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Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet? (Read 201279 times)
NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #650 - 04/14/19 at 23:55:50
 
I'm running 7027a's from TAD and I'm not thinking go rolling anything else at this point. Too much to do and too little time. And I retire in two weeks!
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #651 - 04/15/19 at 00:37:12
 
Norm, have you tried a 7581A?
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #652 - 04/15/19 at 03:02:15
 
I have tried the 7081a's and I like the 7027 better - they seem to have a more balanced range, whatever that means.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #653 - 04/15/19 at 03:36:45
 
NormD wrote on 04/14/19 at 23:55:50:
IAnd I retire in two weeks!

Congrats on the retirement! You're going to love it! Like me you may miss making a bit more money, but you won[t miss the necessary grind.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #654 - 04/15/19 at 17:07:05
 
Thanks Norm.  I guess a quad of 7027As is in my future!  I'm also looking at some NOS Tungsram for my ZMA and CSP3 based on your recommendation -- assuming you still like them.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #655 - 04/15/19 at 19:16:12
 
Well, I'm sort of side-stepping into more expensive NOS tubes.  I just bought 8 Tungsram PCC88 NOS tubes for $17/ea, delivered.  They will cover my ZMA and CSP3 with one spare.  I could have had matched quads but for a lot more $.  I've had good luck with other tubes by the each so hopefully I will with these as well.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #656 - 04/15/19 at 20:08:48
 
I’m still running the Tungstam PCC88’s in my ZMA. I also have them in my ZTPRE and haven’t decided between these and my Amperex.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #657 - 04/15/19 at 21:09:10
 
I just put a six pack of 6N6P in my ZTPRE in place of the Amperex 7308. Enjoying the change, a less focused, more relaxed sound.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #658 - 04/15/19 at 21:23:08
 
Going further in, I just bought a used quad of RCA 7027As.  Seller claims 95% of new and matched.  From the late 1960s.  Should be fun!
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Lon
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Posts: 16670
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #659 - 04/15/19 at 23:16:16
 
Lon wrote on 04/15/19 at 21:09:10:
I just put a six pack of 6N6P in my ZTPRE in place of the Amperex 7308. Enjoying the change, a less focused, more relaxed sound.

And just as quickly they are out. . . too diffuse and indistinct. I put the Sixpack of red-tipped 6N5P I got from Steve, these are sounding excellent right now.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #660 - 04/15/19 at 23:23:39
 
Lon, that's interesting.  What was the difference between the two six packs?  Not in sound but in tube.  Was it just that Steve hand picked great tubes?
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #661 - 04/15/19 at 23:29:07
 
Steve thoroughly tests and matches tubes, and tests for factors many other testers DON'T. The 6N6P were just a batch I bought from eBay, not tested and matched. The 6N5P were little jewels from Steve. I've determined if he carries a tube type and brand you want or use, the best examples are from him.

And these are two different (compatible) tube types: the 6N6P are larger in size, slightly different electrically.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #662 - 04/15/19 at 23:30:41
 
Oh, I didn't catch that they were 6N6Ps. I read them as 6N5P.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #663 - 04/17/19 at 16:24:06
 
Tube update:

I found a matched quad of late '60s RCA 7027As for a reasonable price that I should have in a few days.  I'll get to see if they do for me what they are doing for everyone else.   Smiley
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #664 - 04/23/19 at 00:24:30
 
I have the RCA 7027As in and while they sound quite nice, one seems to be weak.  I've had to swing the bias adjust all the way right to match two of the tubes.  I'll be contacting the seller and likely be sending the tubes back.  I don't trust that I'll get the life out of them that would justify the price.  The three good tubes are stronger than any tube I've had in with the meters ranging from 70s to an estimated 110mA+.  I've biased toward the low end at 76mA.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #665 - 04/23/19 at 00:57:13
 
Hey Arch,
Sorry to hear that man.  I was really hoping they would work out.  Good thing is you are covered well with purchasing on eBay, even if the seller gives you hassle.  Still, the reason you purchased them in the first place was to get a solid set of 7027A's in your system.  It is worth the journey so keep trying to find that quad that will deliver the goods.

I am also concerned that the lowest they would bias is 76mA.  That seems too high for the minimum.  I generally bias around 64 but can go below 60 if I wanted.  I don't because the strength of that tube type is its ability to handle higher bias settings.  

