3500 previously for standard finishes.  Here's the product page for them.  Scroll down for the data sheet and more info...  http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul

PSS...here's a pic of a pair in my color, Honey Walnut...they have others and an almost infinite ability to do custom finishes...for a price

http://www.zuaudio.com/

FB,

Forget the "specs", your speakers are around 91dB 1w/1m.
They are 94dB 2.83v/1m which means a 2 watt input at 4 ohms.

Omega's 7 series speakers were originally available in 3 versions, 7A Alnico, 7V Vintage ferrite (no whizzer), and 7F Ferrite with whizzer.        
Now only the 7F is available.

If you are looking along these lines I would recommend asking Louis about the new 8" driver.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130573.0

Quote:


Recently I spoke with Louis after going through their website. I had questions about two different model speakers listed on their site. I found out one model had been discontinued while the other was no longer being built to the spec's listed on the website (sounded as though they were in the process of modifying it). I would be even more interested in some details on the above speaker.

In any event when I got off the phone with Louis, I was more confused than before the call. It didn't turn me off to Omega necessarily, just prompted me to wait until they decide what final production versions will be.

Louis is getting ready to start production on a new 8 inch driver.  There's been a pic or two posted on the Omega forum.  This is the driver that Lin is probably referring to.

8" with whizzer or 4.5" without the proof is in the listening, some prefer one and some the other. They both have pros and cons.
With bass help I usually prefer smaller drivers.
I run my Super 3i's with 2w set or 6w sep and I have some 90 dB speakers with minimal x-os that I run with 6w.

DM945 can not be 93/94 dBs 1w/1m.
Check the driver specs.
4 ohm driver  Re 3.7 Ohms  Sensitivity 93.7 dB
8 ohm driver  Re 7.3 Ohms  Sensitivity 91 dB
Same sensitivity, only difference is impedance

If an amp doubles output into half the impedance (which yours does not) you get the gain in spl.
It is a numbers game, volts vs. watts.

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity
Scroll down to: Comparing the Sensitivity of Speakers with Different Impedances

Have you looked at the link?

"You just proved the DM 945's are 93.7 Db at 4 Ohms."

If the amp is putting out 2 watts into 4 ohms, at 1w/1m it would still be 91 dBs just like the 8 ohm driver.

Most tube amps are rated for the same output at 4 or 8 ohms, some actually produce less power into a lower impedance (which means a 4 ohm speaker will actually not play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker).
Very, very few tube amps put out more power into a lower impedance.
Most ss amps produce more watts into a lower impedance, but very few actually double the power.

Here are the ratings of one of my amps: 6w rms pentode 8 ohms/ 3.5w rms pentode 4 ohms - 1.8w rms triode 8 ohms/1.7w rms triode 4 ohms.
As you can see it does not double down, it stays the same or loses output in 4 ohms.

"So what is the expected output power of the Mini at a nominal 8 Ohms speaker load if it boasts 3.3 watts at 4 Ohms?"

From the amp page: The Mini Torii will work with 4, 8, 16 ohm speakers, but will put out the most power into an 8 ohm speaker.  To be sure that fractional amounts of power differences between these three loads are not an issue we recommend speakers that are 93dB 1watt/1meter or higher and ideally 8 ohm.

This tells me that with your amp the DMs are at best 91dB @1m, which is very important when comparing to other speakers.

None of this would be a problem with a 200w/ch amp.

Lin,

I'm sorry I had not read your link when I replied to your statements. I then did and found out you are absolutely right. My mistake.

So, as it goes, my current efficiency is 91 Db at 8 Ohms, which means I could live with anything from 93 Db and higher at 8 Ohms given my current setup.

Thanks so much for your valid inputs.

beowulf,

The pictured speakers in your link (Audiocircle's) is a fake and belongs to a discontinued pair of speakers as you can see here:

http://omegaloudspeakers.com/builtproductions.html

The fact that Louis is designing a new 8" driver is probably true and it will probably beat everything else in his stable (other things being equal). The problem is when would these be available and how many initial bugs people will get from them in the first production runs.

The smartest move would be to wait for things to settle and then make the acquisition. Buy then, though, I may have found other valuable choices. We'll see.

