Hi seikosha,

Interesting viewpoint, which addresses an inconclusive argument about SET's and SEP's. Of course, you have the advantage of comparing both alternatives in your setup, which I don't.

I still think the SEP amp configuration's sound is very close to a SET's, with individual characteristics that differentiate them all right. But at the core of the issue, is both designs need critically not to be cluttered by crossovers, impedance curve complexities and cabinet volume restraints, as well as limited drivers' speed and dynamics. Maybe part of the differences you hear stem from the Mini requiring relatively more breathing room than the Super Zen, just because of its beam tetrode nature, which BTW adds some 'PEP' to its presentation.

Whether the differences you hear are explained by those design tradeoffs is a matter for experts to decide, but to me, I would not conclude anything until I hear my Mini without evident restraints.

This is not different to improving cables and power supply sources. Each may have differing power requirements to excell. At the end of the day, what counts is whether your amp is at its best so that you can really enjoy that design as it was intended. Again, the Super Zen may requiere less sensitivity than the Mini, not because of power restrictions but because of the way those output tubes behave. In addition, the Super Zen has a more straightforward signal path relative to the Mini's tube voltage-regulated, slightly more complex circuit. This difference may require less resistance down the road than the SuperZen.

It may be that some people prefer SET's to SEP's, but sound quality is a complex notion, and Triode midrange magic is not the only trait involved in the musicality and realism projected by these devices.

If I were to go by your suggestion, I should forget about my speaker quest and just buy a Super Zen (cheaper solution, BTW) and call it a day. Is this really your proposal?

Just two things stop me from grabbing the easy way out:

1. My DM 945's cabinet volume is evidently limited/taxed by physical dimensions, yielding sound traits for a diminished physical size compromise.

2. Given the affordable price, my DM 945's don't have the best drivers out there, nor its design compares with good, full-driver designs.

You may be right, seikosha, and raise good points, but I have to say, I still need to compare apples to apples, and the Mini's optimal setting is beyond what my loudspeakers offer, good as these are for the money.

I may be wrong, of course.

Hey Fireblade,  buy some damn speakers already....Jeez...

Zu Audio "Souls" or Omega 8" Monitors would both be great.  You need to stop the Blah Blah Blah and get down to listening...hehe  Mark.

Fireblade,
How long did it take you come to the decision to buy a Fireblade?
My real hobby is motorcycling, this stereo stuff is just a small sideline.
I am interested in your decision making process of a motorcycle vs a pair of speakers.
Did you fret about what was the lightest or the best handling?
I guarantee that your motorcycle is much more capable than you are, as I am sure that your stereo sounds better than you can hear.
Lighten up, it only about listening to music. As long as you can hear it, it is all good.  

Just for the benefit of those who contributed positively to this thread, here's my final update:

Today I pulled the trigger on a pair of Tekton Lore 2.0 with Clarity Caps (98 dBs at 8 Ohm).

I consulted with Steve before deciding and he endorsed both Tekton and Omega speakers for the Mini, based on his customer base feedback and his familiarity with those two design concepts.

In the meantime, I'll keep enjoying my DM 945's and will compare them to the new acquisition after an expected longish burn-in.

Thanks!

Thanks Beowulf.

I don't have a clue what to expect regarding the logistics. I spoke to Eric this afternoon and he seemed quite supportive, but I know in my case he will need to work on the Caps replacement, so that will delay matters some.

I'll post my impressions when these babies reach steady-state.

Thanks, LR.

I think the different design implementations out there are all subject to tradeoff choices. In the Tektons' case, the value proposition may hopefully not betray sound quality.

IMO the best compromise should be a loudspeaker capable of displaying the full frequency spectrum with slam and PRAT by combining a highly sensitive large full driver with a complementing tweeter through a single, benign crossover. This would allow the Mini to show its best, at its preferred load Impedance rating (8 Ohms).

My choice is based on this bet, but the proof is in the pudding, and we'll find out soon enough.

Interesting observations.

Of course, the Lore S have been superseded by Lore Reference and Lore 2.0. In fact, when I spoke to Eric Alexander from Tekton, he never even hint at the Lore S option, suggesting instead the Lore Reference or Lore 2.0, depending on whether I preferred more slam and dynamics from the larger 10" drivers in the latter.

I wish I had the means to DIY, but maybe when I retire (which is not happening anytime soon), I could give it a try.

