Please forgive me if I've hi-jacked newly posted information and started a new topic about which the ink is barely dry ...

BUT this should be in the Times ... or the Post ... and now it's in the Enquirer ...

I have a tremendous interest in this 6 channel pre-amp, presumably to compliment the DIY mono block amps you have recently begun offering... Wowzer !

Would love to have a HI FI surround sound system ...with a nice AV controller that supports HDMI 1.4 but doesn't get in the way ...

a dog that can take blood pressure and AC1 readings, bring me food they don't have to advertize on TV to get medicare to pay for,  (and even local wild life or visiting teenagers wont eat) ...

Shucks, watching stealth TV in 3D while listening to Jefferson Airplane singing  Crown of Creation ....what could be better ??

Again, please forgive my excitement and pushy post ... but I really love the possibilities these new products offer...

You can kill me ... but you can't eat me ... I've been told I'm toxic ...

The Zen Ultra sounds too good to be true. But it sounds like it addresses exactly what I was thinking of putting together with multiple ZSTAGEs feeding multiple amps for my HT system.

Early morning, April 4 ...

actually missed that opportunity about 18 hours ago ...


Still waiting patiently for news.

I doubt it ... too much creedence, in the line and previous successes ...

Probably just sitting in a back room making power cords ...
ignoring those of us ... viewing this site ... no worry , no shame ...

Those new speakers manufacture them selves ... ya' know

huge market for cables, these days ...

A virtual monkey's ... gone to heaven  
room to believe... and room  ... to myself

Don't care... if I mumble ...

Was that inappropriate  ??

Here is the completed paper on the Zen Ultra:

https://www.decware.com/newsite/paper120.html

May be a week or two before the web page is done.

Steve

I've noticed that the excellent Sony BDP-S5000ES is being heavily discounted lately, available new between 400 and 500 dollars. I'd wager this would be an excellent model to use with this preamp; it has discrete outputs for all channels that are purported to sound really really good, close in quality to its sister ES SACD player, which I have and adore the sound of.. Picture quality is also reported to be excellent, especially DVD upscaled image. I'll have one here on Monday, though I only use 2 channel audio for video, and can't comment on the surround sound.




I sprang for this because it matches the looks (and shares important design characteristics) with my Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player, and  I couldn't resist the price (this started out as a 2000 dollar player). I'll move my current Sony BDP-S2000ES into my bedroom system where I  know it will shine as both a cd and video source.

Just thought it would be a good price point for someone interested in quality audio with great picture, and not needing to stream movies, etc.

Lon, I saw your note about the Sony player.  Do you know of any Sony Authorized dealers selling at these prices?

I found some dealers on the Internet, but they are not Sony dealers and thus the 5 year ES warranty would not be honored.  All of the authorized Sony sites I visited say the product is discontinued.

I'm a little concerned about throwing $500.00 at a product that has no support.  What's your take on it?

Thanks Lon!

I just ordered one for $349 plus free shipping.

I think the Sony will work perfect with the Zen Ultra, because you'll need high quality analog outputs for the Ultra.

More and more DVD players are skipping 5.1 analog and just providing HDMI and 2.0 stereo outputs.

Agreed. I have to say I am very happy with the Oppo BDP-95 I recently installed. Solidly made, with a lot of attention to audio detail, including the ability to drive both 2-channel and 7.1 component audio and a reasonable quality DAC. How this will pair up with the Ultra remains to be seen, but I am jazzed about this possibility.

The effort is worth it Steve, always a fascinating read.

I think this product (though not on MY list) may prove to open a few new doors for Decware as there's really little that comes close to being like it out there and for some reason people love surround sound. Including people who don't yet know they're audiophiles and haven't yet encountered a need (so they think) for a Decware component.

One word: ordered.

Yeah, I know, I am completely obtuse. Oh well.

But the way I figure it, this solves every one of my concerns about integrating stereo, home theater, and headphone listening. I shared the page with several friends and they all had the same reaction: this solves all the problems they had between excellent stereo and good HT.

I'd seriously recommend hunkering down for the long wait for the Ultra and listening to the stock tube complement for a month or two.  And then deciding what to do.

Tubes react differently in each circuit, so if I were to say "MAN THEY SOUND INCREDIBLE IN MY AMP!" doesn't mean they'll be the cats's meow in the Ultra.  In your shoes I'd get the Ultra, listen through break-in and then decide what you might want another tube set to accomplish, and then maybe ask Steve about tube choices, who is the one person on the planet who will have more experience with the Ultra than you.

