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Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments? (Read 82864 times)
Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #100 - 01/14/15 at 20:26:34
 
I thought that $10k thing was about OTL amps, not single ended monos.

I was imaginting more like the Zen Select monoblocks, except using the Russian fighterplane tubes.

I'm totally guessing, but I would figure something like that would be $1200-$1500 each.

A bit rich for my blood, but those tubes could output 15 watts, plus or minus a little. So imagine single ended 15 watt monoblocks!!

Now imagine those driving Elcaminos!!


yeah, i was too busy with work to call Steve yesterday, and certainly didn't have time to swing by. Maybe next week I can call and/or visit.
I still need to have him look at my little Zen amp, which has developed a bit of a buzz. I'm hoping it's just a flaky tube, but I'm worried it's something more. I want to start using it with the Zu Omens to get a low watt feel for the speakers.
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mark58
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #101 - 01/14/15 at 20:42:57
 
LR,  you're right...the 10K was for the OTL Amp.  On the speculated price for the new 15 WPC Monoblocks.  Steve sold the  2 WPC Zen Signature Monoblocks for $2300 a pair without options back when mine were made in 2008.  In their life they've had a few mods including bees wax caps.  Anyway,  I would think Steve's new creation would sell for much more than you think.  But if there's a relative bargain price at introduction, I might pick up a pair.  My Omega Alincos at 93dB and 8 ohms could benefit from just a bit more juice...not that I'm complaining about them when paired with the 2 wpc  SE84ZSMs.  Mark.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/monos.htm


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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #102 - 01/15/15 at 04:38:17
 
Ouch, yeah, that makes me think these will be closer to the $1500 each range. More then I'd want to pay, but I know I like those tubes. And if it has the SET magic Steve is known for...it would be a great crossover product.
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beowulf
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #103 - 01/15/15 at 06:18:17
 
Maybe wishful thinking on my part as well, but Steve's amps tend to go higher per wattage.  There seems to be a hole in his lineup price and wattage wise between the Mini Torii @ $1795 and Torii @ $3499 (before options of course).  If they cost more than a Torii I won't be able to swing them so I'm keeping my finger crossed.  

These are probably the perfect fit for those who have efficient speakers (but not horn efficient), such as 93db and higher and use them for more than listening to music (I use mine for music and movies) and as an example my Taboo can do music to neighbor complaining volume levels but for movies it runs out of steam a little too early for my tastes (especially quiet dialog scenes for some reason), so these are already my dream amps and I haven't even heard them yet. Grin
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Fireblade
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #104 - 01/15/15 at 12:08:31
 
There's definitely a need for a teen-watt powered Triode SET amp, not only because of the evident amp lineup gap, but also because the speaker lineup is lacking choices on the 95-100 dB sensitivity range. A higher powered SET amp would take advantage of the otherwise excellent borderline high sensitivity speakers in Decware's offering.

The price must be consistent with this niche, of course, but I assume a scaling up (with different tubes and trannies, but same topology) of the Super Zen, may be quite affordable (i.e., just under USD 1,500).

Edit: Think of it, I underestimated the big jump from 2.3 watts and, say, 13 watts on the potential new SET. Therefore, trannies are going to be significantly larger than the original, probably pushing final price closer to USD 2,000.
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Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #105 - 01/15/15 at 12:16:41
 
My guess is the cost will be about 2500 for a stereo amp or pair of monoblocks. We'll see! I can see a place for it in the lineup, but it's not tempting me.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Luis
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #106 - 01/16/15 at 13:08:25
 
I´d love to see a ZMA version of the SE34!! A SET mystery amp or so... not so sure I could pay it though  :)
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Palomino
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #107 - 01/16/15 at 22:28:34
 
I reread the thread and I don't think you will see a SET like Rachael with these MIG tubes.  Steve said earlier that there is not way to measure the tubes without building a custom contraption so matching tubes would be difficult.  Thus the monos.

The box I saw on the bench was wider than the traditional Zen monos.  Not because of the capacitors and PTP wiring necessarily.  It has a massive toroidal transformer.

I am not sure that Steve gives too much weight to how it fits into his product line based on what I have heard him say and also heard from others.  He's going to build it and if its good enough he'll release it and price it to have a margin and let the product line chips fall where they may.

