Just so my question is clear, this piece is on the Tori Mk III page:
Quote:

I read this as saying that the Shuguang will activate the Hazen Grid.

RR, seems you are spot on.

Thanks much datman. I have read nothing but good about these. I plan to order two quads but to break in my Toriis with V-caps in with the stock. Did you get V-Caps in yours?

UPDATE 20110613: Shuguangs ordered. Two quads. The Grant Fidelity/Audio For Less folks are great. I have already received my Purolator shipping notice less than two hours later. And as of the morning of 20110614, the tubes have left Calgary.

No VCAPS. I figure the caps Steve uses in his amps are what he considers audiophile grade. This is more than good enough for me. The one upgrade I did do is to use ceramic tube sockets for longevity.

Been watching the painful delivery progress of my tubes. Grant Fidelity shipped them promptly, but this online report makes me hope they are packed very, very well [note in inverse order]:

2011-06-16      10:25 AM      Departure via ROSEBURG, OR, US depot      
2011-06-16      08:05 AM      Arrived at via ROSEBURG, OR, US depot      
2011-06-16      04:09 AM      Departure via PORTLAND, OR, US depot      
2011-06-16      03:16 AM      Arrived at via PORTLAND, OR, US depot      
2011-06-15      11:04 PM      Departure via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      05:35 PM      Arrived at via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      05:25 PM      Departure via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      04:43 PM      Departure via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      03:45 PM      Import via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      09:30 AM      Arrived at via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      01:20 AM      Departure via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-15      12:52 AM      Departure via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-14      08:34 PM      Export via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-14      01:41 PM      Arrived at via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-14      02:50 AM      Departure via CALGARY, AB, CA depot      
2011-06-13      09:50 PM      Export via CALGARY, AB, CA depot      
2011-06-13      06:45 PM      Export via CALGARY, AB, CA depot      
2011-06-13      06:35 PM      Arrived For Export Processing via CALGARY, AB depot      
2011-06-13      03:29 PM      Picked up by Purolator at Reception from Grant Fidelity at CALGARY, AB via CALGARY, AB depot      

Dang, if they sound half as good as they look, this will be fun:


A few more:

Box

Tubeset

Individual Tube

Will be interesting to hear what Steve might say about them.

I fully understand. . . I've been treating myself far too much when I should stop. . . bought myself another guitar, a Martin D-15S, was too cheap to pass up and a lovely guitar now only made in the custom line. Love the 15 series, I have the smallest, an 00-15, until now my only acoustic guitar.

My one trepidation is. . . I've never found yet a tube made in China that I really liked, though I've only tried Ruby and Valve Art, but they were disappointing in comparison with US and European tubes. But. .  I'm sure these are awesome. Can't wait to hear reports.

I read that review when posted earlier. .. I agree that it's a promising review.

I can't see myself ordering them for some time to come, but who knows, maybe one day! I'll stick with Winged C and Mullard reissues til then,

Pale Rider,

Did you hear the TORII Mk.3 before you ordered two of them with V-Caps?

Gee, two V-Cap TORIIs that can't be returned and two sets of Shuguangs, that's a very big leap of faith.

I'm not as confident, so I ordered the stock version. Plus, if I was going to upgrade the caps, I'd rather have Auri-Ts.

Lon said it. Three things factor into my confidence: (1) the passion and goals/theory of the designer; (2) the enthusiasm of other customers; (3) my experience with the Taboo (which has V-caps), that validated #1 and #2.

So, when Steve offers the V-caps and the Treasures as the only "real" upgrades on the Torii, and his pricing for them is also very reasonable, that speaks persuasively to me. I ordered the former with the amp build, of course, while I ordered the Shuguangs separately after doing more research and knowing I had plenty of time before the Toriis arrive.

As for the Auri-Ts, to each their own; one reason it is a great hobby. But given my confidence in Steve's voicing of the amps, I am comfortable with the V-caps. Plus, while I have plenty of experience soldering and building, I have no desire to open up a Torii and swap caps myself. The V-caps were the only real way to go for me.

Hey Lon, thanks for that link. I had missed that one. I especially enjoyed the recommendation of the "recording issued by Tone-Pearls Records in Ireland: Chopin and Debussy: Piano Music in a Church performed solo by the Hungarian born musician Endre Hegedus." Ordered the DVD of the higher-res files.

Cool. Keep me posted how they test out, and whether they match well etc.  I did read that in that one review and wonder.

k, did Steve share what number in queue you are? He told me I was 8 out of 54, I believe.

Cool. Congrats. What base did you get?

Nice woods. So, right now, you ordered it with the standard base? The black figured one, or modern walnut?

Steve's been shipping with JJs, which I'm sure are very good as well in the Torii; I've used them in the Integrated and the SE34 Monoblocks to great success.

