YES, please!! A phono stage! I have been wanting one of your ZP2.0s, but it remains outside my budget.  I have been looking at kits by other manufacturers to replace my less-than-satisfying SS phono stage...

active tube XO / line drive
prettier volume control knobs!
larger power supply transformer  ;D
DAC
From what I can remember the Zen phono stage was very nice indeed, but a simpler kit would be a winner. Would 6N1P or 6922 provide enough gain for those of us happy with moving magnets?


parametric equalizer for Bose 901  ;D

special order wood bases in other species ( eg Cherry, Mahogany)

Lectraset lettering kit for "Custom made for (your name here)" vanity labels

I suspect you're gonna busy around Rancho Decca  mid Oct
to Xmas - thought about starting a gift registry for those wives and friends that just don't know what to buy anymore?

This is definitely going to be my first DIY project (notwithstanding the warning on the site).  It looks like something I could do - plus I've got a couple of friends with a lot of solder-slinging experience who can help me out.

My wife requests a remote ???

It would also be cool if you could order the plate and the metal box to match the Select (probably more difficult to add holes to?)  Do you anticipate a "Select" version of the preamp plate in the future (like before Christmas?)

Someday I'll probably be in the market for a phono stage, but that will be a while - Steve, I can't believe that you came out with this - have you been spying on my internet surfing?

1. A passive preamp, or kit, that uses the S&B TX102 TVC (Stevens and Billington TX102 Transformer Volume Control) assuming it is COMPLETELY transparent when properly implemented.  This passive must of course work better in some way with the SE84CS, SV83M/S, and other Zen amps than the current crop of pre's otherwise what's the point?  

In theory, this would be the ultimate in a preamp - no caps, tubes, or resistors in the signal path - just wire and switches... Very minimalistic Zen-like, no? Of course it must also WORK, which I have not had the opportunity to hear for myself.  What I have read, is that when it does work (sytem synergy) it works F A N T A S T I C.  But we know that opinions are cheap on the net... so the Decmaster (Steve) needs to give a listen .

The name? It's obvious...  the Zen TVC Preamp (ZTVC).

2. If a completely passive pre does not work well, then a active tubed preamp, or integrated amp/kit that utilizes the TX102 in order to (further) minimize the number of caps and resistors in the signal path.  I think?... they call this output transformer coupled instead of coupling caps?  Maybe this is cost prohibitive?

3. An amp that works well with the ZTVC if the present ones do not - if that's possible

related links...

http://www.stevens-billington.co.uk/page102.htm
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diy_kits/django.htm

[quote author=sargeantbargearse  link=1061610565&amp/0#4 date=1061631945]

a cheap(er) swith for a few different inputs (just two or three inputs would be enough for most).  would be great to put this on the existing plate preamp.

craig
[/quote]

Sarge:  

I've found a very inexpensive series of selector switches at a local parts shop that I've been quite happy with.  Lorlin - $6 (canadian) for plastic body, sealed, silver plated contacts, from 1 - 4 poles, 12 to 3 positions, ( 3 pole would allow the signal grounds to be switched as well - some seem to think this could help reduce noise from "deselected" components)

This is a much better sounding switch than the open deck device included in the Foreplay.   To be fair, Doc makes no bones about using "cost effective" parts - if you build his kit correctly it will work; if you want to then use it as the backbone for your own experimentation and spend 10 times over on milspec, tweak approved boutique parts - knock yourself out - and post your findings.  That's what the brotherhood of DIY audio is supposedly about - not the self-aggrandizing BS and trolling  of which we've seen too much hereabouts lately.


Brad:  with all due respect, you've posted links to a couple of very high quality TVC ( the prices of either I've seen are higher than a single Select) .  No doubt there are more modestly priced TVC or other passive controls (including kits and DIY designs)  on the market or internet.

May we disagree on the merits of passives - I've heard only about 3, and found all of them lacking some ineffable quality.  
That's just my personal experience.

But I think what is  more germaine is that all of us who have listened at any length to Steve's products would agree that he has a talent for designing very musical active devices, with a common sonic signature and aethestic.  I'm not sure that we need another "black box"

If I  thought a passive would work for me, I'd probably take the lazy way out and buy the Creek OB12

http://www.creekaudio.com/products/obh/obh_10_12.asp


anyone want to borrow the soapbox now, I'm going for a beer.

cheers fellow solder slingers

Thanks for bringing this up Cosimo.  I think I would very much like to see a Zen stereo amp with a pair of EL34s and TUBE rectification.  I wouldn't be able to BUILD it, but I'd like to have one available!

I'd like to see a Zen Plate amplifier that complements the Zen Plate Preamp (soon).

I think the idea with the Zen Plates is to offer a solid kit foundation that is tweakable.  Rather than make a bunch of specific plates with varying features, it would make sense to offer the basic units and then create a tweakers library of possible modifications (contributions by Decware and kit builders).  

