Has anyone got any experience with the VCAP upgrade in their TORII MK III if so what VCAP model is installed in the upgrade firstly, secondly, did you get the upgrade after the fact and have a chance to compare VCAP's to the TORII III stock CAPS.  I have read a lot about the differences in the VCAP models and that the break-in time is very extensive but worth it.  [smiley=51.gif]

I have added some much need info about the vcaps to the Zen Torii page.  Hopefully it will help!

Thanks,

Steve

JLM,
Price out those caps and you can understand the charge. Also $2495 is a really low price for what Steve puts in this amp, not to mention the time it took to develop it. More like a $4,000 amp. The separate tube voltage rectification on the front end and the power side as well as the purpose built output transformers are reasons why it might/should cost more. $2500 is a bargain.

Jeff,

If I am correct, and the Torii-III still uses two caps per channel like the Torii-II did then you would have to have 4 caps instead of two doubling the price for a V-Cap upgrade.  ON the Taboo, I think it is, some other changes are also made, (operating points) maybe this is why Steve thinks there is more an improvement than someone just replacing the caps.

And then again I could be way off base here.

ZYGI

Don't tell Steve (because I really want to buy one someday) but the Torii Mk III is way underpriced IMO.  (But that is one of the charms for consumers that stumble onto cottage industry gems.)

I'm not saying he's over charging for the V-caps, just in a backhanded way trying to say the Torii (I'm sure) must be really good if that's what it takes to better it (and reminiscing).

mac5u: thought I found Steve stating it somewhere in the forums (I can barely read your yellow font).

I'm not tempted for several reasons. One. . . I don't want to return the amp, can't bear to be without, and I'm not gifted enough to perform that myself.  Two. . . The expense. . I mean I would be more tempted to try something else, say the more expensive Wyred DAC, than this expense. And third I've a fear that these caps might make the amp more detailed, more clinical if you will. I tend to prefer musicality to absolute detail, and I think the Torii is very well set up by Steve and I'm not wanting to change the signature in any way.

Plus. . . hundreds of hours to "burn in". . . I could do without that.

I'd like an A/B comparison between fully broken in stock Torii Mk III versus the V-capped Torii Mk III.  Any takers?  

I've spent more to mod equipment ($600 for a Squeeze Box 3 and $700 to have Bud Purvine EnABL my Fostex F200A drivers), but I feel that those were even bigger values.  I could be wrong.  

Got my Zen Torii Mk III, w/ VCAPS, going thru break-in period now the sound changes daily, by the minute actually for the better. Interesting.http://www.decwarhttps://www.decware.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/yabb21/cheesy...

Will do. So far the bass is fat and resolution is not good to be expected. The 88 db speaker I have may be marginal but can't tell yet ultimately. Hoping to get higher efficiency speakers if needed. Otherwise it goes fairly loud overall but nothing like my transistor amp did. Break in is what it is. Does anyone else have VCAPS in their Torii III?

FS TORII is listed here as well https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1303931629

Karl is a local friend in Ohio. The amp is broken in and sounding very well. Great amp! Seller just has other projects that are more important right now.

Did you also see this one mac5u: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1311189930

Hey guys, there seem to be a couple threads talking about the v-caps Torii. On one ...

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1305989115/5#5

Doug has V-Cap Torii and used the Esoteric breakin CD most of a few days and has amazing sound when he reported with only 3 weeks play. I decided to check the Esoteric CD out and just ordered one. The following review is an interesting story about the Isotek CD, which is apparently the precursor to the Esoteric one. It is used by Esoteric and Genesis on their own gear and reported to cut massive amounts of burnin time. I am all for that!

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html

Hey there Pale, I look forward to it too! I had one shipped form Galen Carol today. Isn't it amazing how connection with the internet can connect like-minded questers and be so useful? I love it!

This might be the most in-depth review of a Torii MK III with V-Caps so far.  The post itself begins on 04-30-11 but the thread itself, while short, is informative.  I don't think it is the same person who recently put up his V-Cap modded Torii for sale.  

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1283540711&openfrom&1&...

Does anyone know if the TORII  Mk.III that Tone Audio is going to review has VCAPs?

I don't think it does, if it did he'd probably have mentioned it in this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=244147&highlight=torii

I posted this on Audiogon (pending moderator approval) ....1st post there I guess. Ah just another singer in the Decware choir!

Quote:

TP/Jeff's initial impressions posted on audiocircle:

"It's a really special amplifier...

Quite possibly the best EL 34 amp I've heard.  All the qualities of my favorite amps rolled into one!"

Thanks Michael. Looks like my post got chopped down by 2/3. Ah well.

