Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl OLDER DECWARE GEAR SUPPORT >> TORII MK III >> Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1262375296 Message started by Lon on 01/01/10 at 19:48:15

Title: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/01/10 at 19:48:15 Well, there's no Mark III forum, so I'll post this here. Shortly after I received Bob's old original Torii II amp sort of updated to specs (the rectifier circuit is a little different I think) Steve introduced the Mark III. I couldn't stop thinking about it.  So I ordered one while the introductory price is still in place. Whoa.  I really shouldn't, but I could always sell the Integrated that I'm using in the second system, etc. Now begins the waiting! Happy New Year!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by BLFST on 01/01/10 at 20:46:22 Congradulation Lon!  Will be interested in hearing your impressions of the MKIII over the MKII.   Have a great new year. bill

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/01/10 at 22:22:05 Thanks Bill.  You know me, I'll be talking about it. ;)

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Doorman on 01/01/10 at 22:22:52 Lon: You've got it BAD!! :) Happy '10 Don

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Rivieraranch on 01/02/10 at 01:09:15 Congratulations, Lon. The MKIII is really a big Mini Torii in some respects.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/02/10 at 13:57:52 Thanks RR.  I really am not interested in the mini-Torii, as I'm in love with EL34 type tubes, and I used to drive myself insane tube-rolling and don't want to be tempted to go down that route again. I love the Mark II so much, it really embodies what I want in an amplifier, and I want to go for the Mark III as I think the improvements will be audible and meaningful, and then I'll stop. :) (Might have to not visit this site to do that, and I'm tempted!)

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by DPC on 01/02/10 at 14:00:45 First off, Congratulations!  Insane, I think not.  If there is one among us who enjoys his music system it's you. [smiley=69.gif]

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/02/10 at 16:14:21 Well, you're right. . . I do enjoy mine.  Both of mine actually, which are predominantly Decware.  And both are used for video playback as well (and both are wonderful, especially with the excellent audio output of Blu-Ray audio).  It's a bit insane because for months I've been telling myself to spend less, and not really listening to that sound advice from a reliable source.  Money keeps going out and I'm not working and bringing lots in.  But then again, I'm at the end zone of a period of time when I have been able to build a great audio system or two and collect some great guitars and basses and amplifiers for those, and this period will flavor favoribly my coming years.  I've also been so blessed to have the time to really sit down and enjoy my systems and my instruments, and to have found a mate who is also a severe music addict. This will probably be my final big purchase for a while, and it's undeniably a sane choice.  I could have waited for the Decware DAC options, but frankly I'm very happy with my Sony source, that's one sweet under-priced machine, and I imagine I will be until I am back in the rat race bringing in money that I can splurge with again. Happy new year!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 01/03/10 at 16:20:46 Hey Lon and all, Happy new year! I am really enjoying the Mk2 that I purchased recently and I look forward to Lon's comparison of the Mk2 and Mk3's. Out of curiosity, has your Mk2 had the CCE modification? nsj

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/03/10 at 16:36:41 Yes, it has N. I'll definitely let you know of comparisons.  Now begins the long wait! :)

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 01/03/10 at 16:49:35 I know what you mean Lon, about waiting. I ordered my ERR's on December 5, so hopefully I will see them in the next 2 weeks or so... I have been completely blown away by my Mk2, even with a crappy Onkyo CD, 20 year old Infinity bookshelf speakers and 24GA speaker wire! It's as if I am hearing my CD collection for the first time, again. The only issue that I have had is that the input tube on the left/front does not glow as brightly as the one on the right/front. I am not sure if this is affecting the sound or not? Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/03/10 at 17:31:46 Hey Neil, IF the sound seems unbalanced from channel to channel, then it may be a factor of course. If not (and if mono recordings sound pretty centered) it may mean nothing at all, it's nothing to worry about.  I've encountered that before, sometimes it's just the angle you're viewing them from, sometimes it's just the tubes themselves, but if Steve sent them to you he tested them, matched them closely enough, and you should have nothing to worry about. Hope you get the ERRs soon. Bob told me that mine are closer to coming up in the cue too.  I recently put my RL2s into my bedroom system and Anadina and I are really enjoying those there, they sound great in that little room, much better than in the slightly larger bedroom I used to use as a listening room!  Or maybe it's because they're being driven by the Integrated, not my Monoblocks as before. Who knows!  I just enjoy!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 01/03/10 at 19:32:49 Lon, No sound degradation to my ears, in fact, it sounds wonderful! I believe that you ordered your ERR's before I did, so I will be anxious to hear what you think of them... I have emailed Steve a couple of times with this question, but, I have not heard back from him, perhaps you know the answer: Does the new ZCD200i accommodate any and all Ipods? I have a Nano, and Patty has an older version. I just want to be sure. Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/03/10 at 20:32:03 Hey Neil, I did order mine before you, but Bob has made pairs before mine with my agreement, so mine is coming up soon but I bet yours is in front of mine. I don't know much about that TEAC player, but this page says it works with all iPod models: http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/08/tascam_cd-200i_cd_player.html

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 01/03/10 at 20:57:06 Lon, Thanks for that - that's good news on the ZCD! I will have to wait on the purchase for now, but, it sounds like just the ticket when my cash reserves are replenished. Patty and I had a miserable Christmas with our beloved 13 year old german shepherd being diagnosed with kidney failure on Christmas eve. After 4 days in an emergency vet hospital and $4K later, we had to put her to sleep. The Torii Mk2 was the only positive aspect of the entire holiday period. That's an interesting arrangement that you have with Bob! Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by BLFST on 01/03/10 at 22:16:06 nsj - not to distract from the forum topic, but just wanted to let you know how sorry I am to hear about your german shepard.  I had to put down my 14 year old siberian husky two years ago after she suffered a seizure.  Came on suddenly and took its toll on her quickly.  Now I have two siberians I got out of a siberian rescue center and they lay at my feet every nite while I listen to my Torri MK II. bill

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 01/03/10 at 22:26:00 Sorry to hear about your Shepherd. I know how pets can get deep into your heart and mind.  I lost a cat of 18 years a year and a half ago, I'm just glad I had her the previous 8 months, the period after my wife died. She went quickly, and without too much misery that I could tell, her kidneys just failed her.  She was a graceful old lady and a wonderful friend. People are wonderful, but other mammals can win our hearts too.  And they don't pollute! :)

