My order for the new Integrated, "Rachel" is seventh on the Q. I note that today according to the Official Decware Amplifier Waiting List the first one in Q is in "testing" status right now. The second one in Q is "on the bench" and I don't mean that in a sports play context. They are assembling it with loving care.

I am now 9 weeks out. I even forgot which base I chose. Luckily the Q lists the base that is ordered. I had ordered the black figured; this is the nicest one for me. I have my pair of Mullard reissue EL34's ready to go into this thing. I just have to keep waiting.

How are those Mullard's RR? Been thinking of getting a quad for Torii.

Thanks Lon. Good to know. Liking the EH 6CA7's in the Torii whether or not they engage the Hazen mod(haven't heard back from Steve yet) and liked the JJ 6CA7's as well but have heard pretty good things on the "Mullards" so maybe will give them a try. At least I know they're real pentode.

I'm back and forth between the EH and JJ's. Nothing wrong with the JJ's at all. A really great tube. Hard to say at this point what I like better. And then the "Mullards" will be here shortly to play with.

I'll be interested in your take, and any difference that you hear with the EH's in Torii's 2 & 3.

Well, Ron sent me cryo'd JJs by mistake, so I'm a few days away again from trying the EHs.

How long does it take to wind transformers! Mine is being wound with several others.  It seems that some of the new SE34I.3 units have already hit the street.

Mine is in route as I write this. I ordered it with Vcaps so it will be a while before I can say how it really sounds.

Mine shows as "PARTS PULLED" which means that it is being assembled.

However, I am going to receive a TORII MK III this week. This amp might elbow the others out of the way.

Now my SE34I.3 is "On The Bench."

My TORII MK III is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow.

I am afraid somebody would ask me that.

A few days ago I received the TORII MK III back from DECWARE all checked out and cleared for duty, with a new black figured base installed.

This amp had never been broken in. I set up the amp with JJ 6922 input tubes, Russian Winged "C" rectifiers and no-name Chinese EL34 power tubes, with the 0A3 and 0C2 voltage regulators.

The first two hours the amp did not sound impressive.  However, as it played, during hour 3-5 the sound began to set in and grow more spacious and clear. Five hours on; five hours off is the plan. I have been adhering to that.

Because my listening space is a small room, the sound waves from this thing go right through me. I find that the bass sounds best with the bass pots turned all the way down. However, the treble pots are set at about half. I cannot discern any real palpable difference between the two bias settings.  I set the speaker impedance switch pointed back, which sounds best with the MG 944's.

The main thing I have to say about this amp is that it amplifies on the characteristics that the other DECWARE amps have. It brings extra  impact and emotion to the music that the other amps bring in a slightly less quantity.

I don't know if the MK III is too big and powerful for this room; it may well be. I am not ready to divest of any of the other amps yet. I am waiting for my SE34I.3; the new Sheriff in town.

Is it possible to have too much DECWARE? Probably not.    

RR,

This reminds me of my first experience with the Torii. And it sounds like your settings (bass full left for tightness, and impedance back for more push and therefore more articulation) are adaptations to the green Torii and probably  your room, as you suggest. With my 944s in this room, like Lon, I liked the forward setting for impedance, and back for bias... the most easy settings. But with my HR-Ones, I tend to prefer the back impedance setting, especially since I put NOS Russian K40Y-9 PIO coupling caps in the Torii.

When the Torii first came, right off, I missed the SE34I.2+ with its effortless, open and lucid mids, and found the weight and density of the Torii a little intimidating. But as Lon suggests (I think especially in some settings) Torii burnin can be a big factor. Not hearing a notable difference with the bias switch is a good indicator of subtitles to come as the amp opens up. After that first bloom, I suspect you are looking at a couple hundred hours to get into the "seasoning" phase that seems to continue for a long time.

For me, with room adjustments (to accommodate the power and weight), tube exploration, and so on, I feel like I have the magic of SE with the power and weight not likely attainable with SE. This for me is the amazing thing about the Torii. It can have a more dense, balanced, classic sound, or a very lucid and open sound and anywhere in between...but with the fast, smooth power...very nice.

I look forward to your developing impressions.

Go into the Contact tab on the Decware website. The PDF build sheet link is in there.

Thanks guys:)

ThorSevan has reported his arrived in the "Help me validate Decware amp and speakers" thread in the General Discussion forum.

Mine has passed QC....looking forward to hearing your impressions Riv.

Congrats!