As long as we are guessing, I'm going with $3K per pair.  I hope for less, but think $3K will be practical (agreeing with Fireblades comment about transformer).
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #108 - 01/17/15 at 00:27:00
 

There's been threads in several forums about making a tube tester for these tubes. If Steve got serious, I'm sure he's got the skill to build a tube tester/burner for the 6C33C.  It would cost as much, or more then building a big amp though.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/185857-6c33c-b-tube-tester.html

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #109 - 01/17/15 at 00:31:45
 
Amplitrex has a tube tester that has a 6C33C adapter, but it's an expensive unit, and I'm unsure if it burns in and tests like Steve would need. I know he's super thorough with his tube testing.

http://www.amplitrex.com/adapters.html

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #110 - 01/19/15 at 00:58:04
 
I'm ordering the pair, the day they become available.

By no means, would I sell my:  CKC, SE84CS, CSP3 an ZMA. My children can sell them when I am deceased. If, they don't keep them for themselves.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #111 - 02/05/15 at 05:30:06
 
Hi everyone,

Just an update...  I've been balls deep in development of several new things... and the light at the end of this tunnel is getting very bright!

I'm working on the 6C33C mono's having prototyped the first working model and now building the mate to it.  No, let me rephrase that.  Having prototyped the first 16 working models and doing relentless A/B testing I have found a sound that's getting me off pretty hard with just one channel.  Within a week or so I'll be listening to a matched pair to see if this is likely to become a product or not.

Right now I'm listening to the Torii MK5.  I found it impossible to improve the MK4 any further so I had to do something extreme.  The result so far is so positive I'm not sure where it puts the ZMA or the new Mono's...  it's definitely not the same old Torii!  Out of everything this is what I'm probably the most excited about because it was long overdue and pretty much unexpected.  The test equipment and tools in my lab have gotten so good that I feel empowered.  Treat your lab well and it will return the favor.

Admittedly it is also exciting to know that with the new ZDSD player/ recorder, all who purchase one will hear what a Decware amplifier is suppose to sound like.  I know this because I'm getting forgetful and have developed a bad habit of leaving my personal SD cards in the machines when I ship them out Wink

Also, I have done a winter's worth of R&D on the Decware Sound Mats that you will see soon on the site. An affordable floor bounce mat that makes a big difference in midrange quality.  Even and especially on carpet.

We've also prototyped a monoblock that weights 47 lbs and uses a single  KT150 tube as an adversary via our in house amp wars with the 6C33C mono.

It's all really quite a lot better than drugs... this hobby is Smiley

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jorgen
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #112 - 02/05/15 at 09:14:19
 
Forum updates from Steve are like drugs.. . Give a little tease and you all know we will come back for more. I thought I might be reaching for a pair of monos, but then, a new Torii..hmm this might be a difficult choice. Im calling my employer right now asking for a pay raise, i need more money to pay for my nocturnal habits
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #113 - 02/05/15 at 11:13:44
 
I'm beginning to have an adverse reaction to them! I love what I have and can't afford to upgrade and the temptations can be unsettling. Really, as much as this forum seems to be about computer audio, high efficiency speakers and rock music more and more. . . I'm less and less its target reader as I'm less interested in these things than most. When time crunches (as it will soon for me) I may be here less, which will help with the unsettling feeling I get from all of Steve's new products.

It's great that Steve is learning and growing the product line and I'm sure the sounds are amazing! I'm just glad that I have the amazing level of sound I have and know that I have to stop the carousel and enjoy the music.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #114 - 02/05/15 at 14:30:42
 
I'm booking the Hampton Inn early, to be at Decfest this year.

Torii MK5
6C33C Mono's
47lb KT150 vs. 6C33C
Sound Mats


Thanks for posting Steve. Please, do leave one of your SD cards in my ZDSD player. Smiley  I so look forward to hooking it up direct to my ZMA via Transport/CD/Up-sampling/your Output Stage. Then, enlightening myself to its other capabilities in due time.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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DBC
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #115 - 02/05/15 at 15:01:13
 
I had written a while back about my very positive experience using Arualex isolation platforms to decouple my subs & mains from the listening room floor. I'm not sure if the Decware Floor Mat Steve mentions is similar in concept or something different ???

