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EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> ZTPRE >> NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1427302380

Message started by maddog07 on 03/25/15 at 17:52:59

Title: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 03/25/15 at 17:52:59

3/17/2016 - The ZTPRE is now online and we are taking orders. The page is however not yet public. People on our customer appreciation list have been notified and now the forum. The introductory price is only planned to last through the fist 25 units, so we wanted to give the greater Decware family first dibs at it. So far I think we have 8 units sold. We'll wait another week for any interested forum visitors to place an order then we'll officially add it to the web site's product menu.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZTPRE.html

Steve

NOW BACK TO ONE YEAR AGO WHEN THIS THREAD STARTED...

OK Master Deckert....

you've now mentioned a couple of times in a thread or two here, that you're working on a new preamp - targeted completion date of this fall. Throw us dogs a bone or two here...... pretty please! Features, layout, inputs... what's the theory/objective driving you on this piece? We like to be teased....!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 03/30/15 at 21:36:19

Master Steve.... where are you?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 03/30/15 at 21:44:16

I suppose he will reply to reply #188 when he is ready maddog?!
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1408725911/180#180

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lonely Raven on 03/30/15 at 22:56:19

I'll see what I can get out of him whenever my ZMA is ready for pickup. I tried calling today and wound up just leaving a message saying "call me if you need anything from me".

Him being busy is good - that either means he's making money, which means more funding for R&D, or he's busy doing said R&D. LOL

It all comes when the audio gods wish it though. I've seen and felt that myself - most of my audiophile journey has been little nudges (or sometimes big kick in the pants) from the audio gods. Hell, even my job takes me down to Peoria now - which brought me back into the fold and got me into the MG944 and ZMA - friggen 15 years(!) after getting my little Zen amp from Steve.

So while the Torii V was unplugged - we just need to wait for things to fall into place for the other pet projects. ;)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by ProggRob on 04/01/15 at 15:41:23

Well I sent him an email and got an automatic reply that he was out until April 6. Is he on vacation or immersing himself in a project?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 04/10/15 at 00:57:27

Sorry, I just saw this post...

The preamp is going to be a balanced circuit using two CSP3 circuits, one for the push and one for the pull. So that's 3 dual triode tubes per channel. This way the signature of the preamp maintains the tried and true sonic merits of a CSP3. Think of it as a CSP3 on steroids.

There will likely be an option for wireless remote control of the volume.

It will look better than any line level product we've ever made and fit into the shelves of any audio rack.

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by 4krow on 04/10/15 at 03:38:32

Oh great, something more to lust after. I may need to up my group therapy by one or two more days a week.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Stefan on 04/10/15 at 05:28:23

That sounds like an amazing piece, looking forward hearing and seeing it!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lonely Raven on 04/10/15 at 16:59:43

Steve told me he's spending 100 hours alone on the CAD design of the Chassis. So it sounds like he's very serious about making this the best it could possibly be.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 04/10/15 at 21:25:51

This sounds like it going to be something special and I can't wait to see the outcome.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 04/14/15 at 22:38:47

I've got "wood" already.... this is exactly the kind of peamp I was hoping Steve would create.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 04/15/15 at 06:37:03

With remote I'm in. UPS will be bringing to my door.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 04/20/15 at 19:45:58

Steve, please tell me it is going to have a remote for volume? I know it comes at a cost. I'm willing to pay that cost; especially knowing you will design it-not to impede on the sonic's. You mentioned it might be an option.

Any chance we can get a glimpse/CAD view pic maybe or better?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Syd on 04/20/15 at 20:44:37

Still getting some newish albums into my comfort zone.
Great buy this double.
DMM cut by VP

I`ve put my Foton 6P3S-E power tubes in and Mark was right, they sound pretty good, very good, out of the box. And I had visions of another marathon burn in. tch tch

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 04/20/15 at 22:37:26

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I'm piecing together it seems as if there are going to be:

4 line level inputs

With a portion of those inputs being truly balanced

Remote for volume

Inside the best looking and made chassis that Decware has ever made

Decware Value, Build Quality and Warranty

If these specs can hold to final production this thing's going to kick some serious ass! I think I can hear another Tone Audio award coming. 8-)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 04/21/15 at 04:48:09

I like your thinking Beowulf.

I have solved my dilemma. I will purchase them all in order of release.
SE84CKCS UFO MOD w/Jupiter Caps
Torii Junior
New Preamplifier
6C33C Mono's
.....then the ZP3 an update my Cartridge

Just kidding! However, I want the new Pre this fall.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 04/23/15 at 20:02:35

Steve shared some CAD drawings of the new preamp amp with me... I'm surprised he hasn't posted them here. It is very cool and very unique looking... a departure from the typical Decware vintage look. Remote volume is in the design as I understand it.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lonely Raven on 04/23/15 at 21:25:25

Yeah, remote volume will be an (I'm assuming expensive) option.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 04/23/15 at 22:00:37

he didn't say.... kind of sounded like remote volume would be std.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 04/23/15 at 22:16:36

@ maddog07 - he just sent them to you via email? Sounds cool, hopefully he'll post them here as well! 8-)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 04/23/15 at 23:07:51

yes... I responded to one of the mass emailings decware sent out a week or so ago and in my response I ask for some teasers on the preamp... Steve then replied with some prototype cad/cam case work pics....

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by kana813 on 04/24/15 at 18:51:24

If you can't wait for Steve's new preamp, this looks like the real deal:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/luxman-classic-cl-38u-preamplifier

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Syd on 04/24/15 at 20:51:25

It`s gonna look mighty impressive if it`s the size of an SE34
I wonder if it will have dedicated inputs....phono, cd, aux, etc.
I`ve plugged things into these inputs and they never seem to make a difference if you get them the wrong way round but guess there must be subtle differences in input circuitry. Perhaps a boost for phono ?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by lLance on 04/25/15 at 15:05:56

OK, my obsessive compulsive nature tells me I have to have one of these. How much $ do I need for the fall? I going to start saving my money now.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 04/25/15 at 16:31:50

kana, I'll wait for Steve's (pics please), no circuit boards and adjustable voltage output is a must have.

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport ****(DVP-NS57P)****
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for input tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 in A12 an B12 inputs)
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable (rotated in)
Acoustic Zen Adagio (Modified)
~~OR~~
Vintage Polk SDA1 Speakers in Stereo (Modified)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/118, 119 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

*****Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-on Tweets/4.5 cross
(Gutted: 3rd order Linkwitz R's....with all crappy parts = gone).

Title: Re: CSP3 as a Pre-amp
Post by stoutblock on 04/25/15 at 20:31:19

If this new preamp beats out the CSP3 then it's going to have to be mighty fine! The CSP3 is a giant killer in my book. I hope Steve does not deviate much from the classic Decware look? If it is simply a couple of CSP3 circuits with a common power supply it should be nothing but goodness...

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 04/28/15 at 04:43:46

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Stefan on 04/28/15 at 05:20:36

Sweet! I want one! :)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Core32 on 04/28/15 at 12:01:45

Ok. I'll have to say, THAT's interestingly different.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by deucekazoo on 04/28/15 at 13:51:34

Nice, I like it. I think it should be called the Decware Stealth pre amp.
It has the Stealth bomber look.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lon on 04/28/15 at 13:52:43

Looks like a fine preamp, a fitting companion to the ZMA and the flagship Monos!

If my ship comes in looks as if this and a ZMA would be a great heartbeat for a system, and it also looks as if a treble cut circuit could be added. ;) But my ship is not due for some time. And by then Steve will have several new components to tempt!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by kana813 on 04/28/15 at 20:35:14

Wow, a Decware preamp with a faceplate and balanced ins and outs!

Will it have a remote control?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lonely Raven on 04/28/15 at 20:55:35

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

I believe the remote is only for the volume though.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/01/15 at 13:53:25

I like it! Deuce, I like your suggestion. The Stealth! Walk softly, but carry a big stick.

Ordered the day it becomes available. Looks like some fine capabilities an with remote volume, Decware transparency/musicality + adjustable voltage output = no brainer!

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita/National PCC88/7DJ8.....in A12 an B12 Input Tube positions)
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable

***Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/118, 119 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

***Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-on Tweets/4.5 cross

Mr. Lee's superior custom - w/less distortion under-hung neodymium shielded woofer's designed to his specifications in Germany & his in-house designed and made tweeter's.....78lb's each and at 48 inches tall.....can cause a Quake in the Room through these Transmission Lines when desired. Bass: deep - tight & musical at any Volume level with tonal balance.
(Gutted: 3rd order Linkwitz/Riley's....with all crappy parts = gone).