I think my choice will end up with either the new Omegas if they become available relatively soon, or the venerable Soul Mk 2 if I can get me a deal.

Thanks for your contribution, I may consider the wait.

Someone suggested the possibility of two Decware imminent offerings which may finally close the existing gap of moderately priced and highly efficient speakers.

1. Bob's MTM horn speakers (from Decfest) - Any relation to El Camino's Project?

2. Steve's DNA with the Mark Audio driver

Although I don't really know anything about these designs, other than what was announced by Steve recently, I tend to also believe these may make good alternatives.

Does anyone know what the price range of these would be and how close are these to production/distribution?

Thanks for any hints.

I wouldn't call the Super 7 drivers "old tech"  they are only about 2 years into production and the RS5 drivers have been around for a bit longer.  But the Omega RS5 driver is kind of like Decware's Super Zen in that ~ although it's been around for a while, it is still his most revered product.  The RS5 has been known to sway Harbeth owners over to the Omega side which says a heck-of-a-lot IMO.

Since the RS5 is crossoverless I'm thinking it will be easier to drive than your current speakers.  The RS7 is even more efficient and finally the 8" (maybe it will be called the RS8) is even more efficient and approaching horn efficiency, but still with single driver coherency, speed and imaging.  There's no bad choice here, just what works for you, your gear and your room.  With the Mini Torii I would forget about the AlNiCo, although it could drive them I'm unsure if it will be to satisfactory volume compared to Louis' other offerings.

The Zu Souls are more expensive and (at least to me) sexier than Omega and Decware ... but they are still fairly new, so used ones seem few and far between, but if you are patient enough you could hold out for a used pair.

This is a reply from Louis (Omega Speaker Systems):

Hi David,

Thanks and the best way to go is the all new 8" driver in the wide baffle design that comes with the stands in a package.

They will start at $1850 a pair with the stands and shipping to Florida is very easy.

The speakers will be very dynamic and will be 98 dB sensitive. These are golden ratio wide baffle cabinets and sound fantastic and look great too.

Thanks, Louis


What do you guys think? Its still way expensive for me, but quite tempting ... Man!

Those are going to throw a nice, big soundstage and will be super easy to drive (almost effortless for the 4 watts the Mini Torii puts out).  If they truly have the detail and speed of the RS5 but oomph of the RS7 in the lower end this will be a great speaker and I may actually consider a pair for myself.

With a crossover like this, I definitely wouldn't consider the Tektons full range designs.  These seem to be essentially two ways with pro drivers using maybe higher crossover frequencies.  I've yet to hear one of their designs, but I'd love to.

Ok, thanks to seikosha for bringing out the actual missing link that would explain why the Tektons, good value as these may be, are not on par with real full-driver and two-way crossoverless designs. Shame, because the price on the Tektons is really appealing for what they offer otherwise.

Continuing my search, I have not yet received answer from Louis about a break on his high introductory price on that new model which nobody has yet seen, nor his appraisal in terms of distribution leadtimes.

Which means it is very likely my final short list would consist of:

1. Omega Super 3 U (94.5 Db @ 8 Ohms, RS5 driver) at USD 800 - These are slightly larger than my DM 945's, so maybe not much of an improvement in the lower frequency, weight and slam department.

2. Omega Super 7 (95 Db at 8 Ohms, RS7 driver) - These are significantly larger, with expected positive 'oomph' effects.

3.  Zu Audio Soul at a bargain price (either new through a factory deal or used) - These would be great but as the new Omega 8", are out of my 'reasonable' budget.

Fireblade,
Very good deal on audiogon for a pair of omega xrs for under a g.

JD

Just browsing and it caught my attention that the Axiom speaker model m50 V4 is a very efficient multi-driver speaker and at a great price.  

I've never personally heard them, but I read that the owner of Bryston Audio went to Axiom when it came time to build Bryston's own brand of speakers for a couple good reasons (1) he felt Axiom made great speakers and one of the most knowledgeable designers out there, and (2) even more important perhaps is that Axiom has their own state of the art research facility and are known to use pretty rigorous testing procedures that include double blind studies on all their designs as well.