Re: Sony BDP-S5000ES: my unit arrived a week ago and has been heavily in use. Incredible build quality, made in Japan. FANTASTIC picture. The best picture for DVD and Blu-Ray I've ever had before. The 2 channel analog out is excellent. Not as good for Redbook as my Sony SCD-XA5400ES, but really good. Coaxial out to the ZDAC-1 sounds excellent, movie playback is detailed and dynamic. For the price this was going for (400 or so) a solid steal of a bargain.

Weighs 22 pounds! Build quality (which is important to me, why do you think I love Decware?) is really something. I'm so glad I have one. I'm convinced it would be a great choice for use with the Ultra.

BTY, my new Torii Mk III is breaking in nicely:) and happily waiting for a brother, sister and ZEN ULTRA, dream system in the works. What would be a great set up with ZEN speaker's including subs, surrounds fronts and center, any idea's will be very appreciated. I already have a projector, big room and lots of long HQ speaker wire:)

Lon, I am not at all surprised by the quality of that Sony unit. And at its price now—seriously? $400? Think about that!—it is a bargain.  And I agree its build qulity is better. I didn't get to "heft" it when I heard it, but it sure seemed well-built. But it ought to smoke the Oppo BDP-93, because it is better built, and each had a different target when released. Moreover, I believe its audio section got much more design attention. I have listened to that Sony, and it is very very good. I chose to stick with my decision to buy the Oppo BDP-95. I had already waited months, because I thought the 93's Achilles' heel was its audio. But in its price range, I don't think the same is true of the 95. When Steve announced the Ultra, I swear I thought the 95 was made for it.

Lon, you and me both. I much prefer sturdiness to mere good looks. FWIW, the Oppo 95 Is in a closer weight class to the Sony. And the difference between the 93 and the 95 is almost all in the audio section. Flimsy it is not.

I also noticed that low prices on the Sony seem to be harder to find than just a few weeks ago. I only found one vendor today with a sub-$600 price.

That may be true, Probably is. I don't have specifics because I just don't sell stuff. I should. I may, I have amps just sitting around. Among other things!

I'm watching a Blu-Ray on this Sony right now and am just blown away.So glad it's been available at this discounted price and I have it. I'm set if I were to ever go "Ultra Surround." Not bloody likely! I'm loving my sort of two channel surround with my Radials and Torii!

I'm glad you also have a great video source. That's the thing with the Decware line. . . it forces you eventually to seek out superior sources. You can't escape it!

I'm sure he already has one. Making one to sell, well if the Ultra picks up new business as I think it will. . . there you go.

Pale Rider, If I am not mistaken 7.1 is not going to happen affectively anytime soon. NO MOVIES hardly in 7.1 and it doesn't sound right. Steve and I concluded it thru quite a lot of trial and error. I thought I had a 7.1 Meridian system all along only to find out the sides were playing the same as the rears and only the latest greatest most expensive hardware via HDMI will play it and the sound I heard is not all that.  This left a whole lot of high ender HT guys like me wondering what the F, not to mention properly setting up a computer based surround processor is ridiculous.
Though, the prospect of and ALL IN ONE is very inviting to me. Its the amp thing I haven't figured out. I could use my Meridian amps, they are actually the best thing Meridian ever sold IMO. Great transistors if there is such a thing. Then all I need to do is sell of the Meridian Processor which I will lose 8K on and buy the Ultra and run the whole set up via the ULTRA thru the existing speakers, amps and cables, plus the sub and in the end keep my higher end goodies upstairs for late night listening and extra fun.......so's not to wake the three little one's

lovethemusic

Pale Rider, It's all good trying to get 7.I to sound good, I did and actually thought it sounded good until I learned it wasn't even true 7.I that's me. Live and learn. Audio sure is a tuff one to figure. All I know is Steve and Crew are genius's.

When is the 6 channel amp coming out to match the Ultra is my question. Maybe even a recommended set up by Steve replete with speakers  etc. A complete surround and two channel high end system to live with and love for a very long time, like my wife. She actually lovesthemusic too.
I'm a lucky guy I married a jazz lover. ok to much information there.
thanks for all the fun talk guys. It's all fun and innocent that's what I like, it's work but fun work.... I would like my job to be as fun...... I guess if it was my job it wouldn't be so fun maybe but I doubt it, the music takes up any slack.... cheers

Ok,  I did get a bit off track. OPPO hands down then, no contest. Stock SE version. Hope to get the 95 and mod it at Tweak Audio, it'll smoke just about anything. What's our deal, best for the least? agreed.