This allows Steve to keep the price down, it gives us a nicely researched basic DIY kit, and it facilitates all the tweaking we love to do.

I can really see this thing catching on.  For the money, it's a no brainer.  Once word of this begins to circulate, the ranks of the DecHeads will be swelling.

My 2 cents,

Jerry

Jerry, nice of you to say, but trust me, I can build huge glass cutting tables, have replaced the transmission in a 70 Caddy (try THAT some time!) but not electronic items.  I tried a bit years ago and I suck badly at this, and don't have the time to wade through all my errors and inadequacies.

[quote author=chrisby  link=1061610565&amp/0#9 date=1061703646]

Brad:  with all due respect, you've posted links to a couple of very high quality TVC ( the prices of either I've seen are higher than a single Select) .  No doubt there are more modestly priced TVC or other passive controls (including kits and DIY designs)  on the market or internet.

May we disagree on the merits of passives - I've heard only about 3, and found all of them lacking some ineffable quality.  
That's just my personal experience.
[/quote]

Chris,  
 I think many people have pingeon holed all passive pre's together which is not accurate IMO - either design/technical wise or sound quality wise (from the reviews I have read).  I don't think you can say that it's a given that a tranformer based passive volume control would sound anything like the "normal" resistive ones.  They work using COMPLETELY different principles. I have not yet ready ANY review that describes a TVC based pre's as lacking dynamics - which is quite common with resistive (stepped attenuator) passive pre's.

 I'm not saying that they sound good, or better than a well designed tubed pre, just that it merits looking into, especially from the reports I have seen.  For exaple I saw one report from a guy saying that he like the Antique Sound Labs TVC passive unit better than ANY preamp he has ever used, and he listened to allot of "high-end" units.

And there is NO DOUBT that the stepped attenuators' resistors as well as output coupling capacitors, found even in the best preamps (like my ZTPRE ), add their own signature (coloration?) to the sound.  Of course, a TVC probably also has it's own signature as any transformer does, but it remains to be seen to what extent and how good it *may* be.

[quote author=Lon  link=1061610565&amp/15#15 date=1061763455]...have replaced the transmission in a 70 Caddy (try THAT some time!)... [/quote]
Ow, Lon!! I feel your pain! I once switched out the trannie in a '68 Pontiac GTO.  It was a TurboHydro400 and I swear that it weighed about 500 pounds.  I thought it was going to crush the transmission jack!

Yeah Richard, and with the Caddy you had so much more to remove and then reinstall to get at the tranny!  A major pain!

You might consider a monophonic version of the SE84 kit with an output transformer optimized for subwoofer frequencies.  I believe that would fit on a 6x10" plate.  I don't know how much current it would draw.  It would be nice to have SET sound for our bass frequencies.  

Phono stage please! (I'll settle for MM)
tube xo for biamping as well.

The price is right, and thanks (no surprise) for no PC boards.  Also thanks for the tube rectification.  I would love to hear one.

Dave

I can just see it now...  we take a medium quality receiver with a motorized volume, move the volume control over to the plate amp and string the control wires in between the two.

I guess there's always something useful that can be done with SS equipment.  

I'm the last person to deflect criticism from Dave, but he offers the drivers at a very fair price (actually the lowest I've seen on the internet). He also offers the plans to build his boxes either cheap or free if you buy the drivers from him.
I don't see how providing options for the buyer can be construed as gouging.

[quote author=morrisvet  link=1061610565&amp/15#26 date=1062567989]
As Jeff I wish a ( quality) motorized volume !

Filippo
[/quote]

since any remote controlled volume would require some degree of SS circuitry, perhaps the switching etc of the Creek OBH-12 wouldn't be too offensive?

http://www.creekaudio.com/products/obh/obh_10_12.asp

[quote author=StingRay  link=1061610565&amp/30#32 date=1062812543]
Chrisby,

If I'm not mistaken, the speakers at the bottom of Steve's speaker design page are David Dicks 1.3's.
[/quote]

thanks for the tip - still worth a listen tho!

I seem to recall Steve mentioning in a phone conversation to watch for a reworked version of an old enclosure design of his -  of course timetables can get messed up, and he may even have changed his mind.  I assumed the Fostex system was what he meant.

Quote:


Chrisby, I own the OBH-10 and I bought it hoping to let work it externally, with a rubber band between both knobs but ......it didn't works

Using it in usual mode it deteriorate a lot the signal to me !
....another useless buy  >:(

Quote:


maybe  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Hi Steve,

The Zen plate ZSP-1 looks like a fantastic kit to build.

I was thinking of a 2 plate approach

1 plate for power supply, have various versions like solid state or tube rectification power supply with A/C or D/C options for the tube heaters.

