Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Member's Systems Picture Gallery >> Lii F-15 Open Baffles https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1640039612 Message started by Mannytheseacow on 12/20/21 at 22:33:32

Title: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 12/20/21 at 22:33:32 Hey gang, just finished this copies of Steve's F-15 open baffles, currently set-up in my workshop until the x-mas tree comes down and I finish the 25th anniversary mods to my zkit.  Nothing overly special, I just glued up some 2x4s and used the cut-offs for the feet on the back.  I've got about $20 in the baffles and with the current special on the Lii F-15, under $500 in these speakers, for the best sounding system I've ever heard.  I can't wait til it's in my main listening space.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Archie on 12/21/21 at 00:05:57 Very clever with the 2X4s but where did you get that much lumber for $20?  It's still through the roof where I am. The look a bit 70s den-ish.   [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 12/21/21 at 00:28:00 Indeed, I used (9)-2x4x8’, which at local prices is about $50. Still not bad… but I had 6 usable boards laying around so I only had to buy 3. I originally just threw them together to see how the speakers sounded when they arrived but dang, I don’t see or hear a reason to build nicer baffles. It’s interesting that the plywood shelves in the background must work like a trap or something because these things actually sound better closer to the shelves rather than pulled out several feet like my planars. Again, I can’t wait to hear them in a proper space once they are broken in.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Archie on 12/21/21 at 00:37:05 In my space too they don't seem to suffer much from being close to the back wall.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Shomei’a on 01/26/22 at 19:44:53 Very nice. Have you been able to compare the sound to hardwood baffles?  Total thickness is 1.5 inches?

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 01/26/22 at 19:59:47 My understanding is that a dense hardwood would be much better, but I have not had an opportunity to compare.  My impression is that pine or fir still outcompetes anything in this price range. Indeed, 1.5 inches thick.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Shomei’a on 01/26/22 at 21:07:05 Would love to hear a recording, especially with voice, despite the limitations..

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by HockessinKid on 01/26/22 at 23:17:59 Shomei'a, If you go to the Decware products starting page, click on speakers, and scroll down the page you'll see two Zen Master open baffle products. If you click on one of the baffles, you'll find detailed information about the speaker design and hardwood offerings. If you want to get a sense of the sound quality, scroll down toward the bottom of the product listing. Steve was kind enough to post videos w/ high quality microphones to capture the sound of several different types of music. These recordings are designed to be listened with headphones. So you can use your smart phone or computer headphone jack to listen, as long as you have IEM's or headphones. This will give you a fairly good sense of how the Li Audio F15 drivers in the open baffle speakers sound. HK

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Shomei’a on 01/26/22 at 23:29:29 Thanks.  I' a scientist and I'm thinking systematically about the properties of baffle construction and how the speakers sound. Seems like there is much more to explore on this topic.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 04:38:27 Fell down another rabbit hole. Put some F15s into a cut in half butch block table top. 36 x 25 routed a hole 2" above centerline. Made a plinth from scrap wood. Wow it's going be hard to get out of this hole.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Archie on 01/29/22 at 07:15:25 Pictures please!

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 13:55:51 https://ibb.co/6sX2cCd[img][/img] Been moving them around a lot. Should have the speakers broken in by the time my UFO2 gets here. Been cold here in the north. Have some ideas for them when it warms up.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 14:32:26 https://ibb.co/RNyn815[img][/img] Put a couple of dowels into some scrap glued and screwed them together. All in for $115 + the speakers.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Donnie on 01/29/22 at 15:04:03 Put the image address between the brackets [img]  xxxxx [img}

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 15:11:42 Thanks Donnie

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 01/29/22 at 15:17:22 Very nice! The F15s are an amazing value. If you get to a point where you cut yours into ovals, those cutoffs make sexy legs for the baffle. I just glued and clamped them on and it is a nice sturdy joint. More importantly, how do yours sound? Mine are so fun to listen to. Almost addictive. On jazz and acoustic they are just alive. And even with rock they jam in a way that many audiophile speakers can’t. One area my F15s are challenged is with Lisa Hannigan her voice sounds rather shouty on the Liis where it is silky smooth on my Magnepans. It could be the lack of density with my pine baffles or maybe the room. Let us know how yours sound.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 18:20:07 Mannytheseacow, Thanks.  Built these to try out the F15's . Wanted to order some Caintucks. Figured I'd throw these together and see if I even like the f-15s. Right out of the gate they sounded very good. Been listening to all kinds of genres of music and they are performing really strong. Started listening yesterday so they are fresh. Absolutely Impressive! Super glad I found this forum. New at this hifi hobby. I'm sure when they break in it will get even better. One thing I found out so far. I Put some scrap under them to tilt them up. The mid and highs fell apart a little got blurry. They like laying on the ground flat and true. Sounds solid like that.  Been moving them around a lot. Notice the change in sound right away with that scrap under them. LOL