In any event I thought this video was a very effective demonstration of the effect of speaker isolation / decoupling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvOjMbrJwDY
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
Room #2: Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CS amp, Omega Super 3i Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 12's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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Archie
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #116 - 02/05/15 at 16:19:57
 
I think that I'm with Lon on this.  Although Steve is both an audio and marketing genius, there is a fine line between making someone want more and making them feel dissatisfied with what they already have.  If new and better is too frequent then why get anything new when the next new will be better?
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ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #117 - 02/05/15 at 16:26:40
 
I thought the mat was going to be more like a "magic rug for audiophiles." Smiley
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #118 - 02/05/15 at 16:29:04
 
I thought the mat was going to be more like a "magic rug for audiophiles." Smiley
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Archie
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #119 - 02/05/15 at 16:31:57
 
Or a prayer rug to kneel on while we pray to our audio idols!
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #120 - 02/05/15 at 16:48:58
 

Damnit Steve! And - Awesome!

I may have to swing by next week and see what's going on!  :)
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #121 - 02/05/15 at 17:04:37
 
Don't be bogarting on my #0001 LR!  heheee.........

Archie & Lon, guys, I could happily live with my System below to my end of days. However, it looks pretty certain the Torii MK5 is going to happen an will see if Steve puts the 6C33C Mono-blocks out or KT150 Mono's instead. Nothing in my below System will be departing....but, one of these three will be coming in!  Sweet! Part of my rotation with my ZMA, yaaa....don't ya know... .

First, my ZDSD my friends........ .  I'm flying the friendly sky's to a warmer clim' for some time'.....so I'll report back on the ZDSD at the end of February. I won't have it in here till after the 22nd.... .


Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922 / E88CC for input tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 in A12 an B12 inputs)
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
Vintage Polk SDA1 Speakers in Stereo (91db)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Front End an CSP3 Regenerated/116, 118 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (w/NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) & Decware Super Zen CKC...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

Decware New SET Mono's pending, either 6C33C's or KT150's
Decware Torii MK5 pending too........ .
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #122 - 02/05/15 at 17:34:34
 
I'm glad you can do that Larr. I can't afford to any longer, and I'm overjoyed with what I have now. Just like I don't like to rotate people in and out of my life, I don't like rotating amps in and out of a system, or speakers, I find what I like and sit back and enjoy. (Just like tonight I'm going to sit back and enjoy being with Lucy!)

Enjoy the warmer weather!
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #123 - 02/05/15 at 19:59:15
 
Fortunately Lon, I have a few things to sell (not my Decware). Even though I might part with my CKC only. Other than the ZDSD and one of the three Amps Steve has pending....I'm out of the market for a long time. If I can't enjoy and be grateful for what I have...then shame on me.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #124 - 02/05/15 at 21:19:24
 

Yeah, I too don't have the money for any further upgrades. Unless Steve takes me up on sweeping floors or teaches me how to wire up his amps (I'm good with a soldering iron actually). I suppose I could sell another hobby to further fund this one, but I'm quite happy with the ZMA. The MK V would have to be one groundbreaking amp to lure me away.

Funny about the KT150 - I was talking with Dave L about helping me build an amp based on the KT150. I really wanted to try something like a Zen or Zen Mono with that tube.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #125 - 02/05/15 at 23:08:02
 
Don't forget guys like me who can't afford the latest and greatest, but I feed the chain by buying your used amps and giving you a down-payment on the new stuff.

I applaud new releases.  Can't wait for Decfest.  Loving my MK III right now, but when a used ZMA comes up in a year or so, I'm on it.

It's the way of the Decware eco-system.  It's great that there are ready buyers out there wanting to join.

The only problem I have is I bought a new-used MK III, but can't emotionally let go of my Rachael.  I think I need counseling.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Syd
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #126 - 02/05/15 at 23:33:19
 
Dr. Marky here Pal.
   Introduce Rachael to the Mk 3. Both amps hooked up via a Decware switchbox.