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/01/15 at 14:35:47

I like the "cut" looks in it. Mondial Design's Solid State Aragon Amps have it. Steve is taking it one step further, with Tube beauty, accessibility for Tube rolling and viewing the beauty of the Fire Bottles. Very nice indeed.

I still have a sweet spot for Herron Audio's Preamplifier though and still might end up owning it to accompany my ZMA. I have heard this Pre, or I should say.....you can't hear this Pre....is more like it.

http://www.herronaudio.com/vtsp3specs.html

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue58/herron.htm

What I need to play around with more on the Herron is the:
"Many line stages have fixed amounts of gain that may make 80% of the volume-control range unusable, with gradations too coarse to find the single right volume setting for the listener. The Herron VTSP-3A employs both high gain (12dB) and low gain (6dB), selectable via the front panel (the manual covers how). I found that 6dB was plenty, enabling very fine increments of volume control that made dialing in my listening sessions a pure joy".
http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=188:herron-audio-vtsp-3a-preamplifier&catid=37:full-length-reviews&Itemid=2

Obviously similar (to the Ears), I like Steve's adjustable voltage output.

However, Steve will match it with the new Pre coming.....because I know how good the CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps is...and I own. I also hope to better afford Steve's. I have no problem sending my ZMA in for the Balanced Inputs. I should have had it done when he made it. Drats-my bad.

Then again, I should have my head examined? I would have to get two pair of XLR IC's, when I already have great unbalanced IC's running out of Steve's truly amazing output trannies-from my ZDSD, then out of the CSP3! Of course, my goal is to have a few more Inputs for Sources and Remote Volume by moving from the CSP3.

Hey, I've lost 26 pounds over the last 9 weeks and I'm running again. I can get up out of my Listening Chair for Volume adjustment as I have been doing! ;D

To be revisited in the Fall. Herron or Decware .....Herron or Decware....Herron or Decware.....good problem to have!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/02/15 at 15:46:07

I want Steve's Pre.

However, doing XLR/RCA connectors, would introduce noise, right?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CRFXLFRC

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CRFRCMXL

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lon on 05/02/15 at 18:36:27

I've used one of those for a digital connection and. . .no, not as far as I can tell.

What would you be using one for? Does your ZMA only have RCA connections?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Syd on 05/02/15 at 18:53:51

The new pre amp outside schematics show balanced in/outs hence an xlr/rca converter for those who dont use xlr`s anywhere.
The xlr`s might just be an option though.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by ProggRob on 05/02/15 at 20:42:55

Do I see attenuation knobs for each source on the back panel?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 05/03/15 at 01:39:01

Machined in Chicago IL, USA.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 05/03/15 at 01:41:38

Front Transparent View

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Donnie on 05/03/15 at 03:23:47

The red faceplate sure is purdy.
Why no counterbored holes on the plates so the screw heads don't stick out?
Oops, I blew the photo up and see the counterbores.
I'll shut up now.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/03/15 at 15:44:22

I have no problem with getting the RCA/XLR connectors if the Pre is only configured in XLR in an out. Then, I don't have to send my ZMA in for Balanced Inputs.

Beautiful looking Steve and I see the IR hole!

$3192.00 worth of my Audio that was sitting = SOLD. $2100.00 to go!

New Pre done deal. Now, can I swing the new Mono's too?! Ah, yeah, I think I will. I'm not growing younger.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 05/04/15 at 01:46:45

Wow, Steve wasn't joking about the build and look of this preamp! It's definitely the nicest looking piece of Decware gear that I've seen yet! Simple, subtle and elegant ... the faceplate looks orange (???) on my monitor ... (if so I dig the orange) and can imagine it sitting next to a walnut pair of 63CC3 SET mono blocks ... can you say dream system? 8-)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 06/17/15 at 17:29:10

~Bump~

I'm sure Steve will tell us more in due time. I know he is working on the Torii JR..

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by darrwood on 07/26/15 at 04:49:42

It does look nice, but very much out of my price range. I'm going to have to replace my dynaco sca35 It has to be worked on so often, plus Decware stuff is so much better engineered. I will have to pick an amp without a preamp. which unless you have ideas, Anyone?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 08/12/15 at 18:35:03

Zenmaster SteveD....

got any bones to throw us on the preamp? any progress or news?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 08/15/15 at 19:42:30

Oh yeah maddog, I want some more info from the Zenmaster. You can never have enough Decware.

Master volume with remote control, headphone jack & voltage output adjustment...........voltage input adjust too...it looks like? cool

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 08/17/15 at 06:32:49

Waiting for the first order of chassis to arrive now. ;)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lon on 08/17/15 at 15:04:35

Going to be a fantastic preamp.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 08/20/15 at 17:12:01

I have heard some wonderful AVC(autoformer volume control) and TVC(transformer volume control) "passive" preamps. Though the transformers can typically provide some small amount of gain 5-7db or so.

Given our Zenmaster's recent 'interest" in all things "transformer related".... I wonder if he has given any thought to using transformer volume control in the new preamp? I definitely want "tubes" and an active circuit, so my sources are buffered and see high input impedances and the preamp to have low output impedance and able to drive any cable a reasonably long distance, etc. .... but given how autoformers and transformers have been shown to have such high performance as volume controls in passive preamps, I'm wondering if a tube based active preamp with volume control via transformers/autoformers might just be the end-all of all preamps....

anybody got any experience to share with transformer volume controls, like the autoformer Slagleformers from Bent Audio, etc.

Zenmaster Steve... comments - thoughts?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 08/20/15 at 23:54:26

maddog07 wrote on 08/20/15 at 17:12:01:

I can't remember where I read it, but I believe that Vinnie Rossi's new line is using either Slagelformer or Bent type tech in the LIO.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 08/21/15 at 14:05:34

This is going to be interesting guys. .....can't wait to know more about it.

I'm so pleased with my CSP3. Both my Decware ZDSD and Auralic Vega, use different settings (vol. & voltage output) with my CSP3 driving my ZMA to perfection. I can't imagine being without my CSP3. It is a must for unbalanced.
I have my Zbit or balanced Input at ZMA....~but~ through active/CSP3/RCA, for transparently fleshing out weight/detail/nuance vs. passive Zbit, etc.... . Plus, with Ediswan's in my Input Stage of my ZMA...you get chills.

Now, moving to balanced with adapter's through the new Pre? What advantages does the new Pre offer me over my current transparent masterpiece CSP3 from Steve? I will have to wait and read......... .

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

~AURALiC Vega D/A processor~
1.5 MHz PCM....in Filter Mode 4 with FEMTO EXACT Clock in from Transport. She's a keeper!
Sometimes I use Filter Mode 1.....for flatter extended Treble.

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)
(.....will be sometimes rotated in~great machine)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***

Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, Auralic Vega or ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 09/10/15 at 19:53:39

I wonder what kind of tubes the preamp will utilize?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 09/10/15 at 20:03:00

Okay, I want for one more!

Good question maddog, what tubes?

Now, that I've settled in with my ZDSD and System. I'm back in the business of wanting a Remote for Analog Volume Control with the new PRE. However, the new Pre sure looks all XLR in and out? I want to continue using Steve's RCA Output from my ZDSD.....so, I want Two Unbalanced Inputs and One Out.

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/176.4)
{ also @ -16 Ref Level & -1.0 Input volume Level}
{ also @ -18 Ref Level & -1.0 Input Volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment used at 0 to 40%
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***
ZMA used as straight Power Amp, at 90% of Volume

********************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable~great deal/used!
********************************************
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

REL T5 SUB, Neutrik connection from ZMA
{30Hz @ 35% of volume~0 Phase}
Auralex Subdude II

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by vyokyong on 09/11/15 at 07:01:35

Hi,

Now I am using Coincident Statement Line Stage pre-amp. It is Transformer Volume Control (TVC) with 101D DHT tube to provide 13 or 23 dB gain (you can select which gain when order).

Before this CSLS pre-amp, I used Light Speed Attenuator passive pre-amp. It is a light variable resistor volume control. Or resistant value of volume resistor is varied depend on light density shines on resistor. The Light Speed Attenuator passive pre-amp is the most transparency pre-amp I have ever used or listen. It keeps all subtle low level signal sound very well or minimize loss. However as my system need more gain to drive ZMA.