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Archie on 01/29/22 at 18:57:15 Interesting about the tilt.  With mine, I was getting a bit stale with the sound but tilting seemed to bring it all back to life -- scale and presence.  I have the more "traditional" build though.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 20:47:09 Archie, Don't think the change was from the tilt. More like A mechanical defect. Would like to have them laid back a little.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Archie on 01/29/22 at 22:34:35 Mine are build like a brick shit-house.  I picked that up from Steve's.  They also weight over 100 lbs each with the extra 25 lbs of lead ballast.   :)

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 01/29/22 at 23:00:27 Thanks Archie, Your baffles are pretty impressive seen pictures of them in another thread. Liked the box filled with lead shot.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Archie on 01/29/22 at 23:19:13 I built my base like I did because I don't like the aesthetics of Steve's design but then he claimed that the solid block in back was needed to stiffen the bottom edge of the baffle.  Taking his word for that I built the boxes as stiffeners but figured it might be cool to use them for ballast too.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 06/30/22 at 14:45:10 Mannytheseacow, Here's what I did with my test baffles. Added the W-15 and a plate amp. Love the sound stage, they seem to just fill my space with a wall of sound. Funny I underestimated how well they would preform. Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 06/30/22 at 14:49:00 Added a little more weight in the back.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by BicycleJoe on 06/30/22 at 21:33:52 Those are unique and beautiful

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 06/30/22 at 23:22:34 Thanks Joe, Plan on taking them to the north woods with my Schiit system. The finish will match their new home. Was a rewarding project. Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 07/01/22 at 02:07:55 Very cool, Joseph! Are your F15 drivers the newer ones or the older ones? I would love to hear the difference.   At some point in the next 3-1/2 years before my Sarah arrives I’d like to add the W-15. That will probably happen sooner than later. What plate amp are you using? The only update I have on my F15 OB’s is that I added a stiffening plate to the back and the tilt. They actually sound best tilted as shown above and the stiffening plate didn’t add anything. But honestly they sound so good I’m not complaining. I will make some nice hardwood baffles for them too, probably when I get around to the W15… just have too many projects going on. And lately I’ve really just enjoyed sitting in front of the hifi as much as possible and not doing much else. 🙂

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 07/02/22 at 01:53:59 Mannytheseacow, My F15s are the older model, would like to hear the improved version also. Using Dayton Audio SA100 with the W-15. Sounds great using the high level inputs. Nice easy set up, blends together well. Noticed a lot of smaller sounding recordings on smaller speaker get big and lively using the F15s. They are easy to enjoy. Did notice the Sarah and Steve's big baffles sound demo. Caught my ear, sounded wonderful! Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 07/13/22 at 03:15:37 Is it just me or do these things almost sound like they have reverb? I thought it was just my room but listening to the Decware F15 videos through headphones they have the same sound.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 07/13/22 at 22:17:56 Mannytheseacow, When I run a 6SL7 tube they sound like that, but present set-up I'm not hearing reverb. They are sounding smooth and clean. Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 07/14/22 at 02:04:47 Interesting. I’ve tried a number of different tubes and that “chamber” sound doesn’t change. I ran my zkit into some Klipsch speakers before putting the Lii’s together and that sound wasn’t there. I’ve never ran the Lii’s on anything but my zkit though. I’ll have to connect them to my Hegel and see what they sound like. I mean I really enjoy the zkit with the Lii’s. It sounds great, just slightly reverb-y.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 07/14/22 at 03:27:34 Mannytheseacow, The f-15s like tubes, with a tube pre-amp and SS amps. They respond to tubes on the Torri extremely well. They are very revealing when it comes to tubes. Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 07/14/22 at 06:34:23 Mannytheseacow, Spent a lot of time moving the baffles around. When I changed amps ended up moving them and changing the room. Really fills out the Schiits system, they are able to play into the strengths of the Aegirs. They sound better with the tube preamp gain and not pushing the amps that hard. Weakness of the Aegir they don't like being pushed. Switching the amps to the Torii changed the sound of the system completely. My baffles are perpendicular to the floor so no tilt. Didn't like them with a tilt. Maybe because of my low ceiling. Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 07/15/22 at 19:33:02 Joseph- regarding the reverb, upon more listening I’ve decided that it’s just the transparency of the system that allows the reverb or acoustics in the recording to be extremely perceivable. It is related to track I’m listening to and comes and goes with various recordings. I did connect my Hegel to the Lii’s, and found nothing to gain. It has 100x the power I need and quite frankly just isn’t as good with the Lii’s as my zkit. I didn’t try it with a tube pre, per se, but did try it with a few hours of classical and jazz through my restored fm3 tuner, as well as with some LPs and streaming. At the end of the day, this zkit and the Lii’s is just lovely. Wow. I really don’t even want to add a w15 because I don’t feel that I’m missing anything. Sure it could go lower, but the f15s are just really really nice, even with digital and bass heavy tracks. My inherent nature of needing to build things will probably lead me to a w15 eventually but I think I’ll sell my solid state system first.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Lon on 07/15/22 at 20:07:35 I thought perhaps you were hearing the room sound "reverb" for the first real time with that speaker/amp combo. It is a testament to how revealing that combination can be. I remember when I got my first Decware amp (the 27th built, even  before Rev. A or B or C) and listened to solo piano music and could hear the resonance and the changes the pedals made so clearly for the very first time. I take that sort of sound for granted now, but at that time it was as if I were hearing what I usually only heard playing an actual piano in a small practice room.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Steve Deckert on 07/16/22 at 06:13:08 Mannytheseacow that was great! It is what happens with real transparency compared to mass produced hifi gear. Welcome to the club. I think if you wanted to extend the bass of these large F15 baffles you would need a large box or infinite baffle. Low bass is highly overrated when everything else is stellar and the weight is right. The problem with W15 is the efficiency is lower and the speed is slower so you have to compensate with power and damping. This will often lead to more affordable solid state power amps that make it hard to match the sound of the main speakers. Myself, I would like to see something that is as fast as the F15 for bass. So far the only thing I have found is the F18 and only if situated in a large baffle or turned up pretty loud. They are tight as a brick just like the F15 so the bass is a perfect match but lower. It makes the whole space shudder from the projection and efficiency. Cross the F18 as a low bass driver somewhere between 50 and 100 hz and you could simply parallel it with the main F15 speakers all from the 2 watt Zen amp. It would shake the house. A single inductor or inductor and cap depending on room is all you would need to make that happen. Trust me when you can get all the sound from the same amplifier the harmonics and timing are so sharply focused that you will have a benchmark that is almost impossible to beat. Happy Listening, Steve

