Forums - Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)

P K

Seasoned Member

Posts: 219

Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
06/27/14 at 13:55:48

Wow, what a great two hours with Steve Deckart.

I highly recommend a trip to Peoria IL, on the Illinois River.

However you will need a good GPS to find Steve, but once you arrive and through two secret unmarked doors your eyes will get really big. There are some secret projects that will dazzle you.

I learned the following about the tubes for the ZP3,

The first tube slot at the front in the most important tube, it is the input tube running in stereo from one tube.

The second slot for the 12ax7 tube is the output tube. This tube does NOT need to match the input tube, it may be an entirely different brand (this will drive me a little crazy, because I like to tube roll, and I have a bunch of single 12ax7 tubes sitting around).

The third slot for a 12au7 is a tube buffer and must be a 12au7.

I am now trying a RCA 5814a Triple Mica Blackplate in the 12au7 slot. It would distort after it warmed up. I found a solution, I replaced the OA3 with a OB3 (Steve tells me it lowers the amount of output as you go from OA3 to OD3). It seems the OA3 over powered the 5814a tube.

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Syd Seasoned Member Posts: 1534	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #1 - 06/27/14 at 15:21:51 ....you learn something every day ! Cheers P K, I have an old Tung-Sol 12ax7 which was looking for a partner, now I can prise one of my Sylvania x3 micas out ( either one ! ) and see how the Tung-Sol performs.
Back to top	Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s, Arcam CD33, Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains substation, M & K subwoofer, Belden 8402 interconnects. IP Logged

mark58

Seasoned Member

Posts: 5647

Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
Reply #2 - 06/27/14 at 15:28:41

PK, great info. Did you ask him about 5751s in the 12AX7 spot?

I have been running a RCA Blk PL Triple Mica 5814A for quite a while and haven't had any problem with distortion. I've used it with 12AX7s and 5751's of various Brands while using an OA3 and 5Y3G rectifier...both RCA.

Now, knowing that the one and two position 12AX7 spots are independent of each other, the number of possible combinations to be explored has dramatically increased...Tube rolling Hell! or is it Heaven?! Mark.

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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare

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P K

Seasoned Member

Posts: 219

Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
Reply #3 - 06/27/14 at 16:26:01

Steve told me that he has not tried the 5751 tubes in the 12ax7 slot.

But Steve will always tell you to try it and let your ears tell you what is best.

I found the GE 5-Star Blackplates 5751 tubes to be too noisy in the ZP3.

I have gone back to NOS Telefuken 12X7 RIBBED PLATES.

Remember each tube in the ZP3 is driving two channels so the two sections or side of EACH tube must be a close match

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mark58

Seasoned Member

Posts: 5647

Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
Reply #4 - 06/27/14 at 16:36:25

Peter, In the past I had distortion with the ZP3...I forget with what tubes but when I changed the rectifiers in the Torii MK IV from RCA 5Y3GTs to RCA 5U4GBs the distortion was mostly resolved. Now I'm using Ken Rad WWII 5U4Gs and don't have problems with noise or distortion. Since you have had problems with tubes in both the 12AU7 and 12AX7 spots, you might want to consider tube changes in your Amp or the rectifier in your ZP3. I would hate to think you'll miss out on using 5751s or 5814s when it could be another tube causing the problem. Mark.

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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare

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P K Seasoned Member Posts: 219	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #5 - 06/27/14 at 19:32:58 I AM NOW TRYING THE CHINESE 5U4G TUBE THAT CAME FROM DECWARE. THE 5814A NOW SOUNDS GREAT, WITH LITTLE DISTORTION. I WILL BE SENDING BACK THE NOS 54UG FOR A REPLACEMENT. PETER
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Syd Seasoned Member Posts: 1534	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #6 - 06/27/14 at 20:06:02 We`ll have to start a "Dream Team" league for the 3 signal tubes in the ZP3. I must say that the Tung-Sol no 1, Sylv 3xmic no2, Mullard long plate D in the au7 slot are kicking.
Back to top	Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s, Arcam CD33, Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains substation, M & K subwoofer, Belden 8402 interconnects. IP Logged

mark58 Seasoned Member Posts: 5647	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #7 - 06/28/14 at 14:03:58 Marky...sounds like a good idea...this morning my line up for the one, two and three spots are.... 1) Sylvania Gold Brand Triple Mica Black Plate 5751 2) 1957 RCA Black Plate 12AX7 3) RCA Triple Mica Black Plate 5814A
Back to top	"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils; The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare IP Logged