I really like the Winged Cs as well, it's a great tube in the Torii. I don't doubt that the Treasures are great. . . but right now, til I go to work again, they're out of my price range. Anyoone want to give me a job wiht an outrageous salary?

Pale,

Ok...maybe I was hoping that you'd get some Winged C's as well and give us some comments?....

How close are you on delivery?

PR, have you heard any status on your amps?

Pale.... Squeeze I did. Finish wasn't dry enough to ship today, but they will go out on Monday. As far as I know both Torii's are done along with the Ultra.

Steve told me to take a break from speakers and get on the amp bases. He had a ton of customs, which I did them all. I even did the cherry for you ZS so he won't have to wait on me again.

Rivieraranch, I might be the person that appointed the Shuguand Co. the Holy Grail. I got behind in my paperwork and just signed everything thrust in front of me with out reading everything over. Sorry, next time I will do my due dilligence. You don't want to ask how the "Great Recession" really started, lets just say I won't ever dump a Pepsi on my desk again.

PR, looks like you'll be enjoying your new amps by this time next week.

Heard today that mine is being built.

Hey . . . you're almost caught up with me. I own five. Though the first, the 27th Zen amp built, I might never get back from a friend who has "borrowed" it six years or so ago. . .:)

Looks like the first of my Toriis is about to be on its way. Hooray!

PR,

I saw your amp was packed on amp waiting list Steve sent out yesterday.

Your other TORII shows "waiting on part."

Mine shows "on bench."

Here is a link to the list... it is a .PDF file updated in real time.

https://creatorexport.zoho.com/decwarehighfidelity/decware/pdf/Amplifier_Waiting...

This is the link that is sent out in the status messages.

Thanks,

Steve

The first of my Toriis shipped today, along with three new Decware power cords.

Separately, I did my first tests of the two groups of Shuguang tubes I bought. The tubes tested almost identically, or at least, in the first two tests I ran, before I managed to idiotically break off a center guide pin on one of the tubes in the test socket. Sigh. Fortunately, it was one of the cheaper tubes, though that distinction may not matter a lot. OTOH, maybe it broke off because it was a cheaper tube. Dunno.

Actually, I think the tube still could work just fine. It tests fine. I could try to repair it, or simply mark the base with the center pin key location.

Brent tells me he sees this problem with modern tubes not fitting old sockets well, especially in the Chinese tubes. He recommended some socket savers from Antique Electronic Supply. I ordered a few and will leave them installed in the tester.

Will, I bought my third quad on fleabay. Here is a current auction for two. Hope that helps.

Greg

Will I did see that, and it was one of the reasons I felt the "investment" was worth it with Grant Fidelity. The only way to know for sure will be to swap out whole quads in the Torii.

Ehh...  one can get a matched quad of the 6ca7s for about 50% of what Grant Fidelity charges from a source that has never steered me wrong.  On the other hand, I the one premium pair of Shuguangs I got from Grant (Psvane 845) left me feeling numb and was ultimately sold.

My personal feeling is that its effective marketing.

My third quad was picked up from this auction. I am not complaining, but the fact that it was one of these tubes that broke an octal post when testing, and that my seller has disclaimed any interest in assessing the cause, causes me to ascribe ome value to the Grant Fidelity overhead price. So, best I can do is compare the two, continue testing (once I get my socket savers in), and see what happens.

I do think Grant Fidlity makes some valid points about how matching alone does not provide the necessarily most predictive results. OTOH, it may well be that the 100% markup cannot be justified by any amount of longevity. Don't know. Yet.

Thanks Gopher. Are those guys affiliated with the same people who make DACs, headphone amps like the GD-Audio Phoenix, and other stuff?

Anyway, looks encouraging. I put in an inquiry on the ST 6CA7-Z.

Thanks Gopher.

RR, I think you are spot on that this is one way to interpret the Grant Fidelity assessment of the Shuguang tubes. Like buying old Jags; cars were wonderful to drive, so long as you could drive them.  Reminds me of an old cartoon that showed a dealer, and a buyer discussing price, and the dealer says something like: "And here is our Platinum Premiere Package; it includes a stand-by mechanic."

Not yet. Due here Monday, July 11.

Well, I was out sick a couple of days, so didn't have a chance to set up my Torii for its burn-in cycle. But it is going now. 5 hours on and off.  I have an iPod set up to shuffle-repeat through its entire library, with the Torii set on a heavy duty timer cycled every 5 hours. That way, it should only take the V-caps about two months to settle in. Actually, it should take less than that, because I will do the cycling thing only for about a week, before I bring it home. The Radials are due here Tuesday, and Sarah just told me the Ultra is shipping out today.

Such a lovely piece of equipment. I am thinking of changing my handle to Valve Drunk. That way, you guys can call me VD in messages.

