FWIW, I'm using a 1950's (Canadian made ) Marconi 12au7 .
A huge soundstage, excellent separation of instruments/musicians, and an overall non-fatiguing, "listen for hours" musical presentation.
As an aside, I'm using mine with ESP off- haven't spent any time comparing it with the "on" setting yet.
This is one fine player, IMHO!
Don

Oh I know Steve, but see I'm going to use the player with the PS Audio power cord, so the ZCD has to compare to that. . . .

Thanks for your impressions.

I hear almost all you hear in the ZCD. I think it's a fine player.  I don't mean to appear to be ragging on the player, I think it's an achievement and so much better than the usual players below this price point, probably some above.  Still, for me, I don't quite get the right sound on piano for me, yet, and piano is what I judge a system by.  Nor have I gotten used to the forward nature.

I'm also using the same interconnects you are.  I've rolled the tubes I have and I have enough that I don't think I should buy more just to see how they work here.  

I must say though that at this point the ES Sony Blu-Ray is a better player for me, has that ease and the bit of laid backness I don't have in the ZCD . . .yet.  It's getting a bit better day by day.

I'm likely to keep it, there's always a need for a spare and it would jazz up my bedroom system. (I'm spending a lot more time in my bedroom than ever which is a good thing.)  I've also decided to try out a NAD model that is heavily discounted that seems to do SACDs RIGHT, the price is very nice at Audio Advisor, and I have a lot of SACDs that I miss a bit. . . .

http://nadelectronics.com/products/dvd-players/T585-Universal-DVD-Player

I'm looking for the best source for me. . . it was the DEC685 for a long time, and if it hadn't started to exhibit some digital distortion on some discs and skips on others I'd still be using that nonstop.

Glad you're that happy Randy.

I must say I'm relaxing deeply into the sound of the NAD player. . . no fatigue.

I've been using it with all the players and without all the players, using it both with and without all the players, to see what each sound with and without it.

They each sound best WITH the ZBox to my ears.  The ZBox is one helluva product Steve!

I have the ZCD spinning a mono cd for almost exactly a week, under my bed.  I'll put it back in the system soon and see how it sounds.  This week I've been enjoying playing SACDs and HDCDs on the NAD.

Randy,

Yes it probably could be done but. . . using the ZBox as a preamp in this system in this room in the past has been . . . well. . . not really as effective, I can't get the volume range right and in the very best range for the amps etc. and there's a brittle thinness I can't abide now.  (This wasn't made clear to me until I added the CSP2 and it diedn't add forwardness necessarily).(Also, I don't live alone now, and this system serves as the dvd/Blu-Ray source for the house, and I need to have the CSP2 for switching and control and will not use another amp and speakers.)  I may try it again in the future but I don't believe it will be any different.  Also. . .the Sony ES player and the NAD don't have that forward nature through the CSP2 or through the ZBox and the CSP2.  So I'm not sure the CSP2 can be fingered in that manner.

I'm going to let the ZCD spin and season for a while longer then try it again.  But I think that the problem is the very accurate and revealing nature of the machine, coupled with the same in the amps and speakers . . .more and more I need something that is just a bit less so, and can make recordings sound "good" rather than just what they really are.  I have thousands of cds that aren't going to be relaxing and endearing sounding through the ZCD as it was a week ago when I put it aside, but do sound nonfatiguing through the NAD (and did for the most part through the DEC685, at least the last three or four years).

I know we have different tastes regarding playback texture and detail, and I'm very happy the ZCD has been so successful in your system.

Hi to all (especially Randy and Lon),

It's been a long time since a post from me. But, I'm very interseted in your ZCD impressions thus far.

I have not seen any comment on the factory adjustable output levels available on the ZCD. Does it come standard with 2 mcv and with up to 5mcv available? That was my impression from the product info. Does anyone have a higher mcv level and are you happy with that option?

Thanks, Gary

Lon,

Thanks for the reply.

I extend my sympathies to you for the loss of your wife. When I last was envolved with the forum I know you were struggling with issues of her illness and care. My thoughts are with you.

I still have the radial 1.5s, but continue to find the right amp to drive them. I have a Vaughn Audio Carina (1.8 watts in triode, 3.5 in ultralinear) which Eddie eventually sent me after struggling to build a more powerful EL34 based amp. Gee, that was almost 4 years ago now. The radials seem pretty under-powered to me in my room. Anyway, I was thinking I could get more out of my current cd player/amp combo if I had a cd player with a higher output.

Do you think that would help improve the amp power to speaker sensitivity (92db/w) equation? Just how much of a difference would that make? I am ignorant on this issue. But, thanks in advance for any thoughts - from anyone.

Gary

Hi Randy,

I'm glad to see your still around. You may not remember, but we meet at Decfest '04 - where I meet you, Steve, Zigi and Eddie. Not to make too much of it, but I thought you had a Vaughn amp yourself.