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 01/03/10 at 23:16:38 Bill & Lon, Many thanks for your thoughts. I am going to surprise Patty with a shepherd puppy soon; I just can't live without one. They really do get into your heart as you both say. Sorry to hijack the thread! Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/04/10 at 23:20:06 Really really really enjoying my Mk. II, so much.  I've got a real hunch that the Mk. III will be even better!  I think Steve is really at the top of his game! Hopefully before too long I'll have a Mk. III in the living room and a Mk. II in the bedroom, at least for a while. Wow!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by mike_gagne on 02/05/10 at 06:52:46 I am loving my MkII!!!!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/25/10 at 23:32:32 My Mark III ships tomorrow.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by DirtDawg on 02/25/10 at 23:45:27 Very nice, Lon! I would say congrats, but that seems so small by comparison. I hope your new amp is all that you expect and more. I am very pleased with my recent purchase (used - it came yesterday) of an original style ZenC. Life is good.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/25/10 at 23:47:38 Thanks DD! I bet that the III will be great; I love my now well-seasoned II.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 02/26/10 at 23:44:21 Hey Lon, Awesome! We can't wait to hear your comparison review. I have been very busy with our new family member, ilsa:

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/26/10 at 23:48:27 Congrats Neil!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 02/27/10 at 00:03:09 There, I finally got the image to load. She's a handful!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/27/10 at 01:01:19 Sure looks like a beauty.  I had two Shepherds when I lived in Swazliland, but we had lots of space compared to any other home/plot I've lived in. My old tom cat  Mr. P C (short for Mr. Porch Cat) just took a look at Lisa and told me not to get any ideas.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by BLFST on 02/27/10 at 01:24:36 Congradulations on the new family addition NSJ, she looks great!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Rivieraranch on 02/27/10 at 01:40:11 Here's mine

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by DirtDawg on 02/27/10 at 02:09:11 What a beauty! I love dogs. Just yesterday I signed up for a new program at work - volunteer work at the local Humane Society. Our company (Best Buy) awards any "non-profit organization"  a thousand bucks for each employee who donates forty total hours of service. They have loads of BS things they want us to sign up for, but the Humane Society seemed to fit me just fine.  I will be scooping "treasure," mopping and hosing everything in sight, painting everything that is not barking, meowing or chirping and building new cages next week, along with walking the inmates in an outside area. My daughter will accompany me as well. I will reach forty hours before the month is out and BB will donate to them, generously. There are five others who have also agreed to volunteer and each one who reaches forty hours of service will earn a thousand more dollars worth of donations to the charitable organization  from our company. The point is that the company wants to make everyone look to them for what they sell, but they do give up the money as we donate our own time to our respective communities. I suppose there is some self serving capitalism to this arrangement, but I get to handle beautiful, neglected and forgotten animals, make things better for the next ones who are rescued and my company has to pay for the privilege of claiming responsibility for my community service. I find the upsides far better than any downsides I can imagine.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 02/27/10 at 16:24:29 Hey guys, Thanks, we are very pleased with her. Let's face it cats (Mr. PC) are a lot easier to take care of. I had a Maine Coon cat at one point. BLFST, I hope that your Huskies are doing well. What kind of a dog is that Riviera? Dirtdawg, I admire your dedication - that's great!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Rivieraranch on 02/27/10 at 18:05:09 Desi is a 7 year-old piebald Daschund. The piebald has recessive features such as a slimmer muzzle, longer and thinner legs and of course the coloring. She is a sweet canine doggie.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by DirtDawg on 02/27/10 at 20:58:02 Lets talk about pets in Lon's latest thread, shall we? Sorry, Lon, but this "stream of consciousness stuff"  affects us all. I am very interested in your interpretation of what pleasures your new baby sets into your system. (honestly, I have some trouble resolving what I have heard from the blu-ray players I have tried. My older Sony things sound way better than any newish stuff I have brought home. I have never heard yours, though. Enough said on that.) Back on topic, I want a puppy. [smiley=biglol.gif]

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/27/10 at 23:18:09 I'm listening to some incredible sound from my Sony ES Blu-Ray player right now on a Steven Wilson DVD-A, Insurgentes.  I have tried out two other Blu-Ray players in this system (another Sony and a Panasonic) and this former flagship is just awesome.  Not as good on redbook as my SCD-XA5400ES player, but incredible on dvd and Blu-Ray two channel audio.  Just amazes me. Believe me DD, I'll give my impressions of the new amps.  And I don't mind people talking about their pets. As my late wife Helen would say "Pets are people too!"

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by DirtDawg on 02/28/10 at 01:37:51 I love that sentiment, Lon. Pets are indeed people, too. Which Panasonic did you try out?   I bought (it seemed the best one in the showroom at the time) BD-S1065BL Yamaha, then decided to keep it for my movie system. I have previewed a Pioneer BDP-V6000, a Pioneer BDP-95FD, Pioneer BDP-320, Pioneer BDP-23FD (I thought for a while that Pioneer was close to the best brand, I was stuck on this brand. I bought several things from them but that big fat-bottom, heavy-assed Yamaha blows them all away). I also tried out a Denon A1UDCI (which was amazingly feature-loaded, our most expensive player, but hardly any better than any other, soundwise) and a Denon DVD-3800BDCI (probably second best sounding at twice the price). I do not have access to any of the better than average Sony efforts at my store, so I can hardly comment on their more modern players, as yet, but of those I do have available to me, the Yamaha is much more analog sounding, compared to the others. I still have an older Sony redbook player from teh eighties that sounds better than all of them on just about all my average discs (the point). This annoys the hell out of me about digi! (I fully expect it to break some day and I will again return to the market to replace something "I never wanted in the first place" - Lol) My oldest and most primitive player works best. [smiley=ahhhhhhh.GIF]