LOL! What, me worry?

SOT, I absolutely love the SGT 6CA7-Z tubes. I have listened to the stock JJ EL-34 and I have the JJ 6CA7 as well. I have some NOS Mullards and Svetlanas also, but I haven't listened to them. I am no fan of Chinese tubes, nor do I believe that simply because they are Chinese, they cannot be good. I ordered two matched quads from Grant, highest rating. I ordered a third quad from a fleabay seller at half the price as the Grants, for backup, but have not listened to them; they are slightly different in appearance only on the bases; the third quad was not shipped in the luxury box, but it arrived safely. The Grants tested as billed on my B&K, and so did the third quad. Bearing in mind that my Toriis (with V-caps) are still breaking in, so there is every reason to believe that their sound is still evolving, here is a summary of what I hear (I am not a big long review writer):

1. Sublime liquidity, a smoothness that is clear and deep.
2. Layers of complexity, which in combination with the depth and detail, amazing detail, produces a deep, wide, tall soundstage.
3. Soft highs, but not lacking air or detail around instruments and voices.
4. Well-controlled taught bass.
5. Very quick transients, with what seems like natural decay.

Now, maybe a year from now, any tube will sound like this in this amazing amp. Could be, but the JJs do not sound this thorough, this complete, not yet anyway. For now, I am delighted.  

Amplifier Waiting List

Steve, Can you explain what you hear from the Shuguangs compared to the JJ 6CA7?

Absolutely. In this line of work, right is preferable to fast.

I am the tipster and yes, I think you will like them. The Treasures are not in any way bad, its just the JJ's sound more like music. To me this proves that yes, there IS a Santa Claus!

Welp, I sold my quad of Winged "C" el34s that came with the Torii and used the proceeds to order up some JJ 6CA7s.  If nothing else, it sounds like they'll be a great backup tube to my black treasures, which I am digging.

If the performance is close enough, maybe I'll even sell the BTs to re-coupe some funds and consider the JJs a 'free' upgrade over stock.

Gopher,

Please let us know your thoughts comparing what you like and don't like about the two once the JJs are all burned in. I had a set and after about 80 hours they were beginning to sound pretty impressive in many ways, but then one went funky....some breakup when the music saturated. I have a replacement quad coming, but just when I was thinking I was beginning to hear what the tubes were about! I am so over burnin

Datman,

My guess is these could easily need 150 hrs or more to get the full feel of them. Do you recall?

They're due to arrive tomorrow from UPS.  I don't know if I'll throw them in for Friday's session (assuming I have one) or wait till I go to bed and leave 'em on playing tones.

I have little patience for burn in.  In most instances I PREFER buying used for that reason.  That said, it should be fun.

I'm liking all this input about the JJ's now coming with the Torii. I am going to hook my new III up to my Dish Network Box/DVR and let Serius Sat. music play through it for 150 hours and watch some TV too here and there of course.

Stone of Tone

I ended up throwing them in this afternoon after work.  I only got to listen for an hour or so before I had to go to a BBQ, but my first impressions were very positive.  

A very different, very pleasant presentation--far more meat on bottom and plenty of top end extension--I was a little concerned it might be a darker tube, but I'm not finding it to be so.  I actually perceived a little more resolution, picking up on some distortion I didn't know was present on te MOFI reissue of Cowboy Junkies, Whites off earth.

It will be interesting to hear how these things develop over time, but at least my first impression is that they have a more natural presentation as well.

They ran all night playing the Isotek burn in tones disc and when I woke up today I wasn't as thrilled about what I was hearing.  Sounded a little more ambiguous and less engaging.  Kind of a distant presentation--I popped 'em out and threw the Treasures back in.  

I know the JJs have potential and can see they'll be capable of a lot, but I've got the house to myself today and I want to listen to music, not burn in.  I'll probably throw them back in overnight and keep 'em burning in  behinds the scenes.

I'm starting to think I may have spoken a bit hastily on these tubes.  They're pleasant enough and a definite improvement over the winged "c" tubes, but they're just less incisive/authoritative then the Treasures.  

I like them, but its hard to say better--its a different presentation.  I'd hoped I'd prefer them clearly and sell the treasures, but I don't think it will be that simple as both have their strengths...

Then again, we will see what additional burn in brings.  Also, I should try other reg tubes with these.  The 0A3s may be calling my name.

I don't really know, I took them out for a bit this weekend--maybe 30-40 hours of Isotek burn in time by now.  

They aren't bad by any means, damn good really.  I'm just not ready to pronounce them as slaying the Black Treasures yet, which I'd be happy to do if it were the case.  I haven't had much love in the past for black treasure/psvane tubes.

Anyway--who knows what another 50 hours will bring?