Send it back and keep looking.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #666 - 04/23/19 at 01:13:07
 
I'm a bit confused by what my meters are telling me.  I swapped the weak tube to the other side and I can equalize with a little bit of margin, maybe 2 to 4 mA.  On that side my bias window is from 52 mA to 80 mA while on the other side with the tubes balancing well, my bias window is 68 mA to 96 mA.  Using the controls to "test" tube strength, the weak tube is measuring far below the other three with a much lower high and low reading.  I don't really know how to use the meters as tube testers but clearly one tube has different readings despite being well matched according to the seller's test results.  I'm biasing at 72 mA right now.  These do seem to have a nice clarity.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #667 - 04/23/19 at 02:29:07
 
I have my TAD 7027a's biased a 50ma.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #668 - 04/23/19 at 15:53:06
 
Norm, that seems pretty low for that tube.  The 35W plate dissipation lends itself to higher biasing, no?  I realize it's a different tube but I bias my 7581As at 64mA.  Heat is not an issue, especially with the anniversary mods.

Since these RCAs are 99% likely to go back, I'm considering a quad of Tung-sol 7027As.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #669 - 04/23/19 at 16:05:29
 
Archie:

I forget how to figure the right biasing, so I may be low. Will you please refresh my memory?

If you want to test drive a set of 7027a’s, PM me - I have a set of JJ’s.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #670 - 04/23/19 at 16:20:21
 
This link has a calculator.  Jeff posted his ZMA voltage a while back.  I think it was under 400V.  The A and AB are for 90% and 70% capacity.  Even with my faulty memory, 60mA+ is easily handled.

http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm


Edit:  Check out some of Jeff's posts on page 10 of this thread.  His plate voltage was 390V.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #671 - 04/23/19 at 16:37:53
 
Thanks for the reminder and link. I’ll move my bias up this evening.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #672 - 04/24/19 at 15:24:31
 
VIVA tubes has a sale. Here is a link to 7027a’s.

https://www.vivatubes.com/search.php?search_query=7027a&section=product
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #673 - 04/25/19 at 01:08:05
 
That's a good price on the Tung-Sols.  I might jump on a quad of those.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #674 - 04/25/19 at 08:07:05
 
Norm,
Archie is right.  Get the bias up on your 7027A's.  It's a great tube type match with the ZMA and its design is robust, handling higher bias settings with ease.  Not only does it handle the higher bias, it excels with a setting of 60mA+  

64mA is where I currently have my JAN Phillips ECG 7027A's set.  They can handle more, but I have found this setting best with this specific make/model tube.  Be sure to experiment with a range of settings with your tubes and let your ears be the judge.  I would not hesitate to bias then anywhere under 70mA without an infrared thermometer to check your power transformer temps.  
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #675 - 04/27/19 at 18:28:34
 
I sent those RCA 7027A tubes back and I bought a quad of the Tung-Sol.  This seller has a great price and 24 hr burn in.  I bought my Tung-Sol 7581As from him and have been very satisfied.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-FOUR-Tung-Sol-FACTORY-PLATINUM-MATCHED-7027A-7027-...
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #676 - 05/02/19 at 01:16:42
 
I received the eight NOS Tungsram PCC88s that I bought from an ebay seller in Serbia.  I'm either easy to please or these tubes are fantastic.  I have them in my CSP3 and ZMA.  I'm using them with the Tung-Sol 7581As.  An added benefit of these tubes is that my IERC shields fit on them.  The 6N1P tubes are slightly too fat.

I think I'll buy another eight as backups.  I doubt they will get cheaper with time and he gave me a decent deal.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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ZLC
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #677 - 05/04/19 at 17:15:34
 
I have the new Tung-Sol 7027As in now and they are sounding quite good but not different than the 7581As.  I have them biased at 72mA right now.  I'll see how much heat is generated by the transformers but so far at 68mA and post anniversary mods and ZLC, the transformers run very cool even after 12 hours.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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Archie
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Posts: 1882
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #678 - 05/05/19 at 18:20:02
 
As the tubes settle in, things are sounding spectacular.  I don't know if it's the Tungsram PC88s, the 7027As or the combination of both.  I had some Kate Wolf live playing and she sounded more pure and there than I've heard before.  Seems to be an overall tightening and focus.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
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HockessinKid
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #679 - 05/05/19 at 18:47:11
 
Congrats Archie. Sounds like a great tube combination in the ZMA. You can really adjust the sound and tone of the ZMA through tube rolling. It's almost like having multiple amplifiers.  Great adaptability if you end up changing speakers sometime in the future.

