Mark, I think you'd like interconnects blending copper and silver. I moved to these from the Decware and man. . . it really improved a lot of my frequency balance issues and got me closer to just slipping into the music itself. (Even moving to all copper interconnects by cryoset got me closer to this state than the Decware ones did).

I have interconnects sitting in boxes in my storage unit that I will probably put up for sale in the near future. And I may even allow you "trying at home opportunities" if you're interested. Let me know.

mark58 wrote on 08/23/15 at 18:00:16:

That's correct Mark, away from the Silver Reference, when I started my journey into interconnect experimentation there were no other Decware interconnects.

I moved to PS Audio xStream Statement and then back to my trusty Tara Lab RSC Reference, and then on to cryoset and then on to a few others but started climbing the ladder of the VooDoo Cable line, first Evolution, then Ultralinear, then two versions of the top of the line, Stradivarius. These are interconnects made with continuous cast copper and silver conductors and are cryo-treated.

Thanks Mark. I find everyone else's impressions of tubes in a component an interesting guide but in truth I think tubes sound differently in each system and room and it's hard to make definitive choices.

A few years ago I bought a grab bag of 12AU and 12AX type tubes, a few dozen, of mixed brands, and I've been going through them for the ZP3. Last night I put in another one, a Sylvania 6189 that the seller claimed was Amperex made in the US. It almost had all that I need, but was just a bit bass light and too sparkly. It may tame and bloom a bit but I'm not patient enough to go through a lot of burn in right now, will work on that later in between listening sessions. I have a few more Amperex and RCA in storage, 12AX7s, so I'll work on rolling some of these into the ZP3 soon. I have so many tubes on hand I'm not going to buy any more for some time, and indeed may thin the herd.

And in order to not be prone to preconception, I tend to not study others' impressions too much especially as they don't often align with my own. Decware owners' impressions mean most to me for obvious reasons!

JD is that thing on radio a Jazz program...what channel?   Mark.

PS...here's what JD is talking about... http://americanroutes.wwno.org/archives/show/938/from-home-page

After being all over the map with tubes in the ZP3 I went back to where I started this last roll binge from: TAD 12AU7 and two TAD 12AX7s, cryo'd from cryoset. To be honest this set is the most dynamic of all the complements I've tried, and a nice neutral tonal balance as well. I'm having a little difficulty getting a centered mono image on mono material, but that's I think the room and I'll keep working on gain and tone controls to dial that in. . . . I move my speakers back to the wall to rest and out to play every day so that's a daily sort of battle. . . .

I really think I'll just leave these TAD tubes in til I get to storage. As TADs have the last few years, they surprise me.

JD, you sound like a multimedia guy like me.  I often will sit in the den and play music while reading and typing on the internet and also watching old movies on TCM muted...I especially like it when there's a black and white one on...even the silent films are wonderful while listening to music.  Mark.

Mark,

+1 on TCM. I really enjoy their movies especially the black and whites!

JD

Okay, the TAD 12AU7 is out and the Siemens is back in.

The TAD is just . . . well. . . it is so clean and crisp that LPs sound like CDs. The Siemens imparts a nice bit of warmth and a whisp of mystery to the imaging and sound staging.

I really hate tube-rolling, just like to find the right balance and not mess with it, sit back and enjoy the music for months. I'm getting there.

forgot to mention that replacing my 1964 rca oa3 with a tungsram oa3 from 1957 made a huge difference. It really helped tighten the sound and bass. I think i mentioned it earlier but these Tungsram 1957 oa3 rectifier tubes kick all my other vr75's butt and it is not even close and they are still cheap.

JD

Quote:


I think that if our TTs aren't getting the spin of the record right to start with that we have no chance of attaining sublime playback regardless of what else we may do.  Next, if induced vibration isn't effectively dealt with -- same result.  I have a hunch that any visco-elastic footer will impart its own vibrational signature to the playback and color the sound in unpredictable ways.  Once you get the spin and vibrational stuff under control what you hear is what's on the record.  After that I guess it's up to the downstream equipment to "tune the sound."  (Over simplified version!)

