Steve, you mentioned they sound like giant Zens. What kind of output range are you ranging for on the new Mono's?

Steve, I am definitely interested in purchasing these Mono's. Actually, before the new Pre. However, the new Pre probably won't follow far behind (Remote Volume).

I have my CSP3 so dialed in with my ZMA-I don't want to change anything other than the 6C33C TRIODE Tube Mono's coming in, with your Topology an Voicing! The ZMA is a masterpiece, it will be going nowhere.
Having the choice of ZDSD to CSP3, or ZDSD direct to ZMA, 6C33C Mono's or SE84CS-will be as good as it can get.

Keep the info coming. I will gladly purchase a pair when you feel they are ready.

Steve, you mentioned they sound like giant Zens. What kind of output range are you ranging for on the new Mono's? Just like the CS at 2 watts/ch......the new Mono's can sound giant @ 15, 18 or 20/ch with the 6C33C. I believe it.

UFO Transformers in the new Mono's too?

Makes sense, from what I read too. After he exhausts the inventory of the Tranny's.....the UFO will be standard implement.

I just sold my 3035's.....puts me just under 5k in the kitty.

Bring on the SE Triode 6C33C Mono-blocks!

Toys.....got to have toys!  I just wish they were not so damn expensive.  ;D

I guess I'm living the dream. I can't believe how great everything sounds these days. Figures I'll have to dismantle the whole system in two months!

I don't know about that. . . I do know that its sound reflects how I want my playback to sound. . . but I do realize over time reading this forum and Hoffman board. . . how I want things to sound is not necessarily how others do!

But yeah, I've been tinkering with this for a few decades and I've depleted both my resources and my patience for more radical change. I'm trying to just sit pretty and listen. If I get a windfall, I'll order Steve's Zen Monos and his new preamp and be done, again. If he can squeeze a treble cut circuit in there somewhere

~Bump~

Having the choice of ZDSD to CSP3, or ZDSD direct to ZMA, 6C33C Mono's or SE84CS-will be as good as it can get (for me).

(+ my Yggdrasil coming in).

Realizing Steve, you're very busy with the UFO Mod's and Torii Junior release.....I wanted to express my continued interest and I'm sure others interest, in the Decware 6C33C Mono-blocks.

I asked Steve about the new Ultralinear: He said he's voicing it yet and there may be specs and prices in 30 days. I still think the Monos are going to be way pricey ... The ultralinear, if really resolving, may be the ticket for more affordable higher power, although I still have concerns about its transparency relative to the Torii, Rachael and even ZMA.

LR, I think you need to ask Steve over a couple beers for a ballpark date on those mono's and a hint at the ballpark price, too. It may be worth the wait in my case ... or not!

Hi all

Just wanted to add support to fireblades' suggestion. Read someplace he was enjoying his organic beer, a couple of those, and find out if this monos will be an option for us waiting. I am contemplating if I should go for a Zen select or wait to know if the monos will be an alternative

LR,

Well, it looks like you have been sent on an official forum mission, so don't forget to pick up those special brews from Wisconsin  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk2Ot2YiLKc

Always fun to dig up whats out there........ .

Jorgen,

I know you have a Mini Torii version 2. Could you give us some feedback on the 'Feedback adjustment' feature? Would you say it is worth having this mod performed on version 1 due to its sound benefits? Or do you think the benefits are really not improved sound quality but tone adjustment?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Jorgen,

I'll consider this decision some more, although I'm somewhat of a Purist when it comes to sound signal manipulation, meaning I prefer to open up the tone through the right tube complement choice rather than accepting the sound tradeoffs involved in reducing feedback from the original voicing. I may of course be wrong, and maybe I can get advantages out of this mod. I also stream my music from a Laptop via an external DAC.

Thanks so much for your valid points.

With a TT you bypass all digital processing, so any distortions would be stemming only from the analog realm. The hard part is the hardware has to be really good to get good sound, which makes it much more expensive than digital, IMHO.