Then I order CSLS pre-amp to try. It provides totally different in punch, bass authority, macro and micro dynamics much much better than Light Speed Attenuator passive pre-amp. The system plays like SS amp now, not like tube amp for punch and authority bass. But all subtle low level signal sound has significant big loss also or significant negative transparency compared to Light Speed Attenuator passive pre-amp. Then it is a trade off between authority bass and dynamics and transparency. However I will select authority bass and dynamics rather than transparency in case of CSLS versus LSA.

However when I open CSLS pre-amp to check signal cable wire and found out that it is a very small normal copper cable. I think that loss in subtle low level detail sound may be caused by this poor signal cable wire inside CSLS. Then I plan to mod CSLS by changing RCA female jack to be WBT pure silver Next Gent female jack and Duelund Hook up wire 2 (pure silver ribbon wire with silk wax) for signal cable wire inside CSLS.

I hope that all subtle low level detail sound will be gained back as same as Light Speed Attentuator passive pre-amp. Then the mod CSLS pre-amp will be one of the best pre-amp which has both Solid State punch and authority bass with all subtle low level detail sound or superb excellent transparency.

I will report back of my mod CSLS pre-amp.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by vyokyong on 09/11/15 at 08:54:57

If I knew that Steve will launch new Pre-Amp before I ordered CSLS preamp. I would be waiting for Decware new pre-amp. Because I love Decware products and I trust in Steve's product.

Now I am very happy with ZMA.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 09/11/15 at 18:02:03

I love the CSP3 with Jupiter Caps, for the slam and authority/density. However, you might want to try Steve's CSP3 or new PRE. I find, on most recordings I'm giving up nothing in transparency.

Here is why:
First off, Steve's design + with the high voltage output. I use the Input Tube/both sides at 10 of 10 voltage (as all should). The Output Tubes are the major key though! Set at 8 of 10 max, driving my ZMA set at just off full volume as a direct power Amp....is providing the best of both worlds (read: Preamp/CSP3 is out of the way/transparent with this Voltage drive out/without being bright or hyped or brittle or any loss of whet density-still preserving micro detail).

So, I'm running some pretty serious Voltage out to the ZMA! Steve, what am I running at the 8 out of 10 output, exactly? I could read the Copy in the notes on the CSP3....but I would like an exact number from you.

Furthermore, the high Output of the ZDSD and the fact the I can dial down the Input Voltage with the ZDSD/DAC, that it see's from my Transport is very key too. By lowering this, it allows me to use the steroid Output I'm putting out of the CSP3 as stated. I cannot state this enough... .

I have Kimber KS6063 Speaker Cables coming vyokyong! I got them for 52% off. I also, have the Shunyata Ztron Alpha Digital power cord, coming for my ZDSD. I will experiment with it, on and off my P3 Power Plant.

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Ztron Alpha Digital power cord....coming for ZDSD!
Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/176.4)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -1.0 Input volume Level}
{ also @ -18 Ref Level & -1.0 Input volume Level}
{ also @ -16 Ref Level & -1.0 Input Volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
**********************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment used at 0 to 40%
**********************************************
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***
ZMA used as straight Power Amp, at 90% of Volume

********************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable~great deal/used!
********************************************
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

REL T5 SUB, Neutrik connection from ZMA
{30Hz @ 35% of volume~0 Phase}
Auralex Subdude II

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 09/11/15 at 18:34:52

http://audioshark.org/shunyata-research-78/review-shunyata-zytron-alpha-digital-power-cord-2914.html

From this account and others; plus my experience finding the right Power Cords for my CSP3 and ZMA.....and as good as the ZDSD is running out of my P3. I might be in for a little treat with the Ztron Alpha into the the ZDSD, on and off the P3 regen.

First, the addition of my 6063's next week then the Alpha in 2 or 3 weeks arrival.............. .

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 09/13/15 at 16:41:29

You might scoff vyokyong, when I'm suggesting you sell your Coincident Statement Line Stage pre-amp (Active) and get the CSP3 or new PRE.

You know I love the High-End that matters. Evidence of that being my Cables, Speakers and Power Supply. I would own the Audio Researches of the World.....but the ZDSD/CSP3/ZMA kicks there asses! I can't say enough about voltage output.........(and input/ZDSD).

I so have the German Mundorf Mcap Supremes burned in for Mr. Lee's Tweeter's and German made Woofers. The Transmission Line of the Adagio is incredible too.

I hope you have good luck with the Stealth Audio IC. I know you won't be getting it from Hong Kong for a couple of months yet. Great IC, just a bit much in my System. I'm a Kimber Select ear/brain guy.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by vyokyong on 09/14/15 at 06:14:08

Hi Stone of Tone,

Thanks for your advice.

I will do my best of what I have before sell it. Good thing of Coincident Statement Line stage pre-amp is that it provides 2 RCA out put for sub-woofer or Bi-amp. I already have Martin Logan Depth sub-woofer 1 unit. When I got Avalon Eidolon Diamond spealers, I have not played it with subwoofer. I want to familiar with Avalon Eidolon Diamond sound signature first of two month playing. And I think that sub-woofer should not be necessary. Because it states in Avalon Eidolon speaker manual that any sub-woofer is added to Avalon Eidolon speakers will give negative effects more than any positive gain. So that it is not advised to add sub-woofer.

Yesterday I tried new set up by adding Martin Logan Depth sub-woofer to my Hi Fi system. the result is OMG! It provides body and weight which is essential for orchestra music. The dynamic is incredible! Micro-contrast and macro-contrast is superb. All types of music songs is much more real Live show and involving. It is strange that it provides more black background and more focus in 3D imaging. All music instruments and singer have more space around them, separately from each others. It is contrast of my old believe that adding subwoofer will have negative in transparency and clarity. Now it is not true.

From my set up, Avalon Eidolon Diamond speakers needs subwoofer to perform that lower 24 Hz to 20 Hz in order to be perfect 20Hz - 20Mhz. The adding of little frequency 20 Hz to 24 Hz makes huge improvement in sound quality. (Avalon Eidolon Diamond speaker spec is 24 Hz to 20 MHz.)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 09/14/15 at 19:11:39

I am very pleased with my REL T5 Sub. Perfect for my Listening Room. Yes, you don't think you need one~until you get one! I do have RCA Sub output from my CSP3, I could use. However, the Neutrik connection is the preferred method for REL. I've never got a Sub to integrate this easy or well....as I have done with my REL T5.

Excited, I have my Kimber Select KS6063 8ft pair with WBT-0681Ag Spades arriving on Wednesday!

Enjoy!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 10/06/15 at 02:42:25

The new Decware preamp was a pre-production "case work" only prototype on display at the fest.....
Steve says he expects to be listening to the working prototype by Christmas if everything goes as planned. Sign me up...!!!!

I believe the preamp will have multiple outputs possibly. Perhaps a set of balanced outputs and a pair of single ended outputs, or maybe two balanced outputs.

There is another way to run a sub vyokyong.... and I have found it to be the best way also, to my ears.. drive the sub from your amp that powers your mains to the high-level inputs of the sub. Yes... not all subs have high-level(binding posts) inputs, but there is a way to run subs that do not have high-level inputs. You can buy simple in-line adapters that step the voltage down.
If you drive your sub from the same amp that powers your mains, the bass reproduced by the sub, will take on the same tonal characteristics as the sound being produced by your main amp. I have found subs to gel/blend/disappear much better and much easier when driven this way. I've had many brands of subs... including the ML you mention vyokyong, and I preferred them all driven by my main amp via the subs high-level/speaker-level inputs. Give it a try...

also... the Hawthorne Audio Augie open baffle bass driver is freaking phenomenal. I've never had better bass and quantity is not an issue. I prefer the Augie over my twin pair of Velodyne digital drive 12 inchers for the man-cave dedicated 2-ch music system. The Velo's are in the HT permanently now.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by vyokyong on 10/06/15 at 04:02:22

Thanks Maddog 07.

Yes, I have read that the best way to connect sub to main speakers is through amp and high level binding posts. However I use only one sub. It is more convenient for me to connect from Pre-amp through left and right channel interconnect cables to sub. Or is it better to connect sub from one main speaker only?
please advice.