1 plate for line stage, there will be space for options such as plate choke load, output transformer coupled, para feed etc.

With 2 plates, power supply may be reused for different line stages to come, just need to change some resistors to drop the HT to a appropriate level for different line stages.

regards,
Ken Chuang

here's another one


ASL Passive TI review...

"I've tried a variety of passive line stages over the years, most notably the Audio Synthesis Passion, Reference Line Pre-Eminence 2, and Promethean CD-director. I've always liked the neutral character of passive stages, albeit losing a little bit of the sonic fireworks that active stages are capable of. The Promethean has been my reference line stage for a couple years now. In waiting to try some lofty tube stages, I'd figure I'd give the inexpensive Antique Sound Lab Passive TI a try. For $399, not much to lose!

The Antique Sound Lab Passive TI is a unique design. Instead of a resistor "voltage divider" network used by almost all other passive stages, the volume is controlled via a multi-tapped audio-grade transformer, very similar to interstage transformers found in exotic tube stages. The taps and windings on the transformer control the volume gradations. This mundane unit has only three knobs- left volume, right volume, and source selector, plus a tape loop switch. Including tape deck, this unit can accommodate up to five sources. (This has been an issue- some stages offer only two or three.) The volume controls use 12-position selectors to the autoformer taps. Note the unit I ended up getting has the gold face. The silkscreen letter is rather light, which is common for early production units.

Now to the sound. The passive TI has a sonic signature as unique as its design. Macrodynamics and "immediacy" are its strong suits. For small-scale jazz and small-scale classical (acoustic music) sound almost as if the performers are in the room. There is a sense of "bloom" one would associate with "tube sound," even though there are no tubes. (My system at the moment has no tubes!) The bottom end isn't the most-extended, but on the other hand, the bottom was devoid of the congestion which seems to plague most passive and tube stages. Complex passages from well-recorded rock and large-scale classical works are also very convincing. With the natural large-scale dynamics rarely captured by most other stages, including stages five times the modest price of this unit. The sense of realism is eclipsed only by some of the best tube stages, and the bottom is eclipsed only by some of the best solid-state stages. Soundstage is also convincing, with *pinpoint* lateral placement and excellent depth. Not quite "layered" like the best however. The ASL Passive TI will end the notion that all passive stages compress dynamics. This passive stage maintains large-scale dynamics as well as the best active stages out there.

Weaknesses- Nope, the stage is not perfect. When I referred to the "bloom," on some recordings, especially those with a lot of upper midrange energy, this can result in a "mechanical" hardness in the sound. A slight loss of microdynamics. This is most-noticeable with hard rock on heavy-metal, and also classical works with a lot of percussion. Attacks and decays of cymbals, although better than most line stages, have a slight added "sheen." Although not amusical, timbres of instruments seem to possess a common set of overtones- this is not a stage that will make one distinguish a Strad from an Amati, or a Steinway from a Bosendorfer- yet still, in spite of that, the tone is still quite natural. I think the sonic signature is basically a euphonic one, and the best part is, for enjoying music, the ASL passive can be listened to for extended periods of time. Especially when mated with tubes and/or an analog front end. The stage could sound bright with inexpensive solid state and with lesser digital rigs. I would *not* consider this piece "forgiving," and it would mate best with gear that *is* "forgiving." I think in spite of its modest price, this stage will mate best with the expensive stuff. Hopefully, the snob-factor amongst those with lofty systems won't make them discount this killer line stage because of its price.

Overall, the Antique Sound Lab Passive TI is maybe one of the three of four-best stages I've ever tried. And when price is thrown into the equation, it will make a lot of people who blew over two grand on their line stages pull their hair out. Antique Sound Lab has put out one of the best bang-for-the-buck pieces I've encountered in quite some time in the Passive TI line stage. (And I'm not totally certain that the $3000 tube stage I will audition is going to beat it!!) Bravo Antique Sound Lab!! "

I know that Steve has a legendary dislike for digital but it would be great to see what his interpretation of a worthy DAC may be. How to make a DAC that Steve likes!

I believe it would be as great a challenge as the original Zen of making a multi-thousand dollar sounding amp for less than 500 bucks.

I like the idea for a ZenDac as well.  It could be designed for the optimal 2 volt output the Zen's prefer.

Brian touched on this, but how about a mono block subwoofer amp, specifically designed to mate with the WO32 or wicked one.  It could even be a EL34 based PP and probably sound good.

Here's yet another one....
http://www.soniceuphoria.com

Are TVC's the real deal (and upcoming trend) or just another audio fad? ... time will tell...





I really need to turn this TVC stuff into a separate discussion thread.

Brian:  I'm sure lots of folks would argue against it, but my point was really that the power requirements for a sub amp usually dictate either large power supply transformer and substantial heat sinking with SS devices, and/or even larger iron and PP if tubed.  

