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EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> SE84UFO >> EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
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Message started by Dana on 09/04/21 at 17:08:58

Title: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/04/21 at 17:08:58

Hopefully I got it sorted out.
Several hours after what I thought were the correct tubes for the SE84UFO I checked the forum and darn (not those exact words but close). The Russian designation of a SV83 is different.

OK I'm a little slow the 84 designation is in the name of the amp.
Doh!!!

I tried to cancel the order but no luck. I requested an EL84 and I got pushback. I sent pictures of the pinouts to show the SV83 vs the EL83 and still got pushback. I finally found a non ebay store that contradicted what they were sayng all along.

The Reflector 6p15p-EB (SV83) is similar to EL84 Tube Types

Ebay
EL83 = SV83, 6P15P

This was my final response

Of course such tube is closer to el84, but with other pinouts! You need some adapter or make the changes in your scheme!
SO finally i will send two tubes 6p14p/el84 to you, maybe matched pair) - it will be my present for you!:)

Are there power tubes on ebay that I can try or do I need to stay with American venders?

Cheers

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Geno on 09/04/21 at 17:42:13

Man, just stay with the SV83’s that Steve sells. You can’t go wrong there, and it is doubtful that you’ll better them.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/04/21 at 18:04:56

LT;DR EL83s are NOT compatible with the UFO amps, but they are adaptable.

Here's the deal. A year or so ago when I ordered my UFOs I was intrigued by the possibility of using EL83s, but there were stories on this site about bad things happening if you tried them. So I checked the datasheet and sure enough EL83s have a different pinout than 6P15P types and EL84s. Note also that "SV83" is brand name for 6P15P type tubes. I don't know exactly how EL83 got in the mix, but I suspect someone saw SV83 and figured EL83 would be the same thing. They are similar, but they most definitely are not interchangeable. But they are adaptable.

If you don't want to buy tubes from Steve there are plenty of people selling 6P15P, 6P15P-EB and 6P15P-EP tubes that you can use, and they are generally cheap. I bought a number of them, some sound very good, others less so. But for me none of them sound as good as adapteed EL83s. If you are interested in my EL83 journey it is here:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1607194889

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Geno on 09/04/21 at 18:49:16

That is interesting CA! So, is that what you’ve stayed with in your Zens?

If so, I trust you enough to give em a try. (If you can’t trust an audio loving Physicist, who can you trust???) 😉🤓😎

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/04/21 at 19:54:05

I don't know that being an audiophile physicist is a good reason to trust me, but I do tend to gravitate to the road less traveled. So, yes, I've pretty much stayed with EL83s since December. I started with Tesla, and tried Siemens and Telefunken and like TFK the best (they are also the most expensive, go figure). I continue to wonder if I like the EL83s just because they were such a hassle to get them to work, so I'll swap in 6P15P types (both Decware that came with my amp, and Ebay) occasionally and I'll be damned if I don't keep coming back to the EL83s. Actually just did it this morning, before I saw this thread.

Of course the input and rectifier tubes matter as well. I've been using Amperex 7308s (bought them in the early days of the internet for a few bucks each) and Mullard Fat Base Smooth Plate GZ34s, which were a struggle for my Scottish Heritage, but worth the investment.

So, if you decide to pursue the EL83 option let me know how it goes, I'd be very curious what your experience is like.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/04/21 at 21:05:16

I've been on this site for years and have never seen tubes for sale separately.

What's the link and is it going to take a year to get them?
[smiley=icqlite22.png]

Also in your original post CA you mentioned they might not last as long. Any update on that?

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/04/21 at 21:32:58

Here's the link for the tubes:

https://www.decware.com/newsite/tubesets.htm

As for the EL83s, I just took them out this morning to test them (and try some 6P15P-EPs, which were good, but not as good as the EL83s) and they test the same after 500ish hours as when they were new, so I'm pretty optimistic about tube life.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Marbia on 09/06/21 at 12:12:49

Here is a link to the exact tubes used in the zen triode amp.
I purchased 3 sets for $40, shipped from Russia.

https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=74&osCsid=7itkq11p7quh8qcmepkutrm8d7

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 09/06/21 at 14:42:15

I have bought many such tubes from Russia via several merchants. BUT. . . I have never bought a pair that sounds better or lasts longer than a pair that Steve selects and puts through his testing. So though I have about 20 pairs of spares. . . once a year or so I buy a pair from Steve for my Monoblocks and my Taboo amp. They just sound the best and don't fail.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/06/21 at 16:11:39

Quote:

Posted by: Marbia

Here is a link to the exact tubes used in the zen triode amp.
I purchased 3 sets for $40, shipped from Russia.

https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=74&osCsid=7itkq11p7quh8qcme...

