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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> using two sets of speaker wires from one output
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Message started by SonicSeeker on 04/19/17 at 16:37:08

Title: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by SonicSeeker on 04/19/17 at 16:37:08

I was wondering if there would be any issue using two sets of wires from one output on my TORII Jr.
I find my copper wires give me better bass and my silver wires give me better detail.
My speakers are very simple, they have two sets of inputs on the back and the lower goes to the large drivers through a coil and the upper goes through one capacitor to the ribbon tweeters and I wanted to run my silver to the tweeters and the copper to the large drivers. I am trying it now and like the results.
Any concerns with the amp by doing this?

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by Lon on 04/19/17 at 17:23:09

As far as I know it should be fine. Try the other way too, copper to tweeter. . . .

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by SonicSeeker on 04/19/17 at 17:41:38

Actually that was my original intention and what I found is I get better detail with the silver to the tweeter and much better bass with the copper to the large drivers. What started this was wondering how the speakers would sound with copper versus silver, I wondered if the high end would calm down a little with the copper and noticed by accident the bass was much better but the detail was worse. My room is loud and has bad slap echo so the highs can be a little intense at times. Running with the copper and silver in this arrangement improved the lower end enough that it sounds better balanced now and the highs don't seem as amplified, cool. I will, as soon as funds allow, be adding some more room treatments also, and trying some 6L6G tubes.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something that could be harmful even though I didn't think so I figured it would be good to throw this out there.

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by Lon on 04/19/17 at 17:53:00

Great. I know how important getting just the right sound from speaker wire is. I've settled nicely into the sound I'm getting from the Mapleshade thin, hardly insulated cyro'd copper set I'm using. I've preferred it to other copper and to silver-coated copper cables I've tried. I haven't tried silver cabling for speakers yet. I find that copper works really well for interconnects, and so does silver, but my system doesn't seem to lead me to prefer silver-coated copper to either separately. With this speaker wire I've tried all copper, all silver, silver-plated copper and the one that stayed (and multiplied!) were the VooDoo Cable which use both copper and silver conductors, and cry's them. Finding the right cabling matters! I find that copper works really well for interconnects, and so does silver, but my system doesn't seem to lead me to prefer silver-coated copper to either separately.

On the Hoffman forum there's a long thread about bi-wiring and jumper cabling for speakers. It's amazing how wide a divide of opinion there is there, which is the polite way of saying I'm surprised there are so many who can't hear or don't "believe" in a difference between types of wire. I keep wondering "what would they hear from Decware gear?'

Hopefully if you are going to do longterm damage to the amp someone will chime in pretty damned quick. I think you may be shortening the life of your output tubes a bit at the worst. If the sound is what you want and you're using new production tubes. . . then I think you can kick back and enjoy.

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by SonicSeeker on 04/19/17 at 18:14:09

I agree Lon, I don't even get into discussions I read about not hearing differences, they can be frustrating just to read.
I also believe that different equipment qualities allow you to hear all of the differences and others don't. Decware gear is of the quality that definitely lets you hear everything you change, and the speakers I have do as well.
I have seen wires that are made of one run of silver and one of copper or gold and copper etc. where it is one pair of connectors on the amp end but two pair at the speaker end allowing you to run one type to one driver terminal and the other type to the other terminal allowing two different materials designed to best benefit the individual drivers so I figured this was basically the same thing, just a poor mans version :)

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by will on 04/19/17 at 19:58:30

My DIY speaker cables are in some way based on Synergistic Research's cables, with multi-metal, multi-wires. Starting the path, I had a nice used pair of SR Copper Elements I was using. Then trying NOS WE 16 gauge wire, I liked things about it a lot, but it was too small for good power/flow to my HR1s...a little lean in the mids (especially low)...not enough bass in the balance. So I started experimenting with more strands of it. Three 16s brought up the flow/dynamics and bass pretty well, but also amplified the mid/upper mid emphasis of the wire, making it too hard. And this in turn, compounded the issue I have of the slightly rolled off top of the WE (as I recall anyway). So I added a strand, then two, of silver plated copper/teflon to one WE, also 16 gauge, hoping to bring up the top with the silver, and the mids/bass with both silver and copper, hopefully contributing both of their sounds (experienced with other silver on copper wires). This got a bit too tight and brittle (a potential issue with silver plated copper depending on the cables), though the balance got pretty good...the bass and low mids filled in, and the top opened up. Two WEs and one copper/silver also sounded "off" to me.

Following SR, I ended up with one solid/pure silver wire in oversized teflon, one solid/pure copper wire in oversized teflon, one very small titanium plated copper wire in oversized teflon, and one WE wire...Twisted to sound, finished with silver plated pure copper bananas, and adding a few Mad Scientists noise suckers (also to sound), and these cables to me beat my SR Copper Elements by a fair bit.

This was a long time ago and I have never gotten any sense it could be wrong for the amp or speakers.

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by SonicSeeker on 04/19/17 at 20:38:43

Dang Will.
I am actually surprised at how much better they sound with such a simple little change, I can't imagine if I had all of the options to try as you did how it would effect the sound, oh wait I forgot cables don't make any difference. ;)

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by will on 04/19/17 at 21:19:27

Mine were pretty fun for me, experimenting along and along with my favorite cable to date, SR Copper, as a reference...so no sacrifice.

I tried a number of variations with what was around, then thought about it. Liking the dreamy potential of what I was hearing if I could fix the problems, and thinking I could fine-tune with a greater variety of wires, I ordered some things. I got lucky with the right combination of gauges and wire types.... extended, revealing, neutral, fast and smooth...slightly warm...not hard. Then trying a lot of twist variations they got really good...more revealing, extended, balanced, faster/more dynamic, and still smooth. The bananas were another good choice, and the Mad Scientist, sort of advanced "ferrite" like things, with more day to day exploration, things got even better.

It took several weeks I suppose, but then I just got happy with them, very happy. I occasionally play around with a couple Madscientist things....take them off, use different sizes or combinations...put them on different parts of the cables... Right now there is a small cupcake on each negative out at the amp, and a sample he sent...I think "magic tube," something like that (glass tube with some special powder mix in it) on the negative end at the speakers.

All that said, sounds like you just aced it! Way to go.

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by dank on 04/19/17 at 21:36:32

Bi-wire, one set for the woofer and one set for the tweeter, should cause no problems as far as the amplifier is concerned. The idea of bi-wire is to keep the higher currents developed when driving the woofer (typically 10 times what the tweeter needs) out of the cable that drives the tweeter. From your other posts so far, it sounds like there might be something to that idea.

Dan

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by maddog07 on 04/19/17 at 22:58:56

copper foil has been the "end all" of speaker cable for me, for about 10 years now....
I have some solid silver foil too... it is slightly more resolute... but it's significantly higher cost .vs. copper foil is not commensurate with the difference in sound which is relatively small.

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by will on 04/19/17 at 23:10:03

Good point Dank. But also, if I recall, Seeker's silver cables are 8 gauge...Is that right SS? If so, being silver, that is a lot of conductor.

Would be an interesting test comparison with the by-wiring as-is one listen, and another listen running both the copper and silver wires straight to the posts the silver used to run singly too, and the jumpers back in place...

Title: Re: using two sets of speaker wires from one output
Post by SonicSeeker on 04/20/17 at 03:48:54

Dan that must be what is giving me an even better detailed and smoother presentation with a better soundstage and depth.
I listened to a few albums that I am intimately familiar with and I have never heard them sound better, and as detailed and reveling as my system already was I actually heard things I had never heard before hidden in the background very nice surprise, sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.
Yes 8 gauge