It behaves a lot like the little ZEN amp with gain and overall presentation. It has the same insane imaging. The power tube gauges are a delight. The needle starts to move after the unit warms up. I am glad that I bought my matched pair of Mullard reissue EL34's from Jim McShane because they show identical readings on the little meters. When you turn the volume nearly all the way up the needles on the meter start going a little crazy. The gauge tells you when the amp is clipping.

The amp has a "clean" look to it. The elegant black figured base I figure looks best with this.

The tube set is a pair of 6N1P-EV, the Mullards and a 1950's Sylvania 5U4G rectifier. I listened to only CD's.

I could not test the amp's limits because my daughter had oral surgery yesterday and had to stay quiet. From what I was able to play I could discern that the amp had the gain and imaging qualities of the little ZEN but the sound was a tad warmer. This is pretty much what Steve had forecast.

I am sorry if I am not "gushing" here (like somebody who replaced a cheap rack system with their first DECWARE amp). This is the ninth DECWARE amp I have owned. I take for granted the high level of performance this gear presents.

RACHEL is loud enough in my small room without using a preamp, connected to the vaunted MG944 (Zen Zeigler) speakers. This RACHEL dame needs to be controlled, I think; and what better to do that with than a CSP2+ preamplifier. I will move that into position and see how it does. It should add more weight and control.

Without a preamp and the gain past 3/4 RACHEL begins clipping, a lot like the little ZEN. The sound sounds more weighty right before that point. The CSP2+ would allow me to ride the gain and better accommodate the sound of different recordings.

My listening session using the TORII MK III night before last was marred by the JJ 6922 inputs, which I suspect were distorting. I moved the treble controls before realizing that the trouble was the  JJs. I have to put some 6N1P-EV's in those slots.

Great info Riv, and I think we all appreciate your level head impressions of the amp thus far. Mine has shipped! I live overseas now so it may took a bit, and my speakers are not shipped yet either.

So, as you can see I have some breakin' in to do as well with new Omegas (Hoyt B 1.5) and VCAPs in Rachel.

I'm interested to play with the meters myself. I used to have an Amplitrex AT1000 capable of tight matching. I think I ordered these EL34s from Upscale or McShane will have to check.

I don't have a 5U4 though, just a Dario GZ32. I am in the process of ordering one 5U4 unless someone has a spare that they would sell me (shipped to forwarding address in New York).

 Well I am the newest person on the waiting list for the Rachael. Steve was nice enough to spend 30mins discussing my situation and what to expect  w/ the Rachael based on my set up, 11'X13' room w/ Paradigm studio 80v2 w/ specs of 92db, 8ohm fed by a Csp2.  Currently my amp is a SS 175 watts per chan.
 I received a nice education on, I guess listening habits in terms of  volume level.  Basically the volume with which one feels is where the sound quality reaches its peak in terms of fullness/tonality etc is different btwn his amps and high power SS amps.  I told him I like to listen at slightly higher than avg levels as then the music opens up.  He said that is due to many SS amps sounding anemic until the volume is pretty loud, i.e. if 2 people sat on a couch, and the music was sounding right, we'd have to raise our voices quite a bit to converse.  
 W/ the Rachael,  the music will sound full and perfect at a much lower level, so i'll not even notice that it's not as loud as I normally would like it to be. And, I won't miss the extra volume the SS amp has, at least with serious listening.
 So even tho Rachael is not gonna get near concert levels w/ my speakers, it won't need to.  Plus, this doesn't even take into consideration the improvements in musicality and transparency I should w/ the tune amp.
 Never the less tho,  he did say he will be expecting a call from me in a year or so inquiring about buying a set of his (more) efficient speakers.  At which point, I'll really know the definition of kick ass sound.

I can't wait.  I did ask about the Jupiter caps and he said he highly recommended them, and let me have them at the same price as the V-caps.   Said more transparent and organic than the standard caps they use, and he prefers them to the V's.  Will sound great w/ my Csp2 pre.  I don't need the volume control option on the amp because my csp2 has the 2 gain dials which essentially would serve the same purpose.

I know this info won't be surprising for you veteran Decware users, but for new csr's like me with little to no experience w/ the Decware amp sound, maybe this will answer some questions.



Greg

Thanks Lon, your posts have been very informative for me over the months, along w/ everyone else in this great community and I really have no doubts about this purchase now.  It's been great education reading the old posts prior to making what I think is now an informed option.   Man i'm excited.
 The csp2 I bought used here in Oct and this Rachael are my first stereo upgrades in maybe 10yrs.  No more mid fi for me!
 Also, as far as the loudness bit goes, I'll still be keeping my SS around for War movies and parties so no worries there

Thanks to all,
Greg

 That's really cool Palomino.  I've never heard anything from my rig like that,  everything is definately btwn the speakers, and mostly 2 dimensional. Don't get me wrong, it sounds great, especially when I added the csp2, but still.....
 Anyways, thanks for the input, and please keep it coming as the amp breaks in. I'd like to hear all about it.