The feedback is fixed by the designer's voicing decision. The feedback adjustment overrides this decision and reduces it from about 6% (fixed by design in the Mini Torii) to anywhere between that and 0% feedback. The fixed design feedback is determined through voicing to obtain the best sound compromise, as the feedback trades off dynamics vs THD.

Consequently, I'm conceptually not inclined to any overriding of the optimal (fixed) feedback value, regardless of the enhancements in some of the sound characteristics, since it is actually creating higher levels of distortion.

Excellent work as usual, Steve, congrats! Unfortunately, it will not be for me, given its high but I'm sure very fair price. I'll be on the fence for the Ultralinear, as this remains my only other choice before deciding to beef up my Mini Torii. Thanks!

On my radar as well. I just have some other items to pay off first!

Hmm
My thinking at the moment: I can order a Select today if I want, for my second system in a smaller room upstairs. Or: Use my MT upstairs, it will be a very good system.. and save up for a while and have these monos in my living where I will keep playing music most of the time. It will be a pretty big stretch to afford them, and I guess a preamp is needed aswell ?..
Its very seldom i feel a need for more power, but you know, every now and then.., also the Select with my (ordered) custom alnico from Omega is getting rave reviews and probably I will never look back and regret buying that amp.

Find the monos very tempting though, and I can wait, I have music playing everyday through speakers and/or LCDs

So I stopped by Decware on my way home from Peoria yesterday. Spent some time chatting with Steve, and gave a bit of a listen.

Steve was working on a JR. I really like the symmetry here.




And while we spoke, I heard good music coming from the other room. Nice, room filling music.





After a while, I sat down and Steve queued up some tapes. Which sounded good as always




So, I'm sure you're all wondering what I thought.

I have to preface this by saying the amp isn't done yet. Steve is letting it simmer - just using it, and seeing what happens, how he feels about it over time. He admits, that over time, the monos are really sinking teeth into him.

Also keep in mind, Steve builds these prototypes with "common parts" I'd call them. So this doesn't have UFO transformers, it doesn't have the choice caps, and I'm sure there are other little details that a production amp would have that a prototype wouldn't. Steve's thinking here is that if he can squeeze the best sound possible by really working the circuit, till it can go no further; then the UFO transformers and best Jupiter caps and even better layout would only elevate the amp.

Ok, so first things first. As Steve mentioned, the amp is just into the low 20 watts on an 8 ohm speaker. He has it playing through his white HR-1. And flat out, it does not sound like a little SET amp. It was big, and room filling, and had BIG bass. And this was at a casual listening level that you had to raise your voice to be heard over.  (We also eventually moved to the Monolith speakers)

As the listening progressed, he kept turning the dials up a little here and there (with me following behind and by ear adjusting the left/right levels!). We listened to several tapes, from modern blues, to Hendrix, to Madonna. I found absolutely nothing wrong with the amps.

But I also didn't hear a ZMA killer.

I told Steve this flat out. That's when he reminded me that it doesn't yet have the UFO or Jupiter caps and whatever else. Plus he pointed out the amps honesty. As we went from tape to tape, the true nature of each recording came through. No, I'm not talking super-micro-resolution or absolute transparency - just an honest reproduction of what it was given. Basically, this amp (to me) some of the ZMA's "just turn it on and don't worry about it" reliability of what was going to come out. This makes sense, because like I said...I found absolutely *nothing* wrong with these amps. I didn't feel like they were running out of steam, I didn't feel like they were lacking bass, or blurring mids, or damping high end...they just *were*.  I also noticed that they didn't sound like Zen amp. Or a typical Decware amp in general. You know how everything from the Zen to the Rachel to the Torii has some of the same DNA in them; they are Decware amps at heart.  I didn't hear that lineage with the monos - the tube and the circuit are different enough, that they are far off cousins. They do everything you expect from a Decware amp, but they don't have the core sound.  But they also aren't weird aliens from planet OTL either!