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 02/28/10 at 02:04:15 I had to ask my friend David what the model was, he says Panasonic DMP-BD55.  It sounded okay but we both felt there was more depth to the sound of the Sony BDP-S2000ES.   The DEC 685 was the first Sony disc player I ever had and it impressed me. I decided to try Sony for a Blu-Ray player and went with the BDP-S2000ES after doing some instore comparisons with Sony, Pioneer and Panasonic. Sonys impressed me more and ofdered the then flagship. I've been nothing but happy with it. When I was disappointed in the ZCD and the NAD universal player I bought didn't really excite me on redbook I tried the Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player and that has been the best cd and SACD source I've ever had.  Has an interesting design, capacitorless outpout, nice layout and transport.  It keeps sounding better and better month by month. So my Sony excitement is fairly recent, but I'm very impressed.  Bad sound and experience by a friend with Yamaha players and receivers has had me sidestep those. There are lots of good options out there, it's a great world we live in.  I'm really happy with these choices.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/04/10 at 12:23:04 My Mark III arrived yesterday, surprisingly early, before 1 p.m. Right out of the box I must say that this amp sounded more "there" than any other new Decware amp I've received.  Maybe it had more hours on it before shipping, maybe it's the design.  But wow, it impresses immediately. I then transferred all the tubes I could from my Mark II to my Mark III so that I was listening to seasoned tubes for the most part.  I continued to be impressed.  There does seem to be a bit more power and authority to this amp than the Mark II. The IT Radials LOVE this amp.  I managed to get about seven hours of use in last night and am starting on some long listening hours today, hopefully. Steve's work and immense attention pay off. There seems to be even better bass, this early on too, than with the Mark II.  It seems to be the determining difference here, though there's also a bit more depth and a bit bigger sound altogether, which would follow from a fuller bass sound. Yet what I loved so much about the Mark II is also there:  how it handles every detail, large or small, putting the sound right where it should be, just as it should be.  I know that this amp will just get better and better as it seasons.  Steve's brainwork and his intuitive approach to improving his designs are very apparent in all the models of the Torii. This edition is stunning in sound and looks. A winner! I can't imagine any fan of the Decware amps who would be disappointed.  No, this is not a single-ended triode amp.  But it sure as hell sounds like one down to the bone! Very happy that I managed to swing this.  The Mark II sounds fantastic in my bedroom system. Life is good! More impressions soon.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Rivieraranch on 03/05/10 at 00:42:21 "Say that cat Lon is a baaaad mutha- Shut yo mouth! Talkin' bout Lon And we can dig it!" With apologies to the late Isaac Hayes.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by BLFST on 03/05/10 at 01:19:33 Congradulations on receipt of your MKIII Lon!  Even though you give it a resounding thumbs up this early, I am afraid that I am just going to have to be content with the MKII that I currently have.  Not enough funds for everything that I would like to enjoy LOL. bill

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/05/10 at 03:54:11 Yes I so feel like a bad mofo with this amp and these speakers. I get such great sound. And Bill, I totally understand.  I really shouldn't have spent the money. But I just got the idea in my head and there is money in the bank still, just barely.  The idea of having a Mark III in the living room and the Mark II in the bedroom just took hold of me. .. and now it's a reality.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/05/10 at 22:14:06 Another day of great sound.  A bit of a change mid-day, the sound was sort of soft and easy, and then came back to a tighter focus later. I'm really grateful for the bias switch. This is the first amp I've had where the "neutral" or "British" bias position was a useful alternative.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 03/06/10 at 20:40:28 Hey Lon, So far I use the "British" bias on my MkIII. Plenty of warmth, speed and push. Mine took a good 7-9 days of 5 hour cycling to "bloom." But the bias thing...I much preferred the "warm" bias on the Integrated I had, but the MkIII pushes my MG944's pretty hard, and has to me, considerably more low mid and bass to its sound, so generally the warm bias is too much. I like the power and many of the characteristics of the Torii sound, but, at least with my speakers and setup, I think I would prefer a just slightly less slam/push, low mids and bass. It is soooo fast and powerful it can sometimes seem just a little "amplified" sounding, though I probably have less than 70 hours on it. When there is a lot of bass material on the recording, I find the lows, though tight and clean at this point, they can mask the mids a bit too much for my taste. It can also get a little unnerving to have the low bass sending vibes through room and body on such a regular basis! This thing must go most of the way down, and the 944's apparently use a lot of the -30 Hz stuff with this amp. I am hyper sensitive though because at first I was having a nasty thing going on with big bass stuff, and messing around to solve it I got cotton ear! Then, when I started looking at the speakers themselves, I was hearing the low mid/bass muddle with my ear right at the drivers!  So I damped the plastic driver ring with some marigo dots and this helped. Then it occurred to me that the speakers were made in the humid NC mountains, and I live in the high desert, so checked out the driver screws....duh! all but one on the mid/bass drivers needed about a 1/5 turn to make them snug. This did a whole lot to solve my problems!!! but for a balance across my CD collection, I still would prefer just a bit less low end in the mix and am now playing a lot with tubes. I don't seem to have any obvious room resonances, comb filtering or the like, no boom or buzz, no particularly hot or cool bass areas...the frequency response sounds pretty even in most parts of the room. So though I have a less than perfect room, and would likely benefit from more treatment I would prefer not having to go there! Also, I am inclined to think this is a lot to do with the amp's signature and my personal taste. This is also obviously to do with synergy of gear, tubes, etc. my better CD player (Rega Apollo) reveals everything more than my modded Oppo, and Decware IC's likewise present everything more than less revealing IC's. And my favorite input tubes are the same. I was using 70's cryo'd 6N23P's from cryoset, as they are incredibly detailed bottom to top. Amazingly tight bass and high extension. So all this can be toned down with less revealing gear/tubes, but the sacrifice! I have tried OB3 and OD3's for the voltage regulators, but in the end, though the bass is a bit stronger with the stock OA3, so is everything else, and I prefer how those regulators push the tubes. The stock 5U4G's I love for their sweet, open midrange, and the bottom goes way down, but can be a little inarticulate, so I tried cryo'd  JJ 5AR4's. They tightened the whole sound...but I lost a bit of that sweet midrange. So now I have Valvo 274B's that are sort of in between, tighter on the bass and mids, but still having a decent liquidity. And I put in some NOS Haltron ECC88's in the input stage...This combination works pretty well, the Haltron 6692's sounding quite good but a little softer/less edgy than the 6N23P's. Ah the quest! What I would love, is to get this thing toned down just enough to where on thinner recordings I could use the warm bias setting...and on most, use the British bias with liquid detail and tight, balanced low mid/bass (not even bordering on unnerving or fatiguing). I am close, but not there. I have some Styx ordered, and they presumably will help over my Cat-5 home-mades. Long story short....what tubes are you liking? I seem to recall from your posts your using 6N2P's in your MkII and that you thought the tungsol El34's (are they 34B's) were pretty comparable to the stock Winged C EL34's with perhaps a bit less low-mids??? This could work for me at this point. Any thoughts? Best to you, Will