Steve must be due a holiday in the sun somewhere. Up to his balls is right. Did he say 16 prototypes ?
Bounce mat lol, great name. I`m getting a pair.
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Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s, Arcam CD33, Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains substation, M & K subwoofer, Belden 8402 interconnects.
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Stefan
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #127 - 02/06/15 at 05:47:29
 
Bummer, and I just got my new Torii IV...
It only got 20hrs on it yet, but I'm surprised how good the B&W 805 can actually sound! Will be interesting to hear the comparison to the ERRx I have on order.
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- Stefan
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Rega rp6, Lounge Audio phono pre-amp, Lonely Raven PC, T+A DAC 8 DSD, ZBIT, ZROCK2+25th, SE84UFO25, Torii IV, Denon AVC-1SE, Infinity IRS Beta, Tannoy Cheviot, ERRx, Tiny Radials, Woo WA-3, Sennheiser HD800S
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Fireblade
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #128 - 02/06/15 at 11:57:38
 
Exciting stuff! I still think an integrated SET with wattage in the teens would make waves in this community.  Same magic sound, more affordable and flexible device ... The Decware philosophy of yesterday?
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Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #129 - 02/06/15 at 14:18:35
 
I actually have two Rachael's Marky.

I legitimately "need" one for a second system.  Its the other than starts to place me in the hording camp.

I do like the idea of a switchbox for comparo
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #130 - 02/06/15 at 14:37:40
 

And here all I have is an "old" ZMA.  :)

I'm looking forward to hearing your tweaked system Palo.

Which speakers are you using? The El Camino that I broke in for you? Smiley

I think it's also time you come over for a listen on the Blue Zu.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #131 - 02/06/15 at 17:35:21
 
I think you need to trade up to one of Steve's new wunder-amps  ;)

El Caminos will be tonight now that I am done fiddlin'

I do want to hear the Blue Zu.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #132 - 02/07/15 at 19:35:27
 
Quote:
there is a fine line between making someone want more and making them feel dissatisfied with what they already have.


I'd like to speak to this...  there is a VERY fine line between making someone want more and making them feel dissatisfied with what they already have. Any time there is a new product or update for an existing product I feel lots of stress knowing this is going to be the common interpretation.

Believe it or not, updates are never planned. They are accidental discoveries that happen as a result of continual probing and wonderment.  

It's important to understand I have never once updated one of our products because I wanted to make it sound better! If I thought it could sound better, I would have never released it in the first place.

Let me use the TORII as an example...

Original TORII (blue) was updated because the original design was flawed.  It required output transformers that were matched out past 100KHz to work properly (it took two on each side) and there is no way to measure an output transformer accurately that high in frequency.  On average I had to build and test three amps just to get one that I could sell.  It wasn't worth it.

Torii MKII (black with the back lit Decware logo) solved these problems by going to a conventional transformer design, and an enlarged chassis that made it possible to improve the layout and reduce heat.

Torii MK III(white) Another few hundred amps down the road and enough was learned to further improve the amp by simplifying the ground buss which dropped the noise floor, made building it a smoother experience and made it more UPS proof by increasing the impact G load to 70G's before part leads would bend or move.

Torii MK IV(black) Was motivated by the desire to change the whole line from white (that showed scratches) to black finishes that don't scratch. Any time you make a new chassis little things are bumped around to improve spacings and accommodate any mods or features you've been wishing for like increasing the impact tolerance to 90 G's.

Of course with each revision we tried to make the sound a little better, but really the correct term is "a little faster". This is largely determined by choice of coupling caps, and since good sounding DAC's have become more affordable each year, it made it possible to increase the speed of the amps in small increments. This is of course risky because the amp can become too revealing or put another way, less forgiving risking a loss of musicality.  Slightly slower is always safer.

Our original Zen amp was upgraded a year or so into the game (1999) because so many people who purchased one were putting faster caps in it and doing other mods that frankly ruined the signature of the amp...  Something that took me over 3 years to perfect.  So I decided if they want a modded zen amp, I'll offer a modded zen amp that is done correctly, and we did.  It was called the "Select".  Was it better than the original amp which we continued to sell, no.  It was faster.  To a guy with an expensive source and cables, it was better.  To a guy with a typical mid-fi CD player it was worse.

So you see, "making someone want more" has never been the motivation for any updates. And thinking that each new model sounds so much better than the previous that you have to get one would be in error.  My advise is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

The TORII has always been a very unique amplifier. It attempts to make a non-linear pentode linear without the two requirements needed to accomplish that - which are ultra-linear output transformers or negative feedback. The penalty with this is that current follows impedance and some speakers are less compatible than others. Granted it's only about 1 in 30 pair but having built a worse case scenario speaker for the TORII as a test device I am reminded every day that the amp could be better by being compatible with more speakers.

That really means that anyone owning a TORII who has speakers that the amp likes, will see little to no benefit from updating, and would be going from a well seasoned amplifier to a brand new one that has to be burned in again.  