Thanks.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Fireblade on 10/06/15 at 13:19:36

FWIW, I've used the pre-outs from my Mini Torii to feed my Velodyne Sub for years, with good results. However, I recently wanted to try the high-level binding post setup and have not looked back since: Much better tone and blending, and in my case, much less incidence of a boomy effect when bass volume is too high. This setup also works fine with my other SET amp. Just my $0.02

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 10/06/15 at 23:21:01

10-Roger that Fireblade... I discovered years ago that the high-level inputs on subs fed from my main amp sound better than the line-level inputs. Better blending with main speakers, sub disappears better, blah, blah, blah - "better". I never mess with line-level inputs in the man-cave 2-ch music system anymore.
However, for the HT, line-level is necessary in most cases for the HFE .1 channel outputs of the pre-pro.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 10/07/15 at 20:35:07

Decware PRE baby...........coming in the House, after my Jr.!

Right now though, no hurry, I'm at Rock Concert levels with Decware Nuance! = Real!

Decware Torii Jr. coming in November!

Decware new PRE, coming in Dec/Jan!

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Ztron Alpha Digital power cord
Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/176.4)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db or -1.0 Input volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
**********************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment used at 0 to 50%
**********************************************
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***
ZMA adjusted at 50% to 90% of Volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 10/07/15 at 22:11:11

Torii Jr. vs. ZMA

New PRE vs. CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps

..........later, much.....will see what wins?! .......or I keep 4 for 4 vs. 2.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Brian on 10/10/15 at 14:15:12

Fireblade said:
Re: New Decware Preamp
I recently wanted to try the high-level binding post setup and have not looked back since: Much better tone and blending.

maddog07 said:
I discovered years ago that the high-level inputs on subs fed from my main amp sound better than the line-level inputs.

Hello Fellas,
By high-level, is it meant speaker level? The speaker cable posts of the main amplifier?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by mark58 on 10/10/15 at 14:32:38

Brian, that is correct. When I purchased my Omega Deep Hemp Sub, I did a bunch of research and the consensus here and elsewhere is that it gets you a better integration by imparting the characteristics of your Amp to the Sub. So if your Sub has the speaker level option...use it. Mark.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Brian on 10/12/15 at 00:12:19

Thank you Mark.
I wonder how this relates to Bi-Amping. If I had a speaker with a 400Hz cross from woofer to mid, and I decided to Bi-Amp, I wonder if the crossover ought to be immediately after the preamp, or after the midrange power amp.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by cpcat on 11/10/15 at 19:58:58

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and have followed this thread with great interest.
This preamp may be my next system upgrade. I'm wondering if one of the balanced inputs can be configured as an HT bypass?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/19/15 at 00:26:30

Hi cpcat,

Welcome to the forum! To answer your question, most likely not. This is going to be a somewhat extreme minimalist design with equally extreme sound quality. Don't worry though, there are always usually more than one way to reach the desired goal. Give me a call sometime and we can see what other ways we can achieve an HT bypass or possibly eliminate the need for one altogether.

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/19/15 at 01:30:59

Status report. I have completed 001, which is my own personal unit. I've been listening to it for about four days. Please don't start asking pricing and details. It's too soon for that just yet. The initial sound quality far exceeded my expectations which were high. Now it's time to get some time on it and see how long it lasts against those expectations. Next step is to then make sure it's not a fluke by duplicating it so I will be building a second one next.

This is what I know so far...

It is the CSP3 circuit doubled up to create a fully balanced circuit. The only substantial difference in the circuit is that instead of the Hybrid AC/DC starved circuit design for the heaters, I chose to create a fully AC high current supply where the heaters of the three tubes per channel are in series. That means we're using an 18 volt heater supply. This is a trick I discovered before Decware on one of my own amps which is to say that something special always seems to happen when heaters are in series.

There are 3 XLR Inputs and 1 XLR Output per channel. The output level is adjustable via stepped attenuation. With 60 volts of potential output I have already found this to be a handy feature. Without getting into specifics, the preamp has taken what I previously labeled as "Animated" to a whole new place I did not frankly know existed, so that's always fun! It's going to be be really good.

The dual mono remote control is working well. Both motorized analog pots rotate at the same rate together because they share the same sensor. If you want to make an adjustment to one channel or the other to achieve a different channel balance, simply adjust one of the controls higher or lower and it will stay that way relative to the other channel as you continue to raise and lower both channels with the remote.

This is of course the best of all worlds, as you have infinitely adjustable volume and channel balance electronically ganged together on a single remote.

On the second unit, where I try to replicate the first and measure the specs to get a feel for how tight this can be made, I will be testing two options that I hope to offer; 1) Making one of the inputs a transformer coupled RCA jack so that non-balanced sources could be used. 2) Adding a transformer-coupled RCA output that can be used to feed non-balanced amplifiers. In this case, the preamp would have both XLR balanced and transformer coupled RCA outputs. Most likely only one will be able to be used at a time but it would make it possible to jump between balanced and non balanced amplifiers with ease.

So I'll report back when the second unit is done and let you know if the results are good. If so, I'll price it out, and start on the web page. IF not, I'll slowly figure out why and then work to make then match. Once done I'll then build a third one to confirm it can be done consistently.

Meanwhile, here is a large picture of it on my bench taken with the phone on the night it was completed. The sepia color pallet is just a teaser. This thing looks so good I want to wait to take the real photos before anyone sees what it really looks like. They will be initially available with either red or black face plates.

Oh, and since the original ZTPRE was a successful purist execution many many years ago, I have named this new preamp after it to take it's place and just like was the logic back then, not everyone in the world will go with a lower power Decware amp, but every system on the planet could use this. [smiley=smiley.gif]

In closing, so far I have only listened to it on my 6c33 13 watt monoblocks paired with Bob's HR-1 speakers. I have never heard the bass go so deep or the speakers hit like this. Never heard them sound this good before. That means that the stunning dynamics of the ZMA and even the more impressive dynamics of the Zen TORII Mono's were not as good. That means when I pair this preamp with either one of those, I'll probably be besides myself with amazement.

I've been listening to these HR-1's for years on everything we've ever built and never heard them sound like this. I expect this result to happen with all the speakers and amps because I think it's the fact that we have 60 volts of pressure to work with. If you thought the 30 volts of a regular CSP3 was a lot... consider that this is making a 13 watt amp hit harder than our 60 watt monoblocks do without it.

Guess you know what I'll be doing this weekend. It will be a nice contrast to last weekend which was pure hell since it took me 3 entire days to figure out why it didn't work right the first time I built it.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by mark58 on 11/19/15 at 01:44:44

Sounds pretty amazing Steve. I'm looking forward to hearing more. Mark.

PS...are the tube choices the same as with the CSP3, only doubled?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/19/15 at 02:08:13

yes

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/19/15 at 05:10:20

Wow! The dual mono remote functionality, one of the inputs transformer coupled RCA and output (you know I love the ZDSD's transformer output), move from 30 volts of my CSP3 to 60! Sign me up.

I want the Red faceplate for my Walnut ZMA.

Let us know how she is hitting it with the ZMA THIS WEEKEND!

Oh WOW! The fun I'm going to have hitting my Adagio's with the Gain Structure's of this masterpiece and ZMA.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Brian on 11/19/15 at 06:55:36

It sure sounds splendid!

Brian

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lon on 11/19/15 at 12:17:17

Should be an interesting preamp! Probably going to be out of the price range I could afford.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/19/15 at 15:42:25

Steve wrote:
"something special always seems to happen when heaters are in series".

The Zen Master at his work....and a "I must hear it".

Knowing it will be "THEEEE" PRE, ....and what it brings to the table for my ZMA to my Adagio's.....like my CSP3 does-I'm parting with a couple more things.

I'm fortunate enough to part with, to purchase the new ZTPRE.

Steve, I look forward to reading more and her Release (realizing the timeline is out a ways for release~building ZTPRE #2 & #3/to match...plus, transformer coupled RCA In & Out).

When the ZTPRE is good to go....I will be too.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/19/15 at 16:08:13

Steve/Question:
you eliminated the tube rectification....so, the solid state diode rectification will be similar to what the ZMA has going on or, way different for the ZTPRE? .....if I recall correctly, the ZMA is not a SSDR?

I dig that it is gone...eliminates "SAG" (compression & voltage drop of pre output tubes).....when driving her hard..... .
Not that this is an issue for my CSP3....I like it/I get a long life out of the Rectifier too....however....I like it gone out of the new ZTPRE.