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/06/10 at 21:06:50 Hi Will I seem to have a different room situation.  My room has sucked the bass and lower midrange out of any amp I have used:  Select, Integrated, SE84, B&O, Proton, EICO.  I was using N2Ps in the Mark II because these gave a mid and low bass boost, but it was giving me a situation similar to yours that was lush and dark and not sparkling.  If I went for the sparkle it was too bright and thin.  I went back to 6N1Ps, the same that Steve supplies, but cryo'd, and found the right speaker placement to get a good tonal balance.  I also used Winged Cs primarily; the Tungsols were just a bit too slow and dark sounding overall, dimming the sparkle a bit too much.  I used new reissue Mullards that were cryo'd to great result in the Integrated, but I haven't yet  bought a matched quad for the Toriis. That may be just the ticket, hard to say. So right now I'm using in the Mark III: cryo'd 6N1Ps, Winged Cs, the stock rectifiers with the exception of  a pair of RCA 5U4Gs (clearly better than the Ruby, mellower, warmer). And I'm surprised that I'm using the British bias setting. There is something distinctly and decidedly different I think on the bass with the Mark III, possibly deeper and quicker, seemingly to me fuller. I think this is either a result of the design changes or a further improvement. I like it, but ymmv as I felt bass needed fleshing out in my system. I'll be interested to hear the amp once it's broken in and seasoned. . . .

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 03/06/10 at 21:59:56 Lon, This is good information. Thanks. It gives me more ways to think about it. Could be my room is more a problem than I thought, and the Integrated just didn't have enough bass to show it. Also, I suspect the radials might respond differently to the MkIII than the MG's. Hmmm.....Maybe I should try switching  back to the 6N1P's for a while. I think I recall that they were nice and warm,  and that the softer presentation extended into the bottom in my setup... pretty deep, but maybe a little mushy. Do you recall what differences you heard between the cryos and the stock ones? Have fun with the break in! Will

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/06/10 at 22:17:46 Well, I felt that the Mark II and the IT Radials were an excellent fit, but there's something even more fitting to the match between the Mark III and the IT Radials. It's really going to be interesting to arrive at the post "break in" sound! If you want to try different tubes, the Mullards may be very interesting in comparison to the Winged Cs.  They were a better replacement in the Integrated than the TungSols.  Eventually I'll try them in the Mark III but I may have to get a job first!  :) Thanks for sharing your impressions.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 03/06/10 at 22:26:05 Lon, Wow, we are texting here. I edited my first response adding a question about 6N1P's and came back to find you had gotten back.  I am inclined to check out the cryo'd  mullards repos. How do recall them sounding in comparison with the Winged C's? Thanks Lon, Will

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/06/10 at 23:36:55 As regards the 6N1Ps, I've had about four pairs that I've used for the last few years and really don't remember the differences between cryo'd and non-cryo'd. I recall that the Mullard tubes took quite some time to "bloom" but when they did, they were a bit more romantic than the Winged Cs, a touch more warmth. (Karl had a similar positive experience in his Dynaco I believe.)  This was using the Mullards in the Integrated, which as you know may not translate to the same thing in the Torii.  I remember in one of my first experiences in tube-rolling that I had a set of Military Sovtek EL84s that clearly sounded better than the non-military version in my EICO push-pull integrated amp.  The very opposite was true in my SE84! I think you will really enjoy the Styx when they break in. I can't really think of using another speaker cable now. They alone may get you just the sound you want, they tighten up and tidy up all the frequencies. I have to shut down the stereo soon and get ready for a good friend's birthday dinner. For a number or reasons, including how much fun I'm having listening to an Andy Bey cd right now, I don't want to go!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 03/07/10 at 07:14:25 I tried the 6N1P's for while this evening and like them, but find them just a little soft after getting used to the cryo'd 6N23P-EV's (extremely articulate, extended and detailed) and my current favorite, the Haltron 6922's that seem somewhere between...warm but articulate with a tight, but musical bass. It would be hard to beat the Winged C's, but the Mullards sound worth checking out. So far, though the Integrated and MkIII sound different, they carry so much of the family resemblance and design/build, I have found tubes to move between them pretty well. But it does all come down to the details the amp's signature brings out and there will be no way to know about the Mullards without a try. It is tube changes in part, but my amp just reached another level. Smoother and more liquid!!! What a pleasure. I really do look forward to the Styx! Waiting for more cable to come in. Thanks for your thoughts.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/07/10 at 17:22:51 I guess I like "a little soft" because for me and my system the 6N1Ps are just right so far! I drove myself mad tube-rolling some years ago and I'm less and less inclined to roll tubes.  The final straw for me was when I tried multiple tubes in the ZCD trying to love that player and no tube accomplished that.  Then I bought my Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player, not a tube in sight, and I love it!  I'm learning with the amps to not stray too far from Steve's original tube sets. . . they work pretty well with the Radial speaker series which is my bread and butter. . . .