Yes, I have bought tubes from them as well. Note however there are only 2 of the -EV left. FWIW the best sounding 6P15P tubes I've heard in my system are -ER/EP version (yes, better than the Decware tubes) and R is a higher spec than V if you're keeping score, but YMMV of course.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 09/06/21 at 16:38:44

I haven't had the same experience with ER versions so I keep using tubes from Steve.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/06/21 at 19:55:55

Here is a link to the exact tubes used in the zen triode amp.
I purchased 3 sets for $40, shipped from Russia.

this link points to

6P15P-EV / EL83 / SV83 tube
Manufacturer: Reflector

Which are EL83 tubes NOT EL84.

Shouldn't it really be
https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=20

AHHHHHHHHH!!!

Do these only work with an adapter?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274931073802?hash=item40032b430a:g:FMwAAOSwWzxhMN1B

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/06/21 at 21:32:03

No. 6P15P are the tubes used in the UFO amps. That is the real tube designation, they are mislabeled as EL83. 6P14P are EL84 equivalent and will work in UFO amps without an adapter, but not as well.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/06/21 at 21:51:24

THANKS!!!

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/20/21 at 02:31:37

Well my near tube ebay disaster worked out. I originally ordered EL 83 that were supposedly SV83 but thanks to everyone I caught it before they were shipped. They wouldn't let me cancel the order even though I provided pin out pictures and other sites showing they wouldn't work.
What they did allow me to do was substitute 6P14P an EL84 equivalent. I just put them in and to me they sound really good. They were used tubes but I feel that they are much more open and more high frequency emphasis than the tubes included with the amp.
I changed out the input tube to a 6922 and I just as happy as a clam.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/21/21 at 07:58:22

Installed the 6p14p/el84 and they worked but I was getting some weird distortion that I didn't notice with the power tubes that came with the amp. I played with the bias and impedance switches until the sound suited me best but the vocal distortion was still there.

I believe that because the new tubes are more reveling that I'm much more aware of the microphonic's of the input tube. I had some of the silicon bands and put it on the input tube and the distortion went away but so did the life of the music. I'm currently moving the dampening band up and down the tube to see if I can tune the vibration (like a guitar string) or just lesson the dampening. It seems to be working the vocal distortion comes across very rarely and It still sounds lively.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I' sort listening in the dark here.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Marbia on 09/21/21 at 14:21:57

You are using the incorrect tube. You should be using the 6P15P-EV tube.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 09/21/21 at 14:29:33

I jumped into trying the EL83 with converters to EL84 with a nice pair of Mullard EL83.

Can't say that I really prefer them at least so far to the stock tubes from Steve (the gold standard for me). The Mullards sound better to me in the Monoblocks than in the Taboo, but I'm leaving them in the Taboo a while to season a bit. They are far less focused and holographic in either of the components and I couldn't last more than an hour in either before longing to have those I took out back in. I have so dialed in my system around Steve's output tubes that it probably isn't a fair chance for the EL83 and once I feel they've broken in I may try to tailor around them a bit. . . but I have a feeling I won't have these in for the long term. A bit of fun experimenting is ahead though!

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/21/21 at 14:55:32

Lon, are you using the ebay EL83 -> EL84 adapters? I've been curious how they work in the Decware amps.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 09/21/21 at 16:49:48

Yes, they work perfectly.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 09/28/21 at 01:18:19

I have about fifty hours on the Mullards now and they are sounding quite nice. A warmer, bolder presentation than Steve's which are faster and more focused.

It's nice to have options!

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/28/21 at 01:23:30

Quote:

Posted by: Lon Posted on: Today at 01:18:19
I have about fifty hours on the Mullards now and they are sounding quite nice. A warmer, bolder presentation than Steve's which are faster and more focused...