HK
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #680 - 05/05/19 at 23:38:35
 
Archie, sounds like you have gotten to a great place! Your explanation makes sense to me as I imagine how those tubes could compliment one another. Both 7027As and PCC88s are similar, tending to a comparatively big spacious sound with a nice open balance...dynamic, and with good detail.

Seems the Tungsol 7027A has a particularly big, dynamic and focussed sound, bigger and more focused than many, but nicely articulate and open. Compared to its 807 sibling, my preference for some years now... American made 807s are close kin sonically, but tend to be less forceful, more complex and airy, at least in my setup...So when I use 7027s, I like to tone back the focus and power a bit.

I find the Tungsram PCC88s are one of the warmer PCC88s, while still having good fine detail and textures. Not quite as clear as some PCC88s, but having beautiful PCC88 traits in a little subtler and warmer way.... I can imagine how the Tungsrams could balance with the 7027s really nicely. The bigness and focus of the Tungsols supported by Tungsram's textures, and toned back a touch with their warmish complexity. Whatever, it sounds like you found a beauty spot!

All the adjustments you have been making with mods are probably coming to fruition too! After all my amp experiments, now about done, all tubes I try sound better. I would imagine this to be the case with the modifications Steve did for you, especially once the caps are nicely burnt in.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #681 - 12/09/19 at 15:30:59
 
This group seems very quiet lately.
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JRMedia Center running on a MacMini
Oppo 103D for video
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ZTPre & ZMA for Stereo
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #682 - 12/09/19 at 23:05:27
 
I'm still in a good place with my ZMA tubes and the Big Betsy with the F15 driver really took my focus off of tubes!
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
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ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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ZLC
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #683 - 02/02/20 at 20:43:19
 
Thought I'd post in this old thread.  My Tung Sol 2027As seem to be getting long in the tooth.  I had one on each side get weak (according to my meters).  I put the two weak tubes together.  I can still balance fine but I'm seeing that it takes a long time to really stabilize, maybe an hour.  I think the quad is about done.  By the calendar I got 9 months out of these.  I've biased at 68mA, which is on the high side.  I think I'll put my Tung Sol 7581As, which are barely broken in, back in.  As I recall, they were pretty similar and I haven't heard them since I went with the F15s in the large baffles.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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ZMA (25th A mods)
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #684 - 02/03/20 at 05:33:33
 
Hi Archie,
The 7020A's are still my favorite output tube type on the ZMA - mine are the ECG Philips/Sylvanias.

I have had a couple go south on me in what I would consider too short a time.  Philips ECG 7027A's are pricey, so to have a couple go as they did was very disappointing  Lucking I purchased several extra (a complete quad) as a back up so I was able to get right back in the game.  

And like yours, mine became inconsistent with regard to holding bias.  The suspect tube would wonder which caused me to have to fiddle too much with the adjustment dials.  I eventually replaced that bad tubes that was behaving in this fashion.  This happened twice  The PhilipsECGs are the military version of the consumer counterpart, but that doesn't seem to do much for robustness and longevity.  But, they still are the best sounding tubes I ever rolled.
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Canary Audio Grand Reference//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Memory Player + P10//Canary Audio MC-10 Phono Stage//London Decca Reference//Dynavector DV-507 MKII//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel w/ tube playback pre-amp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #685 - 02/03/20 at 16:19:32
 
This is the first quad that I really used "cradle to grave."  For $105/qd I'm not concerned but it sure can get expensive for your tubes.  I'm sure a couple are still good but it was easiest to just swap for a new quad.

These 7581As are sounding just fine too.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
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Delta 77
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #686 - 02/05/20 at 00:29:40
 
Just installed some new Sophia Electric KT88’s in my ZMA..
They want to Bias very high around (80) is that normal/right..??
Is that too high for the amp, will it hurt anything running the the bias that high..??
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DENON (dp59L)-Ortofon (blue)
DECWARE (zp3)
DECWARE (csp3-25th)
DECWARE (zma)
TEKTON (Double Impact SE)
Curious/Zenwave/Cullencable
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #687 - 02/05/20 at 00:41:51
 
You have to be cautious with KT88's.  They can be run safely on the ZMA but the bias of the tubes has a direct influence on the load imparted on the output transformers.  80 is on the high side but what is most important is monitoring the temperature of the Hammond output transformers.
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Canary Audio Grand Reference//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Memory Player + P10//Canary Audio MC-10 Phono Stage//London Decca Reference//Dynavector DV-507 MKII//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel w/ tube playback pre-amp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Delta 77
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #688 - 02/05/20 at 01:12:28
 
Oh, Thanks..
Didn’t realize KT88 were kinda off limits..!