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 03/08/10 at 01:56:29 Good points Lon. There is the taste thing, and our different physical makeups, but I suspect my problems are mainly room/system synergy and not the amp. When I think of the complexity of what makes up a room/system it makes me feel a little sick though. So I hear you on the dilemma of to tube roll or not. Veering too far from the tubes Steve used for development could be somewhat futile. It is fun though. And I did not have any problems with the Integrated except that I wanted a little more power. But then that is the very thing that I'm dealing with now...on top of the additional bass extension from the Torii, the power and how it drives the MG944's is clearly part of it. Everything is just that much closer to the edge. At the same time, power, speed and extension are big parts of what makes the amp sound so good! If only Steve had devised a little bass cut pot like the treble pots, my tastes would likely be satisfied. His meticulous design and development work, and good ears open the door to that truly satisfying sound, and those of us who love his sound trust that he will put us way close, making struggling with the last few percent worth it. Why else would you have put so much energy into the ZCD tweaking? I really hope this amp is not for me like the ZCD was for you, but it is possible dammit. Thanks for your thoughts. They are definitely helpful! And....like you suggested, the Styx may just do it. I need to talk with Steve about those 26 things... By the way, on tube roll #1042, I just put in the 6N1P's with a set of cryo'd Sovtek GZ34 Mullard copies and it sounds pretty amazing! I am blown away at how powerfully the rectifiers effect the sound of this amp!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/08/10 at 02:27:38 I think in these amps with such direct and "simple" circuitry the rectifiers play a big role and so changes are significant.  This has been the case for me in all the amps I've had and have from Steve. With the Mark III there are THREE rectifiers to roll!  OMG, I think I'll just leave it as it is for now! :) I think that's a good idea, talking to Steve  He may steer you to a good and simple room treatment, or he may even be able to adjust the signature of the Mark III to get a more appropriate bass response for you.  But wait for the Styx to get in the system. . . they're gong to show you really where you're at! It's been fun sharing experiences and thoughts.  I have the DVR running through the Mark III right now.  I've had so much fun with this system, makes even blah TV sound GREAT.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 03/09/10 at 18:37:57 THREE rectifiers huh!!! Do tell. I think your are right about the simple and clean signal path thing, but man, for me anyway, the MkIII brings out the tube differences more than the Integrated did. This amp is amazing. And yes, I look forward to the Styx and the assurance that I am getting accurate connection with the speakers. On the room... I found a really good CD for identifying low resonance stuff. Rosa Passos and Ron Carter "Entre Amigos." Demanding Bass tracks, within a very simple matrix of beautiful midrange stuff. I have been messing around with this the whole time, but as I learn more, I am becoming less tolerant of ANY resonance I hear, and this has been having enough positive effect on my low-mid/bass problem to realize that with this amp, in this room, pretty much all the bass resonance has to go....Being all over the room many times, and by solving the broader low end crud, the remaining (and worst) resonance has become really obvious. So, I am much closer and your saying that your room was a bass sucker, and mine having exaggerated bass with the same amp, this was the big pointer. I was suspicious of the MG944's being sensitive to the deep bass the MkIII produces since my problems were exaggerated by them before I realized the drivers were slightly loose, and also because damping of the driver rings and box did help. After sorting this out, it didn't seem possible that the difference between the MG's and the IT Radials could cause a huge difference in bass response. Also, since the MG's and the MkIII do go low, it is not a surprise that together they bring out room issues that the Integrated and MG's didn't. Finally, from your pointer, today I have been doing this pretty intense detective work with the stock tubes. So thanks for the dialog Lon. I'll try Steve today.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/09/10 at 19:33:02 Seems as if your thinking is sound! :)

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/09/10 at 22:16:28 This really is a fabulous amplifier.  It's more different than I thought it would be than my Mark II right now.  Sound is very very nice.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by DPC on 03/09/10 at 22:47:42 Although Mr. Deckert may advise me to remain home for the next Decfest, I have not been putting a lot on time on the new amp.  My second system located in the bedroom/office includes a set of RL3's and a  small Jolida PP amp. with a Cayin tubed DAC.  I find it hard to escape the Radial sound.  Have not had a CD in my hands for months. I did avail myself of the Decware power cord and audiophile grade duplex.  The main system includes nearly everything Decware. I find the new Torii Mk III to be all the amplifier that will ever be needed in the living room.  It works so well with so many different speakers. I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to swing it. Dennis

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/10/10 at 17:21:24 I know about being addicted to the Radial sound.  I have two Radial based systems now. . . one in the living-room/dining-room and one in the bedroom.  It's a total gas to have Radials everywhere I listen. Although you sound as if you're happy with the Jolida, I would be really remiss if I didn't recommend something like the Integrated for that system.  I'm a little biased, I haven't really heard Jolida amps that I like, and I love the Integrated/RL2 combo, really great, especially for a bedroom or office. . . .

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/11/10 at 16:34:43 Playing Symphony #9 on this set, which is the most dynamic set of recordings I have.  Playing the SACD too loudly too, in a way. But it's clear as a bell and whispers and roars.  The Mark III / IT Radial combo is really performing flawlessly.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/16/10 at 23:50:03 Wow. This amplifier is really PLEASING.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/25/10 at 19:23:21 The system astounded me this afternoon.  I removed the protective grilles from the top of the IT Radials, and I put on the DVD audio version of Opeth's "Ghost Reveries." Holy #$%!  Room full of sound as I've never heard before. The Torii made it all pump and whirl and sing.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by ZYGI on 03/26/10 at 02:57:35 Great news Lon.....how much better is the bass control of the MK-III than the MK-II....Steve was pretty stoked about the voice coil cathode bias, and I won't be able to hear it before Decfest  >:( ZYGI

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/26/10 at 12:09:39 Hey Bob, I'm enjoying the sound with that top grille off, at least for now.  More "Radial" like. As for the bass. . . well everything is a little different with the Mark III tonal wise. There are now four distinct signatures, because the ITs seem to fall more comfortably in the middle between the two positions on the speaker ohm switch, and there's the bias switch for the tubes as well.   I still sometimes want a richer or a more delineated bass, but it's neither the fault of the amp nor the speakers, but the room.  I'm just not ready to address room treatment.  Maybe in the next house if there is one; this one is just too small, I need all the wall space for books and cds etc. There is a fundamental difference between the two amps. The III seems to control the ITs with just a bit more of an iron glove. As a result the sound is slightly more "solid." As a friend of mine noted, with the grilles on there is a more defined two-channel presentation (that changes when the grille is off).  And a very balanced tonal palette top to bottom. There's real punch in several of the "signatures" too:  rock drums if recorded well can really drive, I notice on a lot of jazz recordings more body to the drum sound as well as more precise locations of the different elements of the kit. There's a bit more life in the sound. The differences between the two amps are not great, and may even be subtle. I'd say that unless one listens to a lot of jazz, classical or folk music the II is the cat's meow.  For electric and electronic music (blues, rock, hip-hop, pop, etc.) the II delivers AND HOW.  The III has just a bit more refinement for those recordings that are minimally produced or done with instrumental tone purity and accuracy. And the III may reveal just a tiny bit more dynamic shadings.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by ZYGI on 03/30/10 at 12:17:16 Lon,   I notice some differences with the grill off,  not as much as you are hearing, but that could be my room is a bit on the dark side.  Your pair has the metal grills, and that might make a difference. I didn't switch to cloth on the newer pairs for any other reason, other than cloth was easier to work with, and I thought it might keep someones wife from trying to use the top of the speaker as a plant stand....  After talking to Steve about the MK-III and now what you are saying from your experiences with yours, it makes me really want to hear one in my own room. Other than the extra power, I don't think  my blue Torri can be beat. Only time will tell.... ZYGI