I would have picked HDT's if these would have been within my budget constraints, as these are about the only ones in the Decware lineup at higher sensitivity ratings.

Omega's Alnico driver-based Monitors (hempcone) would have been great too, except at a lower sensitivity rating (93 dBs), which would not have been enough for the Mini Torii.

I guess you get what you pay for, but my search led me to the Lore 2.0 and I hope these do not disappoint.

It's time to offer preliminary impressions on my new Tekton Lore 2.0's, with Clarity Caps.

I have also made some additional room treatment tweaks and placed my SUB between the two speakers, right next to the right one. Speakers are sitting on spikes over a rug.

With only 31 hrs of break-in and 169 hrs away from absolute steady-state (according to the designer), I can proudly say my system sounds better than ever.

Now I enjoy more body and slam, and at the same time equal or even better detailing, without any fatigue. The best sound comes with my Brimar 12AT7's replacing the RCA 12AU7 black plates, as the former used to be somewhat overly beamy with the DM945's, while the 12AU7's now sound fine but tend to be darker in sound and miss some of the details the Brimar's mine out.

One of the features I enjoy more now is the fact that my dial is only at 9:30 for most of my selections (whereas before the most used range was between 12:00 and 1:00. With classical music the level of reserve is evident in the dynamic passages and there is a more coherent flow of the sound overall.

Still early, but I expect further improvements by the end of the year, which is when I believe the new speakers will attain the 200 hour mark.

The DM945's are slightly more transparent in the high registers, but with a recessed mid-range and a somewhat less defined bass, as it had to be reinforced with my SUB as high as 75 Hz and usually 65 Hz. Now, my SUB is just getting in at 50 Hz, with a nice, deep and tighter sound.

I believe all the details are there with the new speakers, just in a more coherent, flatter distribution, without high-mids bumps or piercing highs in some bad recordings. The SPL I find myself listening to these days is lower than before, probably due to the more coherent frequency distribution.

All the above impressions are from listening during non-peak AC power demand hours, which in my place recently tend to affect voltage and reduce the quality and SPL of the presentation from voltage drops.

I feel my Mini is working in a more relaxed environment and offering its best this way, thanks to the higher nominal impedance and speaker sensitivity.

Coherence and slam with all the details is exactly what I was looking for and I'm finally getting. I think the DM945's are terrific speakers in their own right, which need more power or be used as bookshelf speakers or coupled to the Monolith cabinets to be at their best.

Thanks

Hey Maddog! I just got back from the St. Louis area, and while I was there I visited David @ Commonsense Audio. I auditioned his 15" AN (neodymium), and I gotta say, I was pretty impressed. Lots of detail, big soundstage. They were in one of the medium-large cabinets (the shallower of the 5.6 cu ft, I believe), and he said that the bass would be better in a larger/deeper cabinet. He suggested his 8 cu ft cab if I had the room for it. Still pretty good, though, even in the smaller box. I'll be interested to hear your review of yours when you get the boxes done.

Randy

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132290.0

beowulf,

In about a month I will be able to give you some feedback on the Omega Alnico Super 6 Monitors, I have a pair on order. Like you, Rob and Louis suggested I consider the Super 7 MK2. I ultimately made my decision based on these attributes:

Quote:


Generally I find as resolution & clarity improve then shear volume output capability become less important to me. In other words you get to a point where "All the music is there" at a lower volume setting.

The impression I got from Rob and Louis was this: If you were to compare the Super 6 & Super 7 to each without a Sub then the Super 7 is likely to win out on shear output capability with Rock music. Also you have to consider available amp power and speaker sensitivity.

In my case I use the Hsu Mid Bass Module and Hsu 15" Sub to reinforce the low end (this combo makes any speaker sound much larger). I chose the Super 6 because I felt this would provide the Highest Quality reproduction.

I also have a Peachtree 220se integrated amp, so available power will not be an issue. I plan to use my 2 watt Super Zen for comparison. If I only had the Super Zen then I probably would have gone with the more efficient Super 7 ???

DBC,  I think you'll really like your new omegas.  Your purchase has moved me to put in my custom Omega Alinco 7XRS...these have the 6" alinco drivers I think you're getting.  It's only been recently that Luis has redone his product names.  I have to tell you that I have to use a Amperex 6DJ8 (taking out the 7308s) in my Mono Blocks to tone down the treble...which is very extended on the Alincos. I'll go find a pic of mine and post it.  Mark.