Greg

At least the cables and pc's etc aren't a waste since you can always use them on your other gear.  I'm planning to invest in some Decware cords soon.  Not sure what to start w/,  spkr cbl, interconn's or PC's.   Prob not the spkr cbl as those are the highest price.  I like to wade into the water.

Greg12,

I believe the best place to start is the speaker cables. Yes they may be the most expensive of the cable, but there is a reason for that. They make the  most improvment, first off, secondly, without the good speaker cables, I don't think  you will hear what the other cables bring to the table.

Funny story about the speakers cables...

I get a box from Decware, things I had ordered, or needed for a speaker build. In the bottom of the box, there was a bunch of short lengths of speaker cable. Steve knowing I wasn't a firm believer in high priced speaker cabling at the time, I'm thinking, what am I supposed to do with these.

I called Steve that afternoon, and asked him, what am I to do with all these wires. Me thinking he was joking, he told me to strip the ends, butt them together and solder then up and try them out. He said they would sound better than anything I had tried or was using at the time.  He was correct, enough said. That is what I'm using to this date.

Zygi

I was the ultimate unbeliever about cables. The math and science just didn't add up. Guess what? Math and science hasn't listened to my stereo with good cables and interconnects. Big noticeable differences.

Ah you inspired me to put on the Impulse SACD of CB and the KC 7.

The wait for a Decware component. . . well it can be tough. Kudos on coming up with a diversionary tactic!

I agree that Phillips 5R4GYS is a great rectifier.  That and 1953 RCA 5R4GYS are my favorite rectifiers they really open up the sound.

JD

Just have an earlier cd of that one. Cool session!

I could never convince anyone that I have any math skills but the new speaker idea sure sounds like a winner!

Dennis

2 Rachaels through my 89 db`s sounds more than adequate.
Waiting for a replacement EL34 and listening through 1 Rachael sounds v/good but miss the extra bass authority and great presence/room fill.
More efficient speakers should/would equal the same ? You know I think it`s possible. Interesting thought.
I dont drink anymore but those Greene King IPA`s were  

Greg12,

The number you should use to compare your speakers to the MG944s is 89dB (92dB is with ave room gain added).

89dB vs 93/94 dB ~ so all else being equal the 944s should be a little louder with 6 watts than the Paradigms with 12 ~ not all things are equal of course, the Paradigms have a 3rd order 2 way x-o and 2nd order low pass filter whereas the MG944s have a 1st order x-o, arguably this makes a difference also with fewer parts in the x-o being better for low power tube amps.

Lin

Just read your first post on this thread Greg. Very good of Steve to chat about volume levels, which are topical for recent weeks posts in the" How much power is enough" thread.
Bang on from Steve.

Greg you've made a great choice.  I as well wanted to be one and done in amp buying and I've had the Torii MKIII for just under a year.  It will blow you away and it keeps getting better and better.  A good amount of tubes to swap but not so many that it's overwhelming.  With great sources and interconnects you truly can't go wrong with this amp. The only negative is now I've also bought the CSP2+ and the ZP3 and numerous DECWARE interconnects because of the great quality and logical prices.

JD

SE34I.3 versus a Mini Torii?

It seems that a Mini Torii has a better chance of taming a bright high end (due to tube rolling and the treble adjustment).

But does the SE34I.3 some better (all things being equal)?

Also, will you save money on replacement tubes as the MINI Torii tubes are reported to last much longer.

Any comments?

Some serious fun ahead!

Hey PK sorry to rain or snow on your parade!!!! Racheals a Diva of the highest caliper....

Ok, that's it! I made an executive decision today, and bought Steve's original prototype of this amp. I wandered back and forth, looking at various Decware models, and while price determined one or two choices, I ended up with this amp. I shouldn't say 'ended up' as though it were settling for or something like that, but rather after talking with Steve for awhile, it was the best choice for me. I didn't want a lot of extras, so as it turns out, I got more in the performance arena than the option arena. So, if I remember correctly, it has one set of outputs, a volume control for each channel, just happens to have the Jensen capacitors installed, and will come with a set of 6N2P input tubes. The rest of the tubes are 'stock', and that is fine since I have a few of my own. I actually owned a 34i.1 a long time ago, and it kinda drove me nuts with all of the different ways it could be hooked up and then different switches for tube bias. Then there were switches for the transformers themselves, IIRC, and it was too much for my OCD! This is a much more straightforward amp for me and will undoubtedly be a great choice for my ZOB speakers. Presently I am using an Audio Nirvana integrated amp that is really good, BUT it is push pull 6V6 and as good as it is, I still prefer SET sound. The new amp may arrive next week, and that will give me a little time to break the news to my wife(tomm is VAlentines, so that might be a window). More to follow as soon as the amp arrives. Like some of you, I have an idea what to expect, but have never run the ZOB speakers on a Decware amp. This may be one of the last steps to Audio Nirvana.