P K

Seasoned Member

Posts: 219

Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
Reply #8 - 06/28/14 at 14:45:28

Slot 1: NOS GE Triple Mica 5751 or NOS Telefunken 12ax7 Ribbed Plate (a tie?)

Slot 2: A lot of NOS Mystery 12az7 tubes (each with a different sound), I will let you know the final result)

Slot 3: NOS RCA Triple Mica Blackplate 5814a

along with a NOS OA3 coke bottle tube (Sylvania Green Label, Clear Glass), a very cool looking tube that was a gift from Steve Deckart during my visit to Decware.

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P K Seasoned Member Posts: 219	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #9 - 06/28/14 at 17:23:09 Update on the second 12ax7 slot: I have found that each old stock mystery 12ax7 tube from my tube stash has a different sound. I am in the process of picking the one with the lowest distortion while providing great sound.
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P K Seasoned Member Posts: 219	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #10 - 06/28/14 at 18:18:35 It looks like at the end of my testing it is NOS 12ax7 Teles at both the first 12az7 slot and the second 12ax7 slot. Back to my original favorites. I even tried the GE Triple Mica 5751 Blackplates in the second 12x7 slot.
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P K Seasoned Member Posts: 219	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #11 - 07/10/14 at 20:41:37 I have gone to an EZ80 (Bugle Boy Made for Amperex by Mullard?) in my Mini Torii, along with an OA2 in the OC2 slot, these changes, along with Mazda 6V6GT (Military from the 1950's) have made the ZP3 very very smooth.
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Syd

Seasoned Member

Posts: 1534

Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
Reply #12 - 07/10/14 at 21:28:26

I put the nos Tung-Sol 12ax7a in the first slot, Sylv x3 mic 2nd and a Mullard longplate 12au7 and the Tung-Sol made the treble become very detailed. So much so that poor old Peter Gabriels esses became sibilant and splashy on a Genisis album. Sounded funny. That was the only album it happened on and I got rather took with the extra detail with no loss anywhere else. Next day it all sounded balanced and ok.
Now I`ve swapped the 1 and 2 positions around and like it better..I think.
Well, enough so that I think I`m sorted for a good while.
I played Santana Abraxas earlier today with a touch more volume and Santanas guitar sounded like it had a bit of snarl I hadn`t noticed before.

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Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s, Arcam CD33, Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains substation, M & K subwoofer, Belden 8402 interconnects.

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LeFischer

Verified Member

Posts: 7

Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory)
Reply #13 - 07/11/14 at 22:34:49

Hi guys!

Great to follow your conversation!

I have talked to Steve about 5751 tubes for my ZP3 a few weeks ago. He said that the specs are o.k., so these tubes are an alternative!
I use in the first and second slot a NOS Tung Sol 5751 (grey plate) with really good results (well balanced, holographic, not too bright). They produce a much more involving music than the Teles 12AX7 (I tried ribbed and smooth plates)
In the third slot, I use a Telefunken smooth plate 12AU7. (good tube, but after your experiences I will try a RCA Triple Mica 5814A)
My rectifier tube is a Brimar 5Z4GY (very detailed)

I am really happy with my combo! I never thought that tubes in a pre phono stage could change the soul of music so deeply. Wink

All the best
Leo

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P K Seasoned Member Posts: 219	Re: Tips From Peoria (a visit to Decware Factory) Reply #14 - 07/13/14 at 15:54:49 in the last two weeks 373 people have viewed this posting!!! Anyone planning a trip to Peoria? Peter
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