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 03/30/10 at 22:46:49 Well, come on over and listen to the amp in my room! :)  I would be willing to bet that every amp that says Torii on it stands proud and beams, because the soul and spirit of these amps are strong and confident. This morning my Mark II blew me away playing some Ravel and Debussey.  And ten minutes ago the Mark III just rolled me over listening to some Porcupine Tree (Signify, in fact). And your big blue Torii, man he's like Hercules from the mists of the historical age, performing his many labors, losing and gaining friends along the way.  That amp is an institution! It's shaken the hand and kicked the ass of more fantastic speakers than nearly any other amp in the world. ;) I'm enjoying the grille off Bob, I think my room just loves to be excited by the radial driver, there's a good bit of space to fill there.  I get a sort of wall of sound with a big back yard, tall and deep. There's more info when the grilles are off, and the ITs are really filling the room, performing both the traditional two channel directionality and the holographic swirl and depth. My friend Shawn has heard almost all my Decware systems in sequence and he just loves the IT Radials, he says it's the best that I've had and among the best he's heard.  That's no small noise either as he's a digital engineer and a computer audio person. Even watching tv just barely worth watching, I can always find something in the audio to appreciate and even marvel at on occasion. So I would bet big money that you'll love the Mark III with these speakers (and likely many others).

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/05/10 at 21:06:28 Today I'm realizing how this amp brings out the best of the system.  The Sony sounds fantastic, the IT Radials are right now swinging their asses off pumping out some of the Jazz Crusaders from the Mosaic set. The PRAT is right on and the sound is so strong and sure and quick.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 04/05/10 at 22:00:32 Lon, Any news on the ERR's? I don't see your name on the list yet... Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/05/10 at 23:38:01 Hi Neil, No, no news on ERRs for me.  I don't think I will show up on the list as my purchase was not on a strict timetable, or meant to be put in front of other sales.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/11/10 at 14:34:38 The Torii Mark III continues to amaze me. It amazes me how much this sounds like the Decware SET amps and yet has so much power reserve and so much body and depth.  And it just sounds so good, powering the Radials into performances none of the smaller amps had. This is in my opinion so far the best amp I've ever gotten to know. I am so happy to have this driving my system.  Bring on the Zen DAC-1. ;)

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by mike_gagne on 04/11/10 at 21:54:11 Lon, I am amazed that you are going to be getting music from a digital source on line. Its the future and coming so fast as to be already the present. As bandwidth availability increase the sources should begin to head toward 192kbps and beyond territory where quality improves dramatically. There are some college stations broadcasting in 320kbps realm. Not always with music you may want to hear but with a high quality feed. Also you can subscibe to a few that are high enough to be very listenable. I am wanting the dac too.      mike

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/11/10 at 23:38:33 Mike I am not at all interested in getting music online. I have more cds than I ever need to have, but I know I'll buy more.  I have so much to listen to. 320 kps sounds okay but it does not sound like Redbook to me. I gave up listening to radio a few decades ago, litereally, don't do radio.   I'm sticking with cd, SACD, etc: discs. I have an eMiusic account and download a few things a month to experiment.  If I burn a cdr from the MP3 and like it and play it more than a few times I buy the cd. I never feel I have "all that it could be" unless I do so.  My Sony SCD-XA5400ES and my ZCD and my NAD universal player and my Sony BCD-S2000ES Blu-Ray all read discs without error, and several will soon feed the Zen DAC-1.  I don't feel I need "exact audio copy" software for my software. I have too many sources already to add online streaming etc.!  Plus . .  . I just don't like to have the computer and music too intertwined. They've been two separate entities to me for a few decades and I want it to stay that way.  I used to perform and record and that is behind me. When I do mix music and computers I somehow have feelings that are similar and it's not a great feeling to be honest. I don't want to reawaken that time or those practices. I was not happy then in my life.  It's going to be redbook and higher resolution for me via discs.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by mike_gagne on 04/13/10 at 08:27:06 Well, Lon, it appears I have missed why you would want a dac then as I would want one for listening to digital sources on line. On Maui we have lost all broadcast sources except ClearChannel (which I find boring and tedious) by the removal of our transmitter from the top of Haleakala Crater so as not to interfere with a radio telescope being built near by. I only own a few hundred vinyl albums from the 70s which is not enough variety. I have also noticed that CDs are disappearing as a source. Borders Music and Books is about to bankrupt and most other music sources have disappeared from island retail centers. I recently visited Amoeba Records in San Fran and it appeared alive and well. Outside of major metro areas there is not much but mp3 (which I also cannot listen to) is thriving. I guess I assumed you were changing your opinion about these sources. So elucidate on dac usage if you would as I would like to understand this item from your perspective. Thank you for your thoughts.......     mike

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/13/10 at 14:54:31 Mike, I've long not been buying many cds in brick and mortar stores, as I tend to want to get items that even when they are stocking lots of cds they don't stock.  Liking the older jazz and Brazilian material, I've been buying these online and mail order for about a decade plus with some supplementing from stores and record conventions.  Since Tower closed here six or seven years ago it's been pretty grim in the stores.  There are still quite a few cds to buy in town (this town is a university town known for tis music and as a result there are more music stores than some other towns, and certainly different than HI seems to be) but not that many that are on my "list."  I still buy lots of cds, mainly from amazon, cduniverse, half. com etc. I want the DAC because I am hoping that it will improve my digital playback on all sources, but especially the TV.  I have pretty good digital playback for discs, but I want to see what Steve's design will produce.  My cable DVR' s analog out is not that great to be honest, it's clearly the weakest source I have, and I think that if I run the digital out into Steve's DAC it will be an improvement.  (I just use two channel, never felt the urge to go surround).  If so then a good percentage of the system's usage will be improved as my girlfriend and I watch quite a bit of TV.  And I suspect as a bonus that my cd and blu-ray playback may be improved a bit, if so that will be great.  This is the final leg of my system upgrading, and I wanted to support Steve's design and product in this arena. I have high hopes, and suspect that they come through.  The only Decware product I ultimately wasn't insanely happy about was the ZCD that I bought and still have. If the ZDAC-1 is as good as I suspect it is, I'm done buying system stuff quite some time, and can sit back and enjoy my system. So I guess I'm getting this DAC to be the cherry on top of a great Decware banana split. While I still have the resources (a narrowing window) I wanted to make my Decware system be all it can be. We'll see, I have high hopes!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by mike_gagne on 04/16/10 at 05:50:43 Lon, thanks for the very lucid explanation. I did not understand or even stop to think that there were indeed other parts to improve in your audio life, I should have. I only listen to music and my sources are computer based-hard drive stored cds, vinyl recorded and stored the same way(still archiving my records), and direct from the internet. I like new music-old stuff is fine- but as I work with machinery and power tools I do not want my mind drafting too much down memory lane. Brazil and West Africa provide a real excitement to me in music and my only access is on line. I recently spent a few hours at Amoeba Records in San Fran with a list which I nearly filled with music I had first heard online through KCRW in Santa Monica. I will be putting my wifes TV (satellite based) through the Torii soon to see if that works at least for movie watching. She likes TV, me not so much. Thank you for explaining and giving me some new thoughts about how to use my new amp/toy. I am sure the dac is in my future also.   Aloha,  mike