OK brash, I'm through talking about the Sony I was just alerting anyone who is interested in the Ultra to the great deal on the Sony which is a killer machine. And the trend for players is to move away from discrete analog outputs to multi-channel through HDMI, which won't help anyone with the Ultra.(Not to mention that most players are now built like a disposable piece of shit).  Sorry, I've never been impressed with Oppo but I'm willing to believe that the model especially built for audio is one to target.  

The Sony deal seems to be dried up so it's a moot point. So glad I have mine, I now have great Sony ES Blu-Ray sources for my two systems, and a Marantz as a back up. I'm good. I love Blu-Ray.

No, I have had for over three years the previous Sony ES Flagship, the BPD-S2000ES. It sometimes acts funky with Blu-Rays, and it's now in my second system where I mainly use it for cd playback (sounds pretty damned good with redbook cd, and makes DVDs look fantastic, I'm happy with it except when it won't play a Blu-Ray for some reason. It also has 7.1 discrete outputs and is built like a tank. I bought a Marantz 7034 at a price that was hard to say no to when this Sony started acting up, but it's actually inferior to the Sonys in all aspects: build, picture, sound. It's my backup BDP for both systems at the moment.

Decision is easy for me because I have ZERO interest in using musical files, computer as a source, etc. So many discs on hand, and I like the physical product.s. So. . . easy to lust for the machines.

And the Decware amplification, cabling and speakers mean you really have to have a great quality front end.  

So. . .in your shoes I can definitely understand standing pat with what you got. In my shoes, the Sony is a smart move I've been congratulating myself with.

LTM,

I'm in love with the Sony SCD-XA5400ES. You know how it is with Decware systems, they show you so much of your source. I just couldn't relax into the music with the ZCD, the NAD T585 I had seemed better but I felt there was something missing, and then I took a chance on the SCD-XA5400ES and even before break-in I knew there was magic in this machine.

I'm not really sure what specifically it is, I think it's a combination of a few things. . . the build quality (it makes the Decware TEAC seem liek a toy), the DACs (they have to be good), the fact that apparently Redbook is sort of turned into DSD (not sure how that happens but from my reading that is sort of what happens), or the fact that strangely it appears there's no capacitor in the signal path, but the Redbook cd sound on this is outstanding. It's very detailed, but not fatiguing, and I can listen to the many recordings I have that are of lesser quality without obsessing about the sound, I can just relax into it. But when I listen to the reference stuff I have (mostly cds I've listened to on many systems and also recordings I made myself of bands I was in recorded in my then garage apartment) it's not as if they're smoothed over, everything is there. I can't speak more highly of this player.  Even the Redbook cd sound from the ZDAC-1, which is VERY VERY GOOD, doesn''t best it in my opinion.

The BDP-S5000ES Blu-Ray player has very good sound for DVDs and Blu-Rays. On Redbook cd it just frankly does not have the magic that the SCD-XA5400ES has, I wish it does. It sounds VERY, VERY GOOD, similar (yet a bit more "rounded") sounding to the ZDAC-1. Which is a compliment. Really, it's sounding quite good for cds, but not quite like it's "twin" (their cases and faces are identical) the SCD-XA5400ES. I sound like a broken record because I gush whenever anyone asks me about the SCD-XA5400ES---I put it right up there with my Torii Mk III and CSP2 and IT Radials as components that I just can't imagine living without. Just the ticket for me and my desire to "set it and forget it."

If you can audition one, do so.  Especially if you can get one that is pretty seasoned, or audition one for three or four hundred hours.

Yes, that's definitely not the route I've taken, nor going to take, but I'm glad you agree that the best source really pays off in dividends with these systems.

Well, from my outlook and experience, I think way too much has been made of the "bit perfect cd" possible by computer to DAC route, if you were implying that route was somehow superior. I've heard a few implementations that are impressive but I'm still just as impressed with my sources. And I know that hi-res recordings can be amazing, but I'm just not going to obsess about the very best individual sounds, it's like tube-rolling, an addiction/obsession I just don't want to invite.

None-the-less I know that if were younger, and if I did not have 15.000 plus recordings on hand I'd be investing in that route. Still for me it makes little sense. If I were really going to pursue "the perfect sound" I'd pedal back to vinyl and phono pre-amplification. The problem for me is that I just can't find on vinyl the amount of music I want to listen to and many many specific titles, and I don't' love "the hunt" or "listening only to the very best recordings" mindsets enough to begin to develop them at this state of my life.

So until my ship comes in and I can invest in something like a Meitner or DCS front end, my current sources have enough magic to make me enjoy even lousy recordings and relax into the music. Mission accomplished for me.  I respect anyone who has found the same satisfaction and accomplishment via other routes.