I've done things backwards with my TT.  Only after significantly upgrading my cart have I attacked the induced vibration issue (didn't know I had one).  It's worked out since now I can really hear the new cart although I bet I'd like my old one better now then before.

I don't have any data to back this up but it's what I hear and what makes sense to me at this point.

Okay, went to storage and came back with a box of tubes. Very different set in now:

0ld RCA bottle type 5Y3 tube
Bottle style RCA OA3
Amperex orange globe 12AX7 in front position
Raytheon 12AX7 in middle position
Siemens 12AU7 (still can't unseat this one, it's got the right warmth)

This complement is just a tad bright, but that's lessening. It has dynamics and a very open sound, lots of vivid imaging.  I am going to try to try to leave this complement in a while. I have one more Amperex 12AX7 I may try in the middle position soon.

I'm back to using TAD KT66. . . just can't take those Russian coin base ones at the moment (and got the quad from Russia in the mail, so two quads!)

One change, and it's been a good one so far.

Telefunken 12AU7
Amperex Bugleboy 12AX7 middle position
Amperex Orange printing 12AX7 front position

The Telefunken in the place of the Siemens has meant a loss of a bit of warmth and bass weight, but an increase in 3Dimensionality and inner detail. Which has led to nice dynamic contrast as well.

Did one last final spell of tube rolling and now I'm sticking a fork in it for a while because it sounds so so good!

'fifties RCA 5V4G
Sylvania OB3 (changing to an 0B3 from an 0A3 was a wise move)
Seimens 12AU7
Two Amperex 12AX7s

Just the right balance between tone and texture. God I love the ZP3!

Also. . . I gave a few records a second wash in the Spin Clean and they are dead quiet when they were crackling a bit before. The Spin Clean
has truly been a good investment, it has amazed me at how restorative it is for my old records.

Apologies for jumping in on this subject with a slightly unrelated posting but I am hoping that someone may find this useful if you have not followed my self build ZP3 saga on the forum. As this is connected to ZP3 tube rolling I felt that it may be good to post it here:

Here is the bit about tube rolling....

"Initially I had some used Mullard ECC 83's whilst I was proving that I could make the ZP3. These sounded pretty good but lacked sparkle (it could be that they were past their best of course!). In the meantime I had read that some people have had good results with Russian 6n2p-EV (Voshkod Rocket brand) valves, so I brought a few to try.
The only problem with using these in a ZP3 is that the heater wiring differs from that on 12AX7's and ECC 83's. To solve this I ordered some extension valve bases (eBay) and I have reworked these to suit.
For any one interested in this, it is a case of removing pin 5 from the bottom of the extension and connecting the position where the valve sits on pin 5 across to pin 9. This needs to be done as the 6n2p-EV does not have an internal centre heater connection to pin 9 (ground on a ZP3) only a screen.
The resulting improvement is very good, bigger sound stage and more "sparkle". Worth a try if anyone is feeling brave in my opinion."

Anyway apologies again for jumping in, hopefully my comments are informative.

All the best

AH

I've had my ZP3 almost a year now and recently have done some tube rolling. This is what I've found based on my system and room. The bolded tubes are what I have found to sound the best.

Rectifier
Mullard GZ32
RCA 5Y3GT
RCA 5V4G

Regulators
Sylvania 0A3
RCA OA3

12AX7
Amperex Bugle Boy
Amperex Medical Grade
RCA Black Plate
Raytheon Black Plate

12AU7
RCA 5814WA
Siemens E82CC

How much this set up cost and where did you get them?