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/18/10 at 00:17:54 Mike, yeah as I'm now retired from state government and not yet at work at another job, I guess I can afford to stroll down memory lane. :)  Though I confess most of the older music I listen to I don't have a nostalgic connection to, as I listen to thousands of recordings recorded before I was born or before I became a music listener and collector; I really love thousands of recordings of jazz and blues from 1917 to the early sixties or so, and then enjoy a whole lot of other recordings, but it is this first fifty years or so of jazz that REALLY gets me going. I actually do listen to more new music than in many years, having become intrigued by the work of Steven Wilson in his solo work and with Porcupine Tree, etc. and exploring the work of Opeth and a few other current bands. Very different and interesting.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/24/10 at 15:01:31 The system is sounding exceptional today. After much experimentation I've found that the best sound from the Torii for 90% of material is with both the bias switch and the speaker impedance switch to the rear.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 04/24/10 at 18:26:38 Lon, I tend to agree on my system, though it is a hard call since the back impedance setting has more push and I like the more relaxed feeling from the switch forward. However, for my setup that "push" is really good at bringing clarification throughout the spectrum, and I like that. My tendency at this point with this setting is to use OB3's for the voltage regulator, chilling out the push a touch and opening the sound slightly (though that could change this afternoon!) But I am using cryo'd 6n23P's for the input and they are tighter and more powered up than the 6N1P, accenting this "push". I like the pronounced clarity from them but they can sound a little hard. To compensate for the less warmth, particularly in the bottom, I am currently using cryo'd Sovtek GZ34's for the rectifiers. To me they are too warm with the 6N1P's, but nicely balanced with the 6N23P's, and the combination contributes to a detailed, but friendly sound. It amazes me how powerfully different tubes affect the sound of this amp, and how the interaction from them is a whole story in its self. If it wasn't fun, it could be a nightmare all the choices and their cumulative impact. Will

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/24/10 at 20:12:05 Hey Will, Yes, it really is a close call between the two impedance positions, and each has their plus!  For the video portion of my system the rear is predominantly the best, the choice is not that clear for the cd player.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/24/10 at 20:28:29 And rolling tubes did sort of drive me crazy for a few years especially with the ZCD and the ZBox when both were in the system. So I'm steering clear of that for a while.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 04/25/10 at 02:48:04 I hear you. Though I love most of the 6N1P, I have just never been fully convinced by it, and I can't get around the seductive clarity of the 6N23P's. But then there is the the whole balancing act, which for me also opens what are probably too many options at times. Especially since Steve has great ears and designed the amp with its particular tube set, I see your point completely. I guess I am stuck in tweaker land for now though as I refine my room and system, and one change leads to others, causing me to retry different tubes and tube sets as all gets better. But this is good for now as I am recovering from a fairly intense knee surgery and music and my system are my greatest relief from that. I am having fun!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 04/26/10 at 02:39:34 That said,  I really like all the tubes I have tried in this amp, including the stock set...each having their own merit. So hanging with the base line can't go wrong!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/26/10 at 03:20:32 Well, the 6N1Ps are cryo'd and I'm using RCA 5U4Gs that came in the Mark II that I bought from Bob, they're awesome tubes.  So not entirely stock. I'm getting sound right now I don't want to mess with beyond getting the Decware "source" DAC and seeing what that does. :) I'm more happy with the Mark III than I expected to be. Every day is a listening experience.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 04/28/10 at 19:56:55 I am really glad the Mk III is doing what you love. Ah the beauty of being absorbed by the MUSIC. And yes, those tubes could potentially shift things pretty far from stock. Thanks for the heads up, I misunderstood or misinterpreted.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 04/28/10 at 20:28:22 I'm really enjoying the amp, that's for sure. I have been realizing lately that my system now is what I really envisioned having as a sort of dream system twelve years ago.  I've learned a lot, Decware products have grown a lot, and I have a great system to enjoy the far too many recordings I have. And by the weekend, the ZDAC-1 should be on hand.  That'll be a shot in the arm or something!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 05/01/10 at 01:27:34 Lon, You are at it again with the DAC huh, LOL. I finally heard my Mark II with the CCE mod (or more accurately CCL mod for me) and the Winged "C" EL34's last night. All I can say is WOW! So warm and rich sounding compared to the already excellent KT88's I was using previously. How much of what I am experiencing is mod vs tube? There is a question on the Torii Mk II Forum that you might be able to answer for DaveK. Enjoy the Mk III!  :) Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 05/01/10 at 14:56:42 Neil, I haven't used KT88s in any of my Toriis so it's just a guess, but I'd say maybe 70% of the perceived improvement is due to the mod(?) The important thing is that the sound is knocking you out.  I had a great killer sound going and now the ZDAC-1 is here and it's back to the drawing board!  The ZDAC-1 has a fantastic sound that is now proving to be very different than what I was listening to and I have lots of speaker positioning, treble cut control positioning, etc. to go through!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 05/01/10 at 16:42:23 Lon, The sound is knocking me out. What source are you using with the DAC? How would you describe what the DAC does to the sound??? Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 05/01/10 at 16:55:47 Neil, it's early and I don't want to say too much. I'm using the coaxial outs of my Sony SCD-XA5400ES and my Sony BDP-S2000ES and the optical out of my cable company's Scientific Atlanta DVR as sources. The sound that is most improved is the DVR.  However, oddly the ZCAC-1 has a slightly less voltage output than the analog out of the DVR and I was hoping for a volume boost at the "widest" setting in audio range, and not a slight reduction. The character of the ZDAC-1 is a lot like the ZCD's in many ways, which is not necessarily a great thing for ME who has never warmed up that unit as a source.  But there is definitely more dynamics and a bit more warmth so far with the ZDAC-1. I have to say that it's different than the sound of my Sonys in a more dynamic, leaner fashion. If the ZDAC-1 doesn't change much in the next weeks, I may not say that there's a lot of improvement overall in my system.  We'll see.  I am entering into the ZDAC-1 evaluation period very happy with my sources the months beforehand. I've had to totally relocate my speakers back into the rear of the room in order to come close to the low end sond and feel of the analog outs of the source components. Which is a bit unsettling for a guy who has lived with his speakers well out into the room for some years.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by nsj on 05/01/10 at 17:05:00 Lon, Thanks, very interesting. My next planned purchase is still the ZCDi unless something changes. Keep us posted! Neil