I turned the bias all the way down,  now running around (66) ..
I will definitely keep an eye on the temperature of the transformers, then..

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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #689 - 02/05/20 at 01:13:48
 
Jeff, about the high bias, I've wondered about adjusting the bias down when the amp is idling for a while.  Will the KT88s allow a low enough bias to take the stress off when not listening?  I've never biased in the 80s but high 60s don't create an issue.


Delta, I don't get too hot at a bias of 68mA.  I think running off of a ZLC helped lower temperatures too.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #690 - 02/05/20 at 05:52:16
 
Honestly, I feel the Hammond 372FX output transformers are a bit more robust than we give credit.  After all, the maximum operating temperature is 221F.  When I was measuring the external temp with my infrared thermometer, I was getting readings between 130-145F.  Keep in mind the external casing will be a few degrees cooler than the internal temperature of the Hammonds.  That said, I was no where close to stressing these output tranny's.

I suppose you could bias on the fly to keep them idling low when not listening but based on the manufacturer's specs, I don't feel it is necessary.  Bias them by ear to what sounds best...  measure the temperature.... then decide if it is worthy of concern.  If 221F is max operating temperature, then make sure you don't hit anything higher than 180F on the external temperature with the IR thermometer.  In reality, as long as you are not pushing the 221F limit, the transformers should be fine.  Again, this is based on Hammond's data.  They are the manufacturer of the output transformers that Steve uses on the ZMA amplifier.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #691 - 02/05/20 at 16:58:58
 
One possible caveat to what you say though.  How much heat can the beeswax caps take before they melt?   Tongue
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #692 - 02/05/20 at 17:12:38
 
Very good point. The latest rendition of Beeswax caps Steve uses are the HT or high temperature version. According to Jupiter, the "Operating Temperature” is 158F. Not sure if that is maximum allowable, but assume so.
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Canary Audio Grand Reference//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Memory Player + P10//Canary Audio MC-10 Phono Stage//London Decca Reference//Dynavector DV-507 MKII//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel w/ tube playback pre-amp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #693 - 02/05/20 at 17:19:44
 
That's reassuring.  Regardless of the transformers, my ZMA gets quite hot just from the tubes.  I run a computer fan over it since it's in a bit of a stagnant corner.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
ZLC
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers
Silver Cabling
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Delta 77
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #694 - 02/05/20 at 20:48:05
 
Thanks Guys.
Feeling like I can use them(KT-88),  but it would be running the ZMA at or near it's temperature limit..

Making me concerned for the Bees wax Caps, and slightly concerned for the output transformers..

This amp is too expensive to just not be concerned/worried.
Maybe run them for a few more days just try and see if it will run cool enough to not be worried..

Other wise they will go up for sell (my mistake your gain)..
Most likely with a $100-$200 lose for me to learn from..

I have a friend in Tracy area with some Quicksilver 60 mono's that take KT-88's , he will might be interested in these..

They sound GREAT, a much more robust presentation , and stronger bass..
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INNUOS ZEN mk3 (streamer)
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DENON (dp59L)-Ortofon (blue)
DECWARE (zp3)
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #695 - 02/05/20 at 22:31:10
 
Say Jeff,

what is your Canary Audio Grand Reference..??
is it a preamp, how do you like it...

I've had to pull my CSP3(25th) out of the system do to a vale it seemed to bring to the table..
The Modwright/OPPO 205 is doing the preamp duties very nicly, but unable to connect my Turntable to the system..

Been looking at ARIC AUDIO's equipment page (Drool) , He has a couple of preamps I thinking of purchasing..!!
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INNUOS ZEN mk3 (streamer)
MODWRIGHT OPPO-205 (DAC)(CDP)
DENON (dp59L)-Ortofon (blue)
DECWARE (zp3)
DECWARE (csp3-25th)
DECWARE (zma)
TEKTON (Double Impact SE)
Curious/Zenwave/Cullencable
ZMF ”Auteur” (headphones)
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Archie
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Posts: 1882
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #696 - 02/05/20 at 23:53:51
 
Delta,

A couple years ago Steve told me that he ran KT88s in his ZMA and admitted that it might shorten some component life but that he'd take the chance (since he IS the factory).  I don't think you're looking at anything catastrophic.  If you are careful and don't leave the amp on all day you'll likely be just fine.  Get an IR thermometer and monitor the transformers.  If you can keep you hand on them for a few seconds they should be well within the OK range.  It typically takes hours for things to really heat up.