Oh, but in my reading, you mentioned a fully AC high current supply, instead of AC/to DC..... .

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/19/15 at 17:23:18

Steve/2nd & 3rd questions:
...is the top center knob for input selection/it must be/I don't see another knob for it.
.... -OR- both channels receiving voltage output adjustment simultaneously (3 volts to 60 volts...3 volt increments x 20 clicks = 60 volts)?
...OR, did you keep the individual voltage adjustment for each output channel and input channels on the back?
....we have balance from the front with the awesome dual mono adjustment as you described the settings....by the way....how cool is that? ....I'd say very cool.

As for the the input tube for each channel, are you using both half's of the individual input tube for each channel and these will be set at full voltage input/at say 30 volts/if not adjusting from the back of the ZTPRE (like I keep each half/channel, of my Telefunken input tube at 10 & 10 in my CSP3)?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 11/19/15 at 21:01:21

This is by far the nicest/most high-end looking piece of gear that I have seen from Decware and I'm sure the performance will match.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/19/15 at 23:31:47

Thanks beowulf.

To answer a few more questions, the input selector is on the top, yes. There is an output level control on the rear for each channel. Input trim controls for balanced inputs would be an option making it possible to set the levels the same between all three inputs if needed. The only real use for this might be a studio setting. In home, you simply adjust the volume control a bit if one source is louder than another.

A balanced signal is made up of two channels. The signal on one of the two channels is inverted so that it is out of phase with the other. Here's a pic of what it looks like on the scope:

The top trace could be thought of as the left channel of your CSP3. The bottom trace would then be the right channel. By using both together like this... one inverted, one not, the voltage measured between them is exactly doubled. Also, any noise common to both channels is canceled since one channel is out of phase.

We don't call them channels now, instead we call them a single balanced channel. So you can see that to create a Left and Right pair of balanced channels, we need four unbalanced channels... basically two CSP3 preamps, which is what this is. That said, you should now have a better understanding of how the tubes are wired.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/20/15 at 15:03:05

Cool, look forward to reading how it all fleshes out.

Listening Room:

Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research ZiTron Alpha Digital Power Cord

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db or -1.0 Input volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/Nationals/Matsushita PCC88 for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & (8 or 9) of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment used at 0 to 40%
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 50% to 70% of Volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 11/20/15 at 21:09:06

My dream system will be (a) the new Decware Preamp, (b) the new 6c33c Mono Blocks and (c) a set of custom Omega Single Driver AlNiCo monitors (I'm currently working out the details with Louis at Omega right now).

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/21/15 at 16:11:22

I have my dream System.

However, if things flesh out on the new ZTPRE, the way Steve likes and wants it:

"1) Making one of the inputs a transformer coupled RCA jack so that non-balanced sources could be used. 2) Adding a transformer-coupled RCA output that can be used to feed non-balanced amplifiers. In this case, the preamp would have both XLR balanced and transformer coupled RCA outputs. Most likely only one will be able to be used at a time but it would make it possible to jump between balanced and non balanced amplifiers with ease".

I will be on the build sheet. Yes, I could live without it....cause my CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps is awesome. But why would I want to be without the new ZTPRE? ;) ;) 8-) 8-)

Plus, I will take the new ZTPRE to run fully XLR to a Solid State beast for run of my 1.7i Maggies downstairs. The 1.7i's need to be pounded to be enjoyed = fun. (410 watts per channel-into the 4 ohm Magnepan's)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 11/23/15 at 17:12:19

Hi Steve, hope you spent the weekend with the new ZTPRE, ZMA and the big Mono's. ....running the HR1's, that are similar in efficiency to my modified Adagio's.

What voltage output did you use coming out of new ZTPRE? What volume is the ZMA at? I'm also assuming you're using the ZDSD @ -20 output through your ZDSD RCA output transformers to RCA input and output on the ZTPRE?

Or, are you just running balanced through the whole chain, right now? I guess, I'm hoping you're already experimenting this past weekend, with the in and output RCA trannies for the ZTPRE, adopted from your ZDSD output development unbalanced.

Very relevant as well; I look forward to comparisons vs. the CSP3. Unbalanced ZTPRE in and out trannies vs. unbalanced CSP3 of course. Density and weight comparisons with Pre Tubes "in Series"/ZTPRE clarity/transparency................and potential advantages of the double voltage output, it can be turned up to vs. the CSP3.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 12/07/15 at 18:23:18

Headphone jack/input available? OTL/CSP3 style, 300 to 600 ohm compatible for my Sennheiser HD 600's (300 ohm)?

Listening Room:

Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research ZiTron Alpha Digital Power Cord

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db or -1.0 Input volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~Russian 6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 9 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 0 to 40%
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 50% to 70% of Volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 12/11/15 at 13:59:26

Hi Steve, realizing Headphone access would drive up the cost.....not needed/if not an option. I can keep my CSP3 for my Phones.

Not to be pushy or anything? Any one thing to report? :D

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 12/31/15 at 18:38:47

Happy New Year Steve - have you been listening to the new pre prototype over the holidays?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Core32 on 01/01/16 at 23:34:40

Seems news and updates on this one went a bit silent.
Can't believe Steve actually took it easy for the holidays!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/02/16 at 06:05:09

I've been listening to the first unit since October. The second one is under construction. I lost some time this year over the holidays replacing the stairs to our finished basement. The stair treads were all splitting and have been a hazard for years. Naturally before it was finished, the treads, risers, skirt boards, and modifications to the stringers became involved which lead to finishing which lead to mistakes which lead to air brush and well I'm sure you get the idea. As for the preamp so far I am still very pleased with what I am hearing. After 2 months of listening I decided to lower the heater voltage with some series resistors between each tube since it was running on the high side and rather than fix it right away I wanted to listen to it for awhile. As expected it was a good move... another layer of liquidity presented itself as a result. Other than that I can't imagine changing anything.

This second unit will have one of the three inputs configured for a single ended source with an RCA jack. It will feed a balanced transformer allowing single ended sources like the ZP3 and others to be used without changing the balanced nature of the preamp. In other words, when you hook the ZP3 or any other single ended source to it, that source becomes transformer balanced. So this unit will have three inputs, one that is RCA and two that are XLR balanced. The RCA jack will float so that there is no ground path between the single ended source and the input of the ZPTRE.

I'm anxious to get this done, as it will be my personal unit, and I will be using my ZTPRE with it regularly :)

I'll post some more pics as I get this second one done.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/04/16 at 02:00:05

teaser page while I finish the black one ;) can be found here: https://www.decware.com/newsite/comingsoon.html

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Brian on 01/04/16 at 22:35:43

Hello Steve,
On the "Coming Soon" page, under the last picture of the amp, it says: Single Ended Triode. I was thinking this amp is shunt resistor push-pull. Do I have it wrong?

It seems to be a great amp. I would love to hear one.
Brian

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/05/16 at 01:28:58

Hi Brian,

It is an SET stage driving a SRPP stage. Series Regulated Push Pull aka Single-ended Reflexive push pull aka SEPP, Totem Pole, Mu Follower. Runs in hard class A.

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by darrwood on 01/05/16 at 03:29:01

Steve That looks pretty cool almost like a V6! It makes me wonder if there might be a power amp in that format some day might have to use shorter tubes. I love my plate amps though, probably easier to disperse heat. The pre does look nice!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/05/16 at 13:56:45

Balanced output only?

You mentioned, working on single ended out as well in previous post.

Great having one single ended input for my ZDSD and its output stage, I want to continue using.

However, I need RCA out of the new ZTPRE, to run into my ZMA/unbalanced. I guess that could take away from the purpose of the new Pre balanced output to an Amps balanced input.

But, ....and a BIG BUT, can you give me what you did with the RCA single ended out Tranny's of the ZDSD....in the new ZTPRE?

I suppose I could send my ZMA to you for XLR Inputs/install....... . This would mean, I need to get a pair of Kimber Select XLR cables too...... . I will be sticking with a full Loom of Kimber Select.....their is nothing like it with Decware.

Listening Room:

Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db Input volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 50% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

***************************************************************************
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
All four pieces of Gear running from an: ADCOM ACE - 515 AC enhancer

~OR~

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/05/16 at 15:37:11

The ZTPRE will have the option of having one possibly two single ended RCA inputs for use with unbalanced sources.

