will,

when it comes to tubes, i love your info.  thanks.  so what are the tubes that DECWARE is selling?  are they most likely the same tubes i'm currently using?  should i be concerned by the "light show" i'm getting out of the rectifiers?  it's subtle but i notice it.  would swapping out the OA3s do anything beneficial?

awesome!  thanks will!

installed the RCAs today.  i dont really notice much of a difference in the sound as of yet.  i do notice the absence of static.

not sure if its the new RCAs but i'm not digging the low volume sound i'm hearing from my amp.  normally i listen at lower than normal levels and everything sounds great to me, but i find myself turning the volume up louder than normal with these new tubes. does this make any sense?

i guess i would say: darker.  i've gotta turn them up louder to get a clearer sense of the music.  at lower volumes they seem to smear or just have less clear detail.  am i making sense?

No darker/less clear makes sense, but the less bright quality compared to the Russians is more likely showing more that your room/system is still too close to the edge of bass overwhelming the mids. Rather than trying different rectifiers, I would try some OB3s or OC3s...back to your beginning question. If you look, you could get a pair of each for less than most NOS rectifiers. Alternately, you could get Shuguang/Ruby's like you had inexpensively, getting the brighter tone, but being bound to that quality of sound. If you can open the sound up otherwise, the RCAs should take the sound to new levels.

I guess you have the bass switches toward the back for less low bass boom???

well guys.  i've got bad news.  the static is back.  its only on one channel.  could it be the oa3?

Bummer.

You can figure out if it is a tube by methodically switching channels with each tube  pair and see if it changes sides, though this may be a little time consuming if warming up a tube stops the noise. It could also be a dirty connection...if you identify a tube, and don't have any deoxit, you can use high strength alcohol, like 90% to clean the pins, or very fine steel wool if you are careful.....

so i am back to the boomy bass stuff again.  do you guys think those tubes steve recommended would make a big difference?  i'm thinking its time to try out the isolators that go under the speakers...really bummed because i was hoping to be DONE with the upgrade game.

archie,

i PM'd you my email.

I sent you some pictures.  Let me know how things work out.

roggae,

I understand, I was a skeptic also. I was simply trying to nudge you enough to give them a try. I'm not associated with Auralex in any way but I am completely sold on how much they cleaned up the low frequency in my room.

A few others here and on other sites were reluctant to try them also. So far I've not had to send any of them cash to cover the return shipping. In fact most purchased additional platforms for other subs and or speakers in their systems.

So as you say, "we shall see"

is there any thing else that could be causing this extremely low frequency bass to be bouncing around?  is it possible my rack needs to be adjusted or replaced?  here are some photos: http://imgur.com/VZWdKO2

http://imgur.com/OKR1CRy

i have those acoustic panels lying around.  where would i put the bass traps?

You could place a 1/2 to 1 inch rubber mat under a nice rug of your liking and that will help.

JD

i started with the EL 34s.  i really liked the sound i got out of the KT66s v. the EL34s.  i've got those isolators coming tomorrow.  i'll put those into place and report back.  i'll also try the panels in the corners too...

Cool. I prefer KT66 as well, but if my bass were too boomy I'd probably try EL34s again; was using a quad recently in the Torii that I had at my Dad's place and they sounded great, was also nice to hear the Hazen Grid mod in place again. Still. . . KT66 are great, I'm really enjoing the TAD I've been using nearly a year. . . probably will order another quad soon.

I'm not using those isolators because I'm not having bass issues and I'm afraid they may raise the tweeter height a bit more than I'm accustomed to.

Quote:


So it could be the amp, the speakers or the room?  You've got the subdudes coming, the room could be complicated so you might try a cheap and easy isolation for the amp by puting a lightly inflated wheelbarrow wheel innertube under it.  I've never tried this kind of isolation before but I've seen it used in some isolation systems and industrial machinery vibration isolation footers.

I find that the Torii responds to EVERYTHING, for better or worse, and vibration will mush up everything including bass. Location of the feet (if you use them) makes a notable difference.

So isolating the speakers will very likely help as the floor vibrations are also getting your rack and your gear, especially if you like the "sound" the isolators make. But it would surprise me if you didn't find further improvement with good sounding vibration control on your rack and the amp. The reason I say good sounding is that different isolation and feet sound different. I have not made Archie's isolation rigs, but they make sense to me and are inexpensive. I just have a good range of isolation tools so have not built any.

Also, as posted above. OB3, OC3 and OD3 will progressively open/tighten the sound from pushing the power tubes less. This gives more spacial information from opening the sound and reducing bass power and density. Usually, these are pretty subtle shifts if you have bass issues masking the rest, but you can hear it.

I just turned off my EQ for a quick test on the Tungsol 6L6Gs Steve recommends for reducing bass. Compared to the Valve Art KT66 I have been using (more open and transparent than the warmer/deeper Genalex and the warmer Tungsol 6L6G), the 6L6G bass does sound less deep and wide. Another potential step, but not huge. Then with the bass switches back, another improvement. But for me, in my room, still dense and less resolving compared to fine tuned EQ.

I have one low going diagrammatic bass trap, but it does not quite get it in this room arrangement and I have no place for another in the living room.

Then I changed my usual OB3 to a Sylvania OC3A and put the bass switch back to the off/forward position, and that just about does it for me with the 6L6Gs, the 7C51 (OC2 type) Mazda GZ34, and Siemens PCC88 I have in. I like the richer tone this way though the bass switches "on" help reduce low bass further.

Then I put in a Mazda OD3 and like it quite a lot with the Tungsols. The bass switches off is pretty good, the OD3 also opening up the warmish Tungsols nicely.

Generally, I don't hear much boom here perse, but I get fatigue from low stuff being too strong. Without measuring, from experience this is very low bass resonance as well as low bass. By attenuating some specific frequencies (usually 45/66/ and a shelf cut around 20 Hz), the bass actually sounds bigger and does not hurt my sensitive ears. Even though my speakers are not supposed to go that low, the 25 down stuff can be really irritating to me.

Still prefer the EQ sound, but it subtly adjusts all remaining minor and more major room anomalies.

I just turned EQ back on with the Tungsol 6L6G and OD3 in and it sounds really good. Pretty similar to the more open Valve Art KT66 with my usual OB3s.

Bass traps and resonance/vibration are your primary tools, but if it is close, there are tubes.

Yes, it is the room and how your speakers and amp load it, but I suspect there are few rooms where you can't tame the bass via the range of available tools. Real (not pseudo), low ranging bass traps, the first purist approach.....

Another tool is Green Marigo tuning dots. They transparently tighten the resonance of mid/bass drivers. Last I looked they were about $35 for 12. I use two each on the front and radial drivers of the HR-1s. If I did not have bass challenges, I would like these anyway.

Also, do your Zus have ports. You could experiment with different levels of tuning (plugging) them.

BTW, thanks for getting me to try the Tungsol 6L6G again. I like what they bring to my current sound in the mids.

after further review i would say that the bass has tightened up and is less loose.  it still booms in this room.  i moved some furniture and it sounds a touch better.  not perfect but better.  why must i have such hearing?  thanks for all your suggestions/advice/comments folks!

Yes, this makes sense. Vibration can set up all sorts of distortions, subtle and not-so-subtle, especially with a TT, but with anything in my experience. My system sound, across the spectrum, is effected differently by different vibration reduction feet. Even different locations of the same feet under the Torii MKIV changes the sound.

so far so good guys!

OA2 is interesting as well (I'm running RCA). Warm bass but tight in my Torii.