Post by busterfree on 11/04/17 at 18:21:47
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Replacement Tubes >> New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1504051438 Message started by busterfree on 08/30/17 at 01:03:58 |
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Title: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 08/30/17 at 01:03:58 Has any one tried the new Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube in their Decware gear? From their website, “Sophia Electric came out with a newly designed Aqua 274B rectifier tube to raise the limitation from 8uf to 47uf. This Aqua 274B can directly replace 5U4G in most amplifiers with great sonic improvement.” It is still an expensive tube to try at $199, but I am curious to hear any feedback. I read the review below. My interest is peaked but not enough to spend $ yet. https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/sexy-blue-tubes-the-sophia-electric-el34-st-and-aqua-274b-vacuum-tubes/ Anyone try their KT88 or EL34-ST in a Rachel? |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by SonicSeeker on 08/30/17 at 02:11:31 I have always been intrigued by these tubes. But like many I wont be able to justify the price at least not in the near future but I will probably try them eventually. I had also asked quite some time ago if anyone had tried them in there Decware gear. I hope someone here will try them and give us there opinion. I sure wish I had his toys to listen with. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 08/30/17 at 23:53:04 The Sophia Electric Aqua 274B seems to be a brand new tube design and not the same as their other 274Bs for what's it worth. I often wondered about their other 274Bs and the Emission Labs 274B, but I did not try because of high cost and shortened tube life in Decware gear. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Steve Deckert on 08/31/17 at 03:07:03 Sophia Electric Aqua 274B is compatible with all Decware gear. It was designed like the 274B we use by Valve Art which is to say it will handle a 47uf capacitor. The original vintage 274s were restricted to between 4 and 8 uf. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by donovan on 09/01/17 at 04:52:42 Handsome enough, that's for sure, but too rich for my blood. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 11/04/17 at 18:19:30 I am giving the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube a try. I was concerned about ordering because Sophia Electric site did not have a traditional webstore or shopping cart. I am not a fan of phone orders. No worries. It was a smooth PayPal transaction after my initial email. I am keeping my receipt, but I fully expect to get a year out of this tube (if not several). I was happy with how the system sounded with the Valve Art 274B that ships with the SE84UFO. I am still happy with my system’s sound after installing the Aqua. I think I have about 100 hours on this tube so far....I think the bass is a little better with this new tube. A $200 rectifier is certainly not needed to get good sound. I sold some gear and used the proceeds to try a tube I was curious about. A win win. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 11/04/17 at 18:21:47
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 11/04/17 at 18:22:51 
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by SonicSeeker on 11/04/17 at 20:48:21 Beautiful looking tube. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 11/09/17 at 10:41:05 Curiosity has got the better of me again and I just ordered the Aqua 274B. Managed to get one for $140.00. Once I try this tube my rectifier “journey” will end. I was tempted to try the Mullard U52 but figured that money was better spent on a Z-Rock2. So far of all the rectifiers I have tried in my system the Mullard GZ32/CV593, AWV 5AS4 and one of the Type 80’s (nice tube) will remain, the others will go and some already have. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/10/18 at 15:18:24 Well, I decided to try a pair of these. I have tried two fistfuls of rectifiers in my new Monoblocks. . . pairs of RCA short and bottle type Type 80s, a great pair of Tung-Sol Type 80s, various 5U4G including the Valve Art Steve supplies, RCA and Sylvania, and the one that seems to work best for me is the trusty pair of old 5V4GB RCAs that I have from the 'fifties. With 6N5P in the ZTPRE and the Monoblocks and with an OB3 regulator this works best for me. These Monoblocks show me everything a tube brings to the table. . . . The acclaim for these rectifiers though calls to me. . . I am going to try them out. Should have them Monday. If it works out better than my other options GREAT! We'll see. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by hdrider on 05/12/18 at 17:07:11 Lon- Please excuse this left turn on this thread, but what and where are you getting your adapters to allow you to us the 80 tube? Seem kinda interesting? Happy listening, Chris. P.S. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Sophia 274B when you get them. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/12/18 at 17:31:25 The Type 80 are really interesting tubes. . . I've had three brands and two versions so far and each has their flavor to add. I got the adaptors from ebay. . I have tried both bakelite/plastic black ones and porcelain and brass ones that are more expensive. To be honest I think there's no real sonic difference between them, but the latter look really cool especially in place in the amp. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-4Pin-to-8Pin-Vacuum-Tube-Socket-Adapter-Converter-5Z3-to-5U4-Gold-Plated/201354636555?hash=item2ee1abed0b:g:fI0AAOSwZd1VXqE5 https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PC-Tube-Adapters-4pin-to-8pin-5Z3-80-5U4G-Vintage-Gold-Socket-Adaptor-Converter/251290177644?hash=item3a820fd06c:g:Cd8AAMXQkcZRjMSG https://www.ebay.com/itm/WE274A-80-5Z3-TO-5U4G-5Z4P-WE27-HIFI-Tube-Convert-Socket-Adapter-4-pin-to-8-Pin/321135526907?hash=item4ac52b43fb:g:jFYAAOSwA4dWN1KH The Sophia Electric Aqua are due to arrive today but I probably won't get to listen with any attention til Monday afternoon. My wife has been home sick most of last week and is going to the doctor on Monday morning and I hope to work after that. I love her and want her to be well. . . I don't get much listening to the system except via headphones when she's home. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Archie on 05/12/18 at 18:15:48 I bought two of the plastic version from a China seller for under $7 delivered. They can be had very reasonably. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/12/18 at 18:49:12 Absolutely. Do an ebay search. Well, I'm listening to one of the Aqua 274B right now in the Taboo Mk IV. Dang. I can already tell, twenty minutes into listening, that these are exceptional rectifiers. The sound is more 3D, more layered, more open, very addictive. Shoot. I know I'll need to get anther one in time for the Taboo, and the CSP3 on the build list with my name on it. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by pursuitofnow on 05/13/18 at 15:57:22 Does anyone know if this tube http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/274b.htm is compatible or the same specs as the aqua? Or any of the options listed? I really don't like the blue color and do realize that is superficial, but still... |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by hdrider on 05/13/18 at 16:17:43 Lon- Am I seeing correctly that the Aqua 274B is a four pin tube? is that a direct plug in for the Decware Amps and pre-amp (and of Steve's gear using 5U4 regulators). Seems pretty interesting. It would be pretty sexy looking to see the 274B and two of the Sophia EL34's in our Rachael....but a fair amount os $$$. Keep us posted after you get some time on them. Thanks and happy listening, Chris. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/13/18 at 17:28:28 That's correct it is a 4-pin tube, but it has a guide pin and inserting it with that guide pin it fist right into our rectifier sockets and works perfectly. I've managed to listen to it briefly in the Monoblocks and yes they sound very good but my wife is still ill and will be home at least tomorrow if not longer and as eager as i am to realy spend a lot of time with them. . . I don't see it happening soon. . . more's the pity! |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/13/18 at 17:33:46 The answer you are looking for is on this page: http://sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/Aqua_274B.htm Sophia Electric Princess mesh plate 274B and rigid plate 274B tubes have been widely praised as the best sounding rectifier tubes ever made. However there is a catch - the first capacitor after the rectifier tube needs to be small. The max value allowed for the Princess 274B mesh plate is 4uf, or 8uf for the Princess 274B rigid plate. The amps we use have a 47uf capacitor in use and though these tubes will work. . . Steve has advised against using them, and they won't last long if you do. The Aqua 274B seems to have been developed to solve this problem and thus allow its use in our amps and many others. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/14/18 at 01:29:27 I've snuck a little bit of time in on the speakers and with the new Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tubes in the Monoblocks. I have to say these are impressive tubes. There are many good choices for the Monoblocks. These are right up there even this early on as favorites rivaling the RCA 5V4GB that I have been using. They are very balanced top to bottom, very "quiet" in that there is a really black background, and the bass is probably the deepest I've heard from the amps so far, tight, but deep and with presence (a sort of rare combination). The RCA has a fuller bass, but not as deep. . . different source material would lead me to choose one over the other. Treble is also tight and not at all tart--it's controlled but it's not compessed or brittle sounding. The midrange is very open and this contributes a very natural dynamic contrast within the music. Soundstage has narrowed a bit but gone deeper. And that's more than fine with me. Quite impressed, as I should be for this costly a tube. I may have to get another one for my CSP3 when it comes so that I can see whether I would prefer it or another in the CSP3 as both those things seem to happen in user experience. If I choose another for the CSP3 the third one will go into the Taboo Mk IV as I already know I like it a lot in that component. . . . It feels "burned in" already, so if it improves that's icing on the cake. More impressions next week. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 07/05/18 at 20:57:09 I've now the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifiers in both 25th Anniversary Monoblocks and the CSP3-25, well-settled in. I have built excellent complements of tubes around these and am enjoying wonderful sound. I've rolled a few rectifiers since but for the first time I've really wanted to put the former rectifier back in quickly. The Sophias just seem so "right." Very quiet, very dynamic, very "precise." I've put a box full of rectifiers away into a closet. . . I'll be using these for a long while. . . . They really bring out all the new and exalted 25th Anniversary characteristics in these components. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Jess on 07/23/18 at 02:37:20 Hi, i am new in this forum and happened to browse this topic. I am considering to get Z-Rock2 next year as it is said to enhance the bass and it lead me to believe this might save users on tube rolling. My question is for those with ZR2, do you still need to tube roll the rectifier like the Sophia Aqua 274B? Is ZR2 not capable to deliver the attributes of this premium Aqua 274B. Thanks |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 07/23/18 at 23:01:12 The ZR2 ‘plays’ (no pun intended) a completely different roll from the rectifier. It will ‘reveal’ what it is fed to it by the associated components, the tube sets being a part of those components. It’s not just about bass. It has an impact on the entire frequency spectrum. Without it much of the information that the associated components send will be diminished or ‘masked’. I have the Sophia 274B Aqua in the UFO25 and had it in the UFO2. Like Lon, I have rolled a number of rectifiers and the Sophie is my choice. If your going to spend the money on a pricey rectifier then it would be a shame not to be able to hear all of it’s attributes. That’s where the ZR2 comes in. It doesn’t add or subtract, it simply let’s you hear it all. Without getting into all of the details, yes you need both. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Jess on 07/24/18 at 00:21:16 Thanks Joman for providing insight on both and i am more convince to get them. Am glad to drop by and get the info I needed. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 07/24/18 at 00:52:29 I have to agree, the rectifiers and the ZROCK2 serve different functions. The Sophia Electric 274B may not be for everyone but I find it's neutral stance and clear presentation lets you get the best out of your sources and also the ZROCK2. I am using this rectifier in my amps and preamp. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by ScottNC on 12/17/18 at 19:05:46 Any thoughts on how the “Preferred Series” 274B from the tubestore would compare? Best, Scott |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by ArtMan on 01/21/19 at 03:18:33 After having read this thread as well as doing some tube rolling, I highly recommend the Aqua. Each driver tube I listened with the Aqua sounded better than with the other rectifier tubes I tried. The bass had a greater solidity, the highs are airy without grain artifacts. The sound stage is larger and dimensional. I can hear deeper into the music. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by 2a3Smith on 02/18/19 at 23:59:57 I now have a Sophia Electric 274B Aqua Rectifier Tube with several hundred hours run-in in my CSP3 and a brand new one in my my Torii Jr. Man-O-Man!!! So smooth! So musical! Instruments and voices sound more real and extremely present! More than pleased! The 274B Aqua that I juts bought has a very small piece of loose glass in the bottle, which made the discounted price $100. I think he still has a few of these “flawed” tubes. It’s a good time to try one! My previous experience with Sophia Electric tubes includes both 2a3 mesh plates and 300B mesh plates that I used in my Cary mono blocks. So I already knew how musical Richard’s vacuum tubes were. I’m now saving for a quad of his beautiful blue el34’s! |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 02/19/19 at 02:56:06 [smiley=grin.gif] Great tubes, for sure. Expensive, but great. My Aqua is still performing well. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Jared Van Camp on 03/15/19 at 23:18:56 For those of you that mentioned having done some tube rolling and tested many rectifiers- have you ever used an NOS Phillips 5R4GYS? These are the rectifiers I am currently using in my SE84UFO2 monoblocks. I do like them and prefer them over the Valve Art 274B that came with the amps. To me, the Phillips are not as bright as the Valve Art’s and I prefer their tone. Looking for any ideas about how these Sophia Aqua 274B’s would compare to the Phillips 5R4GYS’s... |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Jared Van Camp on 03/16/19 at 18:10:32 Also, I am interested to hear if Steve thinks the Shuguang WE274B will be ok in his amps the way the Sophia Aqua 274B’s are? I have some of the Shuguang WE replica tubes in my phono and line preamps and absolutely love how they perform... |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by ScottNC on 03/24/19 at 22:03:33 Can anyone confirm that the Sophia Electric 274B's will fit into a Torii MKIV along with running a quad of Sophia EL-34ST's, they look, because of the "Coke Bottle" shape they'd be very close to touching with them all in place at the same time. Thanks to anyone who might know. Scott |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 03/31/19 at 18:32:13 Scott, I can't say for sure not having had a Torii Mk IV, but I did run a Torii Mk III for a spell with Sophia Electric Aqua 274Bs and TAD KT66, which are pretty big ass wide tubes, and there was no issue with tube touching. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 04/01/19 at 04:44:16 Just noticed your question regarding the Philips 5R4GYS rectifier in the SE84UFO2. I had a SE84UFO2 and tried many different rectifiers including the Philips 5R4GYS. The Mullard GZ32/CV593 easily bested the Philips and the Sophia Aqua bested it. I also feel that the Type 80 Globe and the type 80 St rectifiers are contenders if your on a budget, I preferred the type 80’s to the Philips. Of the 5U4G rectifiers that I tried, the Australian made AWV 5AS4 Superradiotron was my choice. In fact I’m still using it in my CSP3 with the Sophia Aqua 274B in my UFO25. In that combo, CSP3 and UFO25 I prefer the AWV 5AS4 in the CSP3 over the Sophia... go figure! Hope this helps in some way... |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 05/12/19 at 05:13:06 Well the first Sophia 274B Aqua that I was using just bit the dust after a year and 5 months and took out a couple of fuses in the process. If that wasn’t bad enough what happened next is even more...perplexing... It went through two fuses in my UFO25 and then I remembered that my CSP-3 has an extra fuse. So I put that one in and before putting my spare Sophia 274B Aqua in I thought I should start with one of my much, much less expensive rectifiers just in case. So I started with one of my AWV SuperRadiotron Type 80’s and held my breath... and... it worked, hooray! But... wait a minute... am I actually hearing more detail??? Bigger sound stage??? More dynamics???... with this type 80. Is my face starting to turn red??? When I tried out the various type 80’s I did not give this particular type 80 much time. Well now that I was sure that it was the rectifier that took out the fuses I put in my spare Sophia 274B Aqua... and yes indeed the type 80 has more detail, bigger and deeper sound stage and was more dynamic. To tell the truth for a while I was in denial but you can’t argue with your ears. I am not saying that the AWV Type 80 is a better tube just that it is obviously different. Both tubes have very nice musical flow. In this respect I’d say they’re equal. The attack that the Aqua 274B produces has rounder leading ‘edges’ making it easier to listen to in some respects. It has a ‘gentler and smoother’ all round presentation with good sound stage and scale but this comes at the expense of detail. It may be a better choice for untreated rooms. So what to do???? Before I order another 274B I’m going to spend some time with the type AWV 80 then with the Sophia and then compare the two. Another factor is that I got less than a year and half out of the Sophia. If that happens again theres not much chance that I’ll get another. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by busterfree on 05/12/19 at 11:09:33 It is unfortunate to lose any tube let alone an expensive tube. Hang in there. I have had a good experience with my Aqua. I only have one, and it will not come out of my CSP3-25. I have not had good luck finding great 80 tubes. They did not last long, and I have given up on them (for now). Enjoy the music! 
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 05/12/19 at 11:37:13 Sorry about the Aqua dying. From what I've read about Aquas throughout the web that's an unnaturally short life. Here's hoping your other (and all of ours) have longer lives. I have Type 80s that sound very good, but I've preferred the Aquas, and even from the description of the 80 you're using I would prefer the Aqua (and I do have an untreated room). Keep us posted and I hope you encounter no new problems. . . . |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 05/12/19 at 12:07:03 Thanks guys, I’m going to talk to Steve to make sure than nothing else could be contributing to the failure of the Sophia. In the meantime, got to get more fuses. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 08/17/19 at 17:25:05 Does Sophia make its own tubes, specifically the 274B? I ask because on another forum (Lampi related), others recall that Sophia tubes were at least in the past rebranded versions of others’ tubes. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 08/18/19 at 17:09:57 I got the answer to the question: Sophia designs and others make it to spec. Another question: Between the Aquas, is there a preference for the mesh plate vs. rigid plate? |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 08/18/19 at 17:15:30 The mesh plate are not designed to have a long life in the Decware amps--they are for 300B, 45 etc. amp circuits. The Aqua version is designed to work with the resistor values in the Decware amps. The mesh may sound a bit better (there are some reports to that effect) but it will not last long. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 08/18/19 at 17:35:02 Thanks. With a dac (Lampi), do you know if the value of the trailing capacitor would come into play in terms of tube wear, as it does with amps? |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 08/18/19 at 18:02:54 I can't say for certain, but I imagine it would. . . . |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by HockessinKid on 08/18/19 at 18:21:46 What piece of equipment are you using? HK |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 08/18/19 at 18:33:26 Lampizator Atlantic 2 TRP (TRP = tube rollers paradise), with tube rectification. It comes with a KR 5U4G for recti. The photo attached is of someone else's, while mine is in the process of being converted (upgraded). I'm looking at possibilities for both that and output, and came across this thread about the Sophia Aqua. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 08/18/19 at 20:37:30 I would suggest not using the mesh plate to replace a 5U4G. The Aqua would be the right choice. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by HockessinKid on 08/18/19 at 21:20:33 Aqua. HK |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by jslateiv on 09/30/19 at 12:49:12 Well, after ~6 months of solid daily use. Probably in the neighborhood of 1800-2000 hours of use. My Aqua 274B is giving up the ghost. Arch's/sparks every time on startup now. Tried in my 25th-Anniv amp and ZP3. I have pulled it and marked as bad. No reason waiting for it to blow a fuse or fry a resistor when it really goes. Kinda bummed that I only got 6 months out of it considering it was ~$160. Did sound good but as I have rolled in a few other rect's over the last few days I don't really feel like I'm missing it all that much. Currently using a Russian 5c3s with hanging filaments and it sounds excellent, and only $10 to boot!! Just figured I'd post my findings here for anyone else considering the Aqua 274B. I will say that if you do plan on purchasing one, I would def. incur the expense of the 'Warranty' for an extra $50 I think. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Geno on 09/30/19 at 13:55:46 I agree J. I think that for the money - and performance - you just cannot beat the 5C3S. About the best bass I’ve heard out of a rectifier. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 09/30/19 at 14:19:58 Man, sorry to hear that Johnny. I have four Aquas in use, considerably longer than six months, for seventeen months actually in my Monoblocks and counting and about a year in Taboo Mk IV and CSP3--and not a sign of a hiccup or problem. And I use them all a lot. And whenever I roll a dozen or so different rectifiers I always end up back with the Aquas, just the right rectifiers for me. Hope my luck continues! Sorry for those that have had failures. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by jslateiv on 09/30/19 at 19:36:58 So it goes,.. I guess it just goes to show that it can be hit or miss with these, thus my endorsement of the 'warranty', knowing that other have had issues too. That's great that your are holding up so well Lon. I know they see extended use like mine do! Just wish they had a bit tighter control on the reliability. Geno, I have been very impressed with the 5c3s I picked up from a Russian seller. A fellow I've actually bought a number of other (6p15-ev / 6n1p / 6n5p, etc..) tubes from. For the price and favorable comparison to other US brand NOS 5u4g's, I'm going to go ahead pick up another 5 or 6 just have in the drawer! |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Geno on 09/30/19 at 20:51:42 All of the Russian tubes you mentioned are 'Forever tubes' in my Zen. The combo is good to the point that I don't feel any urge to roll any of them anymore. I do go back and forth between the 6N1P and 6N5P, although the 5 has been in for the last 2 months. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 09/30/19 at 21:26:19 If bass is what you want try the Mullard GZ34/5AR4 Fat Base, Smooth Plate, F31 Code. This one is as close as you’re going to get to the Metal Base for a lot less than the Metal base, the mids and highs are among the best. It’s not as “cool” and doesn’t have the decay of the Metal Base but no other rectifier I’ve tried comes close. Probably can pick up a NOS for $50.00 more than the Sophia and IMO it’s money better spent than on the warrantee for the Aqua, based on my experience. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by jslateiv on 10/01/19 at 01:47:56 I don't find myself rolling much anymore either. I'm currently using a E288cc and everything is just right, but funny thing with this amp, I generally find that whatever I put in to try sounds just right (albeit maybe a little different). Joman, I've read your previous comments on the 5ar4's over the last few months and have been watching them on ebay. A metal base just went for ~$250. I have found some fat/smooth plates but non specifically called out for F31 though I have been watching. Def. not as many smooth plates out there as the notched versions. I'll keep my eyes open specifically for a F31 though . Thanks! |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 10/01/19 at 02:58:01 The F31, F32 refers to the date of manufacture. The F31 production is from 1958 - 1962. Many of these were branded for companies that made amps ie. IECO, but clearly and unmistakably Mullard/Blackburn. They are supposed to be very long lasting. The F31’s were the immediate successors to the Metal Base. I picked up A 1958 IECO branded GZ34 and that’s what started the whole process. I sure hope the Metal Base that I have last a very, very long time. Reportedly they can last upwards of 40 years or longer, we’ll see. If they last 20 they’ll be a steal and I’ll probably be partially deaf at that point. The F32 were made between 1963 - 1975, usually with 4 notches on the plate edges and I believe, later ones with eight notches. Stick to the F31 if at all possible. Not sure if I would go for the later ones. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 10/01/19 at 10:52:01 One other thing.... The F31 or F32 is etched in the glass bottle close to the base along with the Blackburn Factory Code |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 10/01/19 at 11:14:26 I just had a quick look on E Bay and it appears that eventually even the F31 Fat Base production went to 4 notched plates. I suspect that the Smooth Plate version of the F31 was 1958- 1959 production years, possibly 1960 also. So it is a rare tube now days, unfortunately. However given their reputed longevity, may be well worth looking for. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 10/01/19 at 14:36:07 jslateiv wrote on 10/01/19 at 01:47:56:
I agree with this Johnny. As I've had no issues with my Aquas I've used these and Steve's carefully matched and tested output tubes as my "anchors" and find that I can roll voltage regulation tubes and input tubes around them and get great sound from a number of combinations, in effect having a number of different excellent amplifiers. At the moment I'm using a pair of Arcturus 0B3 that have just the right tonal qualities to allow me to use an all Amperex signal chain otherwise: 7308s in the ZTPRE, and 6085 in the ROCK2 and Monoblocks. The 6085 work fabulously in my Mononblocks whether they should or not. They allow me to pump a little more gain into the amps and I am getting a full, rich, textured sound. I haven't been that impressed with Mullard rectifiers I've used in my amps so am not tempted to explore these expensive options. I'm sure I could roll a number of tube combinations and find better fits than I have before, but I'm just inclined to stay with what I have and am familiar with rolling around. Regarding the E288CC I have three Valvos with gold pins that are fascinating tubes. I have used them to great effect in my CSP3-25 preamp. I love tall input tubes, they seem to have a complementary magic to tall rectifiers. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by jslateiv on 10/01/19 at 15:27:09 That's interesting on the 6085 in your Mono's, I'll have to try that out. I have not found it to be overly favorable in the ZR2. Seems to want to clip/distort to quickly for me in that position. I figure it's the very low operating point at which the ZR2 drives the tube from. The 25th should be operating it at a much closer to 'wanted' point though with higher plate voltage and bias then the ZR2. Joman, do you have any experience with the Matsushita (Japanese Mullard) GZ34 smooth plate? Supposedly same tooling and material. Def. alot cheaper then English made. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 10/01/19 at 16:24:25 No I do not have any experience with the Matsushita GZ34. If you try one of these make sure it’s not a re branded soviet rectifier, look at the plate structure. Evidently that’s what some of the Japanese GZ34’s are/were, so why pay more for a rebranded tube. I did try two versions of Philips Holland Made GZ34’s smooth plate ‘skinnier base’. Often you get that these are very close to the metal base or as good as the Fat Base Mullard/Blackburn and I wanted to find out for myself what that meant in reality. One was a Philips BB the other a Valvo. The BB has F31 X9D etchings with “Made in Holland” on it. The Valvo etchings are hard to make out but I can make out X9G which would indicate that it is a Philips made tube. Didn’t pay a lot, about $80.00 ea. In no way are these similar to the Mullard Fat Base and not even remotely close to the Metal Base. This is the part that is hard to accept... that there is a significant difference between these. If you start with the cheaper “close to” versions you will not want to even consider spending the big bucks for the other two. I sure wouldn’t. I started with the Mullard 1958 Fat Base and was very surprised and impressed. Because of that I then went to the Metal Base. I just had to find out what “close to” actually meant in reality. An expensive education, but boy, there’s no way I could have possibly guessed that there would be that kind of difference and what that difference would be as it doesn’t fall into the typical “expected” difference/result. I agree with Lon. The other GZ34’s were not that impressive and at $80.00... OK, but not my preference. So, IMO, it’s the Mullard Fat Base Smooth Plate 1958 - 1959 or if one has the stomach and cash for the cost the Metal Base 1955-1957. I for one did not think that I would ever think that spending $350 - $450 on a tube would be worth it. I do now understand why some spend double that for those, I just don’t have that kind of money to spend on a tube. Rather spend that on the Anniversary upgrades. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 10/01/19 at 17:13:23 jslateiv wrote on 10/01/19 at 15:27:09:
Interesting. I'm getting excellent sound with the 6085 in the ZROCK2, though admittedly best when used with the same tube in the amps, and with careful adjustment of gain with the DSD, ZTPRE, ZBIT and amps. I'm getting a very black background with large instrumental images and especially good dynamic playback, both micro and macro. It has unseated the 5814A from the ZROCK2, which was not easy to do! What wonderful components these are. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Chester on 09/14/20 at 20:45:31 Hey there, This thread has not seen much action in awhile, but I just came across some information that I am curious about. Quick back story: Soon after getting my Torii Jr. I put in a Valve Art 274B from Decware and liked the sound but it only lasted about a month before it started arcing and blew. From this forum, I heard about the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B and ordered one. Wow! I loved the sound and was really excited. The Aqua lasted for about 2 months before arcing and then I was able to coax it along for another month before it blew the internal fuses. I actually sent the Torii back to Steve to check out. Of course, it was fine. Meanwhile, I called Sophia Electric to get a replacement for the 274B and they mentioned the max current load. Being new to all of this, I had no idea what they meant (and still don't). As far as I can tell, the Torii Jr. has a 280 mA demand (stated in the manual), Sue (from Sophia Electric) stated the max current for the 274B is either 90 mA (for the mesh plate) or 160 mA (for the rigid). Further searching found that many 274B rectifiers have a max current well below what the Torii Jr. wants. So, I am curious about the following: Many members here have used the Sophia Electric in their amps (including the Torii Jr.) and even Steve has mentioned that it is a suitable replacement for the 5U4. Have I just had bad luck with the 274B tubes I have tried or are they being pushed beyond the limit in other amps but still working? I would love to get that sound back in my amp, but (as some of you know) it is an expensive proposition if left up to luck. Could I get a closer sound by changing the input tubes? Thanks for any input or thoughts. Happy listening. - Chester |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 09/14/20 at 21:33:13 I don't know what to say about usage of this tube. I have been using these tubes in my CSP3, CSP2, Taboo Mk IV and SE84UFO3 Monoblocks for over two years now, continuously in use in one component or another. Mostly in the amps. No issues! I honestly think it's hard to get the same sound with other tubes. . . it is a singular sound. . . . I wonder what their 5U4 tubes sound like and what they say about thier "limits." |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by piezoman on 09/14/20 at 21:50:50 I remember another forum member, JOMAN, had trouble with this tube. I think he had two blow in his amp (I think a SEAUFO2, or a SEAUFO25). I believe it was chalked up to faulty quality of Aqua tubes that were in his possession. I purchased one if these, but I haven't even listened yet.....enjoying the Mullard GZ34 fat base (1959) too much. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Chester on 09/15/20 at 06:34:20 Thank you for your replies. I had wondered if the other amps didn’t have the same issue because they had different mA draws than the Torii Jr. At this time, they are sold out of their 5U4s. I had bought one of them and that failed as well. There are definitely some quality issues. The sound is still good with a different rectifier - it’s just tough when you find that singular sound you really like and you might not get it back easily. Ah, the journey... Thanks, again, and happy listening. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by s3steve on 09/15/20 at 21:23:37 I have a few different rectifier tubes now, don't we all! The two Art Valve 274B's that came with the amps, one Tube Store preferred series. Both of these sound the same to me. Plus a couple of Russian Winged -C-'s. I also followed Steve's advise and bought a cheap GE NOS 5AR4. Less than $30 to my door! Then on Ebay I bought a 5Y3GT for $6.99 plus shipping. Keep in mind this is Canadian dollars! They both sound better then any of the 274B's. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 09/17/20 at 15:20:56 Piezoman is correct. I had two Sophia 274B Aqua fail. One within a year and one on start up, no hours on it. It’s not the amp. I chalked it up to inconsistent production quality. That experience has completely put me off of Chinese tubes. So now I’m squarely in the NOS tube camp, not promoting NOS tubes just stating my choice based on my experience. Yes I liked the sound of the Sophia Aqua 274B a lot. But it does not come close to my current rectifier in the UFO25 and the CSP3. And that’s based on my tastes and set up. These are nose bleed. stupid expensive now and for me there’s no going back. I hope they last for the rest of my listening life and I think they will. I realize the GZ34 Metal base is not going to be in everyone’s budget or taste. I have had good success with other NOS tubes and if you can find ones that suit your taste and budget that would be my recommendation. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 09/17/20 at 15:50:25 It's too bad, these failures. I'm still enjoying my Aquas without a hitch, now in my audio/visual Taboo Mk IV-25th/CSP2+25th system. Just great sound. I'll never spend that kind of money on GZ34 tubes. . . that tube type just isn't as sympatico in my systems as others. I have a pair of Mullards (not metal base) I keep trying to like with little success. Right now in my main system I'm using Cunningham Type 80 Globe rectifiers in all three positions. I wanted a change and got one, but boy I had to work at it. I went from Steve's 6N5P and a special pair of 6N6P to all Amperex 7308 (luckily owned for about four years) in all signal positions except the Monoblocks and ZROCK2 which have the Amperex 6085. Now according to Steve the 6085 are not supposed to work. They do though. They have an amazing open sound, a transparent midrange and natural treble. They are a tad bass light in this setup. I can mediate that almost completely with just the right voltage regulators for the output tubes (right now the perfect one is the one pair of Arcturus 0B3 that I have). Its just a tad lean. I'm going to roll Type 80 Globes in the CSP3-25 to see if I can get just a touch of warmth. An Arcturus I had died unfortunately as it may have been just right. I have a Philco on the way to me. Despite that hint of leanness I'm getting phenomenal sound right now--clear, focused, dynamic. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 09/17/20 at 17:45:02 Of the GZ34’s that I’ve tried the one thing that really surprised me is that they’re very different one from the other. The metal base has a very unique sound that no other GZ34 has. The Mullard fat base, no notches on the plates, F1 also is very different from other GZ34’s. These are the only two that I liked. In no other tube have I found this great a difference within the same type and until I tried a few I did not believe that this was possible. As far as the cost goes, at one time I felt the same. After experiencing the GZ34 Metal base I got to thinking about how much we spend on associated components; cables, connectors, fuses etc. So if I’m willing to spend thousands on accessories why are tubes any different? I looked at how much I have spent in my over all rectifier purchases and came to the conclusion that if I had spent the money on the Metal Base to start with I would have saved money, time and got far more enjoyment out of the rolling. My Aquas cost somewhere between $300.00 - $400.00 for the pair, plus the fuses that they took out in the process. I paid that for one Metal Base. I’ve spent hundreds on other rectifiers. The GZ32’s were $125.00 ea. Others were between $30.00 and 60.00 ea. (Anyone want some??). In my professional life we used to weigh the cost of purchase against the cost of use. Many times the costlier item to purchase lasted longer and had other cost reducing benefits, so that in reality it was cheaper over all. There’s an expression that has some merit, “I’m too poor to buy twice”. Not disagreeing with you or anyone if their decision is to limit the amount they will spend on any tube or accessory. I just found that there is good reason to look at tubes as we would all the other accessories that we buy because they can have a very profound effect. The conclusion that I came to was that the GZ34 Metal Base released the full potential of my UFO25 and CSP3. Can a person have exceptional performance with other options? Of course they can. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 09/17/20 at 18:12:27 No argument from me, I just have had to face the reality that I am a. on a fixed retirement income b. always going to keep buying music as that is why I like audio and that cost dominates my discretionary income and c. I am a restless tube nut and I keep swapping out complements. If I thought that this were an "end all" for me I would think differently. My big money tube buying days were around for a bit but in reality they aren't around for me any longer. What also gives me pause is that Mullards in general don't seem to meld with my system. I have inputs, voltage regulators and rectifiers made in Britain labeled Mullard and they would be among the first I'd let go--their "house sound" doesn't seem to gell. Herleen Holland and Russian and American are more compatible with my sound preferences. I do have a ceiling point on tubes. Reviews of the Aquas made me go over it and I have them with no issues, and really find them heavy caliber in my arsenal--and I don't need to seek out a holy grail tube right now. And at the conclusion to my last post I realized I should have an RCA Type 80 Globe, found it, popped it in the CSP3-25th, and it IS providing a bit of what I am lacking with the present complements--I'm enjoying the new bit of bass and spatial data it imparts. I'm learning that an identical rectifier in all three of the components is not necessarily the best configuration--usually a different brand or different type in the preamp than the Monoblocks gives an extra something. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 09/18/20 at 16:06:21 I found the same in my system until I put the Metal Base in, usually I would have different rectifiers in the amp and preamp. Even with the Mullard Fat Base in the amp I used a different rectifier in the preamp. I think in the pre I had a FAT Bottle French made GZ32 which I actually liked more than the Mullard GZ32. This was a rare rectifier made in France for the German Navy. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 09/18/20 at 17:31:02 I'm glad you have the pair to end all pairs; I'd be bored or suffer through lesser sound--I change tubes for a number of reasons but often with source material--different LP vintages, unofficial recordings and not so great recordings, fantastic hires discs, etc. I have realized no one complement will be appropriate for all. Today I realize that for the last few months I have been using the Monoblocks with the treble cut circuit bypassed. With it on and some treble and ZROCK2 adjustment that little bit of balance correction I've been seeking is there. Ah! |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/07/21 at 20:45:31 I just today received an Aqua 274B to use in a Lampi Atlantic TRP dac, though it can be used in my Supratek preamp as well. The dac has Aqua EL-34s, which are as advertised. First sense is a very good recti, on the warm side (vs., e.g., the mid 1950s RCA 5U4G top getter). To be seen if it is soothing and rounded with fewer details than other tubes, as someone found (for me, a bit fewer details is ok if the tone works for my tastes and staging is otherwise good). The reason I write tho is about price vs. warranty. The $40 difference for one year, 23.5%, is relatively large and makes me wonder if it’s meant to help protect Sophia against variable production quality. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by piezoman on 09/08/21 at 18:19:03 Quote:
No doubt about it. They are Chinese tubes, after all is said and done, and Chi-com mfd. tubes along eith most eveything else are notoriously lousy when ot comes to quality assurance. Aside from even that, I would do everything practical to avoid purchasing audio anything, or anything else, from communist China. The CCP laughs hard and long as we fund their stated goal of singular worldwide total dominance by purchasing so much from them, our military and commercial secrets stolen on a daily basis unimpeded, and they laugh hard and long at what they got away with regarding their Wuhan bio attack. Brad |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 09/08/21 at 18:38:14 I've used 3 Aquas for three years without an issue--my favorite rectifier for my amps. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by HockessinKid on 09/08/21 at 21:00:59 I have had a great experience with a Sophia Electric Aqua 274b rectifier as in my CSP3+ preamp. Bought a back up just in case, but the original has been going strong for over 3 years. Long live this Chinese tube! HK |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by will on 09/08/21 at 23:44:02 From piezo: "...Chi-com mfd. tubes along eith most eveything else are notoriously lousy when ot comes to quality assurance. Aside from even that, I would do everything practical to avoid purchasing audio anything, or anything else, from communist China. The CCP laughs hard and long as we fund their stated goal of singular worldwide total dominance by purchasing so much from them, our military and commercial secrets stolen on a daily basis unimpeded, and they laugh hard and long at what they got away with regarding their Wuhan bio attack." Seems like everyone hears/reads these and other narratives about China, and if interested, can do research and draw personal conclusions. I also think for most on this Forum, supporting each other toward great audio is a refuge from cultured divisiveness and all its effects. For the most part, this seems to be a rare place where people with different beliefs and political leanings can come together and truly try to help one another find a better audio experience...something we all love. So why bring divisive ideology into this refuge??? Functionally, as designed, seems to me anger loaded ideology makes coming together for solutions nearly impossible, while becoming an incredible energy drain, energy that could be used for improving the world. To me, the vast efforts required to dig through politicized warfare as we seek solutions is an unbelievably inefficient use of our limited life energy, and whatever time is left in our lives. I can only imagine what we could accomplish for bettering life on earth if ideological warfare were replaced with less biased logic and reality seeking. But relative to this thread, in part questioning "Chinese" quality..... Seems to me that many "American made" things (or wherever) are good, and many not necessarily worth buying. At the same time, doesn't competition from other world entities encourage Americans to find ways to get better? Like most of us on this forum, I am careful about anything I buy, doing research as needed. And, maybe lucky, but most everything made in China I have is good.... My DAC was extra nice new, and is world class after modding it.... My modified USB convertor is amazing. The few cables I have, cable ends and other audio connectors I use from China have all been really good. My balanced power supply is a great design and very well made. I had to change some caps and the fuse to increase transparency, but basically, it was impressively good to start. A DAC I am finally considering as possibly better than the one I am using is designed and built by Chinese guy who has amazing tech savy, and obviously listens while designing. Similarly lots of newer small tech folks in China are enhancing our lives with something special, think of Lii Audio. And relative to the bigger Chinese companies, my current favorite power tubes in my Torii, Shuguang-made tubestore preferred 6L6GCs are really good tubes...To me they are the overall best sounding of the many, many new power tubes I have tried, as well as several highly respected NOS power tubes. So, lots of bad happening by reports in China, but also good, and personally, I suspect supporting the good anywhere is helping the world. I can't speak much to the longevity of the Sophia 274Bs as I don't think I have used them for more than a week at a time. But the ones I bought lightly used have been reliable so far for many shortish periods when I do use them. I am all for "voting with our dollars." And personally, I like supporting innovators who are creative, making good things, and treating workers well. Politics aside, seems supporting good work and people anywhere in our world can make it a little better.... not to mention enhancing my audio journey! |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/09/21 at 01:01:44 will, I appreciate your comments. I’m thinking though that piezoman’s rant, about which I have nothing in common, is better left alone. If he doesn’t want to buy Chinese and blame them for whatever world problem, that’s his business and there’s nothing we write that will change that. I’d hate to see the thread diverted and the administrator have get involved. So far I’ve heard both smooth and rough and constrained and open since the 274B’s addition, as to be expected in the first 15 hours. Developers often say 100 hours for burn in, but I’ve never come across anything that beat 250 beats, and that figure is pretty much reserved to SR fuses and tubes. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by will on 09/09/21 at 09:38:31 Hey highstream, I get your thoughts, and also tend to hope that little bursts of polarizing politics will settle if ignored. But since I have read similar here recently, I hoped experiential alternatives might help broaden the picture, while touching on how divisive talk can effect the health of the forum. Also, in my experience, a fair bit off forum, piezo tends to be quite receptive to interesting ideas. Seems most of us comment in the context of the thread on this forum, but it is not uncommon for posts to broaden some with related discussion that can support better audio.... like the side tracks here into other rectifiers, or perhaps my recent post, a lot of it "off-topic" but responding to recent replies while trying to support forum health. I think this points to part of the charm of this forum....unlike many administrators, Steve tends to being mostly hands off on thread and post guidance, presumably letting the tradition of helpful information and mostly friendly support guide the way. And I feel like part of that is all of us collectively encouraging each other (hopefully mostly by example) to be supportive of audio beauty and to avoid things that draw us away from that. I had to look at my profile to see how long I have been active here, and was surprised to see it was late 2009 when I started posting. And since then, though I could easily have missed some, I can only recall one thread where Steve intervened in a notable way as administrator. And that thread had deteriorated quickly and deeply into rough political and personal discord, quickly turning audio friends into enemies, and probably causing real damage for some of us in terms of forum participation. So after a bit, when it did not seem to be losing steam or sorting itself out, Steve pulled it. I guess the main thing for me, is trying help each other streamline our audio quest, supporting a deeper audio experience with less challenges and cost. So I was hoping to broaden the picture, while pointing to how special this forum is in its friendly and giving way, and how fragile that can become if we let over-simplified and polarizing cultural traps that plague our world leak into our forum. On the