For use with unbalanced amps, a ZBIT will be recommended.

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/05/16 at 16:33:37

No ZBIT for me.

I could send in my ZMA as I mentioned for XLR Input's....+ get XLR Kimber for Pre to ZMA....... .

Nope, I'm out.

"I bid you adieu!" .....and good luck. Its been a fun ride.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lonely Raven on 01/05/16 at 16:36:47

Looks like I may have to come by for a visit soon, huh Steve?

Keep a Monday Night open for me (since I can't do Tuesday's anymore - I have to drive 150 miles to let the dog out!)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by lLance on 01/05/16 at 22:01:38

Lucky for me I already have balanced inputs on my ZMA, so count me in. I want one.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lon on 01/05/16 at 22:28:21

Looks like a great preamp. Would be inconvenient for me too as I am not set up for balanced input and output and as the interconnects that work for me are expensive, I'm not about to get a ZBit and new interconnects, etc.

The CSP2+ works really well for me for my ZP3 and universal player, and running my DirectStream straight into my Torii gives me sound I never dreamed I'd have, so I'm standing pat. But this would be a great link between ZDSD and ZMA so see why it's developed and predict it will be a stunner in the sound quality department.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/07/16 at 16:14:25

I came back to my senses! My P3 Powerplant and Shunyata Alpha digital powercord are back in the System. Nice experiment without...but glad I'm done with that and they are both back in.

No further ventures down the rabbit hole for me. I'm done splitting HARE'S (get it). ;D ;D I don't need all the connectivity of the new Pre. Plus, the expense of an Kimber Select XLR IC and sending my ZMA to Steve, for Balanced Input upgrade.

The cost of the new Pre, ZMA Balanced upgrade and IC ($4 to $6000.00), buys a whole lot of NOS Tubes and Music!

I just put my Cryo'ed Pair of NOS Platinum Ediswans back in my CSP3 Outputs (I've been A-B-A'in), running into a Pair of Edi's for Inputs of my ZMA = Magic Heaven!

Listening Room:

Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db Input volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 50% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at 52 mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running out into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/08/16 at 16:03:15

My macro point above is: The CSP3 with JUP' Caps, Steve's topology, NOS Tubes and great Cables do it so well/I'm set in my Listening Room.

However, we/I know how good this new ZTPRE is going to be. In a couple years, I hope to have it in my downstairs Rig, running from Source, to ZTPRE and Solid State Amplifier.....all BALANCED. My mighty Polk SRS SDA 1.2's deserve it!

Yeah, I'm going down a new rabbit hole in the Spring. It should be fun because I have a Ref Decware System upstairs to compare it to. I will be over-hauling the X-over's in my 1.2's.
http://vr3mods.com/LCSDAUpgrade.php

SKOL Vikings! Sunday's playoff game, could rank in the top 10 coldest!

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 01/08/16 at 21:49:05

I thought I read in some preliminary notes from Steve on the new pre, that he was considering offering it with balanced and single-ended outputs, but something about they couldn't both be used at the same time. Anybody else remembering this?

In my current configuration, I use single-ended outputs from my preamp to my Torii and a balanced output from the same preamp to my sub amp. I need both balanced & single-ended outputs on a preamp, and the ability to use both at the same time.

I don't know "how" or "if" (or if it would be recommended by the Zenmaster and/or performance degrading) it will be possible to use the balanced outputs of this preamp to drive the single-ended inputs of an amplifier.
I have simply shorted pins 3 and 1 together of the XLR on one end of an IC and then connect the wire on pin 2 of the XLR to the center pin of the RCA, and the other conductor in the IC between the joined pin 1/pin 3 pair of the XLR to the ground/barrel of the RCA. I've done this numerous times over the last few decades - never had an "electrical" problem. Did it cause a sonic degradation - who knows?
Cardas and some others, even offer xlr-to-rca adapters.....

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/11/16 at 17:31:21

Yes, I modified a pair of XLR connector's, to run balanced out of my Auralic Vega to my unbalanced CSP3. Like you said, you have been doing it for years maddog.

However, with the new ZTPRE, I would want to go purist on this and send my ZMA to Steve for the XLR Inputs. If I needed to run three Sources (one single ended and two balanced) in my Listening Room...I would send my ZMA in for it.

But.....I'm so pleased with my CSP3 unbalanced/NOS Tubes/Kimber Select.....and I want to put some $ in to the X-overs of my Polk 1.2's downstairs. I'm good.

I just bumped my CSP3 up to 9 of 10 Output (27 volts)....P3 Power Plant to 122 Output/Regenerated for the whole front end. Wahooooooooo!

I put my ZMA Biased back up to 60 mA too ~ much better when running my Ediswan's.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/21/16 at 06:03:04

It is going to kick some serious ass...

I just spent the last hour writing a full length update with pictures. It was great. Then I decided to add one more picture. The computer got an attitude, and I don't take shit from computers. So after trying everything to fix the semi locked up file manager I decided to reboot the machine. Hah! Showed it. Sadly I forgot to post the damn post. Dammit. &(#*$^*%^, whoops did that slip out? I know this has happened to more than one of you on this forum so I feel your pain. ()*#&%(*&^%$(#^$(@*& dag namit.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/21/16 at 06:04:34

It's actually completely consistent with the day I've had today. OK deep breath, lets get a beer and a shot and see what that does.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/21/16 at 06:20:39

OK, Let's see if I can get it back from the hyper-sphere it vanished into.

Another Update!

I have finally completed the second unit and have made it black. The first unit was red. The only difference between these two units is that the black unit has one of it's three inputs converted to a transformer coupled, isolated, RCA input so that the ZTPRE can optionally be used with non-balanced sources.

As you know, a lot rides on the second unit because it tells you if the success of your first unit was a fluke or a repeatable reality. As karma has sometimes a generosity about it, I built this one perfect the first time without having to change or adjust anything. That in and of itself is somewhat rare but nonetheless very nice when it happens. And so far the testing shows the expected result so I would have to say everything is going perfect.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/21/16 at 07:12:51

As you can see, I do learn some things quickly, so I am posting this in multiple parts to cut the father Murphy losses to a minimum. And now that alcohol is involved it only seems wise.

So tonight I am casually testing it here on the bench to get a feel for the success or failure of the unbalanced RCA input options.

From near to far is input 1, the transformer coupled RCA jack, followed by the balanced XLR, followed by the second balanced XLR which is using a shunt RCA to XLR adapter. The last jack is the XLR balanced output. The small knob following that is the output level adjust.

It should be noted that to drive an unbalanced amp, like the SE84UFO that is being used for this test, a ZBIT is used to convert the balanced output from the ZTPRE to a transformer coupled single ended RCA input for the amp. If your primary source is an unbalanced RCA input, then you could use the shunt XLR to RCA adapter to drive your unbalanced amp, so there are options.

Understand that the ZTPRE is two CSP3 circuits used to create a balanced preamp. Using a shunt RCA to XLR adapter on the inputs or a shunt XLR to RCA adapter on the outputs disables one of the two CSP3 circuits, so you may as well use a CSP3 at less than half the cost.

The comparison then becomes prior mentioned approach against using the transformer coupled RCA inputs in place of a shunt RCA to XLR adapter. Then at the same time if you are using a non-balanced amp such as the SE84UFO, you would use our ZBIT which is a single ended RCA unbalanced to XLR balanced transformer hooked between the balanced outputs of the ZTPRE and the non-balanced inputs on the SE84UFO.

The later is the clear winner sound wise, but if it is worth the additional costs will have to be shaken out in the wash.

I have been using my tape machine as the source since it has both single ended and balanced outputs. The single ended are the result of the playback heads being directly wired to a modified ZP3 where the RIAA curve is switched out for either NAB or IEC tape curves. As you may know know the ZP3 phono stage has single ended RCA outputs. The balanced XLR outputs of the tape machine are from it's own solid state electronics. This lets me do ABC comparisons on the three inputs of the ZTPRE.

The results of these comparisons are interesting. I thought I would hate the shunt adapters on either input or output, but they sound great. The transformer coupled RCA input sounds better as expected which is a good thing for people wanting to step up their non-balanced sources to true transformer balanced sources.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/21/16 at 07:30:12

I have also been testing the remote volume controls. I apparently got the angle of the hole for sensor correct as both units have a nearly 180 degree angle of operation with the remotes. (I thought the first one may have been a fluke, but apparently not).