Anyway, the Carina seems just too underpowered for my setup and I am just loking for an economical way to boost the output.

Steve, can you give some insights on the ZCD output and its effect on the overall spl output? What could that do for me?

Thanks for your help.

Gary

Thanks Steve,

I do have an intetgrated amp, but it looks like the ZCD may not help me that much. Regretably, I know you are right  ::). I have tried valiently to get the amp I need, but it just hasn't worked out.

Well, not all of us get it right every time  :-[

Thanks for your advise. (I am still very happy with the 1.5s  ;D

Gary

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the update.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend this year. I live in southern Oregon and it's just too much for me to travel out there right now.

But, I know you'll most likely be there and I will be thinking of all you chaps.

Gary

Thanks for posting those impressions.  (And the kind words).

I'm still letting the ZCD spin away and season in another room.  I think of adding it back in, but remember the bite and the fatigue, and I'm happy with the NAD player I'm using (very) (and enjoying SACDs and HDCD discs quite a lot) and so I'm not in a hurry.  And if as you say the machine is still breaking in after three months, then I'm doing the right thing.

If I still can't relax into it when I finally do put it into the system, I'll probably consider parting with it.

Doorman,
I fogot to add that part about the soundstage.  I was away for a week and had my system turned off at the isolation transformer.  When I turned it on I noticed a slightly deeper and wide soundstage that persisted over several CDs.  I checked my left speaker, thinking I had left the connections reversed (I sometimes reverse a speaker connection on albums and CDs, which often widens the soundstage at the expense of tight base).  The connections were not reversed.

I believe the dac is 16 bit/ 8 times oversampling.

Lin

Okay, i'm continuing to try to get a handle on this player.

I can see why Randy would sell his front end in favor of this one, especially as I think Randy loves a tight and focused sound more than I (I admit to liking more a relaxed and laid back sound, sounds more like actual music than reproduced music to me that way). This machine with Steve's mods really give you the real deal on the disc.  Which often is not a good thing in my case; I have thousands (literally) of discs that could use more sweetening than this machine will allow.

I've discovered that the listening fatigue I had experienced the first weeks with this machine has somehow dissipated.  The six weeks of running constantly under my bed must have accomplished that.  

In comparison to my other favorite sources, this machine remains a bit more "forward" than I'm apparently comfortable with, and there is less bass presence* than I'd like.  I've rolled tubes and these features remain within the tonal changes that tube rolling brings about. . . . I think this machine is very neutral and is showing me the problems that I have with my system and room.  I do tend to shelve down the ribbon tweeters in my RL2s a lot, and the geometry of my large room must be hampering me.  I'm not really able to add room treatment and I'm not changing speakers soon it appears so. . .I'm trying to get used to this as I don't want to add a subwoofer (don't think that's the cure) and I really do want to like this ZCD machine.  It's a quality playback device, no doubt of that!

I've ordered a fresh tube of my favorite tube and I'm sending my ZBox back in for attention (and the ZCD DOES sound better with the ZBox than without).  I'm going to keep spinning discs and listening and "acclimating" myself as best I can.  I really WANT to love this thing!

* well, maybe there's less bass presence. Maybe there's just something that's fundamentally different in the way this player interprets things than the DVD player sources (DEC685, Sony ES Blu-Ray player, NAD T585) I've been using and used to.  DVD players always seem to present cds in a certain way that is a tiny bit smoother, warmer, than dedicated cd players, at least to ME in my system.  I do miss a tiny rounding, a tiny bit of warmth that I think I'm used to and just isn't there with the ZCD and shouldn't be if it's a "coloration" of a DVD player. . . . The Decware products are just so clean and clear, I mean the ZCD, the CSP2, the SE34L Monoblocks just don't color the sound. . . maybe I'd be happier, get that touch of warm sweetening I seem to be missing, with a more classic sounding tube amp, Eddie V's, a revamped vintage one, etc. with the ZCD giving me the unvarnished truth on the disc?  Something to ponder I guess.

Oh yes, my Decware system is my entire entertainment system in the living room-dining room area and I'm using the Blu-Ray player for Blu-Ray and DVD discs. . . comparing it to the ZCD on occasion the last few days as well.  It is smoother and warmer and a bit more laid back than the ZCD. . . I could easily live with just it, but the ZCD continues to improve and has more "depth" as far as stage and image.

Looks nice.

I've never liked the sound of sand and lead but then I may not have gotten the tuning right ever.  I have decided I prefer Herbie Audio Lab Isoball footers to the Mapleshade brass AND Isoblocks so I use those under components and platform, and have the CSP2 sitting on top of these on top of the ZCD (the ZBox is by now back at Decware).