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 07/16/22 at 07:16:57 @Lon- I’m sure every generation says this about the next but I wonder if the younger folks will know what a piano sounds like in person, and the difference between striking a key with a pedal depressed… or the natural sustain of a symbol struck in a quiet room from behind the kit, or how the shells will resonate from the cymbal? I guess I’m just glad that I know, and that these systems can teleport me to that space. @Steve- I had similar experience trying to blend subs with Magnepans. The Maggie’s are just too tight and focused; a sub just smears the sound. When done right the Maggie’s can be stunning. They can showcase a great recording but they can easily show you a bad recording sounds like s**t. And that’s the big difference I’m finding with the zkit/Lii combo. Bad recordings are still fun to listen to. Good recordings are impressive, and great recordings are stunning. Even without that extra bottom end. Wow.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 07/16/22 at 17:43:12 Mannytheseacow, That's great, sound like you found better perspective with your set up. Sorry wasn't trying to compare amps with the F-15. Trying to compare my RP600m to the F-15 .They help out my Schiit system a lot. James Brown sounds like he's singing in a box with the RP600M. With the F-15 he's performing on a big stage. Don't be afraid to try the W-15. Guess it matters more with the genres of music you listen to. Now I want to build some baffles that Steve was talking about. That's what makes these Lii speakers so cool. Have a great day! Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Mannytheseacow on 07/16/22 at 23:59:52 Yep, I agree Joseph! Once I heard planars and open baffles I never went back. I do have a pair of 600m’s in a box that I was using in a spare bedroom. They are nice speakers compared to other economical box speakers and work well with a 2 watt amp. Been trying to sell them for a while. I’m surprised they are as hard to sell as they are considering their popularity. I guess shipping is the killer.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Same Old DD on 07/17/22 at 05:24:06 Shipping is a killer, indeed. I recently sent a one and a half pound box to my cousin in Australia. The shipping was $129, via USPS. Creating the "legal" manifest was going to be worse. I finally declared them as a collection of small family heirlooms to keep from having to list about 400 philatelic items and franked military covers from our uncle, some of which are considered valued art to Customs. Yikes! Still cost a bundle.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by metropolis7 on 07/17/22 at 15:51:49 Randy at Caintuck told me flat out that you don't need any bass reinforcement with the L 15s, especially when using a ZROCK. That's been my experience. Something was always a bit off with the sub in the mix.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by jec3504 on 07/17/22 at 19:59:13 Thanks everyone for sharing their opinions and experiences. What I love about this forum. Thanks for Starting this thread Mannytheseacow. Building these F15s baffles has been a huge tool in my Hifi education. They were the first piece of gear that showed me how important synergy can be. Joseph

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by RCFDSL on 07/18/23 at 23:12:32 Those are beautiful speakers

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by Maggieman on 12/06/23 at 12:31:42 Here are my Zenmaster clones.

Title: Re: Lii F-15 Open Baffles Post by JAG on 12/07/23 at 11:15:38 Per Steve's recommendation I used the same baffle for the woofer as the main drivers.

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