If you look at the original ZMA development thread, Steve spec'd the bias at 60mA.  He then dropped it to 50mA to be absolutely safe.  That's where I started but I'm up to 68mA all day with no heat problem.  The ZMA is a tank and can take a little experimenting.

It's good to be aware of the pitfalls but I think you can navigate them easily.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #697 - 02/06/20 at 00:50:54
 
Hey Delta,

I guess you are using transparent cables to and from the CSP3-25? Then, I am wondering what tubes you are using. My modified CSP3 has a sonic character, but one I like, and that I would not call veiled. But I cable roll power and ICs on occasion to support musical transparency, as well as vibration mitigation, and tubes! With this all balanced, along with CSP gain settings being pretty tuned, I can go from warm and full, to leaner and open pretty easily depending on tubes, and with excellent micro information.

Besides tubes, one thing I always notice with my Decware, is that once all is really balanced to transparent and open, it is sensitive to voltage (higher=denser/thicker, lower=more open/spacious). Also, we know cable materials and design/geometry can make notable differences, but also cable/wire gauge can really matter with similar effects to voltage changes. Along with these design and material influences effecting the sense of transparency or lack thereof, if the sound is thickish and darkish enough to feel veiled, I can change that with a good sounding lighter gauge power cable...and/or less heavy ICs of the same design and materials can open things up.

Anyway, I, and others here, have tried loads of tubes and if you are interested, if we knew what you were using, we may be able to help.?.
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Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY +
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Delta 77
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Posts: 33
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #698 - 02/06/20 at 02:08:44
 
Hi Will,
I have a few sets of RCA ICs Decware (2),Cullencable (2)..Not very high end..
Just bought a set of Zenwave 3.5 IC (1) seems to sound better than the latter, but still trying to upgrade my all my RCAs to match each other.. I still  need to buy one more Zenwave 3.5 to go with my ZROC2 (on the build list) then another if/when I replace the CSP3...

The CSP3 was my first Decware product, introduced to me through the ZMF headphone website.. My ZMFs are very nice especially when paired with the CSP3, love them both as a set..

I need a remote volume control somewhere in the system and,
I would like to keep the DAC set at maximum..
Leaving the CSP3 off the table for the main system..

Decware’s ZTPRE has had my eye for a long time $3,000 seems within budget, but by the time I add the RCA input , Remote volume control, caps, 25th mods I’m in around $5,500.. All I really wanted was a remote, and to return  the Turntable to the system..

But honestly since getting the DAC modded it seems to sound better going directly to the amp without the preamp in the way..

Tubes Currently in the CSP3 are
6DJ8 “bugleboy”  (vintage tube service), 1 socket
Stock red top 6N1P tubes in the , 2-3 sockets
SE - 274B and RCA -CRC 5R4 GY (vintage tube service) 4 socket









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INNUOS ZEN mk3 (streamer)
MODWRIGHT OPPO-205 (DAC)(CDP)
DENON (dp59L)-Ortofon (blue)
DECWARE (zp3)
DECWARE (csp3-25th)
DECWARE (zma)
TEKTON (Double Impact SE)
Curious/Zenwave/Cullencable
ZMF ”Auteur” (headphones)
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #699 - 02/06/20 at 02:49:40
 
Sounds like dropping the CSP3 is a forgone conclusion so I won't go too far in, but will touch on tubes. Based on those you mentioned, the tube that would contribute most to a veil would be the 6N1Ps. They can sound pretty good in that position, but to me, sheer transparency is not what they are about...more about warmth, and "forgiveness" without being too dense and dark. And "forgiveness" often = veils if your system is revealing of fine detail and space. Of the others, I find the SE 274B weighted a little toward bass/warmth which could shift the balance to thicker, more veiled depending on all else. Though I prefer others here, if its spectral balance is not a problem, I think it is a nice revealing tube. RCA 5R4GYs vary some, but tend to be pretty fast, open and transparent, even too open/clear in some tube sets and systems. Does using it help the veil?
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Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY +
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