My original plan was to have owners of the ZTPRE simply program one of their own universal remotes to control the volume on the ZTPRE. This way people who hate having too many remotes on the table will not associate the ZTPRE with yet another remote so the control circuits have been designed with that in mind. To make the process painless a functional but cheap remote is supplied that will control the ZTPRE out of the box, and can be used to train your universal remote with little effort.

So see if this is really a good idea, I have ordered several universal learning remotes to see how easy they are to program. If it becomes a hit and miss situation then I will be upgrading the supplied remote to a unit that would make training an existing remote completely optional. I'll know more about that in a few weeks.

Having built two of these so far I am getting an idea how long it takes (me) to build one. Now I will show my guys how to build it and then see how long it takes them so I can see what the labor costs will be. Once that happens I'll know the price of the ZTPRE and you'll see things kick into high gear.

I have more to add but the beer and the shot have decided it will have to wait ;)

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/21/16 at 18:06:03

Very nice Steve.

What I want to do:

Run the Balanced Outputs of my ZDSD
(will it equal your great RCA output transformer's I'm running right now?)

to

Balanced Inputs of ZTPRE

Balanced Outputs of ZTPRE

to

Balanced Inputs on/in Zen Triode Integrated (Rachel) UFO

...you can do balanced inputs on the SE84UFO2....why not the Rachel UFO?

While I'm enjoying Pentodes run in Triode once again with the Rachel and ZTPRE all Balanced....I'll send my ZMA to you for XLR/Jansen Inputs.

Having great all Balanced ZMA/UL and all Balanced Rachel UFO/Pentodes run in Triode again....from you would = bliss/rotating my XLR ZMA with my XLR Rachel UFO.

But then, I should have my head examined. I have great cabling and speakers with your Pre and ZMA. I'm going to stick with 6922 NOS Tube Rolling. .... My System already is Musical Bliss.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/16 at 19:45:43

Hi Stone,

Rachael doesn't have provisions in the chassis for the XLR jacks or the transformers. We recommend the ZBIT to achieve the exact same result but with greater flexibility.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZBIT.html

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/16 at 19:48:38

A shot of the ZTPRE with lights on...

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/16 at 19:49:06

And a shot of the ZTPRE with lights off..

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Donnie on 01/23/16 at 20:47:34

I think if I would get one of these I would make myself a new aluminum face plate and polish it out.
Though a red face plate would go with my Torii. Fickle ain't I?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by stone_of_tone on 01/24/16 at 15:54:11

Steve, yes thanks, the ZBIT is a strong possibility. The ZTPRE is beautiful.

Donnie, yes, I would get the Red Faceplate, to go with my Red Mallory Caps. Your Red Torii is cool, man.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/26/16 at 02:41:54

I have some preliminary pricing on the ZTPRE balanced preamp.

The standard version will start at $1995.00 in either red or black and with either silver or black knobs.
On the other end and with everything you can possibly do to it, it will come in at $4035.00

Steve :)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 01/26/16 at 16:58:52

OK... I've got to ask, surprised somebody else hasn't already, but what "options" can a person add to the new Pre to more than double it's starting price?

I assume an RCA input with a Jensen transformer is an extra cost "option", and
a stepped attenuator (which deletes remote control I assume)

what's the rest of the $2040 in option upgrades?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Lon on 01/26/16 at 17:08:10

My guess is that "standard" the preamp does not include an expensive remote option. . . and that a large part of "fully loaded" cost is the remote option.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/26/16 at 17:38:49

standard model features 1 pair of inputs with regular volume controls.

stepped attenuators $200 option
remote volume controls $500 option
input selector with 3 pair of inputs $500 option
jensen transformer coupled RCA inputs (1 pair) $500 option
updating to beeswax copper foil caps $740 option

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 01/26/16 at 18:26:21

standard model only has one input?

so if I want the following options (which I assume none are mutually exclusive):
$500 - remote
$500 - 3 inputs
$500 - 1 transformer RCA input of the 3 inputs
$740 - Jupiter Beeswax caps
$2240 - total options

$1995 - base price
$4235 - total price (base + options)

am I correct?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by busterfree on 01/27/16 at 03:22:14

Can you tell us about the power supply for this preamp and why no tube rectifiers in this design? Why not a two chassis design? Is it just as quiet or better than a csp3?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by lLance on 01/30/16 at 01:58:36

+1 my CSP3 is very quiet and I would expect as much from a balanced pre

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/02/16 at 03:06:29

Hi Maddog07,

Yes, that's right.

Busterfree,

The ZTPRE used separate toroidal power supplies for each channel's high voltage and two more for each channels heater supplies. The reason quick recovery bridge diodes are chosen was to increase the capacitors from 47uf to 250uf for an even lower noise floor. The combination of toroidal transformers and larger capacitors and superior layout drives the performance well above the CSP3 which is itself nearly flawless.

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/02/16 at 03:09:28

I should also mention that with the balanced preamp, it is impossible to have a ground loop. So basically it is impossible to make this preamp hum unless you feed it hum from your source.

Steve :)

Title: New Decware Preamp model ZTPRE
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/10/16 at 03:59:59

I have updated the ZTPRE page with a picture of the internal layout.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/comingsoon.html

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by busterfree on 02/14/16 at 00:06:58

Will you be offering balanced XLR cables to use with ZTPRE or ZBIT? Or recommend an online offering that is not ridiculously priced?

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/15/16 at 00:28:55

Both of the cable designs we offer for unbalanced use can not be adapted to balanced, so if we do come out with a balanced cable it will have to be something new. Time will tell. Meanwhile, you can find decent sounding balanced XLR cables at bettercables.com for a reasonable price.

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by RW82 on 03/03/16 at 06:35:27

Maddog07, does your sub have high level inputs? I like that alternative to a coaxial since it voices your sub to your regular amp. If they're voiced the same, it doesn't matter as much, but if your amp is tubed, those two will sound different.

High level inputs allow all of the nice things that your normal amp does transfer to your low frequency as well. Then you only need to worry about matching the phase of your soundwaves.

Hope that helps.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by maddog07 on 03/07/16 at 23:55:06

Sorry RW82... I'm just now seeing this. The Decware "notification" hasn't worked for me, for years. Nor can I send an email to Decware - they're server rejects everything from my ISP's domain as spam apparently. Had a discussion with Steve about this, just a couple of weeks ago.

Anyway.... to answer your question. That depends.. I have "subs" with high-level(speaker) and line-level(RCA) inputs. But... I'm not using them with my modified Hawthorne Trio's, which have Audio Nirvana drivers in place of the Hawthorne coaxial driver. The Audio Nirvana's are driven by my Torii. "When" I'm using a preamp(one of four I have at the moment), all my preamps have multiple sets of outputs. I use a set of outputs from the preamp to drive the Torii, and a set to drive an external xover, which is then connected to a Crown XLS-2500 to drive all 4 Augie's.
I also have a DAC with a volume control, that has RCA and XLR outputs as well, so I can drive the Torii directly and either the external xover or the Crown without a preamp in the chain. Of course I've tried this to see how it sounds - a bit different for sure - but better? Who knows - mostly just different. Ultimately I prefer using my tube preamp between sources and my amps/xover. Tube rolling there just adds another degree of tune-ability, which I just can't resist. The tube pre also adds dynamics and drive that I don't get without it. I think this is due to Steve's explanation of how to tune a system's sound by running gain differently. I typically run my Torii's stepped attenuator at about 50% or one click lower. Then I'm running my preamp higher(more voltage) which seems to noticeably liven up the sound. Phase matching hasn't proven to be a problem with this setup. All the components "state" they do not invert phase. But, being a fanatic, I of course had to hook the Augie's and Nirvana's up out of relative phase from each other, just to see what I would hear. There was no doubt "something" was wrong from the first note played - back to wired in same relative phase.

I have experienced, and always in the past like you mention, drove my powered subs via their speaker-level inputs from the speaker binding posts of the amp driving my mid/high driver/s. I had always found this to work/sound the best. Until.........

However... with the OB's I'm listening to these days, I have found that the Augie's blend perfectly with the Audio Nirvana drivers, using the external xover and Crown amp - as good as I've ever heard so far.

