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Message started by Lance Lloyd on 10/24/20 at 15:16:30

Title: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Lance Lloyd on 10/24/20 at 15:16:30

Hello! I have an opportunity to get a pre owned Zen Torii Mkiii. Can I send it
to Decware for a complete upgrade? Or, should I just buy it new? It’s significantly cheaper than a new Mkiv. Thanks in advance for any help with this!

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by will on 10/24/20 at 23:18:46

Hello Lance.

There are several things I can think of to look at in this comparison.

First, consider if you want to transfer the MKIII warranty. If so, then it needs to be sent to Decware and they check it out carefully with all new tubes. So this carries additional costs, but you then get the life-time warranty.

Then of course upgrade modifications costs as well.

Looking at fundamental differences between the MKIII and MKIV, I am guessing there are some MKIII upgrades that may or may not be as much of a priority as others ...like the whole set of electrolytic power supply caps. Where others might be more obviously worth considering, like Jupiter signal caps over Wimas. But these are things you would have to discuss with Steve. See what he thinks would be possible and most relevant. Replacing the Type I Jupiter coupling caps in my MKIV, I moved them into my MKIII and really like how they sound in the MKIII....a nice synergy. I have not tried the more costly Type II Jupiters in the MKIII, but thought the Type I's we're really good.

A subtler but meaningful addition to the MKIV (to me) is the reconstructive feedback circuit, probably worth asking Steve about. I always leave mine on, so if I were getting my MKIII upgraded including it (in my systems anyway), I would not care if the circuit were always "on" and without a switch like the MKIV has. But I think I recall that it can potentially create issues with some speakers??? Another potential upgrade to ask Steve for his opinions on.

Also, I would strongly consider the 25th modifications on either amp. I have not heard Steve's mods, but have done similar modifications and more, including bypassing the power supply. To me power supply bypasses were pretty profound. Using more transparent resistors was also quite notable for me. The 25th mods include a choice to upgrade the signal resistors to glass, something I would definitely check out with either amp also.

Another thing to consider with the MKIII you are looking at....the earlier MKIIIs had no bass adjustment pot (something I thought was a worthy tool), where the later ones had both treble and bass pots. If I were not into direct EQ on the music files, I would want a bass adjustment just in case your speaker/Torii blend and room would benefit from bass tuning. The MKIV does bass adjustment differently. So if the MKIII does not have a bass pot, I might talk with Steve about options there as well.

The MKIII and MKIV are definitely "family," and to me the MKIII is a really nice amp. Upgraded and adding 25th modifications, if economical, I think it could be really good.

Hope this helps some in your deliberations.

Will

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Lance Lloyd on 10/25/20 at 04:50:49

Hello Will! Thank you so much! This is all incredibly helpful, and is exactly what I was hoping for! I’m going to go through all of this tonight and tomorrow before contacting Steve, then making my decision. I’ll post the results here as things develop. I really appreciate your time and insight. -Lance

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Archie on 10/25/20 at 05:19:19

Lance, Will is definitely an expert on the Torii Mk III and IV but I just wanted to say that without a side-by-side comparison, the differences might be subtle and that a stock MkIII will likely be 100% satisfactory. The fact that it is upgradable down the road is just icing on the cake.

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Lance Lloyd on 10/25/20 at 06:09:01

Thank you as well Archie! That’s also what I’d hoped. If I get the MKIII, I’m not sure if I have to send it to Decware for the inspection and warranty transfer right out of the gate. If I end up doing that, I’ll probably take advantage of some possible modifications or upgrades at that time. It’ll already be there haha. Just knowing that there’s support and possibilities is huge, regardless. 👍🏽

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Rivieraranch on 10/25/20 at 17:24:59

You can't go wrong with either version. I had a MK III and it was lovely. I ran EL34's in it. Then I secured a MKIV that I had for several years. With KT66 tubes it had a gentle gain characteristic. When yo turned up the volume it clipped gently, much like the ZEN 84s do.

Forget about the warranty. Just send it in to DECWARE and get is souped-up as much as you can to match a IV with anniversary modifications.

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Archie on 10/25/20 at 17:42:22

I've thought about this issue if I ever bought used Decware and I figure that if it ever needed service than that would be the time to re-up the warranty. ;)

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Rivieraranch on 10/25/20 at 20:45:01

Warranty schwarranty. You don't need it. If the unit takes a dump the repair cost would be very reasonable. Spend the $$ on updates and modifications.

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by will on 10/27/20 at 00:53:25

Quote:

Hello Will! Thank you so much! This is all incredibly helpful, and is exactly what I was hoping for!

You are welcome Lance, and good luck in your considerations!

Will

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Lance Lloyd on 10/28/20 at 20:05:32

Thanks to everyone for all the advice, knowledge, and help! The current owner of the MKIII I was interested in had second thoughts about selling it. His financial situation had an upswing and he said he was now “loathe to sell it” haha. Understandable. I’ve noticed that there’s a classified section in these forums, so I’m going to keep an eye out, and maybe put up an “amp wanted” post.

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Rivieraranch on 10/29/20 at 16:19:33

Don't worry, they are out there. You can snag one in time.

Lance Lloyd has a nice ring to it; like a '30's private eye.

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by Lance Lloyd on 11/14/20 at 00:42:05

Hello all! So, just checking in with an update. I feel a little weird after starting this thread about the MKIII and MKIV, but I ended up buying a year old Torii Jr that just got the beeswax bypass mod and upgrades last month. I set it up last night and have been listening to it off and on all day. I love it! I’ve only used one complement of tubes so far, and probably will for awhile, just to get the feel for it. This doesn’t preclude me ultimately getting a MKIV, or maybe someday, a ZMA, but for right now, I’m thrilled, floored, very happy. Thanks again for everything.

Title: Re: Is the Zen Torii Mkiii Upgradable to the Mkiv?
Post by will on 11/14/20 at 01:08:32

Great news Lance!