Anyways, just thought I would throw this out there

edit: they do have b-stock and outlet speakers too and the actually post measurements which is getting rare these days.

I know you ruled out DIY earlier in the thread, but I've got just the thing for you if you're willing to glue, clamp, etc.  

http://brinesacoustics.com/Pages/M18-T772/Main.html

Similar TB W-8 driver as Decware is now using in the ZOB;  reasonably flat impedance that never dips below 8 ohms; 95db/w straight up, and only down to 94db/w with bsc (I recommend it).  On paper, it seems like a great match for your MT, and at least 3db more sensitive than your current speakers (like doubling amp power, woohoo!)

Plans are dirt cheap if you have a local artisan who will build the cabs for you, and the drivers are about $250/pr.  These are among the few wide banders I can actually tolerate, and that's saying a lot.

Lin,

Well, everybody has his/her own conceptions about it. The reference I cited is from a purist audiophile, and although I agree those limits may be somewhat excessive, they're still a general guide on the relative needs for sensitivity across low amp power distributions. I think the reference's real excesses come when describing the moderate to higher amp power limits, as these guys are mostly into SET configurations and I believe they are just making a linear extrapolation of their low-watt experiences.

The thing that motivates me the most with this project (and an interesting way of investing part of my scarce free time) is discovering the real limits of my Mini Torii and get to the bottom of its design potential to make me enjoy more my music.

Some people do it differently, and that's ok too. I know there's better sound potential in my setup, and plan to gradually get there, even though it is a never-ending proposition.

The real mistery in this aim is the barrier of tradeoffs ... what is the sound quality price of going too far in sensitivity, other things being equal, aside from the volumetric cabinet limits faced by drivers in the low frequencies, for example. This I would like to discover also.

Fireblade you said something in your last post that caught my eye about your mini needing more breathing room.  I have a mini too and my main criticism is that I often felt that the amp could at times have a closed in dense sound.  I spent hundreds of dollars trying to address this through tube rolling and while I could lessen this sound, I never could eliminate it.

Don't get me wrong, this wasn't a pervasive flaw, but it was something that would pop up with various recordings.  For sure I would have blamed it on my speakers if I hadn't heard them with other amps so I knew it was just a characteristic of the mini Torii.

One day I heard the little zen amp in my system and was shocked by the change.  All of the sudden, the music breathed where it didn't before and there was a noticeable increase in micro dynamics, speed and transparency.  Although the mini certainly would play louder, the zen actually sounded like it had more power.   It would follow the dynamics of the music in ways making it sound like it the amp had a more effortless way of handling the speaker load.

There are times when I still prefer the presentation of the mini and I pop it into my system all the time depending on what I'm listening to where I can listen to it for weeks and not hear that thickness until I play certain recordings where it jumps out.  I just wanted to point out something that I've picked out as a characteristic of that amp that may be leading you to change speakers when in fact this might not give you the change you are looking for.

In my last post I speculated about Beam Tetrodes possibly needing more 'room to breath' (sensitivity) from the speakers.

For the sake of argument, let's see this from a purely quantitative approach:

A 91 Db /W /M (at 8 Ohms) speaker will produce, with the Mini Torii, about 91 Db (SPL) at 2 meters from the speakers (91+3+3-6) Dbs.

Let's just say this is achieved at the maximum (undistorted) volume level in the Mini.

Now, use a 97 Db/W/M speaker instead, and now you get (97+3+3-6) = 97 Dbs of SPL at 2 meters from the speakers. In this second scenario, if you want the same level of loudness as before (with the 91 Db/W/M speakers), you have a significant volume potential in reserve for all the dynamics, slam and overall music presence, including some nuances that did not get through in the original scenario, just because the power on the Mini was at its clipping limits.

This is what I'm talking about. That Triodes presumably tend to do better than Beam Tetrodes under the same conditions (i.e., show more nuances and better overall sound performance vis á vis the Beam Tetrode), is something that, if objectively true, stems from inherent output tube properties we cannot modify.

