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ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction (Read 6161 times)
beowulf
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ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
08/20/14 at 08:31:21
 
Coulomb friction is a simplified quantification of the friction force that exists between two dry surfaces in contact with each other. All friction calculations are approximations, and this measurement, which was developed in 1785 by Charles-Augustin de Coulomb as a refinement of Leonardo da Vinci's classical model, is dependent only on the fundamental principles of motion. It assumes that the contact surfaces are fairly uniform and that the coefficient of friction that must be overcome for motion to begin is well-established for the materials in contact. It also accounts for the normal force involving gravitational pull, whether in direct horizontal movement to the normal force or at a vectored incline.

LOL, just read an interesting paper from Star Sound Technologies on the subject and how it applies specifically to audio and video equipment here.

Yes, they have a horse in the race with a technology they developed called Live-Vibe Technology that provide high-speed channels for vibrating resonant energy to locate earth's ground.  None the less very interesting read.

Simply stated, if the vibration is not directed away from the source, it will modulate the source causing the original signal to appear distorted, thus defining the requirement for continuous dissipation of vibration.

Employing isolation techniques, one merely protects one component from interfering with another that it is in direct contact with. Isolation increases the effects of Coulomb friction by building resistance between the mating surfaces. With regards to airborne resonance, isolation principles serve much like the dielectric material in a capacitance device, essentially turning the component into a giant Resonance Capacitor.


What does it all mean?  Their theory is ... since musical instruments resonate to make their sounds, it is better to keep the sound "live" and transfer resonance of the reproducing system as quickly as possible to earth's ground through special vibration methods rather than "deadening" the sound through dampening, absorption and isolation which would be unnatural.  IMO it makes a lot of sense.

What do you guys think?
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seikosha
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #1 - 08/20/14 at 13:49:47
 
What was old is new again.

25 years ago, in audio, they used to call this mechanical grounding and all the theories at the time were just as stated above.  You don't want to damp vibrations, you want to create a complimentary path that allows vibrations to flow out freely away from the components.

Now, I see all sorts of approaches.  Not having tested them all, I have no idea which is the best if any even are.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #2 - 08/20/14 at 15:47:35
 

seikosha beat me to it. This all sounds familiar.

I wish I had a good lab grade accelerometer so I could test damping materials and platforms. I grew up with the theory that you drain the vibrations down to the floor, so it was weird for me to see everyone using maple platforms and brass/sorbithane/magic to absorb/damp vibrations.

Since I don't have fancy testing equipment, I'll just have to use my ears and do some experimenting.

I'm currently working on a 4' tall gear rack that's heavy extruded aluminum legs that will probably be sand filled once I get it into place. And I'm experimenting with different shelf materials. I've already got a 2" maple deck, and a plywood/mdf deck, and I'm working on cutting out a plywood/MDF deck that's lead pellet filled, and one final deck that will be a sand box with plywood or MDF "floating" in the sand. I figure I'll move the amp around till I figure out which deck sounds best, then do the same for my DirectStream, then the PC. If one material sounds best, I'll rebuild the whole rack using just that type of deck.







If anyone has any idea how I can actually measure the vibrations/damping, I'd love to hear about it!
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Archie
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #3 - 08/20/14 at 17:17:48
 
A few months ago I posted a comment on the ZMA forum about vibration isolation platforms that I built to go under my ZP3, CSP3 and ZMA that completely isolated the components from induced vibration from the rack.  Airborne vibration was not addressed.  My observation was that the induced vibration from the rack was the driving factor while induced vibration from the ambient sound was secondary.   My cost was about $5 per platform plus some scrap MDF I had on hand.

If this interests anybody, send me your email address and I'll send a couple of pictures to give you the idea.  My understanding is that there are two ways to deal with vibration.  One is to damp it out (which most try to do with mass, friction and "damping" materials such as sorbothane) and the other is to keep the components from vibrating in the first place (isolation).  The latter is my preferred since resonance is such a powerful force to deal with.  
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ZLC
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #4 - 08/20/14 at 23:01:01
 

The problem with isolation, is that the devices themselves resonate.
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beowulf
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #5 - 08/21/14 at 02:39:04
 
@ LR - exactly, that's the main theory with Sound Star as well.  They figure why not resonate to ground ASAP rather than try to isolate and dampen.  Not too many see dampening or isolation devices on the musician's violin for instance as the decay and reverberation of the instrument are as important as the initial note, so why dampen a set of speakers as they are in a sense a musical instrument as well.
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Archie
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #6 - 08/21/14 at 16:57:59
 
I think that there is a fundamental difference between an amplifier and a musical instrument (I did not advocate isolating speakers).  I don't see any benefit in my amplifiers vibrating.  My point is that rather than stop the vibration after it has begun that it not be allowed to vibrate in the first place.  We want to make music with an instrument so obviously vibration is necessary with that.  Apples and oranges. Or am I  missing something here?  I guess that I wasted my Masters Degree afterall.  My Mother will be very disapointed!
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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beowulf
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #7 - 08/21/14 at 21:15:47
 
@ Archie - I don't think you're missing anything at all, and what you're saying makes sense.

I guess its just different approaches to the same problem.  One approach says if things are going to vibrate, let them vibrate but get rid of the vibration as quickly as possible, whereas the other approach says to prevent them from vibrating in the first place and isolate them.  Which one is the better approach I wouldn't even begin to say as I'm not an engineer or even know where to begin measuring stuff like that.  

I will start investigating this more though as I plan on introducing a few items within my system and try to determine which sounds the best to my ears.  For me it comes down to space since I lease a townhouse and my system is in the living room I don't have the floor or wall space for things such as traps and diffusers.  This pretty much only leaves me with tweaks to play with.
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Archie
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Re: ARGHH, that damn Coulomb Friction
Reply #8 - 08/22/14 at 17:22:18
 
My approach to isolation was to build a simple platform that acts as a vibration filter.  It may be counter intuitive but my amplifiers sit on springs.  The springs have a natural frequency well below the audible range -- say 10 Hz.  Higher frequencies than that can't pass through the platforms into the amps.  Of course, there my be sublte vibrations but they are many times less than the vibrations coming from the stand.  In fact, when I first set up my ZMA, as sent from Decware, I actually got horendous feedback at high volume.  Once I placed it on the platform any sign of feedback was eliminated.  My turntable has it's own isolation feet and I can pound on the shelf that it sits on and get no audible respose through the TT.  

I think that if vibration is not desireable in a component then it is always best to filter it out rather than attenuate it later.  As far as I know there is only isolation and/or damping (friction into heat) to deal with vibration.  Anything else is Voodoo magic.  Once vibration gets into a component, some "damage" is already done.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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