That is similar to my experience. I found them to be generally warmer, but also more spacious and perhaps even more detailed. I don't have Mullard tubes but to me it was more of a "Mullard sound."

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by kulafu on 09/28/21 at 13:32:25

I mistakenly purchased these instead of the 6P15-EV (6P14P / EL84 / 6BQ5 and 6P14-ev "Reflector" EL84M el84 7189 6BQ5) a while back. Are these the adapters that would allow me to use these on the ZenUFO25th?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303631540159
I appreciate the advice. Thanks.
Bob

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/28/21 at 13:42:33

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/28/21 at 13:45:40

If you bought these: (6P14P / EL84 / 6BQ5 and 6P14-ev "Reflector" EL84M el84 7189 6BQ5) then you do not need an adapter. EL84s work fine. It is EL83s, sometimes advertised as SV83s that need an adapter.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by kulafu on 09/28/21 at 14:25:54

CAJames, thank you for that. I get confused too easily! Lol!
Bob

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/28/21 at 17:03:05

It is confusing. This is the situation as clearly as I can state it:

The tube that Decware sells is the Russian 6P15P-EV. There is also a -ER version and the just plain 6P15P. There is no western tube equivalent for the 6P15P type. FYI/FWIW the -EV and -ER suffixes designate higher spec, more durable tubes. But electrically they are (essentially) the same.

The UFO amps are also fully compatible with the EL84 tube. There is a Russian version of the EL84, the 6P14P that also comes in various versions. There are many European and American versions of the EL84. The American designation is 6BQ5.

So far so good. Then there is the SV83. This a brand name owned by an American company and is used for 6P15P type tubes. AFAIK they can label any 6P15P type a SV83. Since an SV83 is a 6P15P it is fully compatible with the UFO amps, but you don't really know what kind of 6P15P you are getting.

Finally there is the EL83. It is similar electrically to the 6P15P and EL84/6P14P but has a different pinout so it isn't directly compatible with the UFO amps (but it is adaptable). Presumably because "EL83" looks a lot like "SV83" the 6P15P/SV83 tubes are also advertised as EL83, but this is 100% wrong. There is no Russian EL83 (that I know of). If it is a Russian tube it is 6P15P/SV83 or perhaps is 6P14P/EL84. There are European made (and perhaps American made or at least relabled) EL83s, that may be advertised as SV83 but this is also 100% wrong. There is no Western SV83/6P15P. The American designation for an EL83 is 6CK6.

I hope this helps, but in rereading it seems like maybe I just made things worse....

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by kulafu on 09/29/21 at 14:24:13

CAJames,
Thank you! You cleared it up for me in a logical fashion. Must be the physicist in you! I saved this in my files for future reference!
Bob

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 09/29/21 at 18:31:37

Thanks CAJames. UDAMAN!

Where I got tripped up was
EL803s TESLA EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE Serie Early 50s MATCHED PAIR Tubes = EL83

Ebay listed this tube as a SV83 6p15p which apparently it isn't. I was able to switch to the 6p14p/EL84 which for me worked out really well thanks to the posters here.

Much apprieciation

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 09/30/21 at 03:02:28

Firstly, you're very welcome. I'm happy I can give back a little something to the forum that has taught me so much.

And secondly, funny you mention the EL803s TESLA EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE Serie Early 50s MATCHED PAIR Tubes = EL83 because I have a story about those as well.

The backstory is, as you may know, Telefunken made a legendary (bordering on mythical) super premium version of the ECC83/12AX7 labeled the ECC803s. It is considered the ultimate 12AX7 tube, and is basically extinct in the wild meaning if you see one for sale it will be going for into the 4 figures and there's a good chance its a fake. They made equally super premium 801s and 802s versions of the ECC81 and ECC82.

So early on in my EL83 adventure I came across the EL803s and figured it must be a super premium version of the EL83, after all it costs more so it must be better, right? Wrong. I didn't look at the datasheet until after I had already bought a batch (live and learn) and it turns out they are not EL83s at all. They have the same pinout, but are rated for much less power. I actually tried them in my UFOs (with the EL83 adapters) and they sounded pretty good, but started to fade after a couple of weeks. Oh well.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Dana on 10/03/21 at 00:05:39

First let me say I couldn't be happier. I just purchased quan10 6p15p advertised as slightly used for $20 with shipping.

