Dennis,

  I use them, a lot of them in fact!  But when you think about it, diffusers don't make any noise, they just set there, so I guess there is really nothing exciting to talk about. At least not as exciting as someones new speakers or amps.

 Now the real exciting part, is how shocked everyone is, when all at once they pull all there room treatment out of the room and see how much the diffusers helped they're gear sound better. Everything just goes to Sh*t, if you know what I mean.

 We sell a right smart amount of diffusers, as many commercially as for individuals, it seems like we never have an order page sans diffusers.

But you have to admit, unless you live alone, or have your own room in the basement, they are not particularly wife friendly, yet, I have somewhere here, some pictures one customer took for me with at least 20 pairs of diffusers in the family room of a beautiful home, I thought he was single at first, but he's married, and how he has them set up, just looks great. I didn't think he was ever going to stop ordering them. He didn't cover them, just painted them black, and it works.

BobZ

Dennis,

 I will be seeing you in  a few weeks, I called Steve Monday and reminded him how close Defect actually was, I love putting him in panic mode.....I've been in panic mode for several weeks now, so I thought he should join in the fun too!!!

BobZ

Bump,Bumpity,Bummp!

It seems as though there are very few of us out here that are interested in taking the time to construct something this difficult.

Paul, this could be your contribution to our community.

dennis

Paul I am struck by your magnanimous approach and am very interested in the diy of room diffusers. I have a limited budget currently but extreme skill in woodworking and cabinet making. With nearly 35 years in my trade and a large well equipped shop at my disposal I would be thrilled to have someone break down the math to bite size parts and would be willing to provide the feedback to extend the reach of your proposal to anyone wanting to learn. I have built a range of speakers from Lyn Olsen Ariels for a friend to a set of Parker Sig 95s for myself. I have not been able to buy my desired amp from Steve yet but am heading there as soon as finances allow. Count me as an interested party when the urge to share your experience happens.   mahalo, mike

Easy to build for sure but "easy" ends at building. Painting, hanging and looking at them is another matter. I would like something that works and  is aesthetic also. Additionally, I would like to do my ceiling. I have no issue with hard work but like my efforts to produce beauty and performance.  I am still looking..........     mahalo, mike

Hello Mike,

You make at least the third person now who's shown any real interest in creating a listening environment worthwhile for that intention.

(Wow, three people! Something's wrong with that picture) Got to be at least a couple more out there??? I guess the unheard lurkers have to be factored in as well.

Well anyway, just for those that care such as yourself, I will be glad to post some drawings, parts lists, instructions, details, etc... up concerning several different approaches in the art of diffusive elements and acoustic enhancement in general.

I.E....Actual detailed information on d.i.y. projects of known credibility to their worthiness. The best bang for your buck without spending a small fortune. Although the end result shall be unparalleled by any degree of cost when compared directly to similar products.

The majority of cost for these devices lies within the labor & shipping factors! D.I.Y. here allows for an entire room to be professionally modified with the best of techniques when acoustical treatment becomes paramount. If done correctly, a full treatment could be accomplished in a 'stealth'-like manner within the room while also maintaining a decor scheme, color coordinate approach.

I personally like the idea of integrating the units flush within the wall studs and the drywall surface itself. With simple detachable grills covered in sound transparent material of matching color, the treatment really becomes unaware of itself within the overall presentation of the room decor.

'Fully-functional' but non-obtrusive. I believe that should satisfy all parties concerned in an agreeable manner.

I do not tend to take the simplistic approach to things unless it serves the need without the addition of complexity for which to make it justifiably better. I do try to maintain a balance of elements that matter the most for the task at hand, without compromise to performance when considering the pettier of factors that are irrelevant to the end result of purpose.

I do try to factor in options for reasonable aesthetics as much as possible without creating any detrimental set backs to the units performance. Moderation here is really important. Sometimes, a bit more compromise in this area is important if the unit is to be displayed within a well decorated room. I believe that with good creative skill and a little imagination, many things are possible to bring all of these factors together into a workable solution.

As long as we use audio transparent materials to cover the critical areas that provide the function (the entire sequence grid), without hampering it's effectiveness, then all is well. (No pun intended...really)

I am going to provide a technique with the source links for which one can apply a special coating of felt like material in a spray-on manner.

This provides a wide range of colors to choose from that end up with a texture similar to that of fancy jewelry box lining. The cost is very affordable and most importantly, beautiful with a professional touch.

Another finish method without the complexity, is to pre-finish your parts in the 'whole' material stage BEFORE cutting the parts. This way, the post-assembly finishing requires only a minimal touch-up phase, which should be quick & easy to do with great results.

Whether it be a painted surface or that of exotic veneer finish, this concept of pre-fab preparation makes a lot of sense when it comes to near perfect finish qualities with very minimal work involved.

If you have ever tried to spray paint something that has nowhere for the applied air pressure to travel through without build-up, you know that this task is nearly impossible to do effectively. The end result would be far short from desirable trying to do it in this manner. You would be better off applying the paint by brush, but disappointed by the vast amount of time this would require to paint the individual well detail plus the mess it is likely to create.