Lon,

   Good to hear from you. Yah, it's kinda kool to have a 000 serial number amp. I used to own two SV83CS? mono amps., number 1 and 2. They were unforgettable, which brings me back to here. BTW, I meant to say that this new amp will have one set of INPUTS, well, I guess it does have one set of outputs too, heh heh. Still warming up the wife subliminally. It's a hurdle I tell ya.

I don't currently have either the zen or the ZMA.  I heard them at zenfest and really liked them both. To keep my comments brief I liked the clarity and soundstage of the zen and the richness of the ZMA.  

I get to hear them now because I get together with another decware afficianado and he has both. We haul gear over to each other's house and mix systems.  

Tomorrow I am going to be listening to the ZMA to see just how zen it is. Last time I heard it I listened mostly to how full and rich the notes were. It was remarkable.

Still for my situation and room Rachael is very very good.  I will own or build a little zen amp some day. It will either be a second system amp or my desktop amp.  ZMA if I win the lottery.

I still need to spend some time with the Torii mk III to see what the ZMA adds above that amp. MkIIIs are selling for a very good price these days.

Raymond...I'm intrigued.  I have been considering this amp for my HDT's, and would be interested if you're experience with this amp improved the sound of the HDT's.  I am currently running my pair with a pair of SE 84CSM monoblocks (2 WPC) and would like to hear your impressions of this combination.

Dan

Raymond...sorry for the late reply.  I also heard that Steve voiced this amp with the HDT's.  When I was at Decfest last year, I didn't hear this combo enough to form an opinion, although I value Steve's opinion very highly.

Given all that, are you using the amp with a pre-amp?  If so, which one?

Thanks for your input in advance

I've tried one with mine and felt there was something to "riding the gain" but didn't keep it hooked up.

I listen to a lot of playlists versus albums and don't want to adjust much when I am listening and to get the most out of it, I felt you had to.

Well, I have had the opportunity to listen enough to say, it's a keeper. Listened to Synergy Chords album last night, and I don't really like to use the word shocked too much, but I did find myself with mouth open hearing the music even more tantalizing than before. A list of other types of music keep me entertained during the latest storm siege. I did do some twiddling with the amp by adding some sound deadening material on the underside. I also prefer brass to black screws, and changed them all,  30 or something.

Sir, you are an observant one. Yes the brass weights were my first attempt on a metal lathe. Figured out quickly that it is harder than it looks. Anyway, when I bought this amp from Steve, we talked a bit about tubes, and this rectifier is the one he sent with the amp. Can't really compare, but suffice it to say, I have no thoughts about rolling just yet. I do have some EL 34 Rubys down stairs that call out to me. As far as rectifier tubes, time will tell. Here is a photo of the underside. I like the notes drawn on the underside.

This was the prototype that Steve used pre-production. There were a few upgrades such as the Jupiters, one pre-out, mono pots(which I switch to mono attenuators), and 4 inputs that are not hooked up(Steve is picky about the presence of too many connections, and wanted this amp to be as straightforward as possible. I agree). I added silver input jacks, few other niceties. You can see by the notes written on the chassis that this was the idea in the making. here is a cool shot of the Jupiter.

Well, I think that most all of tube equipment will benefit from damping, and Herbies' seems to have gone to great lengths to produce a quality product. I will most likely add some to the input tubes as well. I have used Sorbothane feet on the bottom of this unit, but will replace them with Tenderfeet in time. To a much smaller degree, I feel that damping the output trannys will keep it all clean. It's just that you have hundreds of feet of fine wire that could be affected by vibration. Just a thought.

Ray, I agree about most damping. I also am now using the cable dampers from Herbies. In the future, I will add the Tenderfeet. For now, I am using an ARMY of Sorbothane footers because their rating is not made for the weight.

Jameskk - Now that you have more hours on the Racheal, do you still feel the Racheal is a marked improvement over the Superzen?