I did try a speaker to line-level converter box and drove it with the Torii and then out of the converter to the Crown. There was a detectable difference between this method and the external xover method. However, once again, I found I prefer the preamp to external xover to amp connection method by a notable margin. Not sure why this might be, except that the external xover I use has more "adjustable parameters" that may be allowing me to dial it in better than just running speaker-level inputs off the Torii, thru the step-down converter, to the Crown. I tried using the Crown's built-in xover too. And for whatever reason, I did not like the sound this way as good as when using the external xover. So I run the Crown in full-range stereo mode and do the low-pass ahead of it with the external xover. I have no real explanation for this - just that at this point, after 35+ years of chasing the audio holy grail - I have finally learned to trust my ears and not worry about "theory". If it sounds real, to my ears, then it's good...!!! ;D

If you check in the Pro-sound world a bit, you will find a very common device, called a DI box(direct input box) - sometimes called an active direct box and other various names. These take high-level signals, like from a guitar amp, and reduce them down to a lower level, usually a microphone input on a mixer. There are some really nice ones out there. I even found one that uses Jensen Transformers to create the balanced output signal from the high level input signal. As you know, transformers are Zenmaster Steve's favorite way to balance or unbalance a signal.......

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by RW82 on 03/08/16 at 01:00:16

Haha. Yup! Your setup is way more complicated than I am used to! Sounds like you've got things tuned just like you want them!

I have been working to simplify my system a little bit at a time. I finally took the plunge and boxed up my subwoofer after holding onto it like a security blanket for the past couple of years! It gave a better low-end slam for sure, but it bothered me a bit. I think that was because the phase of my speakers and the sub were just slightly misaligned. Some subs will allow corrections at any angle between 0º and 180º, mine only did one or the other. It seemed to muddy the bass.

Now I am down to just the Torii, a ZStage, and Steve's DM947's. No crossovers, no sub. Simple life. :)

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 03/15/16 at 01:44:21

The ZTPRE is now online and we are taking orders. The page is however not yet public. People on our customer appreciation list have been notified and now the forum. The introductory price is only planned to last through the fist 25 units, so we wanted to give the greater Decware family first dibs at it. So far I think we have 8 units sold. We'll wait another week for any interested forum visitors to place an order then we'll officially add it to the web site's product menu.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZTPRE.html

Steve

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Donnie on 03/15/16 at 02:02:16

Every time I see this preamp in red, it reminds me of a Ferrari Dino V6 engine.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by beowulf on 03/16/16 at 00:17:47

That volume control is super cool! Steve, I think you've really outdid yourself on the design of form vs function and found a perfect balance. Nothing superfluous, simple clean and understated ~ yet elegant IMO.

Couple more questions Steve when you get a chance:

1. So what's the deal with the unbalanced/RCA inputs ... if I wanted to hook up an external unbalanced phono stage (say the ZP3 or something similar), do I need to use a ZSTAGE with it?

2. What happens if you have more than 2 unbalanced sources?

In my case, I have (1) balanced DAC (can be used either balanced/unbalanced), (1) unbalanced Turntable and (1) unbalanced DAC (this 2nd DAC is hooked up to my cable box so I can watch TV in 2.1 channel audio system). FYI, the reason I never bought a CSP3 was the lack of more than 2 inputs and lack of remote.

3. Just out of curiosity ... can it come in any other colored face plates? A wooden face plate that matches the amp bases (Walnut, Cherry, etc.) would look pretty cool too. But really digging the anodized aluminum as well.

Title: Re: New Decware Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 03/19/16 at 02:13:34

Hi Beowulf,

Quote:

1. So what's the deal with the unbalanced/RCA inputs ... if I wanted to hook up an external unbalanced phono stage (say the ZP3 or something similar), do I need to use a ZSTAGE with it?

Yes, it is recommended to use a ZSTAGE with the ZP3 in this case to get the output level up to match your other balanced inputs. I have used it without, but you find yourself having to turn the volume up nearly all the way and if that's all it was I probably wouldn't worry about it, but when I stuck in the ZSTAGE my turntable started kicking some real ass.

Quote:

2. What happens if you have more than 2 unbalanced sources?

If you have more than 1 unbalanced source get a switch box.

Quote:

3. Just out of curiosity ... can it come in any other colored face plates? A wooden face plate that matches the amp bases (Walnut, Cherry, etc.) would look pretty cool too. But really digging the anodized aluminum as well.

Nope, just what you see. Black goes with everything ;)

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 04/04/16 at 04:27:52

The ZTPRE is now online at the following link: https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZTPRE.html

So far I think there are 6 or 8 sold so far, so the introductory price is still in effect. Listening to the ZTPRE driving a ZMA tonight and the sound is pretty amazing. The ZMA is using N.O.S. 807 tubes with adapters and I'm not sure it's ever sounded better.

Steve

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 06/04/16 at 03:05:06

The owner's manual is now available at the following link:

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ztpreowner.pdf

Steve

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by beowulf on 06/09/16 at 00:06:13

Couple things I've been wondering about the ZTPRE:

1. If you get the remote option ~ are the stepped attenuators still available/included?

2. (I've asked something similar, but this is another way I am looking at it). If you have an unbalanced source such as the ZP3 ~ would it be better to get the unbalanced option on the ZTPRE (since you would still need a ZSTAGE with it) or get a ZBIT and keep the ZTPRE all balanced (or does the ZBIT even work that way/direction)?

Thanks!

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by RW82 on 07/28/16 at 07:01:35

Can anyone who's heard one of these report what you think about it? I'm very interested to find out how it sounds!

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 08/06/16 at 02:42:49

Great questions!

If you get the remote option the volume controls are alps carbon composition pots which are infinitely adjustable. Remote control stepped attenuators are not an option on this model.

If you have a ZP3 and wanted to use it with this preamp, you pretty much have to either use an RCA to XLR adapter or set up the preamp with the transformer coupled RCA input. That's basically a backwards ZBIT. Using the RCA input option, the ZTPRE still remains fully balanced. Using the adapter it does not.

Steve

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 08/20/16 at 18:23:42

It's almost time for this year's Decfest, which reminded me of last year when I let everyone see the chassis of a ZTPRE. I didn't have time to assemble one before the fest, so everyone got to look at it.

This year everyone attending (and those listening to the feed) will get to actually hear it :)

Repeat after me: "the ZTPRE is for me, the ZTPRE is for me, the ZTPRE is for me..." [smiley=10.gif]

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Matchstikman on 08/22/16 at 01:25:17

You know, I'd love to get a ZTPRE but everything I have at the moment is unbalanced. I'd have to get adapters of some kind for just about everything. I mean, I could but the ZPTRE and build up everything else around it, right?

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 08/22/16 at 04:10:06

If your sources are unbalanced, the ZTPRE is no different than a CSP3 except in looks and price. If however you have balanced sources with unbalanced amps, then the sonic benefit of using the ZTPRE in conjunction with a ZBIT for your unbalanced amplifier is usually worth the trouble and expense.

Steve

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by RW82 on 08/22/16 at 05:58:41

Steve, I am using a system that sounds its best when used in a balanced configuration. It is very neutral but absolutely brutal to mediocre and poor recordings. I keep a ZStage in my audio chain for a splash of warmth.

I would like to use my system in a balanced configuration, but I don't want to lose that ever so important 'second harmonic.' Does the ZTPRE warm things up a little like the ZStage, or is it voiced for a more neutral presentation?

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by VallyOrent on 10/13/16 at 17:22:05

Hi..i am a new user here. As per my knowledge the preamp is going to be a balanced circuit using two CSP3 circuits, one for the push and one for the pull. So that's 3 dual triode tubes per channel. This way the signature of the preamp maintains the tried and true sonic merits of a CSP3. Think of it as a CSP3 on steroids.There will likely be an option for wireless remote control of the volume.

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Lon on 10/29/17 at 20:52:12

Steve says a few posts above, "If however you have balanced sources with unbalanced amps, then the sonic benefit of using the ZTPRE in conjunction with a ZBIT for your unbalanced amplifier is usually worth the trouble and expense."

It's not an inconsiderable expense, but in my case yes, it was really worth it! The ZTPRE is THE preamp for me.

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Lon on 10/31/17 at 00:40:48

Steve, do you think this thread would be better placed in the ZTPRE forum?

Title: Re: NEW Decware ZTPRE Preamp
Post by Steve Deckert on 10/31/17 at 19:20:44

Indeed, thank-you... consider it moved!