The best options are either total covering with an acoustical material after assembly, or pre-finishing the material prior to parts cutting and assembly. Once the unit is together, it is already finished with just a few final touch-ups needed to cover certain edges exposed from the cutting of parts. When paint comes into play however, it is important to note where gluing boundaries intersect, as you want to insure the glue bonds correctly without being affected by the paint. (Chemical compatibility is always a major factor to consider)

Imagine how pretty the wells would be if an entire MDF sheet was pre-veneered as a whole prior to the parts cutting. The parts could be cut in a consecutive manner so that during the assembly stage, the wood grain will match in sections as it did whole. The divider panels should also be pre-painted in whole sheets of material (both sides) prior to cutting the individual parts. *This could present a problem when gluing if the glue and paint are non-compatible. Just one of those factors to keep in mind.

Let creativity have no boundary and use your imagination. There are many different ways to come up with an effective solution for which to create a low cost, highly functional, highly attractive product. A winner in all aspects of consideration.

So, I heard your calling for which I shall respond with something that I hope will suit your needs. Just remember that there are always alternative methods for which to bring into play. My techniques usually incorporate a complimentary blend of absorption built into the diffusion designs. That is not always the case, but generally it is a good practice not only from a cost savings perspective, but also a space saving, practical perspective without losing anything in the process regarding performance potential.

This is a time permitted process on my part. Please allow a reasonable amount of time to put this information together. I shall start with the plans for building my full-scale prime-23 unit as shown in the photo's posted at the other link.

In the mean time, you should consider the finishing aspect ahead of time, as something that I described above may be the solution that is best for your situation. Know what you want here in advance so that expensive changes are not made mid-stream in the assembly process.

With a unit consisting of narrow .5" wells such as this, the most practical method for finish would be a covering with acoustically transparent material. Large sheets of speaker grill cloth can be ordered from Parts Express at a reasonable cost with many colors to choose from. I would either paint or veneer the outer cabinet sections where visible.

A platform will be required not only as a sturdy foundation for the diffuser units to perch securely, but to also bring them to the appropriate height within the room boundaries. I built mine from 3/4 MDF in a partitioned set of sealed cavities, which could easily be transformed into individually tuned Helmholtz resonators for troublesome low frequency correction.

Again, there are always alternative approaches available for consideration. Many of these techniques can effectively be integrated within very smart hybrid designs. I will merely offer a few ideas of my own which I believe will provide dramatic improvement within an intelligent approach for the d.i.y. constructor.

More to come soon. Please have patience and don't hesitate to ask questions concerning this. I will try to cover all aspects with minimal confusion. If there is a problem, bring it into focus for correction.

This should be a walk in the park for all of you experienced woodworkers,  and not too bad for the first time novice.

I am in a minor state of chaos right now following my move back west. This means that I need to find all of my data and material before I can get any information put together and posted. I'm working on it. You should begin to see details as a work in progress very soon.

Hope this gets you on the right track to where you want to be.

Paul.

Paul, I can tell you have done this before and am excited at the prospect of guidance in the effort. I have a full panel shop with spray capacity for most material. Vacuum veneering and laminating are integral to most of my work also. I like your concept of speaker cloth covering the working diffusers as i want my room to stealthily perform. As a side note, standard mdf is a poor performing material in Hawaii's climate but mdx (exterior grade mdf) is readily available in 19mm (3/4") dimension. I can access other material in 1/8" size. Overall, I await your largesse with patience and expectation of some fun.   mahalo!     mike

Dear Paul,

I just found out you have heard of panambiophonics. What diffusers would I need for it? Will I still need the entire wall? How about the ceiling? And what about absorbtion? (This feels like starting from the very beginning again)

PS: Where should I post my questions? They are scattered throughout three topics.


Yours, Sincerely,
Wolfgang

Wolfgang,

I feel like the National Enquirer rag for the inquiring minds that want to know!

On a serious note, let me try to answer these questions in general context.

These are very complex issues that all require a good deal of discussion and comprehension to do them justice. All of which I hope to work into my design projects somewhere down the road.

These are all vital issues, which must be recognized within the consideration of acoustical control and the general enhancement of the listening experience.

Concerning Ambiophonic principles, I am intrigued by the technology and what it has to offer. I am looking forward to integrating these principles into my audio perspective in the near future. This will be the turning point when I actually build a dedicated isolation room of studio quality for which I can take full advantage of this modern approach.

Yes, it is the beginning. We have to start somewhere. I am well past that point, so this will be like a review for me.  

Look for a new thread dedicated to these ideas as they are formulated into actual design projects for real world testing. We will keep everything there for easy navigation and control.

Thanks and keep tuned.

Paul.

Certainly NO  bleedy "lack-of-interest" nonsense on my part.

I am very interested in seeing how this goes, fellas.
I am also speaking for the dozen or so half-interested, PW,  "good husbands"  who are interested, but remain among the Lurker category.

Just to keep it alive.......... let the fun begin-please?

Good question. Would love to see it resuscitated. I am not in a position to play a material role right now, but soon I will be deploying my all new, early all-Decware system, and then will be turning more attention to room treatment and then eventually to ambiophonic possibilities.