The Tungsram 12AX7`s are very good. With a new job and the World cup I`ve had about 7 hours on them but they are pre burned in apparently. More sophisticated than my previous sound which was from two of anything basically. I have several NOS ( and some used ) AX7`s and a pair of Sylvania x3 micas. Anyway the Tungstrams are the best combo by a way. Very fluidy guitars ( J J Cale has transformed into a super delicate player ). Yes, just a more sophisticated, quality presentation all round. More airy as well. It all makes for better performance from the players. Guess I`m getting into the emotional connect territory so it`s a step up. Very pleased I bought them.

I have never tried it but I would ask Steve before doing it.  There are plenty of 12AU7s, 12AX7s and their equivalents available.

I've tried OA3, C3 & D3 tubes and various ax7's and au7's.  Def. leave v3 an au7 as it is a buffer tube and used for it's low output imp. compared to the ax7.  In the v3 spot I  like a ~60's Organ relabeled tube (Conn, Baldwin, etc).    For the ax7's  I'm currently running a new prod. Genelex B759 (long plate ax7) in v2  and a NOS GE in v1.     I have switched around a lot between various ax7's.   It is def. worth purchasing from a trusted reseller that has the ability to noise grade the ax7's.      Switching the regulator tubes will alter the plate voltage on V1,2,3.  I found it best to listen and evaluate the ax7's first then once I found what suited my tastes I would roll the A,C,D regs and re evaluate.     Also keep in mind that various rectifiers will/can significantly alter the plate voltages as well.

I predict you'll really like it. I didn't use it when I had a ZP3, but it's the best tube I've heard in my ZROCK2s.

I understand wanting to switch fast for a good comparison while the sound is still fresh in your mind. I remember reading that Steve recommends waiting 60 seconds or so to let the electricity dissipate before pulling a tube out. After changing the tube and powering back up, I’d let it warm up for 5 minutes or so before listening.

Great thread and what a great phono preamp!
I’ve rolled countless tubes in my zp3 always chasing perfection. But I’m realizing they all sound fantastic in their own way.
I’ve currently settled on Brimar 5u4g or Cossor fat bottle cv378 for rectifier.
Westinghouse not RCA rebranded 12au7
Hitachi long plate triple mica 12ax7 in middle position
Siemens Valvo short plate 12ax7 in front position.
I was loving a full KenRad setup but they are just too microphonic and I’m constantly chasing the volume knob. Beautiful sound though.
If you’re looking for a fantastic sounding cheap rectifier I’ve had great luck with the 5C3S Svetlana flying C rectifier. They are currently selling like hot cakes. I went with the shiny black plates over the gray. Huge soundstage crystal clear but not annoyingly bright with loads and loads of detail.
Oh man, now I just want to tube roll all day.

Hi everyone,

I would like to sincerely thank everyone on this thread for all of the invaluable information shared.

I am hoping that someone here might be able to help me.

I am currently using a 0.5mv cartridge (1.4 ohm DCR) with a 20x SUT and it sounds absolutely fantastic in my current set up. My current phono stage is set to +40db (it's minimum gain setting). But, I do think that +36 to +38db would provide a better sonic experience with a bit more headroom for the most dynamic peaks.

I have a ZP3 on the way (hopefully before year end) and I am worried the +42 db gain might be a bit too much.

Does anyone know a set of tube compliments for the ZP3  that would bring the overall gain down to +36db - +38db? Would swapping out both 12ax7s for 5751s reduce the gain enough?

Your help will be much appreciated.

Cheers

Hi Edsonic-

Thanks for your reply. I am lucky to be a fan of all music genres, especially when played on vinyl.

The ZP3 will be my first foray into tubes, thus I am trying to read as much as possible on this forum and others before my ZP3 arrives later this year.

If my calculations are correct, given my 0.5mv cartridge and 20x SUT, the stock tube configuration for the ZP3 should have an output of around 1.25 volts.

I guess a better way to pose my initial question is that if I would like to reduce the output of the ZP3 to be around 0.65 - 0.80 volts, is there a possible tube configuration for the ZP3 that could accomplish this lower output without negatively affecting the sound quality?

Your help and expertise is much appreciated.

Thanks