So, if I want the best out of my Mini, I need to partner it with significantly higher sensitivity speakers. Although the same principle applies to the Triode configuration (and every other tube amp, for that matter), it may be that in the Triode case these nuances show up at lower SPL levels, other things being equal. Again, an inherent property we cannot change.

Another relevant complication with the Mini Torii design that reinforces the described situation derives from its highly sensitive gain. The specs show it will achieve max power at 2 Volts from the source input. In many cases, this input voltage (from DACs or CD Players,etc.) is literally 12.5 to 25 percent higher than the 2 Volts maximum power set by the designer's preamp circuit. Naturally, the volume pot has to be further restricted in its range in order to avoid clipping.

The higher the speakers' sensitivity, the better the scenario for the Mini to overcome this near-clipping zone and still maintain enough loudness SPL and volume in reserve, which translates into better dynamics, slam, oomph and nuance detail.

Just my thoughts.

You are right, I may be overdoing it ... Part of the decision-making process, I guess. I'll continue on my own. And, I agree, its either of those two, or bust. Thanks for the "hint."

Alternative loudspeakers, no preamp, DAC or amp required:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-9wUHlOCDg

Yes, it's in French.

I'll be looking forward to your impressions a lot of people seem to love them.  Also keep us informed with the lead and delivery times ... I've heard it's hit and miss with him, but perhaps its gotten better since the last 2 years or so though.

Nice! I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions on the Tekton speakers. I keep running into forum posts on them while researching the Zu Audio speakers. Seems very comparable, and maybe something I should keep an eye on myself.

http://www.fastlaneaudio.com/yields.html

Maddog's post made me think of these which use the AN Super 10...not sure if they're an option for FB at this point.

An amazing read this post is. Thank you Decware Forum members for sharing your opinions, knowledge and insight. Thank you David (FB) for you personal message. Happy listening, Chris.

@ maddog07 - how do you feel about AlNiCo drivers and rock music?  A lot of people I have spoken with seem to think that rock (hard rock, prog type stuff) are better suited to Ferrite or Neo magnets where AlNiCo is better suited to Jazz and slower classic rock. orchestral type stuff.

In fact, I originally wanted a pair of Omega's with their 6" Hemp AlNiCo magnets, but after speaking with Louis he steered me towards the ferrite RS7s as he said that they tend to breakup less and can take more punishment with harder rock types of music.  The thing is ... although I do listen mostly to rock and its sub genres ~ lately I have been getting more into Jazz and am now about 60% rock and 40% Jazz/Classical where as before I was 95/5.  That and the fact that his Hemp AlNiCos are touted as his best drivers, better texturing layers and ths most even tonally throughout the frequency spectrum make me really want to hear a pair.

@ DBC - yes I've read that, but did you notice in your own "Speaker Recommendation" thread that you started ... the first thing that Canada Rob recommended was the Ferrite based RS7 driver after seeing your music preferences?  So anytime anybody says "rock" they don't handily recommend the AlNiCo's.

Just a comment: I believe the Omega Alnico drivers would be the best choice if it wasn't for the limited sensitivity for smaller amps, like mine ... Otherwise, everything I researched about these monitors put them on top of any short list. Besides, in general, a good SUB/Mid Bass support is always welcome, regardless of speaker type and with the Alnico one should get the best presentation overall.

One need only have an amp with watts in at least the teens, to make this work, though.

@ DBC - I'm defintely waiting for your impressions on the AlNiCo's.  Especially with the Zen Triode.  I too am not interested in decibles as most of my listening is at lower levels at night when everybody is already sleeping.  I do rock the house occasionally during the day, but not to some exorbitant levels and will be using with sub as I love bass.

@ FB - I also agree that I would be more comfortable with a higher wattage amp such as the Torii to have enough headroom to cover all of my bases.  With DBC's Peachtree he will be in good company.

@ Mark58 - I am not totally sure, but I believe you have the 7" AlNiCo which were designated RS7A drivers.  Those are different drivers than the 6" AlNiCo Hemps driver that are used in the AlNiCo Monitors and Super AlNiCo XRS.  It's just my guestimation though, but I know for sure that at one time he had three 7" Drivers, the RS7 (regular), RS7V (vintage) and RS7A (AlNiCo).  Which seems as if he doesn't produce the RS7V and RS7A any longer.  The difference between the 2 AlNiCos was that the RS7A was a paper cone and the AlNiCo SuperHemp uses Hemp cones and very overbuilt cast aluminum basket.