PS...The pic on the ebay ad from may of 2014 is no longer available.  I thought I posted a pic on the forums but can't find it after wasting far too much time looking.  The speaker has a narrower baffle and is deeper than what Luis traditionally has built...it was a one off by Luis that I bought used on ebay.

Beowulf, the RS7A (AlNiCo) was a 6" driver,  I just measured it.  As I recall, when someone asked for a reason for the nomenclature, Louis basically said he liked the 7 name.  The drivers used now look identical to those used before the product line name changes but maybe he did redesigned the Alinco drivers...I don't know.  Mark.  

Beowulf,  I bought mine used in May 2014.  The prior owner sold them because he couldn't get enough volume with his 5 WPC Glow Amp.  I can't find the pics  but these off the AC forum show an identical cabinet but not the drivers.  The drivers I have are identical to the ones in the second picture of speakers owned by jorgen. The third pic is the driver.  The label on mine is incorrect...and is labeled 95dB and a different driver type but the prior owner sent pictures where he stuck a camera in the ports and took photos of the drivers with the big magnets inside the speakers.  If I can find them, I'll post them.  A post by Canada Rob on the AC site from July 2014 stated the following..."Concerning the 7" alnico driver, there only was one, regardless of how it was, or is labelled, and there are no plans for it's redesign, now or in the future"  I did measure the drivers including the frames and as Louis stated somewhere, they are 7 1/8 inches in diameter (6 1/2 inches without the frames).  Regardless they sound great and you'll love them...I'm sure.  Mark.

PS...I just found the photos but can't figure out how to attach them here.  Anyway they have a black metal square on the back with a white label dated 06/12/13 and Omega Model 7A.

PSS... reading more on the AC site..I found a nice history dated 2/14/15 from which I'll quote.  The link to it is below.  
"The Drivers

Most of Omegas changes over the years have been to the cabinets much more so than to the drivers.  The original Alnico 8" driver was dropped because Louis realized the Alnico 6.5" was better.  He was honest enough to drop the 8" and eat the cost of the large stock of 8s he still had.
The current 6.5" Alnico driver has been in production for years.  The RS5, HempCone 4.5", and the Fostex before it all share the same cabinet hole and screw pattern making the cabinets they are in upgradable to the current driver in cabinets going back more than 10 years.
Many companies change their drivers when they change their cabinets.  Total obsolescence.
The RS7 is the first all new driver for Omega in years (excluding the Hoyt driver).
NOTE: THE RS5 DRIVER IS NOT A MODIFIED FOSTEX, NOR DOES IT USE A FOSTEX BASKET.  THE RS5 IS A "FROM SCRATCH" OMEGA PRODUCT.

Omega speakers are designed and built by Omega in Norwalk, CT, U.S.A.
Even the drivers are made in the U.S.A to Louis' specs and can be had nowhere else than in an Omega speaker.  Many speaker companies barely even touch the products that have their name on them, other than to evaluate them and show them at trade shows."
"The Alnico Series

This series was around before I came into Omega and has, but for small changes, remained essentially the same.  They have cult status and are good enough to be put in the best systems available.  I have one complaint about this series - the price.  They are way underpriced, which sadly, in the minds of some, cheapens them.  Too bad, they're the losers."

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132501.0

Beowulf,  you are correct.  Before yesterday I didn't realize that there had been two different Alinco drivers, both 6.5", being sold at the same time but the photos of the OEM drivers on the Omega site are clear.  The Alinco Hemp has a much different basket and the frame has not four screws like the 7 series but 6.  Also the Hemp material is Greenish not black like the 7A.  So I guess the RS7A is no longer available.  Actually the 7 series is now one driver not three.  And the price to get an "Alinco Driver" vs the RS7 driver is large...the difference between a Super 7XRS in laminate ($1495) and the Alinco XRS ($2995)...$1500.  Regardless, what I have sounds fantastic.  Mark

PS...if you take into account the extra $400 for wood veneer you are paying $1100 to go from the 6.5" RS7  driver to the 6.5" Alnico driver.  The other thing I'm thinking is with the different frame, would the Alinco Hemp fit in a 7XRS hole?  In the past you could buy and switch out your 6.5" drivers to any one of the three options that were available.