Lon, I agree. I would rather read--and I think the vast majority of people unfamiliar with Decware would be better served by reading--a review of stock tubes. That would be the Decware voice.

I guess only Steve(?) knows what he sent TP/Jeff for review.

I agree that a review with the stock tubes would be the best introduction to Decware for TP's readers.

I'm hoping TP/Jeff does compare the TORII MK III to the other high end
amps he has access to.

After TP/Jeff, I think Steve should send a TORII MK III to Art Dudley at Stereophile to see how it stacks up against his favorite Shindo amps.

Up to a point, there is some merit in the goal of such a policy. If the goal is to make sure that a designer/manufacturer is sound, reputable, and reliable, that would be one surrogate, but what about the rather significant number of manufacturers who sell direct? Ohm comes to mind as an example of a long-time manufacturer that sells direct with a very generous in-home trial policy. So, if that policy is exclusive, it is a disservice to readers. If it is but one of several alternative benchmarks, it would be tolerable.

Yeah, the writing at 6moons often reminds me of high school purple prose ("if I sound dense, obtuse, murky, and mysterious, perhaps people will regard me as meaningful"). Undisciplined writing is fine for coffee house poetry or beer bong romances, but it does little for technical or auditory elucidation of fine distinctions between equipment and sounds. However, they did a nice writeup of the ZDAC. And I think they did one on the original Triode, right?  Would love to see a Torii review. And of course, with my choice of the Ltra, I am hoping to see some in-depth reviews of that.

lovethemusic, I got the same response when I contacted that fellow. And certainly, when I saw the speakers he was selling (fairly inefficient electrostats, I believe), I could see where he did not have the best matchup possible. But as you noted, I think he was having a hard time figuring out his strategy.

Glad to hear the Mk III is sounding so good. As for speakers, well.......

I have looked high and low for such or a similar comparison. Unless someone here on the forums has done so, it would appear not to be the case. That is a review I would enjoy reading.

I thought I'd weigh in on this as well. It's a long journey, these V-caps, but worth it in my opinion. I'm using a Torii mkII from May 2009 and in October 2010 I modified the amp with V-Cap coupling caps (note I used the CuTF caps, the copper-foil V-caps, not the tin-foil V-caps). Some background: my amps are 2 years old and have been trouble-free. I added the CCE/Hazen grid mod about 1.5 years ago, then the V-caps about 13 months ago. I knew these would take a long time to break-in....and they did, right at about 1000 hrs by my count. I actually tracked the hours each day for the first several months. After that I didn't play the amps quite as much. I never thought the amps sounded bad while the caps were breaking in (note that the CuTF version of these caps is rumored to sound a bit less clinical), but....what I've always heard when installing a new part is that the amp (or pre-amp) for first week or two, will give you a glimpse of what the final sound will be, then the break-in starts and the sound changes over time until the break-in is complete. The "glimpse" about a year ago with these caps was revealing. The amp, for a few days and only at times, opened-up like I've never heard. Then, for the next 12 months it constantly changed, never sounding harsh, but just OK and somewhat unexciting. The challenge with something that takes this long is patience and remembering what the amp sounded like stock and also right after installing the V-caps. After 6-10 months I thought the amps sounded good, but I recalled them sounding magical, though only briefly in October 2010 right after installing the V-Caps and, after several months, you begin to wonder if this "is it". Well, after 12 months (and I'm sure at least 1000 hours) they are finally settling in. At this point the positive day-to-day improvement in the sound is unmistakable. I can only say that, for me, these caps have now proven to be worth the wait. The Torii simply sounds much better in just about every way than it did stock. Bass is deeper and more tuneful. Vocals are better separated and articulated. The sound is more dynamic and more exciting, yet also more relaxing to listen to. The sound is simply more alive and lifelike in every way. I'd like to add that I've not changed anything else in my system over this time, so I know that the improvement is solely in the amp. I encourage those with patience and a desire to really hear all that this amp can produce to try these caps.

Wow! A year to break in caps to optimal performance makes me feel sick. Isn't there a way to "cook" the caps to get you there faster?

My V-caps took about 2 months with regular listening to fully break in. They continue to season for a long time after, but after a month of heavy use they should be 95% there.

You will know right off if you going to like what V-caps do.

I realize that,in most solid state stereos, the caps can last for around maybe `20 years with degraded performance at that point of their life, what's the life of the caps in the torrii mkIII?  At that point in time I would upgrade to vcaps, I just ordered about100+ caps to refresh My carver tfm 35 amp, they are needed, sounds are slighltly sort of starting to blast out, I think it's still worth My while, and is a very nice sounding amplifier. the vcaps upgrade seems like a winner for Me in the torrii later on.....