Potential parts cost notwithstanding, there just isn't a lot of space in the 6x10x2 format of the plate series that Steve is proposing.  Of course the ZenMaster would be best to answer that question

Brad - that's a lot of wire, connectors and solder points for a
"purist" device.    

But seriously, our friend Ed has recently got his-self excited all over again about the CG buffered passive "pre".  That might worth a serious listen - a whole lot less money than any TVC and just idiosyncratic enough to appeal to a lot of us.

What about venturing into pro audio and offering Zen plate Mic preamps?  I'd love to be able to make a Zen recording someday.

Dave

Hey steve. do you have plans for a 5 channel line stage pre. I think this will satisfy the 5 channel HT users out there. if you can, you can just build a 3 channel version, so we can purchase (1) 3 channel plus (1) 2 channel to fit our needs.
I for one believe that there is a sonic difference between just connecting your HT Pre amp directly to your Amp VERSUS putting in a line stage between pre and power. now, most of the HT users uses SS gear, this "add one" is a refreshing idea and may really improve the dynamics and impact of the system.
just my 02 cents

A vacuum tube audio amp for my television is what I would like next.  I believe it ought to be monophonic to avoid creating soundstage events off screen, disconnected from the picture.  A mono version of the SE84c may fit onto this new plate chassis, I don't know.  

Or how about a simple tubed DAC with AES/EBU and Digital coax imputs.  That way guys like me could use it on the Behringer stuff and others could add it to their favorite transport. The Art Audio DAC might be a good building block.

Thanks

- i'd like to see a DAC w/ tube output stage, BUT the DAC having both OPTICAL and COAX based inputs. does anyone here seen one of this type around ?. Steve, maybe you are the first to offer this.

Don't know why I didn't think of this before...

Please build a low cost power conditioner!
It will improve the sound of all components and the whole system.   I mean, what good is a world class headphone amp without clean power? ... you'll just hear more of the grundge!

Maybe make separate circuits for each component -
cdp, pre, amp - assuming the conditioning needs for
said components differ.

what about a vacuum tube tuner? i dont know about the difficulty of making an affordable tuner, but i do know that affordable audiophile tuners are about as rare as four leaf clovers, esp. tubed ones.

With the right drivers the Zen should have no problem driving the woofers in a biamp setup.  Adding copious feedback to increase damping would take away a lot of the zen magic.

Dave

A "hybrid" Zen amp with SV83 tube based channel for the mids/highs and a Tripath Technologies "chip amp" for the low end.  It would have a built in active crossover of course with the normal adjustments, phase, level, crossover, etc.
The objective is to get some slamming bass with good integration but not touching the sound of the Zen mids/highs

This comment is interesting even though we don't know the context of his opinion. Speakers, previously owned amps, etc....

"A good tube pre, feeding a Tripath amp gets everything right, musically correct,zero even order distortion, and the 12AU7 getting all the sonic goodies just right, while still retaining the magic,with no tube hassle. All of the good, none of the bad... Best combo I have yet owned."

http://java.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=amp&n=41679&highlight=griffin&sessio...

We've heard the "tubes are dead" cry before.  However, I would think its worth investigating.  You never know where those "Zen" discoveries will lead you. I hear you can get free chip samples from Tripath.

A tUBED DAC ABLE TO PUT OUT ABOUT 3VOLTS

NIGEL

and while I'm at it, don't forget about the phono stage idea.

Thanks!
Karl

So we are looking at these options

Headphone amp
phono preamp
sv83 PP amp
Sub amp
Mic preamp
line conditioner
tube dac

I may have missed one.  I personaly think the phono pre, headphone amp, or a DAC are the best ideas.  Mabey we should put it to a vote

A nice adc would be great for those of us that like to record.  I'm still using my open reels....or was....they are all packed now...

Or...a nice tube mic preamp...

3141

how about a balanced phono stage and/or line stage?

rt

[quote author=chrisby link=board=ZPLATE&num=1061610565&start=0#3 date=08/23/03 at 02:27:16]
active tube XO / line d

Chrisby, why would you want to have an active tube crossover. Would't "MORE PARTS IN THE SIGNAL PATH" muddy up the sound and "DESTROY DETAIL" ? Regards, Jerry

If a headphone amp fits on the same chassis as a CSP; one would think that a phono amp would fit also.

Maybe it's difficult from a noise standpoint?

WEEZ

A plate mount tube sub amp, as a few folks mentioned.

wish for  a 3 channel plate kit. need to "tube" a home theater rig  :)

A 240volt Z box

I bet the proposed *no-brainer phono-pre* was transmorgraphied into the new ZP3 phono stage. And, by the way, if the ZP3 is better than my older version ZP.1, then it's a heck of nice phono stage!

A nice plate project would be an active tube x-over for subs

Karl