Sophia 274B, from many posts on the forum, I don't think there is any question that their reliability with at least some Decware power supplies can be touch and go. I recall as I started looking at used ones, I went to the Sophia site and was relieved to see the rigid plate 274B was designed differently than traditional 274s, so it could work with 47uF power supply caps. I don't recall logging mA ratings, but the following from Chester's Reply #61 might describe the issue. "Meanwhile, I called Sophia Electric to get a replacement for the 274B and they mentioned the max current load. Being new to all of this, I had no idea what they meant (and still don't). As far as I can tell, the Torii Jr. has a 280 mA demand (stated in the manual), Sue (from Sophia Electric) stated the max current for the 274B is either 90 mA (for the mesh plate) or 160 mA (for the rigid). Further searching found that many 274B rectifiers have a max current well below what the Torii Jr. wants." I don't know enough about Decware specs to verify, but this post to me implies the possibility of the current specs perhaps being the culprit that causes them to be touch and go in our amps.... and maybe some are better than others at getting pushed beyond spec??? I feel fortunate that the ones I have are standing up to my Torii and CSP3 so far, but I can't seem to keep them in. I like them every time at first, but in my system, it usually does not take long before a slightly off-natural character shows up for me.... like they are intellectually correct, having most of what we might expect from a nice tube, but perhaps not quite flawless in how they blend those traits, so messing with engagement for me. I have been lucky, having come into a lot of nice rectifiers, and my system is particularly resolving, but still, with this tube so popular, I was surprised how many tubes I like better, and at much less cost. The most costly of some of my favorite tubes in recent years, RGN1064s (4 volt and need adapters), is a pair of mesh plate globes from the 30s, and the pair cost less than one new Aqua 274B without warranty. These tubes are also perhaps borderline electronically for most Decware amps, but several have been holding up here for years of serious play. Lately, testing a bunch of 5U4GBs and a few 5U4G-STs for another forum member, I am reminded how good some of those can be, rekindling an old love for a late forties Raytheon fat bottle GB with two top/side horseshoe getters, and an unusual stepped base like a short version of a 5R4WGB "potato masher" base. It sounds really beautiful in my current system, nothing overstated, and nothing missing, great space and fine detail, and having a slight euphonic feel that I usually tire of, but with these really enjoy. I do keep trying the Sophias as my system morphs, and hopefully, one day they might create beautiful synergy with my setup as they have with others. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 09/10/21 at 03:23:45 The reason I write tho is about price vs. warranty. The $40 difference for one year, 23.5%, is relatively large and makes me wonder if it’s meant to help protect Sophia against variable production quality. I think that the question raised is a good one and I like to share some thoughts specifically as they pertain to this question. Short answer is: I don't know but I sure hope that is the case! To that I'll add that no matter where any item is made, no matter who makes an item and no matter what the item is, electronics, furniture, cars etc there will be failures. A business has to try to anticipate the rate of failure and for the purpose of maintaining good customer satisfaction, cover those costs in the initial price of the item. A mfg company will establish processes that will try to meet a set standard of quality and performance and that standard is not necessarily "the best or nothing". It's a standard that is designed to meet the expectations of a target market. Which means that they've should have done some market research to know what their target market expects. Based on my experience with Sophia I would suggest that they would be better off not giving the option and simply charging the higher price so as to avoid these types of questions and simply give the best service that their target market expects. I have to admit that, IMO, I am not in the target market of the Sophia. Subsequently I purchased a rectifier tube that was for more expensive not to get better "sound", but to get better longevity and as a bonus I did get better sound. There's nothing wrong with me not being included in the Sophia target market. When I purchase something I expect to pay large for a very hi level of followup service and support. I recently purchased a car for my wife and gladly paid in advance for four years of service and extended warrantees that cover everything and I mean EVERYTHING (including wheels, tires and windshields)! For the final question: Am I in the Decware target market taking into consideration the above comments??? After a couple of service matters and the willing answers that I get to my PIA questions, IMO, most emphatically, YES! The bonus... I didn't have to pay large to get the exceptional Decware service. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/10/21 at 03:39:35 In one sense, I think it would better if Sophia cut out the 1 month vs 1 year stuff. A company should just stand behind what it sells for a reasonable amount of time. At the same time, they are a business and presumably to stay afloat are trying to capture a broader share of customers. I'm guessing the 274B variability, for example, is not great enough to ditch the 1-month offer -- not enough to develop a poor rep -- but enough to charge a lot more for a year. With most electronics, if something makes it through a month it's good to go. That's not so much the case with modern tubes. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by JOMAN on 09/10/21 at 04:35:06 I would agree. That's why I felt that I needed to go the NOS tube route. having said that, you do not necessarily have to "pay large." As Will pointed out there are options for less than what I paid that will give a very "reasonable" service life. IF you were to decide to try the NOS route, have a look at the UFO25 Manual under Rectifiers. It points to three things to consider when buying NOS Rectifiers, this is specific to the UFO25 but I think that it's good to take certain precautions. Unfortunately, eventually NOS tubes will be hard to get and as that happens prices will increase... supply and demand will determine price. IF the rectifiers that I got last as long as they reportedly do or can, they will be the last rectifiers that I will buy. IF that turns out to be the case then the annual cost will be less than $20.00 per year, if they only last 5 years, which I'm confident that they will, the cost will be $60.00 per year. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/10/21 at 08:57:37 The Sophia came after trying many older rectis, some NOS and some used. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Macfly4 on 08/24/23 at 03:16:16 No idea when it came out but has anyone tried the aqua”II” new version? new-sophia-electric-aqua-ii-274b |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 08/24/23 at 06:06:28 I'm 164 hours in right now with the Aqua II in a Lampi Golden Gate III. It has some things going for it, and in those respects is a clear improvement on the Aqua I. But I don't make a decision about a tube (or most anything else) until it's stabilized sonically, which for tubes is around 300 hours in my experience (just on for a tube). I have it on a 14 day audition, which means a decision by next Wednesday. Remind me if I forgot to add something here. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Lon on 08/24/23 at 13:34:22 Thanks for those impressions on the Aqua II. I'll look forward to further impressions and how they might differ/improve upon the Aqua. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/02/23 at 03:43:25 This is what I posted at a What's Best Forum tube rolling thread. The Aqua II is a very good tube, but I decided to stick with the 1950's Telefunken AZ1 while I look at other possibilities that improve on the latter's characteristics. The thought that came to mind during the final appraisal of the Aqua II at 302 hours was that if one wanted to show off their system to non audiophile friends or ones with a lower end system, this would be a good tube to use. It does most everything well and gives a very dynamic, articulate and delicate sound with lots of presence. It’s entertaining and easy to listen to. I think it’s a great option for those that don't want to or can't afford to pay the big bucks of the more precious NOS tubes. Sophia told me the Aqua II is "neutral," just like live music, as they advertise ("life-like"). That's not my taste, but after a reply they offered me 14 days, so I bit. It sounded very decent right out of the box, and at about 150 hours in the sound did turn neutral, that is, clean and to my ears dry. That lasted until around 260 hours, when a touch of warmth appeared, the latter becoming maybe two touches over the next day and a half (I left the tube on the whole time, save an occasional short break, pulling the power tubes every night). Btw, given these kinds of transitions in sound, which I've found last for every new or lightly used tube I've burned in well into the 200's, I wait until around 300 hours to give a call. I think the biggest revelation I had in the comparison with the AZ1 was that some tubes have a thinner (not thin), clearer and more precise sound, something more like live music, while others have a relatively "thicker" sound (audiophile terms for these characteristics?). Without realizing the difference, I've chosen the latter type over the years, because the transparent ones have lacked any touch of warmth or sweetness to draw me in. The AZ1 is the first to be different, i.e., have a touch of warmth to go along with its great transparency, although it took around 305 hours of burn in to get there. I take it from some of the descriptions over on the WBF Horizon tube thread there are some other NOS that do so as well and sound even better. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Tony on 09/02/23 at 04:18:15 Nice review highstream. I was unfamiliar with the Telefunken AZ1, so I added it to my search/reading list. I have been impressed and enjoyed the Classic Sophia, but lately, some good rectifier suggestions are coming up from the group. I did a quick search, but could not find Telefunken AZ1, did find some others. Do you have a suggestion where to look? |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/02/23 at 04:32:31 No I don’t. I got mine from a private party that had purchased several and was selling what he didn’t need. He might have one left, a 1940’s version, but I wouldn’t advise it, based on initial listen to a 1930’s one he sent. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Tony on 09/02/23 at 05:01:18 Right after I asked, I found a number listed with hifishark, in case anyone is interested. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/02/23 at 07:35:03 Tony, not so quick. Mine are mesh plate and the better one, I was told is 1950’s. At eBay, it has the bottom pin style of the one listed on April 17 of this year, or shown here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325621128342?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=720c3b96-4958-11ee-b26d-393366336262. However, my tubes are globes, as shown in some of the others. That style bottom needs an an adapter, AZ1 to 5U4G/5Y3, vs. the regular pin style of the others, which takes an RGN1064 to 5U4G/5Y3 adapter. There’s a guy in China that sells them, https://www.ebay.com/str/xulingaudiolabs. Note that they are decent quality adapters sonically, but not the highest quality, which takes a custom job. I also can’t find a listing of Telefunken date codes that correspond to the three digits on the base of my tubes. I was told they are Telefunkens by the guy I got them from, who has a good rep on WBF and believe is honest, but I don’t find the brand name on either one I have. I can't figure out this site's attachment instructions for security, so here's a link to a photo of the AZ1 + adapter I wrote about: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AqsCKHVTj0ydrE_SAHIAaBxq2lec?e=jZ6oj8 |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by Tony on 09/02/23 at 14:21:52 Thanks, highstream for the additional info. I am still researching, so all this is helpful. I saw one picture of the pins at the bottom of the tube you referred me to, and it was unlike anything I had seen before. That's where the adapter comes in, but from my limited experience, it looked unusual. |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by will on 09/02/23 at 18:00:37 Tony, AZ1 is the same electronically as the 4 Volt, 1.1 amp Euro rectifiers I have been talking about, but different pinouts for each ... AZ1, AZ11, RGN1064. And each have lots of different vintages, makes and constructions. There are also higher amperage varieties that have the same pinouts/adapters. Like the B4 four pin base of the RGN1064 works with higher powered but also 4 volt, 2.2-2.3 amp UU4, UU5 and U14 tubes that have more push. Or AZ11 adapters work with more powered up AZ12s... And more...so a lot out there using these three pinout setups. But as I have said, I don't personally feel like I can recommend these without more knowledge about the effects of using these relatively low power 4 volt tubes in Decware, which is set up for 5 volt rectifiers. The tubes have high reservoir cap ratings, so theoretically not an issue with that part, but still rated at 4 volts and fairly low 1.1 amps. And listening, I know these AZ1, AZ11, RGN1064, lead to less output power than higher power rectifiers. But my sense is that this is a part of what makes them so complete and nuanced... causing the power and signal of following tubes and electronics to be less concentrated and pushed, and thus more easily revealing more complexity, good spectral range, and pretty real feeling speeds. I really wish someone here who knows would hypothesize on the effects of 4 volt/lower amperage tubes versus 5 volts higher amperage relative to tube life and the amps, as I would really like to know. I have been working on my 300B amp, and don't want to try the 1.1 amp/ 60 mA rectifier like the AZ1, 300Bs reputed to require pretty high power rectifiers and five volts on the cathodes important for the tube. I do wonder about using the higher power variants like AZ12 or U14s though... what would be the causes and effects... potential consequences or adjustments needed to accommodate the lower voltage rated tubes. In my Decware use, as I said in some threads here, I have had only a few of this lower power family get noisy or fail over the many years I have used them in my Torii IV and CSP3. But I do roll them, so spread the use out. At the same time, while in heavy mod states with my amps, I kept in the same RGN1064s most of the time for I think several years... They were solid plate Telefunken globes, I think '37. To me solid plates seem less vulnerable than mesh plates which I have used a lot too. Anyway, the ways I have used them, mostly all good for me, in my amps, but I would love for someone to educate me about the electronic and other technical nuances of using these tubes in 5 volt setups. Finally, there were lots of these varieties made over decades, and there are lots of varieties within each of the lower power groups, the AZ1, AZ11, RGN1064....some the mesh plate globes, and the straight bottle solid plate Telefunkens like highstream pointed to. I have quite a few mesh plate globes, some labelled Telefunken and some Phillips that look very much like the same tubes, with some having minor variations in the plate construction. Also quite a few with solid plates, straight bottles, globes and ST shape. Like the straight bottle Telefunken highstream linked, I have several different versions of this basic type... some are taller, some shorter, different names and pinouts, most labelled Telefunkens, and all nice tubes. These are all definitely family soundwise, but different enough to make choices depending on all else and associated preferences at a given time. Related, the (I think) newer ST shaped tubes with solid plates are generally not as nuanced and refined. But within that, good sounding and low cost last I bought any, which admittedly was probably 4-5 years or more ago, but guess they are still tending to be pretty low cost relative to many others. If anyone can educate us on these tubes relative to our use in 5 volt settings, please do! Thanks, Will |
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Title: Re: New Sophia Electric Aqua 274B tube Post by highstream on 09/02/23 at 18:21:14 Thanks for stepping in Will with the informative post. I’m using the AZ1 in a Lampi Golden Gate 3 dac with WE 300B’s, but understandably an amp has different needs. Tony, that bottom pin style shown in my photo seems to have been common in Europe for awhile, at least in the early 1950’s, as I’ve had Tesla EL51’s with it. Perhaps Will or someone else knows more. |
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