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 05/02/10 at 06:06:28 Lon, In looking at the internal pic of the ZDAC-1 Steve posted https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1269827547/all it looks like there are a number of caps needing seating. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts after a week or so. I have finally found some seriously blissful moments with my MKIII. In order to balance the bass, it took a bunch of tweaks to both the room and to my MG944's. At this point in the solution, probably equal weight to each, and the fine tuning goes on....but there are those extremely satisfying states of absorption in the music as I find synergy with this beautiful amp. Lot's of interesting learning too! My Rega Apollo and Decware IC front end, and how they play with the MKIII and MG's could possibly be a player in the low end weirdness I had to deal with...who knows, but my ZDAC-1 is coming soon, and as with you, I suspect that will set up a whole new balance. I look forward to hearing the front end comparison!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 05/02/10 at 13:07:24 It's incredibly interesting how with the level of transparency available with the Mark III you can sense the effects of even small changes.  A bit unsettling if you obsess over it, but you can really fine tune a system. I agree Will:  that power supply looks as if it will definitely respond with changed sonics due to a burn in period. Yesterday I'd have to say the SCD-XA5400ES won out over the ZDAC.  When I'd compare, toggling back and forth with the ZBox, the Sony just had more warmth and more refined sound, a very integrated and clear sound.  In comparison the ZDAC had a huge sound that lacked the warmth and coherence of the Sony, to a degree.  A fascinating whirlpool of sound though, that was cohering gradually through the day.  I'm very impressed that the ZDAC has the same degree of clear and extended tonal balance that I found so distinctive in this Sony player. In this sense, in my opinion, the ZDAC has already surprassed my seasoned ZCD.  The ZDAC was shut off over night and is doing very well as it warms up with one of my favorite 'test' discs, the most recent US cd release of John Coltrane's 'Crescent.' You have a lot to look forward to, the ZDAC will have you tweaking away. I'm convinced that it's a great machine that will be getting better day by day for a spell. In my opinion the Sony is a powerhouse player that is hard to beat.  I found an interesting review of a modded version here: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue47/sonyscdxa5400es.htm Within the review it mentions: "The 5400 model is a direct coupled voltage design and with no capacitors in the signal path. We all have been told that the sound of a capacitor should be to have no sound. That has been accomplished here by the process of elimination—there are none in the pathway." That signal path seems to give it a distinctive sound that really works well with my tastes and system. The SACD output from this player was the first that really excited me, and the redbook output is still my personal referrence sound, the best I've ever had. (It's build quality and frame design have led to this being an excellent transport as well). Already the ZDAC driven by three sources has shown itself to have a wonderful, detailed, dynamic sound. And it's design is very different than the Sony's analog output stage, with all those capacitors (if I understand correctly; I may be wrong).  This illustrates Steve's discoveries that different pathways lead to sonic success.  Adding the ZDAC to my system has been a win-win.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 05/02/10 at 17:14:36 Sounds like this is turning into an interesting journey...The integration of the MKIII and the DAC-1! Thanks for the update. I do like tweaking, but only for the sake of getting a sound that makes me love the music, fully optimizing my system within the constraints I have. Well, not ONLY for that. I do love to learn through exploration of information and applied experimentation. And admittedly, in this I am easily seduced...each sonic revelation inspires me to look for more refinement. I also wish my current setup required less messing around, but I have an OK toolbox now, and any future needs will be easier to solve. I really look forward to the burned in sound of the ZDAC-1 and how it interacts with the MKIII, not only for the sonic possibilities, but because it will give me a point of reference that Steve has chosen, and through his writing and talks, he has been a big help in my finding the sound I love. Speaking of the DAC,  I am not an electronics guy, but knowing Steve's desire for simple signal paths, I would guess the caps are mostly in the Digital Analog Conversion section as opposed to the output. You think? Hmmm. Part of the sound any way you look at it though and no doubt needing some breakin time.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 05/03/10 at 18:35:32 There's a bunch of them. . . looks like the output stage to me. Either way, it's sounding nice today.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 05/04/10 at 00:30:16 Sounds promising. I look forward to future reports. Do you do the thing Steve recommends for burning in amps....5 hours on and 5 hours off. Seems to be a lot about fully heating and fully cooling the caps to help them seat.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 05/04/10 at 01:42:39 I do a few of those five on five off periods when it's convenient. This unit so far though I've run all day and had switched off all night.  It's only the third day since it arrived, but it's sounding really good.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 05/27/10 at 17:34:15 Well, man, the system is sounding really good. Now that the ZDAC is pretty settled in, I find that my Torii toggle positions are back for the input bias switch, and forward for the speaker ohm switch.  One of my best friends prefers the amp exactly the opposite configuration, and loves the sound of the amp as much as I do.

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by will on 05/27/10 at 18:07:42 Lon, that is interesting. I have been wondering where you were on this after the ZDAC came. With the more laid back Rega, I tended toward the back setting on the speaker impedance switch before too, though it pushed some stuff a little hard for my tastes. I did for the most part tend to leave it in the back position though. The warm and forward aspects of the ZDAC took me off the fence about the ohm switch setting though. I am running it forward about all the time now too, and I mostly keep the bias switch back as you do. But since I toned down my speakers and room, I do like the warm (forward) bias setting for some stuff. It is a trip!

Title: Re: Ordered a Mark III, yes I'm insane Post by Lon on 06/03/10 at 13:31:00 Yes, that forward setting is a trip. I use it occasionally, but now it seems less "accurate" than the other position, and sometimes a bit "hard." I'm amazed by this amp almost every day. It reproduces whatever I toss at it with authority and respect. Just an incredible amplifier.

Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.2.2! YaBB © 2000-2008. All Rights Reserved.