My thoughts if half of them are good I'm ahead and it will probably take a long time to find out. I put in the first pair and all I can say is what a great amp. It still sounds really good. I'm not good enough to determine if it sounds better or even different from the 6p14p /EL84 that I was really happy with so I figure I'm set on output tubes as I still haven't even broken in the originals.

I just purchased quan 2 5z3 for $16 and a 4 to 8 pin adapter so I'll be able to swap out the rectifier soon to see if it changes the sound. They were tested and showed numbers above what they said was minimum and appear to be stronger than the 80 globes that were a lot more money. One was a Sheldon and the other was a National Union so I don't know how to check but I would bet they're over 50 years old and probably even older.

Again thank you to all the pioneers who were willing to share knowledge allow me to make significant changes to my amp for less than lunch for two at Mickey Dee's.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 10/18/21 at 14:11:30

I've been listening to a pair of Adzam EL83 in the Taboo Mk IV for a week now. These are very nice tubes. Less warm than the Mullards and a bit more detailed but still in a natural way.

These won't be benefiting from the Hazen Grid/CCE mod these amps have built in, that's likely quite the most profound difference between these EL83 and the tubes supplied with the amps. I can hear that difference but with quite a bit of material that even presents itself as an improvement.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 10/18/21 at 14:55:16

Quote:

Posted by: Lon Posted on: Today at 14:11:30

...These won't be benefiting from the Hazen Grid/CCE mod these amps have built in...

Why do you say that?

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 10/18/21 at 15:05:14

I'm pretty sure the Hazen Grid mod does not come into play with EL84, and I am using EL83 to EL84 converters. My memory may be playing tricks on me but that's how I remember particulars about the Grid mod.

I did find this about the tubes in the amp:

"The stock configuration is a 6922 (6N1P) driving a pair of EL84 or SV83 (6P15P-EV) output tubes. The rectifier is a 5U4 but you may substitute 5Y3GT, 5AR4's or the new Valve Art 274B. You can expect over 6000 hours of pristine fidelity from the included 6P15P-EV tubes. Because this amp has the Hazen Grid Mod that activates only when SV83 (6P15P-EV) output tubes are used, we ship the amp with the best mil spec 6P15P-EV's made. These are Russian New Old Stock tubes with Gold grids, extra thick glass, plated pins, and tested in your amplifier. All tubes come with a 90 day warranty."

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 10/18/21 at 15:46:36

The way I read Steve's paper on the Hazen grid mod:

https://www.decware.com/newsite/paper145.htm

Is the thing that matters is whether the suppressor grid is internally connected to the cathode. This is indeed the case for the EL84, but not for the EL83 and (properly adapted) the Hazen grid mod should in fact apply to the EL83. That is one of the things that attracted me to this adventure.

Of course the question is properly adapted. The gory details are the EL83 and 6P15P have the suppressor grid on pin 6 and cathode on pin 3. The EL84 has both the cathode and suppressor grid on pin 3 (i.e. internally connected) and no connection on pin 6. So, if the adapters connect pin 3 to pin 6 then you are correct, and no Hazen grid mod. However, the ebay adapters I over a year ago did not do that, but I didn't like them for other reasons so I had custom adapters made. Those were different (at least cosmetically) from the ones that are on sale now, but the bottom line is if you have a multimeter, and you care, you can test to see if there is connection from pin 6 on top to pin 3 on the bottom. No connection, yes Hazen grid mod. Connection, no Hazen grid mod.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 10/18/21 at 15:50:40

Okay. I don't know enough to read it that way. Nor do I have a multi-meter to check this converter. EL84 have always sounded quite different than the stock tubes in my amps and these EL83 on the converters I have exhibit very similar characteristics.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by CAJames on 10/18/21 at 18:45:33

If the ebay adapters negate the Hazen grid mod that would certainly reduce the appeal of EL83s.

Title: Re: EL83 = SV83, 6P15P TESLA Ebay misinformation?
Post by Lon on 10/18/21 at 19:06:33

Hmm. Not to me. I think the Hazen Grid is sometimes too much of a good thing for the material I listen to (not entirely great recordings).

I can easily swap back and forth with Steve's tubes. Maybe one day I can find converters that would allow the mod.