Guilty as charged. I contributed to the thread drift, er, capsize. Anyway, back to the Ultra. Man oh man, this is going to be fun. Every time I re-read the info, it amazes me how Steve has solved the problems of audio and HT.

macSu, I don't see that part as "Steve's job." Sure, room treatment is a significant issue, but that is already within the control—or the power of control—of the end user. I care about such things, but I can address them now. And Steve provides tools and tactics for solving that issue.

I am not sure I understand your distinction about "analog." As opposed to what? "Digital"? Sure, but I don't think the Ultra was intended to solve anything other than the Hobson's choice that previously existed for audiophiles who also wanted HT in the same room, and in the same system. And for the preamp part of the equation, as well as the ability to configure for both 2-channel quality sound and 6-channel quality sound, the Ultra does exactly that. It solves the problem of having audiophile quality 2-channel and 5.1 channel operation in a single electronics chain.

Perhaps you and I see this quite differently. In any case, some of my friends who are also both 2-channel and HT enthusiasts, certainly had no trouble understanding what a breakthrough this preamp is.

Lon, I don't want to sound like the poster child for the Ultra, especially since I have yet to hear it, but it does seem to me to solve some problems that previously were not solved in the market. As macSu noted, there are very good multi-channel preamps out there, but I don't think they solve for both 2-channel and 5.1 equally well.

macSu, just to be clear, I didn't take anything you wrote as sarcastic or negative. I just wanted to make sure I understood you. For me, the Ultra lets you do all the things you might want: full on home theater, pure two-channel, mixed three-channel "stereo," up mixing and down mixing, individualized volume adjustments, plus master volume, center/sub alignment, bi-amp/tri-amp. etc. When I read the description page (can't wait to read the manual), my reaction was: "all problems solved."

macSu, although I have been generally satisfied with HDMI in my HT setup, what I have heard so far does not appear to be of audiophile quality. This is not necessarily a black & white—or what we might call a binary  ;) —assessment, but it does seem to me that there are some limitations thus far in HDMI. Just so we are clear, I like the convenience of HDMI myself, and for certain DRM matters, it is unavoidable. But in audio, that is not the case. Someone on Computer Audiophile referred this link over, and while it is focused on video, it is worth a read:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html

I have read a number of comments and articles that suggest HDMI's evolution as a "standard" is a bit of a work in progress, and some have even called it a mess. My Oppo BDP-95 manual makes this comment about HDMI for audio:
Quote:


On my Denon Receiver, it all seems to work reasonably well, but I am looking forward to the Ultra and a return to something more audio focused.

I hear you. And I agree: you definitely ought to be able to do exactly that.

I don't know where I am in the queue. I believe I am early in line.  ;)

I don't think that link has ever been active.

Pale, Very exciting news... the Ultra AND Toriis on the way!

Sounds like you have what it takes for some fun tube tuning.  I recently ordered some of those National 7DJ8s for my Torii after really enjoying some Telefunken 7DJ8's in it.

http://www.tubemonger.com/Telefunken_PCC88_Bundeswehr_Falcon_Diamond_Bottom_p/65...

I like the Telefunkens. They seem to nicely bridge the open clarity I love with good 6DJ8s with a nice body and depth. They have really nice dynamics too. So I am interested in more 7DJ8s as these are a nice addition. I am guessing the Nationals will be really nice!

Have fun!

Pale,

This is a quote from tubemonger from when i asked them about using imperfect test score tubes as inputs on the Torii.

"For critical gain stages, it is not a good idea to use tubes with imperfect scores."

I asked because they are cheap and I don't even know what imperfect scores are. So I am still ignorant, just passing on the tubemonger view. You seem to know a lot, but just in case, there is time to change if you feel inclined and the tubemonger folks are very efficient and accommodating in my experience.

Well, they were very responsive, but I got a similar "not familiar with your amplifier circuit, but may not be suitable for critical application" sort of response. So, I upgraded to the quad matched set. Will see how they sound. And you were right about Tubemonger being efficient. They were ready to ship in less than two hours. I barely got the order changed in time.

At the end of the day, saving $14 per tube just isn't worth the uncertainty. Granted, that price differential is almost the price for what Decware charges for a 6922 or 6N1P, but still.

I suppose we could be trying these:

https://www.tubeworld.com/el34metal.htm

Only $1150 for a matched pair. Sheesh. I think I will stick with my Hazen Grid devices and more reasonable tubes.