The TORII MKIV was tweaked as far as it could be meaning that there was nothing left I could do to make it sound any better.  It's peaked out, as we like to say.

So what was the reason to come out with a MKIV?  

The TORII has always been a little tweaky. The adjustments it has are placed there to deal with the tweaky nature of the amp relative to the speakers you paired it with. The adjustments simply make the amp more compatible with a wider range of speakers.

Having owned the ZMA for a couple years, an amp with not one adjustment to change the sound, I have noticed that I've never wanted to adjust the sound! It just sounds right all the time. Reason for this is because the ZMA is far less picky about the speakers you pair with it.

Quite by accident, which is usually the case, I discovered a way to make the TORII less picky about speakers without changing the output design of the amplifier - which is what defines it as a TORII. It's one of those things that as a designer you've been wishing you could do since the amp's inception.

To see how well the MK IV fairs in this test I currently have no adjustments of any kind on the amp and am rolling tubes to see how it behaves with each. This is as far as I've gotten with it, so no point in starting a barrage of questions about it. Let me spend some time with it to make sure it's right. I don't want a TORII MK 6!

If anyone who has received a TORII MKIV recently feels anxiety about the MKV just drop me an email and we'll see what we can work out.

Steve



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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #133 - 02/07/15 at 22:08:56
 
Steve,

Thanks for that clarification.  As always, I need to take a few deep breaths and gain some perspective.  For my system, at this point anyway, my room is the weak link.  I'm sure that I don't speak only for myself when I say that I am grateful that you continue to tweak and innovate!  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #134 - 02/08/15 at 00:54:14
 
Steve, you're the best! Keep up with your great work and correct attitude, we welcome both!

My Mini Torii keeps amazing me, and is the only component I'm sure will always be with me. That does not rule out a Torii MK'X' some day, as a more powerful alternating companion to the Mini in my setup.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #135 - 02/08/15 at 05:27:47
 
I am blown away by my MKIV. Part of this is that the whole system is tweaked and easily tweak able, but here the MKIV controls work great, so I don't need the amp to be more polite with speakers. And judging from the MKIII to MKIV improvements in my system, I bet you have a few other MKV tricks up the sleeve Steve!

Wink

EDIt: But it was the MKIII that made me have to learn to manage excess bass in my system/room Smiley
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #136 - 02/08/15 at 06:48:47
 
Steve,  once the Mark V is finalized, do you see being able to upgrade a MKIII to a V?

Thanks,
Greg
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #137 - 02/08/15 at 13:44:59
 
My SE84B is already the fastest amp I own. Ill be sending it in soon for upgrades and a checkover so I cant imagine a faster sound, should be interesting.  So many cool things going on here.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #138 - 02/08/15 at 16:17:47
 
I love reading Steve's posts about his making revised or upgraded product because it actually is better, not that it has a new faceplate on it. It has taken me almost 10 years since I got my first Zen SE84CS (still have it) to my new Rachael and ZP3. I got SO tired of the merry go round of components, the lusting after something better. I now have better. I have  ads posted for my speakers and other odd & ends to fund new Decware speakers and a new DAC but have spend the last four months just enjoying my Decware amp and phonostage. I like Decware progress but love opening my closet door in the morning, turning on Rachael and ZP3 and trying to find what I want to listen to. Keep up the hard work Steve and I keep up the happy listening. Best to all, Chris.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #139 - 02/11/15 at 16:59:51
 
hrider,  I second that !
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #140 - 02/13/15 at 15:26:08
 
Hd, I hear that. It took me 11.5 years to buy another Decware Amp. I too, was so happy with my SE84CS. I still am happy with it. The last 3 years I've expanded with more Decware. However, the spicket needs to be shut off soon and continue the enjoyment (only).

...after the ZDSD, I should have next week and maybe a KT150 design from Steve.....if he releases it.  

If not, I might pick up a Dennis Had (retired/Inspire) KT150. However, it looks a little weak....so maybe not.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #141 - 02/13/15 at 20:54:31
 
Quote:
Steve,  once the Mark V is finalized, do you see being able to upgrade a MKIII to a V?

Thanks,
Greg



Yes any MKIII or MKIV will be able to be updated to a MKV when it comes out.