I told Steve - that to me, these amps need to keep everything he's got going on right now: the big (not boomie) bass, the SET sound that doesn't run out of steam, and the honesty that I absolutely hear in this amp....but he needs to have that transparency and resolution of the Zen amp. To this Steve nodded sagely, and turned to me with his impish grin and said "you'll have to come back in another month or so and give it another listen - we'll see if the circuit stays the same"


So there it is right now - IMHO, it's not a ZMA killer, but it's something special and right up there at the ZMA caliber. I really hope Steve has (at least) UFO  transformers  dropped in the next time I stop by. If that pulls that last bit of resolution that I was hoping to hear...DONE!

Thanks Eric, great impression. Look forward to what you think in another month or so. Maybe, with UFO and/or Jupiter Caps, etc.... .

Quote:


Unfortunately no - that one in the first photo was the one I was hoping was built and ready for me to listen to. But it obviously wasn't that far built yet. I'll stop by in another month or six weeks or something, and see if Steve has made any changes to the Monos, and hopefully spend some time with JR.

After our last CDApS meet, where we had a nice lineup of Decware amps that we went through; I have a little better understanding (and appreciation) of what each amp does. And each one *does* something different or better than the others. I said this to Steve as well. I still love my Zen, but I keep running it out of steam (ProggRob's CKCS as well). If I could get that sound, scaled up in the high teens or early twenties - I'd be a very happy man, and that would rival, but not replace the ZMA. Steve  was pretty much like  well that's what I'm trying to do here with the monos.

I think Steve would agree - the ZMA is still the one to beat.

That said....

He has this old Zen on the wall in the shop - literally bolted to the wall, that he uses for testing or something. He kept saying "that turd on the wall there". LOL It was a Zen that just didn't sound right or something, a kick-around beater. Well, it has the new UFO transformers in it, and he flat out said "that turd on the wall there, is my new reference - right now I don't know what sounds better, that turd or the monos".

Boiled down - Steve is really happy with these UFO transformers. Changing his mindset has allowed him to take these amps up to another level.

Which of course brought me to asking if he could then do it for my ZMA - especially me being the detail freak that I am. And he said that he's not sure the guy who winds these (custom spec'd transformers) can even wind something that big!  Well Crap.  But then he alluded to that if the UFO uplifts everything he puts it into, he'd simply have to consider an upgraded spec transformer for the ZMA.

So, food for thought.  All I see are great amps all around, and I really like the idea of him being able to so easily make them better across the board.  

LR,

Thanks for your inputs. It's all very exciting!

I'm personally amazed at how Steve can come up with designs that challenge all these preconceptions about true Triode tube SET's with Triode wiring, Push-Pull and now even Ultralinear designs that can compete at the same level. This, to me, is testament to his extraordinary design and prototyping skills.

Of course each amp has its own personality stemming from tube characteristics and how these are enhanced by clever, synergistic circuit design tweaks to accommodate the peculiar traits of the tube complements. This is part of the fun, I guess, both for Steve and us, possible in part due to all his technical knowledge, but mostly due to his great set of ears, experience and his willingness to voice things to the limit.

I'm hoping for an affordable Ultralinear design so I may be able to have two excellent flavors in my modest stable. I'm positive about beefing up the Mini, so that is a fact. I just want to wait a bit for  Ultralinear news and decide which one comes first. Steve spoke about 30 days down the road, so I can afford that wait while Yggy and the rest of the stuff gets here.

Toys, toys ...

Does anybody know if anything is happening with these monoblocks?

Here's a sketch of a possible chassis layout.  No guarantee it will stay this way... too soon to commit.  This particular design uses a glass chimney around the output tube with forced air flowing up and around the tube to keep the chassis at room temperature.  Presently the prototype is accomplishing this goal without a fan which is the ultimate goal.



So I'll keep you posted as always.

Cheers,

Steve

Give me the hole size for the tubes and I'll knock the plate out tomorrow morning! Will a water jetted cut give you a good enough finish? Lol

Thanks to Steve for answering so quickly and with a lot of info. I guess i will want this amp aswell, and I have one amp from earlier, so i hope i will be allowed to buy one, if i find the money that is.. Im afraid it will be expensive. The good thing is the fact that i have the time to save up...