Sounding good.  Still not completely satisfied, but may be in the near future if the ZCD keeps improving.  Of course I don't have (and wouldn't be able to in this house) SO Imperials, a definite "deficit"!

Happy listening as you heal my friend!

Randy,

None of my other players have stock cords.  I have PS Audio XStream cords of two types and Decware power cords on all my other units.

I have a sort of IEC converter I can wire in to use other power cords and probably will.  I'm trying to get a handle on the sound of the unit just as it is. . . and decide if I'm ultimately going to keep it forever (I probably will) and will then splice in t hat IEC plug and use a PS Audio cord on the machine.  I believe that power cords DO make a difference. I regret not ordering this machine with the IEC option!

As for the additonal mass and weight for the player, I really find that using the big brass Mapleshade footers necessitates adding some sort of weight to most components.  I haven't found that necessary with teh Herbie's Audio Lab Isocups, which is nice.

Lon,

I've been following your comments on the ZCD and have been a little surprised and I guess disappointed that the adjectives "forward and tart" or "lacking warmth or smoothness" have remained a consistent theme in all of your posts.  Usually when something like this happens I get to read a post about "finding the culprit" and all is good... so I have to wonder why it's not happening here.

After pondering this for some time, I wondering if the difference between output of the various players is causing this impression.  I would be willing to bet that if I made the output level of the ZCD adjustable so you could find the sweet spot with your CSP2 that we could make the player sound considerably warmer.  

If I was at your house right now, I would probably be experimenting with the CSP2 output level controls on the back vs. the volume control on the front to find where everything sounds and works best for the warmest sound.  Then if that didn't work, drop the output level of the ZCD.  This can be also be done by using a 12AU7 in the ZBOX and adjusting the output level control to about 1/2.



Steve

Steve, thanks again for your attention.  In the last few days I have been tampering with the gain on the CSP2 and I find that with very little gain the ZBox sounds very rich and warm on most well-recorded material and most of my archive.  It has also been breaking in over the last few weeks and getting nicer overall.

A wonderful machine (I've really been saying this all along) that is fast becoming irreplaceable in the system.  If only it played SACDs!

Thanks for your guidance and insight.  Here's hoping it's this good or better when I have the modded ZBox back from you.

Bob, thanks.  I have 6N2Ps in all the appropriate sockets on my CSP2 and my SE34L Monoblocks. . . and cryo'd RCA 12BH7A in the ZCD, very close to what you have.  I have so so many tubes I don't want to buy another N.O.S. or two but if I see reasonable ones I'll look for RCA 12AU7As.

Quote:


Well ..... it's about time .....

I know that we don't always hear things exactly the same, but the sound you were describing was not at all what I was hearing ..... I have to wonder how much of it was due to the power cord  ?

Whatever the reason, I am extremely happy to hear that the ZCD is working for you ..... goodness knows that you have paid your dues to get it where it needs to be .....

The fact that you were not ecstatic about the sound initially does nothing but enhance the respect that your opinions deserve ..... it proves that you are not a "homer" for everything that has the Decware name plate ..... the stamp of approval has to be earned.

Tim Adams paid me a visit last week and was very complimentary about the sound I am getting from the ZCD ..... and Tim is not easily impressed these days.

Having owned some pretty respectable digital front end equipment as a basis for comparison, I am extremely pleased with the sound I'm getting from the ZCD ..... it is a screaming bargain and I can't imagine it being the weak link in any high end audio system .....

I think we have "chosen well" ......

Happy listening,

Randy

Lon,

There may be one more factor that is affecting the overall sound I am hearing from the ZCD ..... for the past few months, I have been treating my CDs with a product I heard at the last HornFest at Ed Schilling's place ..... Ultra Bit Platinum CD Treatment.

I have no idea what this product does, but one of the claims is that it makes CDs sound "more analog" and based on my experience I feel that it's a fair claim.

As you correctly observe, the ZCD adds none of the coloration that many players do (especially tubed units) and is very honest in its presentation.  It's possible that the ZCD is "honestly" portraying whatever the beneficial effect is on the treated CD.

Everyone who attended the HornFest heard a dramatic difference (read improvement) in the treated CDs and it seems reasonable to me that the more accurate and resolving the player, the more obvious the difference would be.

Whatever the case ..... I am very happy with the results .....

As far as I know, Ed is still a distributor for this product and it can be ordered from his website.

Randy

Quote:


What a nice "problem" to have ..... I hope to have the same problem some day .....

I can appreciate why you don't want to get started with this.  Truthfully, it not only involves a financial investment to treat the disks but the time to do it.  To treat 10,000 CDs ..... I would probably be old and gray long before the job was finished .....

With that many disks, you have no doubt chosen the best course by making changes in your system to get the desired sound ..... and healthy food and clothing are always a wise investment .....

Randy