Hey mac5u, yes, a little thread drift might be unavoidable, but commenting on a picture from the Ultra page is probably topical.

Anyway, I wondered about those gauges as well, and about the associated equipment, too.

Ah, the good old fine line between madness and genius!

But seeing the pic again reminds me that I have to find a proper stand that will permit access to the Ultra and Toriis, and even show them off, along with other components I care less about seeing, and also leaving room for center channel speakers that are likely to be ERRs.

Mike, thanks. In fact, the Zrack is on my list. I am considering two.

Thanks Lon. Will check it out. Which Samson do you have?

Thanks Lon. Those are beauties indeed.

Crickets chirping indeed. I am almost afraid to ask. Anyway, Lon said it well when he advised hunkering down for the long wait. On the other hand, I did not heed his very sound advice to order the Ultra with tubes. And it is sound advice. But.......... I kept my order tubeless and ordered a full cryo'ed set of these National NOS tubes. And of course, a variety of 0A3s and alternatives, a Mullard GZ37 and some other rectifier alternatives, to go along with some very nice NOS Sylvania, Mullard, and SED Winged C I already have. See, this is how I am keeping myself from gnawing off any more extremities in anticipation. I will build a little worksheet of tube combinations to start with for the Ultra and the Toriis, break them in, make notes, and then attempt to exercise some self-discipline as I listen, live with each combo for a while, and record impressions.

I also ended up getting two ZRACKs of the taller size that Steve recommended.

Michael, that is a great idea!

Pale Rider, sounds like fun. Are you consolidating systems into one or expanding a two channel?

Quote:
A bit of both. For a variety of reasons, my HT and my listening room are the same. Historically, my critical listening has been via headphone. The ULTRA made me decide to change that. So, going all in: ULTRA, two Toriis, an 84ZS and 3 pairs of ERRs.

Lon, that is too funny!

I hear you ltm. I sold some stuff at a loss, thinking it better that it have a home. The only Decware equipment I have now are the Taboo, ZSTAGE, interconnects and power cords. But those were enough to convince me I had found something that could be my end game for some time to come. So, I took the plunge. Will definitely keep the group apprised of progress. Should be easy to break the Ultra in, because I won't have anything to connect it to for a while. Will hook it up to the Oppo, play the Esoteric Isotek CD for about a thousand hours.

Actually, it appears hat almost everything is going to be done in a similar time frame. My first Torii arrived yesterday, my Radials shipped today, my Ultra is packed, and that leaves just the second Torii and the Zen SE84ZS.

Lon, how are you feeling today about your ERR/HR-1 comparison?

Greg,

How are things going over there?  Did the ERRs arrive yet?  Was that for a pair or all 6?

Pale Rider,

Any updates yet on your setup?
Please, let us know how it works out for you...
Thanks!

It must not be broken in uh?

whoops, PR, I see you popped for am Ultra and a tori how may I ask is it all working out. I know the tori is great but how do you like the Ultra so far?

I'm still in the process of building a speaker kit with a 97db efficiency on the top and midrange driver only for my Tori III w/ vcap as the two 12" drivers on the bottom are pushed by their own 370 servo amp. I put some Jupiter caps in the crossovers of my Open Baffle speakers. To go along with that set up I will put a highly tweaked Oppo 95 from EVS or Tweak Audio still out at the job. Can't wait to see if all this so called fancy less expensive stuff is really any better or as good as the mega buck stuff. I am sure it's still all in the details. I hope to hear great things of the   Ultra as once I can I want one to stomp all over this Meridian G68.
I'm just around the corner from that, but do want some feedback on the Ultra.

I asked Steve and he said the amp would work great with this speaker. He's aware of the speaker I got. I think your right though, its really going to have output. We'll see, currently the amp is hooked up to 91db and it clips pretty easily if cranked at all so I know 91db in my big room is no good. The amp is only pushing a 12" MID with a big built in forward and back firing modified tweeter so only time will tell.

ltm, it sounds like it should be a great pairing. As Lon has noted, I have posted a fair number of time about my experience with the Ultra and two Toriis.  I love the combo. Just this weekend, I posted in the What's Spinning thread my experience with having the Ulta/Torii/ERR combo kick the ever-loving' crap out of my drywall and floorboards.

I recently replaced the National tubes inmy Ultra with some 1960s NOS Siemens-Halske 6922 tubes, and they seem to have opened up the dynamics quite a bit. Simply superb stuff.

I have owned and/or built a lot of equipment in my life, but nothing that brought as much pure pleasure as my Decware system. The 69 Lotus Seven comes close. Well, it's second, but it's not really close.