@ Mark58 - Yes, you are right, the RS7 cone is 6", but with the basket ring it is 7" (actually  little over 7").  Does that mean the SuperHemp cone is 5" and with the basket 6"?

I guess my whole point is that there were 2 completely different Omega AlNiCo drivers ... the 6" Super Hemp and the RS7A and the Super Hemp has of course hemp cones and the RS7A had paper cones, with the Super Hemp being the best of the best.

There is a quick way to find out ... that is if your curious, if not I wouldn't bother.  But if you unscrew one of the drivers and pull out just far enough to see the basket and motor and if the motor looks like the pic below then it is the 6" SuperHemp, if not it is the RS7A paper.  



It's pretty easy to do as when I originally got my speakers I had the RS7V (vintage, which is no longer in production) and I felt the highs were too rolled off for me so Louis replaced them with a set of the RS7 regulars, basically it was a quick swap that took less then a few minutes to do both drivers.  Another possible way would be to read the sticker on the back it should say Omega Custom and then mine says "RS7 Omega Cone", so if it was the Super Hemp it should say something to that effect of "ALN6LB Omega Cone" ... if so then you have the best Omega drivers he has ever made according to Louis and Rob.

Here is the review from John Darko (Digital Audio Review) where they were the first product he ever awarded called the DAR'KO.  But in the pictures from the review you can see how the drivers are labeled on the back sticker.

@ Mark - from the looks of the last picture you have the RS7A driver and not the Super Hemp, yours look exactly like mine (except mine are Ferrite).  

From Canada Rob over a Audio Circle:

The top of the line Alnico is more refined in every way than the Super 7 alnico (the sound signature will be similar though), and for a few hundred bucks more than a decked out Super 7, the Alnico still IMO appears to be underpriced...because a decked out 7 is a steal.  Where the Super 7s have their advantage is when ordered in the EKO finishes - $2150 gets you an alnico driver in an XRS speaker.  Back to the Alnico: look at the physical differences in the two alnico drivers - big.  The Alnico HempCone driver has been Louis top of the line for years, and for good reason.

That being said, you can take pride in knowing that your AlNiCo drivers (while not being the SuperHemps) are for sure the best sounding of the RS7 (RS7, RS7V and RS7A) series of drivers and very similar in many ways to the SuperHemp.  In fact ... I believe the reason Louis stopped making the RS7A were because they were crowding in on the SuperHemps.

I would love to hear those sometime!

@ Mark - there was a time that Louis was talking about "driver rolling" (the same concept as tube rolling) where you could easily swap in/out all 3 different RS7 drivers to get different flavors and use them for different music, etc.  I thought this was a cool concept, but for some reason it didn't pan out.  My biggest guess as to why this didn't work is probably because the RS7A pricing was crowding in on the SuperHemp.

I've heard 2 out of the 3 RS7 drivers (the only one I haven't heard was the RS7A).  Out of the 2 that I did hear the RS7V Vintage while having a great midrange, the highs were just too rolled off for me ... the RS7 Regular I felt was more well rounded with the same midrange, but also highs were very good ... It's my best guess that your AlNiCos are even better as Canada Rob said not only did they have the mids and highs of the other two, but the RS7As were the best tonally and smoothest throught the frequency range on top of that.

At any rate, I hope to aspire to a pair of SuperHemp Monitors at one time or another as I just need to hear that SuperHemp!

On a side note, DaveC from ZenWave Audio (who has some really good ears IMO) has heard quite a few of the Omega drivers that Louis has produced and he has mentioned to me that Omega can easily compete with the expensive Single Driver offerings from Voxativ and others.  The only single driver speakers he heard that were significantly better than the Omegas were a set of RL Acoustic LamHorn 1.8's using the very expensive AER MK I in which he mentioned that the bass was so deep he was really impressed as a true full range single driver speaker design.  The AER MK I has been said to be the smoothest (no peak) single driver out there ... that one's on my bucket list too.