Thanks,

Steve
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #142 - 02/13/15 at 22:50:37
 

Paging Palomino! Come in Palomino!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #143 - 02/13/15 at 23:01:35
 
I am here enabler extraordinare.  

I am enjoying my MKIII for the moment.  I find it to be an extraordinary amp even though I'm a generation or two behind.

The only thought entering my mind is replacing the VCAPS with beeswax.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #144 - 02/14/15 at 01:27:08
 
This makes a hard choice ... the new SET monos with all it's SET qualities, but which only a handful of speakers are efficient enough for them or the new Torii which is closing the performance gap between it and the ZMA and which opens up a more broader speaker selection and also gives some over head power wise.

Considering that the Torii only lost out for the Tone Audio Amp Of The Year to its big brother the ZMA makes the choice even harder if the new Torii has really kicked it up a couple notches or more.

Either way it's good to have choices and be a part of a great audio company such as Decware!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #145 - 02/14/15 at 01:48:43
 
Speaking as one who owns both a Torii MK IV and a 2008 pair of Modified 2.3 WPC Zen Signature Monoblocks,  Go for the Torii, if you can only have one.  Like you said, with the Torii you can choose from probably a hundred speakers and with the 2 WPC SET there probably aren't more than ten companies that make compatible speakers...probably more like a half dozen.  But why choose...get both!  But if the new SET monos have 15 WPC or so...the decision becomes tougher, doesn't it.  Mark.

If I were ordering a Torii again, I'd get dual gain/volume controls.  Of course if you know you'll use a preamp, these would not be necessary.  I find being able to adjust each channel differently a value on some recordings in my room.  So I have to use a CSP3...not that this is a hardship.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #146 - 02/14/15 at 05:44:41
 
10 roger on the being able to adjust right/left levels.  I too use a preamp just for that reason... and also, just as important, so I can control the volume with a wireless remote and not by getting up & down out of my chair every 3-4 minutes when the music selection changes and the volume needs to be adjusted to get it "just right".
I went thru about an 18 month process of trying to find a preamp that I liked sonically and had the features I demanded.  Well... I never exactly found one - exactly!  So now I have three preamps.  Two SS and one all tube unit.  The interesting thing I learned during this journey, was the discovery that, by swapping tubes around in my Torii, based on which preamp I was using, I could basically arrive at the same sonic destination.  So.. I need to settle on one preamp and sell the other two.  Problem is, I have trouble parting with equipment "I like", regardless of whether or not I'm actually using it, nor if I need it!  Audiophile nervosa is terminal!  Lord help me.....

I believe I have read the Steve is working on a new preamp.  Please, please, please Steve... build it with remote control of the volume.  I don't need any other functions available on the remote, but I demand remote control of the volume.  If you want to sell a boat-load of Decware preamps - make remote volume at least an option...  I'll be the first one to "pre-order" your new preamp if it has remote volume control.

fellow Decwarians...lets stand together - perhaps we should start a thread for the new preamp and see if we can get Steve to accept our input.  What do you say?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #147 - 02/14/15 at 09:32:49
 
maddog07 wrote on 02/14/15 at 05:44:41:
I believe I have read the Steve is working on a new preamp.  Please, please, please Steve... build it with remote control of the volume.  I don't need any other functions available on the remote, but I demand remote control of the volume.  If you want to sell a boat-load of Decware preamps - make remote volume at least an option...  I'll be the first one to "pre-order" your new preamp if it has remote volume control.

fellow Decwarians...lets stand together - perhaps we should start a thread for the new preamp and see if we can get Steve to accept our input.  What do you say?


I'm with ya ... I have been waiting for a more flexible preamp than the CSPs to come out and remote volume is most important but source switching would be cool as well.  I would also like to see a real balanced option since Steve has been offering it on his amps, with at least 4 sources and an entry level phono stage option as well while I'm wishing. Grin
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #148 - 02/14/15 at 12:52:12
 
I can see a balanced option but adding a remote and combining  a phono stage and preamp in the same box, seems like it would be counter to the whole Zen Culture where simple is better, that Steve espouses.  Mark.

PS...But I do love my remote for the Jolida 100 CD Player  ;)
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #149 - 02/15/15 at 06:26:14
 
Beowoulf I used to be with you on the more affordable phono pre. but after springing for my ZP3 I cant imagine using another one along with my music hall 7.1 its amazing I am spoiled in 3D
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